Jihad needs scientists

Ken Smith · Oct 6, 2006

In article <kurtullman-8C3615.09514505102006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

In article <eg3143$okg$2@blue.rahul.net>,
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:
[....]

On (2) we have external evidence that he did try to get OBL. It was all
over the news and the Neocons yelled "wag the dog" about it.

If he did not consistently get interested in OBL about the time
Monica was to testify, etc., he might not have heard that as much.

Do you have any proof of either part of that?

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Ken Smith · Oct 6, 2006

In article <AAfVg.63$45.130@news.uchicago.edu>,
<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote:
[...]

Lobbing missiles in the general direction (with a forewarning to
Pakistan) is not an "attempt to get OBL", just an attempt to show that
"something is being done".

"Hello Pakistan. There is a missle about to come over. It is one of ours
and not from India ....(WOOOOSH)... have a nice day"

It was a lot better than the risk of starting a war between two nations
with nukes. The amount of warning would have only been enough if they had
OBL on speed dial.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Ken Smith · Oct 6, 2006

In article <kurtullman-0481F2.19314905102006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

Managed to put down the
chimney of the Chinese Embassy during Kosovo, too, Rip roaring accuracy.

You are assuming it was an error. Consider that it may have been on
purpose and think back.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

Jim Thompson · Oct 6, 2006

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:21:27 GMT, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

In article <p3dci29iodgrv27559q0ffvqh29bao5me3@4ax.com>,
JoeBloe <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:58:42 GMT, "Homer J Simpson"
nobody@nowhere.com> Gave us:

"JoeBloe" <joebloe@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:fucbi29sjnq3iiboi57rpd4hifvsemhmjc@4ax.com...

Jay Leno: "Which two countries border the United States?"

Girl on the Street: "Ummm, errr, ahhh, Europe and ummm, Paris?"

Yep, that's an American all right. Like those who think Alaska is an
island.

Do you actually think that it was unrehearsed and not intentional,
dumbass?

Obviously it was unrehearsed. Apparently you can't tell the difference
between fact and fiction. Since you clearly can't tell your ass from a hole
in the ground that doesn't surprise anyone.

Idiot! When Leno goes out on the street, it is NOT *DURING* his
show it is prior to it, and the sessions last for hours, and yes
rehearsed bits get filmed, and then the editing department puts
together a little piece for the show. You really can't be that
stupid, can you?

Andit has been going on long enough that most people know it is the
idiots that get the screen time.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Fields · Oct 6, 2006

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:32:17 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Fields wrote:
"Homer J Simpson" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote

They did break US law. There's lots of legal precedence here. If a
Canadian kills a US citizen in Canada, that's a violation of US law.

Don't care. It's a violation of Canadian law and must be punished under that
law.

---
I agree. The crime should be prosecuted in the jurisdiction in
which it's committed.

So are you going to press for a change in US law ?

---
Of course not. Why should I?

You're a 2 faced shit in that case.

---
Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Just as thick as you are a nasty little bitch, huh?

Here's how it works:

A Canadian kills an American in Canada, so he's broken Canadian law
as well as US law.

Since the offense was committed in Canada the Canadian authorities
get first crack at him. The US will file for extradition, and when
Canada gets done with him, if the extradition treaty with the US
allows him to be extradited, then more than likely he will be.

Now, just exactly why should I press for a change in US law when
what we have in place right now works just fine?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Jim Thompson · Oct 6, 2006

On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:20:51 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:

In article <eg3f0u$j7l$8@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
Lloyd Parker <lparker@emory.edu> wrote:
[.....]
Yes, from *OUTSIDE* the country (i.e. foreign intelligence). There
were no domestic calls "tapped", without warrant.

First, we don't know that. Secondly, when did the 4th amendment get repealed
for an American citizen calling, say, France?

They may be ordering some of that yucky French wine instead of the nice
californian stuff. The NSA should not listen in; they should disconnect
the call.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Oct 6, 2006

On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:13:13 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:

In article <45254611.542B0FC1@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:

[...]
Sounds like the sign of the liar to me ;-)

On (2) we have external evidence that he did try to get OBL. It was all
over the news and the Neocons yelled "wag the dog" about it.

The neo-cons are terminally clueless.

No, they aren't. Many of them are quite well educated and on other
subjects can think through problems very well. They are more like a PC
that has a virus installed. The program for thinking about politics is no
longer able to care through logical thought.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Fields · Oct 6, 2006

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:00:08 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Robert Latest wrote:

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:41:27 -0700,
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote
in Msg. <k4a8i29r7fefoc7u4d8ja0k5psaubo2s76@4ax.com

The history of Europe is the history of war. The earliest Greek
writings that survive are tales of war. Europe has been at war for
most of the last 3000 years,

The history of the US is no less war-ridden than that of Europe except
that it is much shorter. This is as unfair a comparison as that between
a single nation (the US) with only two borders and a not very
well-defined conglomerate of dozens of nations and cultures (Europe).

Considering how the USA treated its indigenous ppl, I'm appalled that
mention should even be made of the history of war.

---
If you want to go there, Google "Australian Aboriginals" for a
glimpse at your part in uplifting mankind.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Oct 6, 2006

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:eg58oe$8ss_016@s831.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

Oh, the innumeracy. At the rate that they're doing that, it will take at
least an order of magnitude longer than all of recorded human history to
reach the stated endpoint. In the meantime, how about if we stop giving
them reasons to do so?

If you had your way, everybody would convert to Islam.

No, not even remotely. We would just stop going out of our way to do the
things that we repeatedly do that piss off the rest of the world.

OK. Assume that.

Why should we? That would be your problem, you make too many assumptions
without data, and assumptions combined with fear-mongering lead to some
pretty untenable scenarios. You assume that Bush has all the answers. You
assume that the Democrats will do nothing about the threat of terror. You
assume you know what is in the hearts and minds of a society (Islam) with
which you have no direct experience. You assume because you can interpret
the Koran to say "kill all Infidels" that the goal of Islam is to kill all
Infidels. There are lots of the parts of the Bible that, when interpreted
literally, inspire violence. By your interpretation, since the bible tells
us to cut off the hands of thieves, that Christians and Jews will go around
cutting off the hands of everyone that gets something they don't deserve.
Funny, I don't see huge numbers of people walking around one-handed, and
despite the presence of some Fundamentalist Christians in some pretty high
offices in this land, funnily enough I don't feel in danger of losing my
hand.

The good thing is that the vast majority of people don't interpret religious
texts literally. Yes, there is a fringe that do, and it is a *vanishingly*
small fraction of the population--let's call them "the wackos", for the sake
of brevity. In order for "the wackos" to do any harm, they have to convince
a larger (but still relatively small) fraction of the population that
somebody has done them wrong, and they need to get revenge. Let's call them
"the recruitees", for brevity. That's where we come in, since we repeatedly
given "the wackos" good evidence to present to "the recruitees" that we
*have* done Muslim society wrong, and this gives "the wackos" a fantastic
recruiting tool to increase the ranks of "the recruitees". Invading Iraq
for absolutely no reason is an excellent example. We were not "welcomed
with open arms" as Bush assumed we would be and continued to trumpet to the
population even after it became clear that we *weren't* entirely welcome.
While some fraction of the population may have been happy we invaded, a
large fraction wasn't, especially they began to see how badly we mismanaged
the effort. How can you fail to see that this just served as a recruiting
too for "the wackos" to find more "recruitees" to help them out?

Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't go out of our way to give "the wackos" more
evidence to increase the ranks of "the recruitees"? I'm not saying that we
should give them the keys to city hall. What I'm saying is that maybe we
should stop running around the world like the arrogant jerks that we have
become, trying to shove *our* point of view down everybody else's throats.
You talk about being made to convert to Islam. Yes, that would be a
terrible thing. Don't you think that other societies might just think it is
just as terrible to be forced to adopt *our* way of doing things? You and I
may think that we live in the best society in the world (and I do happen to
believe that, despite my desire to tweak it a little to make it more
world-friendly). But don't you think it is *incredibly* arrogant to assume
it is what is best for everybody else?

Since the factions are already killing each
other, what makes you think that they will stop killing and
murdering and destroying all infrastructure?

It's called a civil war. When we had our little in-house set-to 140 years
ago, what would have made you think that we would stop killing and murdering
and destroying all infrastructure (and Sherman's march was pretty
terrifying, by all accounts)? I doubt if the rest of the world was sitting
there quaking in their boots, worrying about when we were going to go global
with our family dispute.

The goal
is to destroy Western infrastructure.

Data please. It is incredibly arrogant of you to assume you know what their
goal is. If you read the posts of half of the participants in this
discussion and took them literally, then you would have to assume that that
half of the group is all busy sodomizing each other.

This means bridges,
roads, computers, any science results and their applications,
white collar jobs, blue collar jobs, manufacturing plants,
food processing plants, etc. Do I need to think of more to
list?

If you want. But boy, you have bought into Bush's fear mongering so much
that you're now off into fantasy land thinking up things that the Muslims
want to destroy. I thought I had you pegged for someone who looks at data
and evaluates the situation critically. Sorry to say, you appear to have
bought into Bush's rhetoric of fear to such an extent that you no longer
appear to be capable of that.

Eric Lucas

Oct 6, 2006

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:eg5eir$8qk_010@s831.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <4526343A.24C8CC03@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

ISTR that Bin Laden's next goal is to kill 3 million people

Cite ?

I don't have one since I can't access the web.

That's a copout. How about any recollection at all of where you saw it, so
others can try to verify?

Eric Lucas

John Larkin · Oct 6, 2006

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 07:54:44 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

But Democrats ARE dirtbags. Try and deny that ;-)

...Jim Thompson

My wife is a Democrat, and she is not a dirtbag. She just doesn't
understand system dynamics as well as I do.

John

Kurt Ullman · Oct 6, 2006

In article <eg5l1f$sig$1@blue.rahul.net>,
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:

In article <fu8bi2h0pfrimp5kfqphg8g8ner12tb8vg@4ax.com>,
JoeBloe <joebloe@nosuchplace.org> wrote:
[...]
ESPECIALLY in time of war.

No, no .... are we at war! When did this war get declared? I must have
missed the debate in congress and the vote. When was it? What country is
our enemy?

You musta. Congress has passed judgement on the war in general and the
one specific to Iraq many times when funding it, authorizing the
original incursions into both Afghan and Iraq, etc. etc. etc.

Oct 6, 2006

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:eg5el9$8qk_011@s831.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <452634AB.3341D603@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

So much for mess prevention. So how many people does Bin Laden
have to kill before you deal with this problem? 300,000?
3,000,000? 300,000,000? A billion?

What makes you think any of the above are even remotely possible ?

They
were brought in a culture that admires killing; I wasn't.

Again, evidence to justify this assumption? All the Muslims I know are very
much peace-loving people. Certainly much more so than any of the "kill 'em
all" Americans I see on this group.

Eric Lucas

Kurt Ullman · Oct 6, 2006

In article <n3mci2p9ah579tq4d38b7emv85ksafipu1@4ax.com>,
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

What do you think about the Vincennes shooting down an Iranian Airbus then ?

---
From:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/3/newsid_4678000/4678707
.stm

"The USS Vincennes had tracked the plane electronically and warned
it to keep away. When it did not the ship fired two surface-to-air
missiles, at least one of which hit the airliner."

I think the airplane's pilot should have had the good sense to heed
the Vincennes' warning.

It is sorta the height of moral equivalancy to suggest that an
accident that we attempted to avoid by warning the plane is anywhere
near the same as anything else being discussed.

Kurt Ullman · Oct 6, 2006

In article <l6nci2d9qf4t19lf04k4glh5lqof550rvu@4ax.com>,
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 01:24:14 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

"Homer J Simpson" wrote
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote

As noted above, both of those individuals _did_ commit crimes in the
US and, as such, are subject to prosecution under US law.

So when the Ayatollahs send the religious police into the USA to arrest
the
purveyors of porn you'll be fine with seeing thousands of US citizens
dragged off to Iran for death by stoning?

---
This case is different in that the pornographic images aren't
specifically targeted to areas where they're prohibited, they're
merely broadcast over a network. That places the responsibility for
their reception and decoding on the individual downloading the
image.

Who's hosting it ?

---
Where's the radio station
And what's the frequency, Kenneth..

(sorry but it HAD to be said...)

Michael A. Terrell · Oct 6, 2006

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

In article <45253DEE.896AC21A@earthlink.net>,
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Sure. That's local politics and wonderful to use as smoke and
mirrors to distract your attention from the real threats.

/BAH

Local? I guess you don't keep up with the news.

All politics is local. The subject we were talking about
is national security. If the Democrats, who are campaigning
for office, talk about dirty words in emails when they meet
with their voters, they don't have to describe what they
are going to do about the national threat. The one running
for governor here keeps harping about what our current governor
didn't do. However, when asked what would he have done, he
leaves the meeting.

It's a tactic not to address the issue of the threats to our
national security.

/BAH

You still don't get it. It is still going on, or haven't you
noticed?

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

John Fields · Oct 6, 2006

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:25:49 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:57:00 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

England, the US, and every other country in the world that has had
to fight for its existence was founded on terrorism or caused to
come into existence because of terrorism.

How was the US founded on terrorism? I've read that not a single
civilian was executed in the US Revolutionary War. The only people
that were shot at were British soldiers and their indian allies. There
were certainly no bombs planted in mathetplaces.

---
Insurgents, then, or guerrillas. I was talking about the tactics of
the various militias before the regular armies were established.
---

The important battles of the Rev War were fought between real armies.

---
Yup.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Jim Thompson · Oct 6, 2006

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 08:14:26 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 07:54:44 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

But Democrats ARE dirtbags. Try and deny that ;-)

...Jim Thompson

My wife is a Democrat, and she is not a dirtbag. She just doesn't
understand system dynamics as well as I do.

John

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Kurt Ullman · Oct 6, 2006

In article <eg5o0o$hr$1@blue.rahul.net>,
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:

In article
kurtullman-8C3615.09514505102006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <eg3143$okg$2@blue.rahul.net>,
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:
[....]

On (2) we have external evidence that he did try to get OBL. It was all
over the news and the Neocons yelled "wag the dog" about it.

If he did not consistently get interested in OBL about the time
Monica was to testify, etc., he might not have heard that as much.

Do you have any proof of either part of that?

Google the attacks and monica's testimony. Look at the dates. Stare
in wild wonder.

Kurt Ullman · Oct 6, 2006

In article <eg5oll$hr$5@blue.rahul.net>,
kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote:

In article
kurtullman-0481F2.19314905102006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

Managed to put down the
chimney of the Chinese Embassy during Kosovo, too, Rip roaring accuracy.

You are assuming it was an error. Consider that it may have been on
purpose and think back.

Nope., In fact the follow-up investigation showed that they had
targeted that building because... wait for it... the Kosovo phone book
noted it was the HQ for one of the nasties. Who had since moved out the
Chinese guys moved in.

Jihad needs scientists

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