Inexpensive replacement for these garage flourescent lights?

[Bill Moinihan]

Cydrome Leader wrote:

I have eyes. I can see color, flicker and easily note bad
quality lighting, which most LED units are.

I probably am not as discerning as you are, and, we should remember, this is
a "garage" so, it's not a "reading light" or a "mood light" by any stretch
of the imagination.

So, for a garage, I can only safely say that the light output from four of
these LED T8 bulbs driven by magnetic T12 ballasts is far brighter and less
flickery than four T12 fluorescent bulbs which are a few years old.

Sure, I'm comparing old to new, but that's what I have to compare.

I don't notice ANY flicker, although I hear a faint hum, which is probably
from the T12 ballast being squeezed at 120 cycles per second.

It's certainly *white* light, far whiter than the (ols) fluorescents were.
The price was about 3 times what a replacement fluorescent would cost.

Over time, I'd be forced to replace the T12s anyway, so,

As I stated in another reply, fluorescent lamps can last a very long
time if they remain on all day or use a program start ballast. The
constant on/off is what kills them prematurely. LEDs can handle the
on/off for years and their only problem is losing light output after the
manufactures lifetime claim.

Yeah, right, the brightness only drops after 50,000 hours.

You are correct in that the brightness of LEDs diminishes from day 1, mostly
due to fundamental cracks growing between crystals, so the "lifetime" is
supposed to be to the L70, which is the point at which the LED is at 70% of
its original brightness.

 

[dpb]

On 11/03/2016 3:16 PM, Bill Moinihan wrote:
....

> So, it's all about energy.

No, it's "all for the children"...

 

[Bill Moinihan]

Meanie wrote:

Stop purchasing your lamps from China and maybe your eyes will see
something better.

You (and I) both need a *better* way to tell the quality of the lamp.

Take the T12 ballasts I have, for example, which are made in New Jersey.
That doesn't mean they're high quality, just because they're made in the
USA, does it?

There must be a *better* indicator of quality for LED lamps than just where
it's made.

For example, is there *any* indication of the quality of the Costco Feit
lamps that I bought?

Here's the spec sheet, I think:
http://www.feit.com/documents/pdf/T4819_LEDIF_41K_SpecSheet.pdf

NOTE: Tomorrow I'll ask Feit for the LM-79 and LM-80 data.

What do you think about the quality of these Feit lamps, made in China?

 

[Meanie]

On 11/3/2016 6:28 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair Meanie <meanie@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/2/2016 2:26 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
In sci.electronics.repair Bill Moinihan <moi@example.com> wrote:
What is an inexpensive replacement for these garage flourescent lights?
https://s13.postimg.org/7jivra81j/garage_lights.jpg

There are four of these sets of lights, each of which holds 4 flourescent
bulbs, which keep flickering, burning out, and making humming sounds.

What do you think, honestly, of this idea?

It's bad, but not by intent.

Costco has supposedly "universal" LED replacement tubes:
https://s21.postimg.org/qei7hifs7/1_led_tubes_at_costco.jpg

The price is currently $7.70 per tube:
https://s21.postimg.org/8pqgpw413/2_led_tubes_at_costco.jpg

So I bought 16 of these reputedly "universal" LED tubes:
https://s21.postimg.org/7oq80rn1j/3_led_tubes_at_home.jpg

At home I compared them by size to the original tubes:
https://s21.postimg.org/khec0oynb/4_led_tubes_at_home.jpg

Where I can't find any T2 or T4 or T8 or T12 designation at all:
https://s21.postimg.org/4x6ya5oiv/5_led_tubes_at_home.jpg

Looks like a standard T12 bulb. It's real easy to test though. Each "T" in
a bulb designator is 1/8th of an inch. T8s are 1 inch in diameter for
example. T5 is 5/8th inch etc.

All four of the 4-tube boxes hum and flicker and have bad bulbs:
https://s21.postimg.org/ne1d0z4h3/6_led_tubes_at_home.jpg

Opening them up, I find only about half still working:
https://s21.postimg.org/9lrjj333b/7_led_tubes_at_home.jpg

I can't find the ballast nor the T2,T4,T8 designation inside.
All it says on the metal is "USE RAPID START LAMPS":
https://s21.postimg.org/jlhul8oyv/8_led_tubes_at_home.jpg

Where's the ballast?
Will these bulbs work in these 4 4-bulb garage fixtures?
What type of lights do I have anyway (T2?, T4?, T8? T12?)

LED retrofits are usually real stupid in practice as there's no point of
installing "efficient" lighting in an old shitty fixture. Running LEDs off
an old magnetic ballast is is just way convoluted. Ballasts die all the
time anyways and if they go, they're likely to take anything connected to
them with it.

The best move is get a new fixture. It will have a new electronic ballast
and will take better skinnier flourescent bulbs. It will be the best of
all worlds- cheap bulbs, no flicker and good colored qualities. LEDs can't
touch that, especially cheapo stuff at the discount warehouse.


Not sure where you obtain your info but LED lamps offer a wide range of
lumen output and color output and they don't flicker unless they are
cheap LEDs. The price of fluorescent tubes are increasing, even T8s
while LEDs are still decreasing.

For starters, I have eyes. I can see color, flicker and easily note bad
quality lighting, which most LED units are.

As I stated in another reply, fluorescent lamps can last a very long
time if they remain on all day or use a program start ballast. The
constant on/off is what kills them prematurely. LEDs can handle the
on/off for years and their only problem is losing light output after the
manufactures lifetime claim.

Yeah, right, the brightness only drops after 50,000 hours.

get real.

Stop purchasing your lamps from China and maybe your eyes will see
something better.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.repair Bill Moinihan <moi@example.com> wrote:

Meanie wrote:

Stop purchasing your lamps from China and maybe your eyes will see
something better.

You (and I) both need a *better* way to tell the quality of the lamp.

Take the T12 ballasts I have, for example, which are made in New Jersey.
That doesn't mean they're high quality, just because they're made in the
USA, does it?

We can deduce they were made good enough to last a couple decades.

There must be a *better* indicator of quality for LED lamps than just where
it's made.

For example, is there *any* indication of the quality of the Costco Feit
lamps that I bought?

yes, what you paid for them, and the fact there's no real spec sheet on
them.

Here's the spec sheet, I think:
http://www.feit.com/documents/pdf/T4819_LEDIF_41K_SpecSheet.pdf

As far a lighting goes, that's a 100% meaningless spec sheet. It doesn't
even mention the CRI, which is guaranteed to be unspecified anywhere and
not controlled.

NOTE: Tomorrow I'll ask Feit for the LM-79 and LM-80 data.

What do you think about the quality of these Feit lamps, made in China?

cheapest imported lighting would be the best description.

 

[Bill Moinihan]

Cydrome Leader wrote:

> We can deduce they were made good enough to last a couple decades.

Good point, in that they were made well enough to last for probably 30
years.

yes, what you paid for them, and the fact there's no real spec sheet on
them.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
What you paid is NEVER an indication of quality.

I can give you hundreds of examples which nullify instantly that idiotic
argument. I've been having this argument for years, with many people, so,
please understand that it's not you that I'm upset with.

I'm upset with people who can't THINK about DETAILS, so they pick a SIMPLE
number as their indicator of quality.

Sure, price is a SIMPLE way to think about things.
So is warranty.

But neither is ANY indication whatsoever of quality.

Sure, some quality stuff costs more, but a LOT of things are overpriced
(e.g., lettuce at safeway, housing in California, HP ink cartridges, etc.).

None of those are high quality.

Here's the spec sheet, I think:
http://www.feit.com/documents/pdf/T4819_LEDIF_41K_SpecSheet.pdf

As far a lighting goes, that's a 100% meaningless spec sheet. It doesn't
even mention the CRI, which is guaranteed to be unspecified anywhere and
not controlled.

I agree with you that this so-called "spec" sheet was just marketing fluff.
But I had nothing better on the net.
That's why I asked.

> cheapest imported lighting would be the best description.

On the one hand, you realized the "spec" sheet was BS, but on the other
hand, you make quality decisions based on a single nearly meaningless
number, simply because it's easy to do.

SO I'm confused by your advice.

 

Phillips Advance : Ballasts
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/products/oem-components/fluorescent-ballasts.html

Their USA Corporate HQ are near O'Hare Airport (Chicago).
Almost all of the Ace Hardware stores (especially the Industrial ones) in Chicago area (Ace HQ also)
carry the Phillips ballasts or can order.

g. beat
chicago

 

[w9gb]

How to Buy: T8 and T12 LED Fluorescent Replacement Tubes
Posted by EarthLED News on Jun 03, 2015

Choosing the right LED fluorescent replacement tubes can be confusing due to the myriad of product types and installation options.
We at EarthLED.com have created this guide to assist in the process and help you make the right choice for your specific projects.
https://www.earthled.com/blogs/light-2-0-the-earthled-blog-led-lighting-news-tips-reviews/33135492-how-to-buy-t8-and-t12-led-fluorescent-replacement-tubes

Currently, there are four types of options available in the market:

1.) Ballast Bypass or Direct Wire LED Fluorescent Replacement Tubes

2.) T8 Electronic Ballast Compatible LED Fluorescent Replacement Tubes

3.) Hybrid (T8 Electronic Ballast Compatible / T8 or T12 Ballast Bypass LED) Fluorescent Replacement Tubes

4.) Universal (T8 Electronic or T12 Magnetic) Ballast Compatible LED Fluorescent Replacement Tubes

 

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.repair Bill Moinihan <moi@example.com> wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

We can deduce they were made good enough to last a couple decades.

Good point, in that they were made well enough to last for probably 30
years.

yes, what you paid for them, and the fact there's no real spec sheet on
them.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
What you paid is NEVER an indication of quality.

Yeah, break that light open and find it packed with the finest components,
and the best of design coupled with the best of constuction and quality
control.

I can give you hundreds of examples which nullify instantly that idiotic
argument. I've been having this argument for years, with many people, so,
please understand that it's not you that I'm upset with.

Like I said above. I can't wait to see the teardown of the first unit to
fail. This should only take a month.

I'm upset with people who can't THINK about DETAILS, so they pick a SIMPLE
number as their indicator of quality.

Sure, price is a SIMPLE way to think about things.
So is warranty.

But neither is ANY indication whatsoever of quality.

Yup, no indication at all.

Sure, some quality stuff costs more, but a LOT of things are overpriced
(e.g., lettuce at safeway, housing in California, HP ink cartridges, etc.).

None of those are high quality.

Here's the spec sheet, I think:
http://www.feit.com/documents/pdf/T4819_LEDIF_41K_SpecSheet.pdf

As far a lighting goes, that's a 100% meaningless spec sheet. It doesn't
even mention the CRI, which is guaranteed to be unspecified anywhere and
not controlled.

I agree with you that this so-called "spec" sheet was just marketing fluff.
But I had nothing better on the net.
That's why I asked.

cheapest imported lighting would be the best description.

On the one hand, you realized the "spec" sheet was BS, but on the other
hand, you make quality decisions based on a single nearly meaningless
number, simply because it's easy to do.

SO I'm confused by your advice.

My advice is simple.

If somebody has LED lighting efficiency boner, and wants to save money buy
a new light fixture. Don't retrofit stuff made during the Reagan
administration with the most bogus of retrofit kits ever imagined.

The fact that fiet eletric admits that the lights have no regulation and
just burn out faster in exactly the place people might install them speaks
for itself about the integrity of the product.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

gregory.beat@gmail.com wrote:

Phillips Advance : Ballasts
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/products/oem-components/fluorescent-ballasts.html

Their USA Corporate HQ are near O'Hare Airport (Chicago).
Almost all of the Ace Hardware stores (especially the Industrial ones) in Chicago area (Ace HQ also)
carry the Phillips ballasts or can order.

g. beat
chicago

They used to be made on Western ave by Belmont until 20 or so years ago
too. It's sort of amazing the plant never became a superfund site.