Iraqi prisoner-abuse scandal widens; Pentagon investigating

G

Gilbert Mouget

Guest
THE SHAME BE WITH EVERY US CITIZEN

USA IS NOT A CIVILIZED COUNTRY ANYMORE

BUSH = BIN LADIN


WASHINGTON - As investigations into U.S. military abuse of Iraqi
captives gathered steam, Pentagon officials revealed Tuesday that
they have investigated the deaths of 25 prisoners overseas and
labeled two of them homicides.


The widening scandal threatened to seriously damage America's
image abroad, especially in the Muslim and Arab world.
On Capitol Hill, angry lawmakers - some reliable Republican
allies of the Bush administration - demanded that Secretary of
Defense Donald Rumsfeld appear at a public hearing to explain
how American jailers could have been allowed to sadistically
abuse Iraqi prisoners.


Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., called the abuse
disgusting and degrading and questioned why Congress had been
kept in the dark.


Sen. John Warner, R-Va., chairman of the Senate Armed Services
Committee, called the incidents the most "serious a problem of
breakdown in discipline as I've ever observed."


"Who is responsible for what happened?" asked Sen. Joseph Biden,
the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
"I think it starts with Rumsfeld and works its way down."


Biden said the abuse "warrants somebody's resignation" but
declined to say whether it should be Rumsfeld.


Making his first remarks about the abuse at the Abu Ghraib
prison, Rumsfeld on Tuesday called the actions "totally
unacceptable and un-American." He said an internal Pentagon
report that described the prisoners as being beaten, sodomized
and drenched in phosphoric liquid and cold water left him
"deeply disturbed."


Rumsfeld pledged that those responsible would be brought to
justice.


"I have no doubt that we will take these charges and
allegations most seriously," he said.


Photos of naked Iraqi prisoners stacked on top of each other and
forced to simulate sex acts while their American captors looked
on laughing have been broadcast around the world to widespread
condemnation.


Since then, other Iraqis have alleged that they too have been beaten.


Six U.S. soldiers are facing criminal charges and another six have
been reprimanded. Several investigations are under way at the Pentagon.


Appearing at the United Nations in New York City on Tuesday, Secretary
of State Colin Powell said that even though the abuse had been
perpetrated by a small number of troops, he worried about the impact
it will have on U.S. foreign policy.


"I'm deeply concerned about the horrible image that this has sent
around the world," Powell said.


Powell, a retired Army general, called the abuse of detainees
"illegal" and "immoral."


A State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity,
said Powell's tough comments were prompted by a concern that other
administration officials, including Rumsfeld, hadn't expressed
sufficient remorse.


National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice also went into damage
control mode in interviews on several Arab television networks.


"We all feel outraged at these pictures," Rice told al Arabiya.
"I want to assure people in the Arab world ... that the president
is determined to get to the bottom of it."


The White House said Tuesday evening that President Bush also is
planning to do interviews with Arab TV outlets.


But a European diplomat for the United Nations said: "The damage
is overwhelming."


"Clearly it makes things more difficult for the Americans" in the
Arab world and beyond, said the diplomat, speaking on condition of
anonymity.


New revelations on Tuesday about prisoner deaths in Afghanistan and
Iraq seemed certain to add fuel to the fire.


An Army soldier was accused of using excessive force in the shooting
death of an Iraqi prisoner. He was convicted in the U.S. military
justice system but served no jail time. His rank was reduced to
private and he was thrown out of the service.


The second homicide was committed by a private contractor working
with the CIA, said a government official, who spoke on condition
of anonymity. The case has been referred to the Justice Department.


Officials are continuing to investigate 10 deaths and 10 assaults.
A third homicide was ruled justifiable by authorities.


Military coroners ruled that two detainee deaths at the Bagram Air
Base in Afghanistan in December 2002 were homicides. But the results
of military investigations into those deaths haven't been made public.
It has also been reported that a former Iraqi general, Abed Hamed
Mowhoush, died during American interrogations late last year.
It's unknown whether any of those cases is included in the Pentagon
statistics released Tuesday.


Gen. George Casey, vice chairman of the Army, briefed the Senate Armed
Services Committee behind closed doors Tuesday morning. Afterward, he
told reporters that the actions at Abu Ghraib prison - while horrific -
were an aberration.


"What you see on those pictures is not indicative of our training or
values," Casey said.


Still, there were calls for more hearings to investigate further,
including whether civilian contractors should be dealing with foreign
prisoners as some are in Iraq.


"Any incident like this would lead to an overall review of how
prisoners are treated," said Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., chairman
of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.


Some warned that the images could spark fresh violence against
U.S. soldiers.


"There is going to be a wave of revulsion that is going to sweep
over us, I am afraid," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the top
Democrat of the Senate Armed Services Committee.


"It's going to hurt our troops and make this country a lot less
secure."




Tom Daschle, D-S.D., the Senate minority leader, questioned why
Bush hadn't learned of the incident sooner. He complained that
Rumsfeld and key Pentagon leaders had briefed lawmakers on the
same day that the prisoner abuse story broke on the CBS newsmagazine
show "60 Minutes," but failed to mention the allegations.


"Now, why were we not told in a classified briefing why this happened
and that it happened at all?" Daschle said.


Rumsfeld allowed Tuesday that he hadn't read all of an internal
Pentagon report, completed about a month ago, detailing the abuses at
the Abu Ghraib prison.


And the defense secretary bridled at the portrayal of the guards'
activities as torture. "I'm not a lawyer. My impression is that what
has been charged thus far is abuse, which I believe technically is
different from torture."


Although the report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba was classified as
secret and not distributed to lawmakers, the Pentagon said there
was no attempt at a cover-up.


"There has been no attempt to hide this," said Gen. Peter Pace,
vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "What we've been trying
to do is find out the truth of the matter so we can get on about
correcting, finding out who did what and then taking proper action."


Human rights groups say they have been kept at arms length from U.S.
military detention facilities. As a result, some say, jailers are
largely unaccountable and a lawless culture has been allowed to develop.


"We've visited prisons in places like Libya, which is not exactly
known for its openness," said Amnesty International spokesman Alistair
Hodgett said. "But with the United States, the answer is no" to access.


The top human rights agency of the United Nations also said Tuesday that
it has launched an investigation into the state of Iraqi civil rights,
which will include a look at the prison abuses.



--
"We, citizens of the world, call for the universal abolition of the death penalty and
for an immediate halt to executions of those condemned to death throughout the world."

<URL:http://www.moratorium2000.org/action/petition.lasso>
 
On Wed, 5 May 2004 03:11:24 +0200, Gilbert Mouget
<prenom.nom@free.fr.invalid> wrote:

THE SHAME BE WITH EVERY US CITIZEN

USA IS NOT A CIVILIZED COUNTRY ANYMORE

BUSH = BIN LADIN


[snip]
The top human rights agency of the United Nations also said Tuesday that
it has launched an investigation into the state of Iraqi civil rights,
which will include a look at the prison abuses.
Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.

A pox on the French! Plonk!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> a écrit dans le message de news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 03:11:24 +0200, Gilbert Mouget
prenom.nom@free.fr.invalid> wrote:


Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Better be a dumb-ass French than a drunk US citizen.
 
On Wed, 05 May 2004 01:39:24 GMT, "William Margeret" <perso@micro.com>
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> a écrit dans le message de news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 03:11:24 +0200, Gilbert Mouget
prenom.nom@free.fr.invalid> wrote:


Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Better be a dumb-ass French than a drunk US citizen.
Are you implying I'm a drunk? The dumb-shits seem to be out in force
tonight! Plonk!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
In news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com,
Jim Thompson typed:
Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.
We actually do more than frown at them, and we get plenty of coverage of
every angle (none of the Euro participants here has brought up a single
point that hasn't been put forward on US TV already) while the French
seem blissfully unconcerned about their own high-level shenanigans in
Iraq, North Africa, and the UN.


--
-Reply in group, but if emailing add 2 more zeros-
-and remove the obvious-
 
In article <b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> writes:
On Wed, 5 May 2004 03:11:24 +0200, Gilbert Mouget
prenom.nom@free.fr.invalid> wrote:


THE SHAME BE WITH EVERY US CITIZEN

USA IS NOT A CIVILIZED COUNTRY ANYMORE

BUSH = BIN LADIN


[snip]
The top human rights agency of the United Nations also said Tuesday that
it has launched an investigation into the state of Iraqi civil rights,
which will include a look at the prison abuses.

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.

The idiotic French don't realize that the pictures were released by
a US TV network!!! I suspect that if it was up to most USAers,
the American military abusers should get the same punishment
as the French business people who did LOTS more horrible damage
against the Iraqis by effectively witholding food to innocent
women and children.

If the soldiers would get 30yrs in prison, it would be appropriate
for the several higher level French governmental officials (including
Villepan and Chirac) go to jail for the same amount of time. The
horrors caused/supported by the French politicians were actually
MUCH MUCH substantial (including mass graves) than the small scale
abuses by American personnel.

If there is a death penalty for a murder of a single (or two)
Iraqi prisoners, then it would likely be appropriate to hang
Chirac and Villepan also for the 1000's of Iraqis who were terribly
disadvantaged or killed.

A public execution resulting from EU corruption would be a good
and cathartic action to help to mitigate EU arrogance.

John
 
"William Margeret" <perso@micro.com> wrote in message
news:gBXlc.3797980$iA2.443375@news.easynews.com...

Better be a dumb-ass French than a drunk US citizen.
"Yes, I am drunk - but you are ugly. And tomorrow I shall be sober!"
W. Churchill.
 
"John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:c79s09$ae6$1@news.iquest.net...

A public execution resulting from EU corruption would be a good
and cathartic action to help to mitigate EU arrogance.
A Decapitation Strike (tm) against the entire French government ... It has
been tried before, you know.
 
On Wed, 5 May 2004 04:53:29 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

A public execution resulting from EU corruption would be a good
and cathartic action to help to mitigate EU arrogance.
Only one?
How would you choose between Kohl, Chirac and Berlusconi to name just
three utterly corrupt leaders (or former leader in the case of Kohl)
who've been proven to be thoroughly dishonest on a truly awsome scale.
--

The BBC: licenced at public expense to spread lies.
 
Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

"John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:c79s09$ae6$1@news.iquest.net...


A public execution resulting from EU corruption would be a good
and cathartic action to help to mitigate EU arrogance.


A Decapitation Strike (tm) against the entire French government ... It has
been tried before, you know.
No, not that, chaos would ensue like in Iraq. Keep the French government
in place, it is corrupt and collaborates so well. Its had so much
experience.

--
Scott

**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!

http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

**********************************
 
On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:35:38 +0200, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
<frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote:

"John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:c79s09$ae6$1@news.iquest.net...

A public execution resulting from EU corruption would be a good
and cathartic action to help to mitigate EU arrogance.

A Decapitation Strike (tm) against the entire French government ... It has
been tried before, you know.
ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:31:57 +0200, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
<frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote:

"William Margeret" <perso@micro.com> wrote in message
news:gBXlc.3797980$iA2.443375@news.easynews.com...

Better be a dumb-ass French than a drunk US citizen.

"Yes, I am drunk - but you are ugly. And tomorrow I shall be sober!"
W. Churchill.
Damn! Frithiof, You are keeping me in stitches this morning!
ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 03:11:24 +0200, Gilbert Mouget
prenom.nom@free.fr.invalid> wrote:


THE SHAME BE WITH EVERY US CITIZEN

USA IS NOT A CIVILIZED COUNTRY ANYMORE

BUSH = BIN LADIN


[snip]
The top human rights agency of the United Nations also said Tuesday that
it has launched an investigation into the state of Iraqi civil rights,
which will include a look at the prison abuses.

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.
Well, our european (danish) media has reported that the US government
intially told the US press to keep a lit on the story. So much for free
speach in gods own country *s*

Cheers

Klaus
 
"Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund" <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40995d2a$0$219$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk...
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 03:11:24 +0200, Gilbert Mouget
prenom.nom@free.fr.invalid> wrote:


THE SHAME BE WITH EVERY US CITIZEN

USA IS NOT A CIVILIZED COUNTRY ANYMORE

BUSH = BIN LADIN


[snip]
The top human rights agency of the United Nations also said Tuesday
that
it has launched an investigation into the state of Iraqi civil rights,
which will include a look at the prison abuses.

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.


Well, our european (danish) media has reported that the US government
intially told the US press to keep a lit on the story. So much for free
speach in gods own country *s*
It's not always the government. The Disney Co. has prohibited the showing
in the US of Roger Moore's new movie about the Bush-Saudi connections (it
will be shown at the Cannes film festival, however). And a reactionary
broadcast comapany refused to carry Nightline last Friday night because Ted
Koppel was reading the names of all American soldiers killed in the war on
terrorism. They said it was too "political". Where I grew up, the entire
student body, Grades 1-12, marched from the local WWI/II monument to the
Civil War monument every Memorial Day, and read off all the names. We
considered it to be "patriotic".

Sometimes it is the government. Recently NASA headquarters forbade in-house
scientists from making public comments on a new science fiction movie
dealing with global warming.
 
On Wed, 5 May 2004 23:32:41 +0200, "Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund"
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
[snip]

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.


Well, our european (danish) media has reported that the US government
intially told the US press to keep a lit on the story. So much for free
speach in gods own country *s*

Cheers

Klaus
And WHY did they report that FALSE statement? Euro-trash at its
finest? Our press is free to say anything it wants, PERIOD, and it
does so all the time. YOUR press is tainted by government oversight,

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:sjpi90pvb6o8ovncuhcvlq8no2n3algq9f@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 23:32:41 +0200, "Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund"
klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
[snip]

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.


Well, our european (danish) media has reported that the US government
intially told the US press to keep a lit on the story. So much for free
speach in gods own country *s*

Cheers

Klaus


And WHY did they report that FALSE statement? Euro-trash at its
finest? Our press is free to say anything it wants, PERIOD, and it
does so all the time. YOUR press is tainted by government oversight,
Perhaps at this late hour I simply cannot follow your reasoning. Why do you
say your press is free to say anything when the Bush administration told
them to keep quiet?

Our press is certainly not government controlled. When it comes to free
speach I think we are way ahead of you. But well, cannot seem to discuss
with you - seems your are blinded by your patriotism....

Cheers

Klaus
 
On Wed, 05 May 2004 15:14:18 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2004 23:32:41 +0200, "Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund"
klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
[snip]

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.


Well, our european (danish) media has reported that the US government
intially told the US press to keep a lit on the story. So much for free
speach in gods own country *s*

Cheers

Klaus


And WHY did they report that FALSE statement? Euro-trash at its
finest? Our press is free to say anything it wants, PERIOD, and it
does so all the time. YOUR press is tainted by government oversight,

...Jim Thompson
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-delay0503,0,2615874.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

"CBS News delayed reporting for two weeks about U.S. soldiers' alleged
abuse of Iraqi prisoners, following a personal request from the
chairman of the joint chiefs of staff"

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Thu, 6 May 2004 00:27:11 +0200, "Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund"
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:sjpi90pvb6o8ovncuhcvlq8no2n3algq9f@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 23:32:41 +0200, "Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund"
klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3gg90hrl69lf9s1pm99obd0plpblk6jmd@4ax.com...
[snip]

Do you dumb-ass French think we Americans can't read our newspapers or
see this "news" on TV? It's getting saturation coverage here. We
frown on such shenanigans by our soldiers.


Well, our european (danish) media has reported that the US government
intially told the US press to keep a lit on the story. So much for free
speach in gods own country *s*

Cheers

Klaus


And WHY did they report that FALSE statement? Euro-trash at its
finest? Our press is free to say anything it wants, PERIOD, and it
does so all the time. YOUR press is tainted by government oversight,


Perhaps at this late hour I simply cannot follow your reasoning. Why do you
say your press is free to say anything when the Bush administration told
them to keep quiet?

Our press is certainly not government controlled. When it comes to free
speach I think we are way ahead of you. But well, cannot seem to discuss
with you - seems your are blinded by your patriotism....

Cheers

Klaus
(1) Dan Rather is not regarded as a reliable source of pond scum, on
this side of the pond, having been in the news "manufacturing"
business for many years ;-)

(2) From the postings it would appear that Europe knew about these
atrocities at the same time we did. Who, in Europe, was holding back
the info?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Thu, 6 May 2004 00:27:11 +0200, "Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund"
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
Perhaps at this late hour I simply cannot follow your reasoning. Why do you
say your press is free to say anything when the Bush administration told
them to keep quiet?

Our press is certainly not government controlled. When it comes to free
speach I think we are way ahead of you. But well, cannot seem to discuss
with you - seems your are blinded by your patriotism....

Cheers

Klaus
It just came over the wire that Bush learned of the atrocities from
TV.

Looks like some general's heads will roll for that.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 

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