Interesting on Tesla sudden accelerations......

[Don Y]

On 7/20/2023 1:52 PM, Don Y wrote:

On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my gasoline
car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Mine is a 70A circuit.

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Which appears to be the case.

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

It would be interesting to know what the power consumption is
like while \"maintaining\" course vs. changing course. The
former would effectively represent a constant load on the
engine whereas the latter would suggest the \"cost\" of
altering direction.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:52:56 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 23.21.53 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement
How does it save power???
servo pump is running all the time, electric more only uses power when you actually need assist

Very little power. It\'s literally so little to not even be worth mentioning it.

I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"?
yes room, and in a space where it can be driven by a belt

I don\'t recall anyone complaining about needing room for the power steering pump. It\'s probably the smallest component on the engine.

I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller.
it is a lump on the side of the steering column under the dash,
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/519e327246950ceps-577f8e32ee41f.jpg

or on the steering rack (like it is on a Tesla)

https://www.elmofo.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/20180907_095448.jpg

or https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/files/images/_large/power_steering2__large.jpg

So, where is the small part???

I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car..
it isn\'t a pump, it\'s an electric servo motor

Exactly, it pumps the steering.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Thursday, 20 July 2023 at 01:39:22 UTC-7, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

Electric power steering in a conventional vehicle can take up to about 150A peak at 12V when the steering is turned rapidly or the road wheel is obstructed.

The low-load power consumption can be just a few amps when driving in a straight line.

Tesla and other EVs all currently run the electric steering from 12V as well so they will have similar peak currents.

Many conventional vehicles actually use electro-hydraulic steering where the steering rack is similar to conventional hydraulic power steering but an electric motor drives the pump.

kw

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 13:52:45 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<e935748e-ec45-4b1f-8e30-2ee00a9d08cdn@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote=
:
On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 00:43:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
11e80a5a-c776-4c33...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:50:01 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wr=
ote=
:
On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ric=
ky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltj=
e w=
rot=
e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-i=
nve=
sti=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerat=
or-=
ped=
al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 =
say=
s,=


\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I woul=
d a=
ls=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one lab=
ele=
d \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the=
po=
w=
er steering unit causing the voltage drops?
I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer, u=
sin=
g some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system re-c=
ali=
brates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sounds like a crap system desi=
gn=
, assuming they are testing it correctly. You do realize the system volt=
ag=
e only dropped to around 10 V, right? It was the voltage on the actual h=
ig=
h current load that was below 7-8V. If a device is not wired for the cur=
re=
nt it draws, it\'s not going to work.


I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be su=
ppo=
rted=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum cur=
ren=
t o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a con=
sta=
nt=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto b=
att=
er=
ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.
Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connection i=
mpe=
dances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts.=


The \"fuse box bat\" never dipped below about 11.5V, so you can\'t blame th=
is =
on the battery.

Measured by the same electronics powered from it?

Why would you say that??? It\'s in a graph in the paper you linked to. Did=
you read the paper.


There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, then s=
tar=
t the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the suppl=
y l=
ines?

Bit of a leap there, eh? Have you also done a full analysis on the Ocean=
Ga=
te Titan?

Of course not left that to CNN
https://www.bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/fahrer-kam-von-d=
er-nachtschicht-tesla-taxi-in-frankfurt-in-flammen-84738186.bild.html
no end to Tesla troubles.

Here is something for you to read. Maybe you can learn something, rather t=
han reacting emotionally to every Tesla fire report you hear.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-less-gas-cars/

Well, I pointed out a real danger of Tesla cars, its not the first fire, we had several Teslas on fire here.


>I\'m willing to bet there\'s nothing anyone can say that will change your mind.

I was just reporting, if you do get all emotional about it a Tesla owner I can understand that.
Just relax and use a bike
Hiking?
Jetpack?
Wingsuit?
To each his own.


Would be cool, jetpack...
Small quadcopter?
So many choices!

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 1:38:34 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 13:52:45 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
e935748e-ec45-4b1f...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote=
:
On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 00:43:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
11e80a5a-c776-4c33...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:50:01 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wr=
ote=
:
On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ric> >ky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltj> >e w=
rot=
e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-i=
nve=
sti=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerat> >or-=
ped=
al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 > >say=
s,=


\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I woul=
d a=
ls=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one lab=
ele=
d \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the> > po=
w=
er steering unit causing the voltage drops?
I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer, u> >sin=
g some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system re-c> >ali=
brates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sounds like a crap system desi=
gn=
, assuming they are testing it correctly. You do realize the system volt=
ag=
e only dropped to around 10 V, right? It was the voltage on the actual h=
ig=
h current load that was below 7-8V. If a device is not wired for the cur> >re=
nt it draws, it\'s not going to work.


I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be su=
ppo=
rted=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum cur=
ren=
t o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a con=
sta=
nt=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto b> >att=
er=
ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.
Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connection i=
mpe=
dances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts..=


The \"fuse box bat\" never dipped below about 11.5V, so you can\'t blame th> >is =
on the battery.

Measured by the same electronics powered from it?

Why would you say that??? It\'s in a graph in the paper you linked to. Did> > you read the paper.


There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, then s> >tar=
t the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the suppl=
y l=
ines?

Bit of a leap there, eh? Have you also done a full analysis on the Ocean> >Ga=
te Titan?

Of course not left that to CNN
https://www.bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/fahrer-kam-von-d> >er-nachtschicht-tesla-taxi-in-frankfurt-in-flammen-84738186.bild.html
no end to Tesla troubles.

Here is something for you to read. Maybe you can learn something, rather t> >han reacting emotionally to every Tesla fire report you hear.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-less-gas-cars/
Well, I pointed out a real danger of Tesla cars, its not the first fire, we had several Teslas on fire here.

I\'m confused. Tesla and other EVs are three times less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles, and you are saying you\'ve pointed out \"a real danger\"??? Sounds to me like you\'ve pointed out a safety factor!

I\'m willing to bet there\'s nothing anyone can say that will change your mind.
I was just reporting, if you do get all emotional about it a Tesla owner I can understand that.

You aren\'t reporting. You are distorting. If you want to distort, get a job at Fox.

You are being silly. I would be happy to discuss issues with people, but you don\'t actually want to talk about facts. You just want to talk silly. Well, we all do what we do best.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 23:24:15 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<eadd230a-7a7d-4cd9-83f6-9984d2d5ef78n@googlegroups.com>:

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 1:38:34 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 13:52:45 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
e935748e-ec45-4b1f...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wr=
ote=
:
On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 00:43:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ric=
ky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
11e80a5a-c776-4c33...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:50:01 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje=
wr=
ote=
:
On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened =
Ric=
ky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Pante=
ltj=
e w=
rot=
e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal cras=
h
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safet=
y-i=
nve=
sti=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accele=
rat=
or-=
ped=
al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure =
11 =
say=
s,=


\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I w=
oul=
d a=
ls=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one =
lab=
ele=
d \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or =
the=
po=
w=
er steering unit causing the voltage drops?
I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer=
, u=
sin=
g some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system r=
e-c=
ali=
brates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sounds like a crap system d=
esi=
gn=
, assuming they are testing it correctly. You do realize the system v=
olt=
ag=
e only dropped to around 10 V, right? It was the voltage on the actua=
l h=
ig=
h current load that was below 7-8V. If a device is not wired for the =
cur=
re=
nt it draws, it\'s not going to work.


I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be=
su=
ppo=
rted=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum =
cur=
ren=
t o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a =
con=
sta=
nt=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, aut=
o b=
att=
er=
ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.
Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connectio=
n i=
mpe=
dances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts=
.=


The \"fuse box bat\" never dipped below about 11.5V, so you can\'t blame=
th=
is =
on the battery.

Measured by the same electronics powered from it?

Why would you say that??? It\'s in a graph in the paper you linked to. Di=
d=
you read the paper.


There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, the=
n s=
tar=
t the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the su=
ppl=
y l=
ines?

Bit of a leap there, eh? Have you also done a full analysis on the Oc=
ean=
Ga=
te Titan?

Of course not left that to CNN
https://www.bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/fahrer-kam-vo=
n-d=
er-nachtschicht-tesla-taxi-in-frankfurt-in-flammen-84738186.bild.html
no end to Tesla troubles.

Here is something for you to read. Maybe you can learn something, rather=
t=
han reacting emotionally to every Tesla fire report you hear.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-l=
ess-gas-cars/
Well, I pointed out a real danger of Tesla cars, its not the first fire, =
we had several Teslas on fire here.

I\'m confused. Tesla and other EVs are three times less likely to catch fir=
e than ICE vehicles, and you are saying you\'ve pointed out \"a real danger\"?=
?? Sounds to me like you\'ve pointed out a safety factor!


I\'m willing to bet there\'s nothing anyone can say that will change your =
mind.
I was just reporting, if you do get all emotional about it a Tesla owner =
I can understand that.

You aren\'t reporting. You are distorting. If you want to distort, get a j=
ob at Fox.

I pointed to a Tesla exploding and catching fire.
That is reporting a fact.

Here is an other interesting link:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/tesla-revenue-grows-to-25-billion-but-margin-shrinks-in-q2-2023/

And this one:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/07/musk-subpoenas-elizabeth-warren-days-after-she-called-for-tesla-investigation/

You are being silly. I would be happy to discuss issues with people, but y=
ou don\'t actually want to talk about facts. You just want to talk silly. =
Well, we all do what we do best.

Cars do get on fire, seen one here on new years eve..
recently 6 or so cought fire that were parked on a grass area where
the workers used a weed burner and as everything was dry the grass got fire and the cars went up in smoke.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2478619-auto-s-verwoest-door-brand-heeze-onkruidbrander-vermoedelijk-boosdoener

Now _think_ for a maoment
All thse fires , due to EXTERNAL influences are mostly <as there are many more petral cars than \'lectric ones> not Teslalas
So try to understand statistics.
We are discussing spontanuous fires
And Tesla togetehr with other \'lectric vehicles is a winner.


> -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging removed

Try a wingsuit

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 02.17.26 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:52:56 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 23.21.53 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement
How does it save power???
servo pump is running all the time, electric more only uses power when you actually need assist
Very little power. It\'s literally so little to not even be worth mentioning it.

enough that the manufacturers worry about it, but I guess you know better

I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"?
yes room, and in a space where it can be driven by a belt
I don\'t recall anyone complaining about needing room for the power steering pump. It\'s probably the smallest component on the engine.

then you didn\'t ask ask anyone, it may be small but it is very constrained on where you can put it when you have drive it with a belt

I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller.
it is a lump on the side of the steering column under the dash,
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/519e327246950ceps-577f8e32ee41f.jpg

or on the steering rack (like it is on a Tesla)

https://www.elmofo.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/20180907_095448.jpg

or https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/files/images/_large/power_steering2__large.jpg
So, where is the small part???
I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car.
it isn\'t a pump, it\'s an electric servo motor
Exactly, it pumps the steering.

pumps?

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Thursday, 20 July 2023 at 22:38:34 UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
....

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-less-gas-cars/
Well, I pointed out a real danger of Tesla cars, its not the first fire, we had several Teslas on fire here.
....

There have only been about 200 Tesla fires, due to any cause, worldwide and yet you have several near you?

Are you causing them?

https://www.tesla-fire.com

kw

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 21 Jul 2023 04:10:09 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
\"ke...@kjwdesigns.com\" <keith@kjwdesigns.com> wrote in
<65de9a1f-9c0e-4a3a-b763-fd37cfdb44acn@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, 20 July 2023 at 22:38:34 UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
...
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-less-gas-cars/
Well, I pointed out a real danger of Tesla cars, its not the first fire, we had several Teslas on fire here.
...

There have only been about 200 Tesla fires, due to any cause, worldwide and yet you have several near you?

Are you causing them?

https://www.tesla-fire.com

kw

One every year or more
2018, 2 on fire here
https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/twee-tesla-s-branden-uit-in-amsterdam-dit-is-geen-toeval~a0c33427/
2019
https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190602_04441485
...
etc
Cross Europe many more, yesterday one more in Germany
Teslas burning in garages that then destroys many petrol based cars, see the statistics?

Do not believe what tesla marketing wants you to know
We have newspapers and radio and teefee here!
Some sell snake oil, Tesla sells \'auto pilot\', some smell snake oil.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 5:28:03 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 23:24:15 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
eadd230a-7a7d-4cd9...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 1:38:34 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 13:52:45 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
e935748e-ec45-4b1f...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wr=
ote=
:
On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 00:43:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ric=
ky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
11e80a5a-c776-4c33...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:50:01 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje=
wr=
ote=
:
On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened > >Ric=
ky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Pante> >ltj=
e w=
rot=
e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal cras=
h
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safet> >y-i=
nve=
sti=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accele> >rat=
or-=
ped=
al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure > >11 =
say=
s,=


\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I w=
oul=
d a=
ls=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one =
lab=
ele=
d \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or > >the=
po=
w=
er steering unit causing the voltage drops?
I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer> >, u=
sin=
g some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system r> >e-c=
ali=
brates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sounds like a crap system d=
esi=
gn=
, assuming they are testing it correctly. You do realize the system v=
olt=
ag=
e only dropped to around 10 V, right? It was the voltage on the actua=
l h=
ig=
h current load that was below 7-8V. If a device is not wired for the > >cur=
re=
nt it draws, it\'s not going to work.


I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be=
su=
ppo=
rted=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum =
cur=
ren=
t o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a =
con=
sta=
nt=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, aut> >o b=
att=
er=
ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.
Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connectio> >n i=
mpe=
dances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts=
.=


The \"fuse box bat\" never dipped below about 11.5V, so you can\'t blame> > th=
is =
on the battery.

Measured by the same electronics powered from it?

Why would you say that??? It\'s in a graph in the paper you linked to. Di> >d=
you read the paper.


There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, the> >n s=
tar=
t the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the su=
ppl=
y l=
ines?

Bit of a leap there, eh? Have you also done a full analysis on the Oc> >ean=
Ga=
te Titan?

Of course not left that to CNN
https://www.bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/fahrer-kam-vo> >n-d=
er-nachtschicht-tesla-taxi-in-frankfurt-in-flammen-84738186.bild.html
no end to Tesla troubles.

Here is something for you to read. Maybe you can learn something, rather> > t=
han reacting emotionally to every Tesla fire report you hear.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-l=
ess-gas-cars/
Well, I pointed out a real danger of Tesla cars, its not the first fire, > >we had several Teslas on fire here.

I\'m confused. Tesla and other EVs are three times less likely to catch fir=
e than ICE vehicles, and you are saying you\'ve pointed out \"a real danger\"?> >?? Sounds to me like you\'ve pointed out a safety factor!


I\'m willing to bet there\'s nothing anyone can say that will change your =
mind.
I was just reporting, if you do get all emotional about it a Tesla owner =
I can understand that.

You aren\'t reporting. You are distorting. If you want to distort, get a j=
ob at Fox.

I pointed to a Tesla exploding and catching fire.
That is reporting a fact.

LOL You are a hugely valuable resource... as long as people want biased information. Thank you Kellyanne Conway.

Here is an other interesting link:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/tesla-revenue-grows-to-25-billion-but-margin-shrinks-in-q2-2023/

And this one:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/07/musk-subpoenas-elizabeth-warren-days-after-she-called-for-tesla-investigation/

Why are they interesting?

You are being silly. I would be happy to discuss issues with people, but y=
ou don\'t actually want to talk about facts. You just want to talk silly. > >Well, we all do what we do best.
Cars do get on fire, seen one here on new years eve..

Quite often. In the US it\'s about 150,000 a year. That\'s why insurance companies charge higher rates when you have an attached garage.

recently 6 or so cought fire that were parked on a grass area where
the workers used a weed burner and as everything was dry the grass got fire and the cars went up in smoke.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2478619-auto-s-verwoest-door-brand-heeze-onkruidbrander-vermoedelijk-boosdoener

Now _think_ for a maoment
All thse fires , due to EXTERNAL influences are mostly <as there are many more petral cars than \'lectric ones> not Teslalas

Absolutely irrelevant! Your data is cherry picked, showing how silly you are when you try. The rate of fires is three times higher in ICE, than EVs. You simply want to believe your made up crap. As I\'ve said, it doesn\'t matter what the facts are, you believe what you want to believe.

So try to understand statistics.
We are discussing spontanuous fires

Of course. Why would the rate of fires from external sources be higher with any type of car than another. If it\'s an external fire, it could be a bicycle and it would have the same rate.


> And Tesla togetehr with other \'lectric vehicles is a winner.

I\'m sorry you can\'t discuss this reasonably. I should not have expected anything else. I wonder what is wrong with your brain that it is rational when it comes to electronics, but falls apart when discussing EVs???

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 6:02:35 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 02.17.26 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:52:56 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 23.21.53 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement
How does it save power???
servo pump is running all the time, electric more only uses power when you actually need assist
Very little power. It\'s literally so little to not even be worth mentioning it.
enough that the manufacturers worry about it, but I guess you know better

Please show us how anyone is \"worrying\" about this idle power?

I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"?
yes room, and in a space where it can be driven by a belt
I don\'t recall anyone complaining about needing room for the power steering pump. It\'s probably the smallest component on the engine.
then you didn\'t ask ask anyone, it may be small but it is very constrained on where you can put it when you have drive it with a belt

I don\'t need to ask anyone. I can see with my eyes. Power steering pumps have been no problem for some 60-70 years.

I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller.
it is a lump on the side of the steering column under the dash,
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/519e327246950ceps-577f8e32ee41f.jpg

or on the steering rack (like it is on a Tesla)

https://www.elmofo.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/20180907_095448.jpg

or https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/files/images/_large/power_steering2__large.jpg
So, where is the small part???
I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car.
it isn\'t a pump, it\'s an electric servo motor
Exactly, it pumps the steering.
pumps?

Yeah

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pump
6 b : to energize

Have you never learned to use a dictionary?

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 19.26.13 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 6:02:35 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 02.17.26 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:52:56 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 23.21.53 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement
How does it save power???
servo pump is running all the time, electric more only uses power when you actually need assist
Very little power. It\'s literally so little to not even be worth mentioning it.
enough that the manufacturers worry about it, but I guess you know better
Please show us how anyone is \"worrying\" about this idle power?

what\'s the point? you\'d dismiss it anyway

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/power-steering-shifts-to-electric/

I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"?
yes room, and in a space where it can be driven by a belt
I don\'t recall anyone complaining about needing room for the power steering pump. It\'s probably the smallest component on the engine.
then you didn\'t ask ask anyone, it may be small but it is very constrained on where you can put it when you have drive it with a belt
I don\'t need to ask anyone. I can see with my eyes. Power steering pumps have been no problem for some 60-70 years.

all the manufacturer must be switching to electric power steering it for fun then

why make electric cars, combustion engines have been no problem for some 100 years

I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller.
it is a lump on the side of the steering column under the dash,
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/519e327246950ceps-577f8e32ee41f.jpg

or on the steering rack (like it is on a Tesla)

https://www.elmofo.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/20180907_095448.jpg

or https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/files/images/_large/power_steering2__large.jpg
So, where is the small part???
I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car.
it isn\'t a pump, it\'s an electric servo motor
Exactly, it pumps the steering.
pumps?
Yeah

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pump
6 b : to energize
.... (something, such as a laser) ...

and the engine pumps the car?, now you are just being silly, words have a commonly understood meaning

Have you never learned to use a dictionary?

I have, in several languages even

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 2:15:21 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 19.26.13 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 6:02:35 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
fredag den 21. juli 2023 kl. 02.17.26 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:52:56 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 23.21.53 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement
How does it save power???
servo pump is running all the time, electric more only uses power when you actually need assist
Very little power. It\'s literally so little to not even be worth mentioning it.
enough that the manufacturers worry about it, but I guess you know better
Please show us how anyone is \"worrying\" about this idle power?
what\'s the point? you\'d dismiss it anyway

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/power-steering-shifts-to-electric/
I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"?
yes room, and in a space where it can be driven by a belt
I don\'t recall anyone complaining about needing room for the power steering pump. It\'s probably the smallest component on the engine.
then you didn\'t ask ask anyone, it may be small but it is very constrained on where you can put it when you have drive it with a belt
I don\'t need to ask anyone. I can see with my eyes. Power steering pumps have been no problem for some 60-70 years.
all the manufacturer must be switching to electric power steering it for fun then

why make electric cars, combustion engines have been no problem for some 100 years
I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller.
it is a lump on the side of the steering column under the dash,
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/519e327246950ceps-577f8e32ee41f.jpg

or on the steering rack (like it is on a Tesla)

https://www.elmofo.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/20180907_095448.jpg

or https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/files/images/_large/power_steering2__large.jpg
So, where is the small part???
I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car.
it isn\'t a pump, it\'s an electric servo motor
Exactly, it pumps the steering.
pumps?
Yeah

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pump
6 b : to energize
... (something, such as a laser) ...

and the engine pumps the car?, now you are just being silly, words have a commonly understood meaning

Have you never learned to use a dictionary?
I have, in several languages even

As defined in the dictionary. I even cited the reference.

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-07-20 22:42, Ricky wrote:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.

Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

Not mine. Is electric for certain.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-07-20 22:52, Don Y wrote:

On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Good point. I\'ll have to find the fuse box next time :-D

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

Mine would make a scaring noise, so I turned the wheel a bit off.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-07-21 00:48, Don Y wrote:

On 7/20/2023 1:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Mine is a 70A circuit.

It is quite some power.

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Which appears to be the case.

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

It would be interesting to know what the power consumption is
like while \"maintaining\" course vs. changing course.  The
former would effectively represent a constant load on the
engine whereas the latter would suggest the \"cost\" of
altering direction.

My current car has a button to change the assist power, for city or for
normal use. It definitely feels softer on the city position. I only use
it for parking, then the small finger suffices.

On my previous car the electric steering broke down, and the replacement
was quite expensive: 1500 or 2000 €, IIRC.

I was on a highway and it was really surprising, the wheel became
suddenly very, very hard for a second, then would return to normal. Then
failed again a minute later, and repeat. Very surprising at 100..120 Km/h.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 4:54:04 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-07-21 00:48, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Mine is a 70A circuit.
It is quite some power.

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Which appears to be the case.

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

It would be interesting to know what the power consumption is
like while \"maintaining\" course vs. changing course. The
former would effectively represent a constant load on the
engine whereas the latter would suggest the \"cost\" of
altering direction.
My current car has a button to change the assist power, for city or for
normal use. It definitely feels softer on the city position. I only use
it for parking, then the small finger suffices.

I hope it at least gives the small finger a bit of a workout!

On my previous car the electric steering broke down, and the replacement
was quite expensive: 1500 or 2000 €, IIRC.

I was on a highway and it was really surprising, the wheel became
suddenly very, very hard for a second, then would return to normal. Then
failed again a minute later, and repeat. Very surprising at 100..120 Km/h..

Maybe you should look for a hydraulic power steering replacement? The electric ones sound pretty dangerous.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

lørdag den 22. juli 2023 kl. 00.54.30 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 4:54:04 PM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-21 00:48, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Mine is a 70A circuit.
It is quite some power.

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Which appears to be the case.

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

It would be interesting to know what the power consumption is
like while \"maintaining\" course vs. changing course. The
former would effectively represent a constant load on the
engine whereas the latter would suggest the \"cost\" of
altering direction.
My current car has a button to change the assist power, for city or for
normal use. It definitely feels softer on the city position. I only use
it for parking, then the small finger suffices.
I hope it at least gives the small finger a bit of a workout!
On my previous car the electric steering broke down, and the replacement
was quite expensive: 1500 or 2000 €, IIRC.

I was on a highway and it was really surprising, the wheel became
suddenly very, very hard for a second, then would return to normal. Then
failed again a minute later, and repeat. Very surprising at 100..120 Km/h.
Maybe you should look for a hydraulic power steering replacement? The electric ones sound pretty dangerous.

electric ones like on your Tesla?

 

[Don Y]

On 7/21/2023 1:51 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-07-21 00:48, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:52 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my gasoline
car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Mine is a 70A circuit.

It is quite some power.

*IT* is turning the wheel on your behalf (along side you).
Think of how hard it can be to turn the wheel \"unassisted\".

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Which appears to be the case.

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

It would be interesting to know what the power consumption is
like while \"maintaining\" course vs. changing course.  The
former would effectively represent a constant load on the
engine whereas the latter would suggest the \"cost\" of
altering direction.

My current car has a button to change the assist power, for city or for normal
use. It definitely feels softer on the city position. I only use it for
parking, then the small finger suffices.

You can change how responsive the steering is to your \"commands\" (motions).
You can also make the response as linear or nonlinear as you choose.
(can you say \"sporty\"?)

Manufacturers like it because it saves on fuel economy and gives them
greater leeway over where they can locate the components -- no need to
tap off the rotating crankshaft for operational power. One less
fluid to maintain, no plumbing to install, etc.

And, it lets them change the feel of the steering without regard for
engine speed or steering \"load\".

On my previous car the electric steering broke down, and the replacement was
quite expensive: 1500 or 2000 €, IIRC.

I suspect the \"controller\" failed, not the assist motor? All auto electronics
are overpriced. But, I suspect you *had* it repaired (instead of buying
parts for a DIY) so ended up having to deal with high labor costs.

In SWMBO\'s vehicle, the controller is probably at least two hours of labor
to access and replace.

And, it\'s in the passenger compartment so doubly inconvenient.

I was on a highway and it was really surprising, the wheel became suddenly
very, very hard for a second, then would return to normal. Then failed again a
minute later, and repeat. Very surprising at 100..120 Km/h.

I lost a front wheel bearing at highway speeds. This is exciting.
You lose braking because the rotor\'s wobble moves the calipers apart.

Unfortunately for me, I had paid to have my brakes done prior to that.
The morons failed to install the parking brake linkage (rear drums)
so I had no \"emergency brake\", either. (have never had anyone service
my brakes since!)

It was an interesting ~12 mile drive! But, an inexpensive repair:
new rotor, bearing and brake linkage (DIY).

 

[Don Y]

On 7/21/2023 1:46 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-07-20 22:52, Don Y wrote:
On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my gasoline
car, not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

Good point. I\'ll have to find the fuse box next time :-D

There are often two fuseboxes so if it\'s not in the first one
you check, look elsewhere.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

Mine would make a scaring noise, so I turned the wheel a bit off.

Hydraulic systems would scream as the belt slipped on the pump
when it \"could give no more\".