Interesting on Tesla sudden accelerations......

[Jan Panteltje]

NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

 

[a a]

On Wednesday, 19 July 2023 at 12:23:49 UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:

NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

autopilot has been banned 12 months ago since representing low science
and the team behind the autopilot fired

Tesla, Elon have no technology background to build sophisticated technologies called autopilot

 

[a a]

>

Darius the Dumb has posted yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa article.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 19-July-23 8:23 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:

NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Perhaps they wanted to save the cost of a diode and a capacitor.

Sylvia.

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 7/19/2023 6:23 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:

NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

It\'s remarkable they\'re willing to test full self-driving on public
roads, but AFAIK there are still no fully-automated freight railways in
the US..industry doesn\'t even trust this stuff to work in controlled
conditions..

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <6e719d22-a40c-49d5-9907-c8a63315589fn@googlegroups.com>,
Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current
of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In
particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

They\'re typically rated in \"cold cranking amps\", which would be
amperes available to the starter, at a high enough voltage to allow
the starter to crank the engine in a useful fashion. I\'ve never seen
this particular rating include a specific voltage guarantee.

You\'re right, batteries aren\'t constant-current sources, but neither
are they constant-voltage sources. They\'re somewhere in between,
often modeled as a constant voltage source in series with an internal
resistance.

I suspect that in this case, a high current demand may have caused
the battery\'s output voltage to sag (due to its internal series
resistance) enough to cause some down-stream device to malfunction. At
100 amps or above, it doesn\'t take many milliohms of ESR to create
a significant voltage dropout, and some devices may not tolerate this.

I ran into a vaguely similar situation last year. My car\'s alternator
stopped functioning (worn-out brushes, probably). The alternator warning
light came on. So did the brake warning light, for no immediately
obvious reason.

On inspection, it seems as if the brake fluid level sensor requires a
minimum of about 12 volts to operate properly. If the incoming
voltage sags too low, some part of the sensor interprets this as
\"brake fluid has dropped below the sensor\" and the warning light
comes on. There was plenty of fluid in the system, but the sensor
mis-read the situation. Once a local mechanic replaced the alternator,
the brake \"fault\" vanished as quickly as it had appeared.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/19/2023 12:07 PM, Dave Platt wrote:

They\'re typically rated in \"cold cranking amps\", which would be
amperes available to the starter, at a high enough voltage to allow
the starter to crank the engine in a useful fashion. I\'ve never seen
this particular rating include a specific voltage guarantee.

CCA are those that are available for 30 seconds at a terminal voltage
of 7.2V at 0F. I.e., the assumption is the starter can turn over the
vehicle at that temperature (mechanical load magnifies with decreasing
temperature) in 30 seconds.

You\'re right, batteries aren\'t constant-current sources, but neither
are they constant-voltage sources. They\'re somewhere in between,
often modeled as a constant voltage source in series with an internal
resistance.

And there are lots of opportunities for drops in cables (loose connections,
corrosion on binding posts, frayed cables, etc.)

I suspect that in this case, a high current demand may have caused
the battery\'s output voltage to sag (due to its internal series
resistance) enough to cause some down-stream device to malfunction. At
100 amps or above, it doesn\'t take many milliohms of ESR to create
a significant voltage dropout, and some devices may not tolerate this.

I ran into a vaguely similar situation last year. My car\'s alternator
stopped functioning (worn-out brushes, probably).

I have to routinely replace the diode trio in mine. Cheaper than
a new alternator (learned that after the first replacement)
but a tiny bit more effort.

The alternator warning
light came on. So did the brake warning light, for no immediately
obvious reason.

On inspection, it seems as if the brake fluid level sensor requires a
minimum of about 12 volts to operate properly. If the incoming
voltage sags too low, some part of the sensor interprets this as
\"brake fluid has dropped below the sensor\" and the warning light
comes on. There was plenty of fluid in the system, but the sensor
mis-read the situation. Once a local mechanic replaced the alternator,
the brake \"fault\" vanished as quickly as it had appeared.

So, a healthier battery would also have \"fixed\" the observation...

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:02:59 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 7/19/2023 6:23 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

It\'s remarkable they\'re willing to test full self-driving on public
roads, but AFAIK there are still no fully-automated freight railways in
the US..industry doesn\'t even trust this stuff to work in controlled
conditions..

\"Full self-driving\" is just a name. It is operated the same as autopilot, meaning it is not autonomous in any sense. I don\'t know the specific terms, as they have several levels of \"autonomous\" and use this same name for each. Tesla\'s FSD is no more autonomous than a cruise control, meaning the driver is expected to monitor operation at all times and are responsible for preventing accidents.

So no reason to require special approval for the use of FSD or autopilot.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 3:07:57 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:

In article <6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>,
Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current
of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In
particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps..
They\'re typically rated in \"cold cranking amps\", which would be
amperes available to the starter, at a high enough voltage to allow
the starter to crank the engine in a useful fashion. I\'ve never seen
this particular rating include a specific voltage guarantee.

You\'re right, batteries aren\'t constant-current sources, but neither
are they constant-voltage sources. They\'re somewhere in between,
often modeled as a constant voltage source in series with an internal
resistance.

I suspect that in this case, a high current demand may have caused
the battery\'s output voltage to sag (due to its internal series
resistance) enough to cause some down-stream device to malfunction. At
100 amps or above, it doesn\'t take many milliohms of ESR to create
a significant voltage dropout, and some devices may not tolerate this.

Then that is the fault of the downstream equipment. The automotive environment is very well understood. I recall working on military equipment a couple of decades ago which was under a specification. They talked about voltage surges and drops down to 6V (starting conditions). This spec would be intended to cover many conditions, including old batteries. It would be pointless to develop a spec that only covers new batteries.

Consumer equipment may not need to operate to -55 °C, but it needs to work with a two or three volt sag.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<6e719d22-a40c-49d5-9907-c8a63315589fn@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrot=
e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investi=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-ped=
al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,=


\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would als=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the pow=
er steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer, using some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system re-calibrates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be supported=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batter=
ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connection impedances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts.
There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, then start the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the supply lines?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 15:02:51 -0400) it happened bitrex
<user@example.net> wrote in <vrWtM.97736$mPI2.91556@fx15.iad>:

On 7/19/2023 6:23 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!


It\'s remarkable they\'re willing to test full self-driving on public
roads, but AFAIK there are still no fully-automated freight railways in
the US..industry doesn\'t even trust this stuff to work in controlled
conditions..

Poor Elon, he had so many problems with Twitter already :-|

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:50:01 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrot> >e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investi=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-ped> >al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would als=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the pow> >er steering unit causing the voltage drops?
I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer, using some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system re-calibrates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sounds like a crap system design, assuming they are testing it correctly. You do realize the system voltage only dropped to around 10 V, right? It was the voltage on the actual high current load that was below 7-8V. If a device is not wired for the current it draws, it\'s not going to work.

I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be supported=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batter> >ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.
Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connection impedances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts.

The \"fuse box bat\" never dipped below about 11.5V, so you can\'t blame this on the battery.

There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, then start the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the supply lines?

Bit of a leap there, eh? Have you also done a full analysis on the OceanGate Titan?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.

Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 7/20/2023 1:38 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my gasoline car,
not a tesla.

Perhaps look for the fuse controling that circuit?

Common sense suggests it would likely be on its own circuit
(so something unrelated taking out the fuse doesn\'t cost you
your steering).

I\'ll check on my car to see if it is readily apparent.

[Have you noticed how \"different\" electric assist feels
when you hit the limits vs. the old hydraulic assist?]

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 20 Jul 2023 00:43:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
11e80a5a-c776-4c33...@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 2:50:01 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote=
:
On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
6e719d22-a40c-49d5...@googlegroups.com>:

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje w> >rot=
e:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-inve=
sti=
gation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-> >ped=
al-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 say> >s,=


\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would a=
ls=
o point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labele=
d \"=
load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the po> >w=
er steering unit causing the voltage drops?
I have the impression that the whole article is written by a lawyer, usin> >g some input from electronic guys..
But the gist is, as far as I understand it, that while the system re-cali> >brates itself the system\'s power supply voltage changes
resulting in a wrong drive signal.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sounds like a crap system design=
, assuming they are testing it correctly. You do realize the system voltag=
e only dropped to around 10 V, right? It was the voltage on the actual hig=
h current load that was below 7-8V. If a device is not wired for the curre> >nt it draws, it\'s not going to work.


I found text saying, \"This higher in-rush current can’t be suppo=
rted=
by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum curren=
t o=
f only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a consta=
nt=
current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batt> >er=
ies are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.
Well, batteries have an internal resistance, and there is connection impe> >dances added.
So high current peaks will cause voltage dips, as will bad contacts.

The \"fuse box bat\" never dipped below about 11.5V, so you can\'t blame this =
on the battery.

Measured by the same electronics powered from it?

Why would you say that??? It\'s in a graph in the paper you linked to. Did you read the paper.

There was a nice thing, posted about it here long ago, somebody
using super capacitors to start a car (so charge the supercaps, then star> >t the car without battery).
It worked,
Maybe Tesla could use some supercaps to prevent fast dips on the supply l=
ines?

Bit of a leap there, eh? Have you also done a full analysis on the OceanGa=
te Titan?

Of course not left that to CNN
https://www.bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/fahrer-kam-von-der-nachtschicht-tesla-taxi-in-frankfurt-in-flammen-84738186.bild.html
no end to Tesla troubles.

Here is something for you to read. Maybe you can learn something, rather than reacting emotionally to every Tesla fire report you hear.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/electric-vehicles-catch-fire-considerably-less-gas-cars/

I\'m willing to bet there\'s nothing anyone can say that will change your mind.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement

How does it save power??? I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"? I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller.

I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 23.21.53 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:59:30 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.42.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:39:22 AM UTC-4, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-19 18:12, Ricky wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:23:49 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/feds-open-yet-another-safety-investigation-into-tesla-autopilot/

paper:
https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EDR-accelerator-pedal-data-can-be-wrong.pdf
Lots of blah blah but figure 11 says it all:
voltage dip on 12 V supply...

That should have been anticipated in the design for sure!
Any car can have that!

Maybe I\'ve lost the ability to read, but the caption under figure 11 says,

\"Voltage spikes on the “12V”
supply line of an ICE vehicle as caused by
an electronic power steering (EPS)
system during a slalom maneuver.[9]\"

How is the 12V power in an ICE vehicle significant to a Tesla? I would also point out that the line showing the most severe dips is the one labeled \"load\". I\'m not sure what that is. Is it a unit being observed, or the power steering unit causing the voltage drops?

I found text saying, \"This higher inrush current can’t be supported by the “12V” battery, which can supply a maximum current of only 100A or less\". I\'ve never found a battery to behave like a constant current source, limiting to any given current. In particular, auto batteries are often rated for multiple hundreds of amps.

I wonder how much current needs the power steering? I mean for my
gasoline car, not a tesla.
Most power steering is via a pump hanging on the engine. When the engine stops turning, the power steering stops working. You have to manually steer the car.

a lot of newer cars have electric power assist integrated in the steering column. saves having to find for a pump and saves power
also makes things like variable assist and lanes assist easy to implement
How does it save power???

servo pump is running all the time, electric more only uses power when you actually need assist

>I assume you meant \"find <room> for a pump\"?

yes room, and in a space where it can be driven by a belt

>I can\'t see how an electric motor and gears would be significantly smaller..

it is a lump on the side of the steering column under the dash,
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/700/0/uploads/articles/519e327246950ceps-577f8e32ee41f.jpg

or on the steering rack (like it is on a Tesla)

https://www.elmofo.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/0/20180907_095448.jpg

or https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/files/images/_large/power_steering2__large.jpg

I\'m sure the electric pump costs more money or it would be on every car.

it isn\'t a pump, it\'s an electric servo motor