In Europe: The great CFL rip-off.

[ian field]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers. Sheesh!
What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my bathrooms. Not
only do they STILL deliver more light than the incandescents they replaced
(measured with a light meter and a spare incandescent), they use less than
30% of the energy, haven't had to be replaced (previous lamps lasted around
6 months) and have similar colour balance. My only complaint is the slow
(about 45 second) warm up time in the middle of Winter.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only CFL failure was when a possum sat on
a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every fitting that will take
them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs, when
they sort out the high power problems, should adress those issues nicely.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[F Murtz]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers. Sheesh!
What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my bathrooms. Not
only do they STILL deliver more light than the incandescents they replaced
(measured with a light meter and a spare incandescent), they use less than
30% of the energy, haven't had to be replaced (previous lamps lasted around
6 months) and have similar colour balance. My only complaint is the slow
(about 45 second) warm up time in the middle of Winter.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only CFL failure was when a possum sat on
a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every fitting that will take
them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs, when
they sort out the high power problems, should adress those issues nicely.


A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non

vented oyster fittings

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a9c7ad9$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to be
replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have similar colour
balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45 second) warm up time in
the middle of Winter.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only CFL failure was when a possum sat
on a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every fitting that will
take them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs, when
they sort out the high power problems, should adress those issues nicely.


A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non vented
oyster fittings

**Then you have several choices:

* Stockpile a handful of incandescents.
* Choose another fitting.
* Buy one of the newer halogens, which the gummint seems to think are OK.

One of my light fittings won't take a CFL either. I don't use it.

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt halogen
downlights. I rarely use them too. Dumbest light fitting ever designed.
Well, it's OK for lighting a specific workspace (like the kitchen sink), but
that's about it. How on Earth designers thought they'd be a good idea for
space lighting is beyond belief.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson

A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non
vented oyster fittings

**Then you have several choices:

* Stockpile a handful of incandescents.

** Barley any of them are now left on sale - particularly scare are the BC
fiting kind.

* Buy one of the newer halogens, which the gummint seems to think are OK.

** Will be banned from sale within 2 years.

One of my light fittings won't take a CFL either. I don't use it.

** Shame when the whole damn place is full of such fittings.

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt halogen
downlights. I rarely use them too. Dumbest light fitting ever designed.
Well, it's OK for lighting a specific workspace (like the kitchen sink),
but that's about it. How on Earth designers thought they'd be a good idea
for space lighting is beyond belief.

** Folk are still installing them now

- despite the fact they are ear marked to be banned within a very few
years.

Everything about the way CFLs are being made compulsory is a scam and a
scandal.

May all the lunatic greenies burn in hell for it.




..... Phil

 

[David L. Jones]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/
Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Exactly.

I now have them in every fitting that will take them.

Same here.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs, when
they sort out the high power problems, should adress those
issues nicely.

Yep.
Until then I like my CFL's. Not perfect, but more than good enough for me to
replace every light in my house with them.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[David L. Jones]

F Murtz wrote:

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to
be replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have similar
colour balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45 second) warm
up time in the middle of Winter. Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only
CFL failure was when a
possum sat on a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every
fitting that will take them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs,
when they sort out the high power problems, should adress those
issues nicely.
A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non
vented oyster fittings

Not always true, but yeah, it's an issue. I've got plenty of poorly
ventilated oysters that don't give me any trouble. And the ridiculous
variety of tiny CFL's available these days means there is one to fit almost
any fitting.
The ones that did give me poor life and/or light output I replaced with T5
circular fluoro fittings and the light output is much better and more even,
and they run cooler in the non ventilated fittings. Can't comment on life,
as I haven't had to replace any yet.

Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[David L. Jones]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a9c7ad9$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to
be replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have
similar colour balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45
second) warm up time in the middle of Winter.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only CFL failure was when a
possum sat on a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every
fitting that will take them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs,
when they sort out the high power problems, should adress those
issues nicely.
A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non
vented oyster fittings

**Then you have several choices:

* Stockpile a handful of incandescents.
* Choose another fitting.
* Buy one of the newer halogens, which the gummint seems to think are
OK.
One of my light fittings won't take a CFL either. I don't use it.

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt halogen
downlights. I rarely use them too. Dumbest light fitting ever
designed. Well, it's OK for lighting a specific workspace (like the
kitchen sink), but that's about it. How on Earth designers thought
they'd be a good idea for space lighting is beyond belief.

They are/were a good idea on the basis of looks, that's why they got to be
so trendy and every new McMansion was filled with hundreds (no exaggeration)
of them.
It was all part of the "lifestyle" housing boom. You can now get recessed
CFL fittings of all sorts, designed for that same look.

My house had a dozens of them when I moved in, they were the first things to
be ripped out.

Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[Sylvia Else]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers. Sheesh!
What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my bathrooms. Not
only do they STILL deliver more light than the incandescents they replaced
(measured with a light meter and a spare incandescent), they use less than
30% of the energy, haven't had to be replaced (previous lamps lasted around
6 months) and have similar colour balance. My only complaint is the slow
(about 45 second) warm up time in the middle of Winter.

The issue is one of claimed equivalence. Clearly there's no difficulty
in getting a CFL that's as bright as a given incandescent. But the
equivalence claims on the boxes leave a lot to be desired, and do rather
overstate the light output.

Sylvia.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00185fdc$0$7904$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/

**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to be
replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have similar colour
balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45 second) warm up time in
the middle of Winter.

The issue is one of claimed equivalence. Clearly there's no difficulty in
getting a CFL that's as bright as a given incandescent. But the
equivalence claims on the boxes leave a lot to be desired, and do rather
overstate the light output.

**Some MAY do. I've measured the light output of the ones I have (I only buy
premium Philips branded ones now) are the equal or better than the
incadescents they replaced (of the claimed Wattage on the box). In one of my
applications, the CFLs actually deliver more light into the corners of the
room than the incadescents (I try to measure the light output in several
parts of the room). I did pick up some of those El CheapoT types once. They
are (or were) crap. They certainly have a colour balance that I find
particularly unnattractive. The Philips ones are much nicer they deliver the
goods.

I suggest you buy some premium types next time. Forget the cheapies. They
are crap. Actually, I just recall that I do have a couple of cheapies
(Nelson branded) PAR38 floods. They take forever to warm up and the light
output is very hard. Since they're in the backyard and rarely used, it
doesn't matter so much. Still, when they're on, they do the job, consume 24
Watts (compared to 150 Watts with the incandescents they replaced) and they
have lasted quite well so far.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"GeoffC" <Youremail@xdfyh.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C79950B534C9nospamnospam@85.214.113.135...

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt
halogen downlights.

You can get 35watt replacements, not a bad compromise.

**It's a crap compromise. They're very expensive and only marginally more
efficient. Even so, my point was the innappropriate use of downlights, not
the total power consumption per se.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[GeoffC]

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt
halogen downlights.

You can get 35watt replacements, not a bad compromise.

 

[GeoffC]

a scam and a scandal.

May all the lunatic greenies burn in hell for it.

Amen to that!

 

[F Murtz]

David L. Jones wrote:

F Murtz wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/
**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to
be replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have similar
colour balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45 second) warm
up time in the middle of Winter. Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only
CFL failure was when a
possum sat on a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every
fitting that will take them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs,
when they sort out the high power problems, should adress those
issues nicely.
A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non
vented oyster fittings

Not always true, but yeah, it's an issue. I've got plenty of poorly
ventilated oysters that don't give me any trouble. And the ridiculous
variety of tiny CFL's available these days means there is one to fit almost
any fitting.

As long as you don't want any light out of them.

The ones that did give me poor life and/or light output I replaced with T5
circular fluoro fittings and the light output is much better and more even,
and they run cooler in the non ventilated fittings. Can't comment on life,
as I haven't had to replace any yet.

Dave.

 

[KR]

On Sep 1, 12:07 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Trevor Wilson



A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non
vented oyster fittings

**Then you have several choices:

* Stockpile a handful of incandescents.

**  Barley any of them are now left on sale - particularly scare are the BC
fiting kind.

* Buy one of the newer halogens, which the gummint seems to think are OK.

** Will be banned from sale within 2 years.

One of my light fittings won't take a CFL either. I don't use it.

** Shame when the whole damn place is full of such fittings.

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt halogen
downlights. I rarely use them too. Dumbest light fitting ever designed.
Well, it's OK for lighting a specific workspace (like the kitchen sink),
but that's about it. How on Earth designers thought they'd be a good idea
for space lighting is beyond belief.

**  Folk are still installing them now

 -  despite the fact they are ear marked to be banned within a very few
years.

Everything about the way CFLs are being made compulsory is a scam and a
scandal.

May all the lunatic greenies burn in hell for it.

....  Phil

Everything related to "environment" qualifies as a scam and scandal.
Cut out their welfare, make the bastards do real work, and see how
they cope.


Saw 2 of these feral deadshits outside the bank this morning wanting
donations and talking about
such bullshit. I felt like going into the IGA next door, buying a
bar of soap and "donating" it, but felt I had better
things to do with my money.

 

[keithr]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a9c7ad9$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/
**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to be
replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have similar colour
balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45 second) warm up time in
the middle of Winter.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only CFL failure was when a possum sat
on a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every fitting that will
take them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs, when
they sort out the high power problems, should adress those issues nicely.


A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non vented
oyster fittings

**Then you have several choices:

* Stockpile a handful of incandescents.
* Choose another fitting.
* Buy one of the newer halogens, which the gummint seems to think are OK.

One of my light fittings won't take a CFL either. I don't use it.

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt halogen
downlights. I rarely use them too. Dumbest light fitting ever designed.
Well, it's OK for lighting a specific workspace (like the kitchen sink), but
that's about it. How on Earth designers thought they'd be a good idea for
space lighting is beyond belief.

Our main lighting is 3 50 watt halogens in the living room. Ordinary
globes and CFLs won't work because of a very high ceiling (3.5 metres on
one side), the light from the halogens focussed into the area where we
sit in the evening. The lights are on from about 6pm in the winter 8pm
in the summer to about 11pm, ie at worst 750watt hours per day. Using
CFLs would save at most 500watt hours per day, probably less. If LEDs
ever become available at reasonable cost, I'll consider them, but CFLs
just don't cut it and the savings are quite minor.

Now, when the hot water system blew up 6 months back, I replaced it with
a heat pump system. After the government rebates it cost less than a
conventional electric system. The 2 electric bills that I have had since
it was installed showed a savings of 7.5 and 5.0 Kw hours per day. Now
that is real savings both in my pocket and for the environment.

 

[keithr]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"GeoffC" <Youremail@xdfyh.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C79950B534C9nospamnospam@85.214.113.135...
I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt
halogen downlights.
You can get 35watt replacements, not a bad compromise.

**It's a crap compromise. They're very expensive and only marginally more
efficient. Even so, my point was the innappropriate use of downlights, not
the total power consumption per se.

In my last house, I replaced the 2 60 watt lights in the corridor with a
pair of 35 watt wide angle halogens didn't save quite as much as using
CFLs, but they looked a lot better and since they were on for less than
30 minutes a day, the power savings would have been negligible.

 

[keithr]

David L. Jones wrote:

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/
Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Exactly.

I now have them in every fitting that will take them.

Same here.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs, when
they sort out the high power problems, should adress those
issues nicely.

Yep.
Until then I like my CFL's. Not perfect, but more than good enough for me to
replace every light in my house with them.

Dave.

If you like them, fine, but for many lights, eg closets, bathrooms etc,

they just aren't used enough to make any real savings.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"keithr" <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a9cf119$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"GeoffC" <Youremail@xdfyh.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C79950B534C9nospamnospam@85.214.113.135...
I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt
halogen downlights.
You can get 35watt replacements, not a bad compromise.

**It's a crap compromise. They're very expensive and only marginally more
efficient. Even so, my point was the innappropriate use of downlights,
not the total power consumption per se.

In my last house, I replaced the 2 60 watt lights in the corridor with a
pair of 35 watt wide angle halogens didn't save quite as much as using
CFLs, but they looked a lot better and since they were on for less than
30 minutes a day, the power savings would have been negligible.

**Which is why I have yet to change my downlights yet. I use them only very
intermittantly. Still, I've had to replace halogen lamps. Never had to
replace a CFL. Well, except for the ill-fated possum lamp. Possum vs. CFL.
CFL came out second best.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"keithr" <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a9cefde$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a9c7ad9$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B%Vmm.26315$6W1.14456@newsfe05.ams2...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/euro-chiefs-dim-view-of-eco-bulbs-115875-21636908/
**The only accurate point in that beat-up was the one about dimmers.
Sheesh! What a load of complete bollocks. My oldest CFLs are in my
bathrooms. Not only do they STILL deliver more light than the
incandescents they replaced (measured with a light meter and a spare
incandescent), they use less than 30% of the energy, haven't had to be
replaced (previous lamps lasted around 6 months) and have similar
colour balance. My only complaint is the slow (about 45 second) warm up
time in the middle of Winter.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. My only CFL failure was when a possum
sat on a naked lamp in the garage. I now have them in every fitting
that will take them.

Having said all that, I agree that CFLs are far from perfect. LEDs,
when they sort out the high power problems, should adress those issues
nicely.


A lot won't fit in oyster fittings, if they do they overheat in non
vented oyster fittings

**Then you have several choices:

* Stockpile a handful of incandescents.
* Choose another fitting.
* Buy one of the newer halogens, which the gummint seems to think are OK.

One of my light fittings won't take a CFL either. I don't use it.

I also have a bunch of incredibly stupid, wasteful 50 Watt halogen
downlights. I rarely use them too. Dumbest light fitting ever designed.
Well, it's OK for lighting a specific workspace (like the kitchen sink),
but that's about it. How on Earth designers thought they'd be a good idea
for space lighting is beyond belief.

Our main lighting is 3 50 watt halogens in the living room. Ordinary
globes and CFLs won't work because of a very high ceiling (3.5 metres on
one side), the light from the halogens focussed into the area where we sit
in the evening. The lights are on from about 6pm in the winter 8pm in the
summer to about 11pm, ie at worst 750watt hours per day. Using CFLs would
save at most 500watt hours per day, probably less. If LEDs ever become
available at reasonable cost, I'll consider them, but CFLs just don't cut
it and the savings are quite minor.

Now, when the hot water system blew up 6 months back, I replaced it with a
heat pump system. After the government rebates it cost less than a
conventional electric system. The 2 electric bills that I have had since
it was installed showed a savings of 7.5 and 5.0 Kw hours per day. Now
that is real savings both in my pocket and for the environment.

**I've done some back-of-the-napkin calcs on the hot water system thing and
if I swap my off-peak system out, I'll lose big time. I don't have my bill
close to hand, but I usually pay around $20.00/quarter for hot water.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au