How does crimping work?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <d3n8h59kal7te33ioo1jkvrnetlcfjtqd1@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

Cite a reference.

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <00903a8b$0$23492$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

The crimp wire squishes the corners of the pin so intensely,
that a gas-tight connection forms, 4 for each winding.

I think you're referring to wire wrapping, which is something else.

It's the case too with a properly made crimp. Which very few are outside
of the factory. There's no such thing as a universal crimp tool - each
connector and cable requires a special for the very best results.

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:00cd76f9$0$32362$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

Rich Webb wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:54:12 +1100, Sylvia Else
sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

The obvious answer is that you bend the metal of the connector so that
it holds the wire in place.

This doesn't seem very satisfactory. Metal always retains some
flexibility, even when bent beyond its yield point. No matter how hard
you squeeze, there'll be some rebound when you release the pressure,
which should result in a loose joint.

After having had a bad experience trying to crip a lug some years ago, I
recently faced the need to do this again. So I bought a moderately
expensive ratchet based crimping tool. And, rather to my surprise, it
actually works.

But that doesn't answer the question of how.

Because the wire bundle inside the crimp also rebounds?

It probably does, but the wide bundle is being subject to compression,
whereas the connector is subject to both compression and bending. I'd
expect a certain degree of unbending when the compression is released.

Sylvia.

There may be some expansion on release of the crimping pressure but the
interior of the crimp junction is still under pressure.

Regards ........ Rheilly P

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2009-11-30, PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:56:29 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

In article <4b13f3e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article<4b13c243$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
F Murtz<haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote:
Usually the conductor is the same metal as the lug, it will have the
same memory so if it is all squished it should stay there.Expanding
and contracting in use at the same rate. (maybe)

Most connectors are brass - to give more strength. Cable usually
copper.

crimp lugs are usually copper for copper wire

Perhaps lug means some special terminal in the US?

But most of the crimped terminals you come across - like say in a car or
computer - are brass, but sometimes plated.

Cite a reference.

http://nz.farnell.com/tyco-electronics-amp/0-0165536-1/crimp-terminal-pidg-faston-positive/dp/4215631

 

[F Murtz]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article
b06cb5a9-8c0d-4d8e-a980-5ddef60712af@p19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
whit3rd<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
Depends on the use. I'd say the most common crimp terminals are in some
form of spring loaded contact. And those tend to be made of brass

Phosphor bronze or beryllium copper are the springy metals in common
use (it may LOOK like brass...).

Could well be - I've not had it analyzed. But it certainly doesn't look
like copper. ;-)
Of course it could be all these sort of things are copper in the US. I can
only speak for the ones I'm familiar with in the UK.

Spade connectors have to have different properties to lugs because they

rely on spring tension for electrical continuity but proper bolt on lugs
are usually copper for copper cables, aluminium for aluminium cables.

http://www.zeetaelectricals.com/

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<b06cb5a9-8c0d-4d8e-a980-5ddef60712af@p19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

Depends on the use. I'd say the most common crimp terminals are in some
form of spring loaded contact. And those tend to be made of brass

Phosphor bronze or beryllium copper are the springy metals in common
use (it may LOOK like brass...).

Could well be - I've not had it analyzed. But it certainly doesn't look
like copper. ;-)
Of course it could be all these sort of things are copper in the US. I can
only speak for the ones I'm familiar with in the UK.

--
*It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50c291ea81dave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <d3n8h59kal7te33ioo1jkvrnetlcfjtqd1@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:
Cite a reference.

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Good grief... Cite a reference.. How is a reference better than actually
having the item in hand. I say the reference is any piece of equipment that
has crimps in it. Anyhow.. Someone happened to cite the needed info..

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4b14f559$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
b06cb5a9-8c0d-4d8e-a980-5ddef60712af@p19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
whit3rd<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
Depends on the use. I'd say the most common crimp terminals are in
some form of spring loaded contact. And those tend to be made of
brass

Phosphor bronze or beryllium copper are the springy metals in common
use (it may LOOK like brass...).

Could well be - I've not had it analyzed. But it certainly doesn't
look like copper. ;-) Of course it could be all these sort of things
are copper in the US. I can only speak for the ones I'm familiar with
in the UK.

Spade connectors have to have different properties to lugs because they
rely on spring tension for electrical continuity but proper bolt on lugs
are usually copper for copper cables, aluminium for aluminium cables.

Yes - I did ask if 'lug' had a special meaning in this context.

http://www.zeetaelectricals.com/

I just sort of assumed the discussion was more about electronic terminals
than heavy duty power distribution. Hence my reference to computers, etc.

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Sylvia Else wrote:

The obvious answer is that you bend the metal of the connector so that
it holds the wire in place.

This doesn't seem very satisfactory. Metal always retains some
flexibility, even when bent beyond its yield point. No matter how hard
you squeeze, there'll be some rebound when you release the pressure,
which should result in a loose joint.

After having had a bad experience trying to crip a lug some years ago, I
recently faced the need to do this again. So I bought a moderately
expensive ratchet based crimping tool. And, rather to my surprise, it
actually works.

But that doesn't answer the question of how.

Sylvia.

BTW, I'm seeing huge variation between lug types (same colour -
different brand). I bought some fully insulated ones - and could pull
them all off with no difficulty. The ones I had in my stock from way
back either failed by tearing the conductor - or had a strength
exceeding mine, and didn't fail.

At least there was some consistency - lugs out of the same box performed
the same as each other.

The crimping tool has a 'pressure' setting, but comes with no guidance
on how to decide which pressure to use.

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Nov 30, 10:54 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

The obvious answer is that you bend the metal of the connector so that
it holds the wire in place.

This doesn't seem very satisfactory. Metal always retains some
flexibility, even when bent beyond its yield point. No matter how hard
you squeeze, there'll be some rebound when you release the pressure,
which should result in a loose joint.

After having had a bad experience trying to crip a lug some years ago, I
recently faced the need to do this again. So I bought a moderately
expensive ratchet based crimping tool. And, rather to my surprise, it
actually works.

But that doesn't answer the question of how.

Sylvia.

The ratchet tool provides substantial mechanical advantage compared to
many of the cheap tools, and therefore enormous pressure on the
joint. With the right tool, the joint is squashed down by the exact
amount, whereas cheap hand tools are more "hit and miss" as to whether
you have applied the right pressure to them. the "die" is also a lot
better on ones that I have seen, and probably designed to put the
pressure in the exact right places at the right time during the crimp.
(ie, more efficient use of the energy you apply with your hands)

As the metal parts of the surface being crimped are squashed really
hard by the tool, they probably heat up (compression causes heat, and
metals expand with heat,), and then shrink as they cool, tightening on
the wire ?.

 

[PeterD]

On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:47:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

In article <d3n8h59kal7te33ioo1jkvrnetlcfjtqd1@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:
Cite a reference.

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

OK, so clearly you don't have a clue, no evidence or facts to base
your lame assertion on, so...

 

[PeterD]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:13:21 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com>
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50c291ea81dave@davenoise.co.uk...
In article <d3n8h59kal7te33ioo1jkvrnetlcfjtqd1@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:
Cite a reference.

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Good grief... Cite a reference..

I've asked several times, and he's avoided doing so. Mainly because
he's off on cloud nine, with no idea what he's talking about.

I suspect everyone else knows that bronze is much too brittle to use
as a crimp on connector, but Dave hasn't gotten that far yet.

How is a reference better than actually
having the item in hand. I say the reference is any piece of equipment that
has crimps in it. Anyhow.. Someone happened to cite the needed info..

 

[F Murtz]

PeterD wrote:

On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:13:21 +0900, "Michael Kennedy"<mike@nospam.com
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)"<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50c291ea81dave@davenoise.co.uk...
In article<d3n8h59kal7te33ioo1jkvrnetlcfjtqd1@4ax.com>,
PeterD<peter2@hipson.net> wrote:
Cite a reference.

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Good grief... Cite a reference..

I've asked several times, and he's avoided doing so. Mainly because
he's off on cloud nine, with no idea what he's talking about.

I suspect everyone else knows that bronze is much too brittle to use
as a crimp on connector, but Dave hasn't gotten that far yet.

How is a reference better than actually
having the item in hand. I say the reference is any piece of equipment that
has crimps in it. Anyhow.. Someone happened to cite the needed info..

It is possible that some spade connectors are made out of phosphor

bronze (especially the ones used in heating devices like stove elements)
but the discussion was about crimp lugs

 

[Rich Webb]

On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:11:01 -0500, PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:13:21 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50c291ea81dave@davenoise.co.uk...
In article <d3n8h59kal7te33ioo1jkvrnetlcfjtqd1@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:
Cite a reference.

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Good grief... Cite a reference..

I've asked several times, and he's avoided doing so. Mainly because
he's off on cloud nine, with no idea what he's talking about.

I suspect everyone else knows that bronze is much too brittle to use
as a crimp on connector, but Dave hasn't gotten that far yet.

Somebody probably ought to let the manufacturers know about that!
<http://documents.tycoelectronics.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1775442&DocType=CD&DocLang=EN>
<http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e54300012.pdf>
<http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/503948100_sd.pdf>
.... and lots of others, of course.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <0090e117$0$23709$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

BTW, I'm seeing huge variation between lug types (same colour -
different brand). I bought some fully insulated ones - and could pull
them all off with no difficulty. The ones I had in my stock from way
back either failed by tearing the conductor - or had a strength
exceeding mine, and didn't fail.

If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types available in
a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable sizes
catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the crimp
tools. Some seem to be made out of 'silver' foil. But even with the best,
it's interesting to cut off the insulation after crimping and examine the
quality of the crimp, especially at the bottom end of the range catered
for. To me, the only really satisfactory crimp is the type that forms a
heart shaped cross section after crimping - and those don't.

At least there was some consistency - lugs out of the same box performed
the same as each other.

The crimping tool has a 'pressure' setting, but comes with no guidance
on how to decide which pressure to use.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <jq8ah5t73r391tcsm4ohmk8tv61u7e4dqv@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

Try cutting one open.

That tells you nothing about the metal... Again, cite a reference.

Do you know the colour of copper?

OK, so clearly you don't have a clue, no evidence or facts to base
your lame assertion on, so...

I know what copper looks like. Clearly, you don't.

--
*How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <5s8ah5hnh5ivj5d62cbjjrolqggu3h7tj9@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

Good grief... Cite a reference..

I've asked several times, and he's avoided doing so. Mainly because
he's off on cloud nine, with no idea what he's talking about.

I suspect everyone else knows that bronze is much too brittle to use
as a crimp on connector, but Dave hasn't gotten that far yet.

So we can add bronze to brass as metals you can't tell the difference from
copper?

--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article <0090e117$0$23709$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
BTW, I'm seeing huge variation between lug types (same colour -
different brand). I bought some fully insulated ones - and could pull
them all off with no difficulty. The ones I had in my stock from way
back either failed by tearing the conductor - or had a strength
exceeding mine, and didn't fail.

If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types available in
a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable sizes
catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the crimp
tools.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525

The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an SLA, so
these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for
extraneous contact when they're in place.

Shame they perform so badly on the pull test.

Sylvia.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types available in
a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable sizes
catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the crimp
tools.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525

The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an SLA, so
these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for
extraneous contact when they're in place.

Shame they perform so badly on the pull test.

I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their stated
range.

I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate
insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:-

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php

Made of brass, strangely. ;-)

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Sylvia Else]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article <0073ddf9$0$8184$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
If by fully insulated you mean the red blue and yellow types available in
a variety of configurations - the colour determining the cable sizes
catered for - they vary wildly in quality by maker, as do the crimp
tools.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PT4525

The particular application is connecting to the terminals of an SLA, so
these connectors have the advantage of minimising the scope for
extraneous contact when they're in place.

Shame they perform so badly on the pull test.

I too have seen these red terminals pull off a cable within their stated
range.

I prefer non insulated 1/4 in spade connectors that have a separate
insulating cover. They have a better cable clamp too. This sort:-

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/terminalsnonins/noninsblades.php

Made of brass, strangely. ;-)

I've noticed what is probably a significant difference between the
failed lugs, and the other type that seem OK. It lies in the length of
the metal that gets crimped.

The tool I'm using is one of these:

http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4b15ceb90184983c273fc0a87e0106a4/Product/View/T3535

It seems designed to crimp equally* two locations spaced apart.

But the metal on the failed lugs is too short, and one side of the tool
is just crimping plastic.

[*] I emphasis "equally". Lest anyone think I've misunderstood, this is
not a tool designed to crimp the conductor and insulator in one go.

Sylvia.