How do we know when 120V US socket strip can handle Europe 2

On 18 May 2014 17:27:00 -0400, all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger)
wrote:

On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article llapsf$ncj$5@solani.org
JessieWilliams@is.invalid> (Jessie Williams) wrote:

But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked at
in the box stores.

That might be a problem.

If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know
whether a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European
power?

I think (unprooved!) that the double voltage at/in your strip will work
but:

1st You never know, maybe after some hours something may burn in the
strip.

2nd Don`t use a strip with pilot light. The light likely explodes and/or
burns. You should see/smell some magic smoke :]

Generally no smoke at all - just a little flash as the light puts a
lefetime of lumens into half a second of output.

3rd Don`t use a strip with switch. Likely the US switches are specified
for 110/127V. With german 230V you may run in trouble. Badly after some
hours of working aparently well. The firefighters/police will find the
reason! :[

Again, VERY unlikely to be a problem - and if it is, it won't be smoke
and fire - irt will be arking when opening or closing the switch.

MOST ac rated switches (every one I have in my small collection) are
"straight line" rated.
Double the voltage, half the current, to the insulation limit (which
is usually 600 volts) An example is a "microswitch" is rated at .3 amp
125 volts and .15 amps at 250 volts AC

YMMV



Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jessie Williams wrote:

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

If you need an outlet strip, buy one locally.

But, a local outlet strip will just multiply the problem in
the wrong direction, won't it?

No because you won't have a 120 volt outlet strip with 240 volts on it.
It sounds ok until someone accidentaly plugs in a 120 only device without
looking.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

 

On 18 May 2014 17:48:00 -0400, all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger)
wrote:

On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article Cu5xa4REQoB@allinger-307049.user.uni-berlin
all2001@spambog.com> (Wolfgang Allinger) wrote:

Ingrid says, look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country


There you will find voltage, frequency and plug of the IEC world

So Italy and Germany are likely equal. A plug Type C (CCC 7/16 Europlug)
will work in these countries and likely in whole continental Europe.

The british people/power is strange :]

However these C plugs are not polarized and have no earth. So you may
run in trouble with earthed devices from USA, maybe power to the housing


It`s better to use only special isolated devices. They show a double
lined quadratical box.


There is also something written about safety!


Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

All of the devices the OP intends to use are "double insulated" and
do not have exposed metal parts. (wall warts)

 

On Sun, 18 May 2014 17:58:44 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
wrote:

On Sun, 18 May 2014, Jessie Williams wrote:

Jessie Williams <JessieWilliams@is.invalid> wrote:

If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?

I don't think I made it clear, but I don't plan on bringing a
'converter' (which is, I think, a step-down device).

I'm hoping to just plug a "dumb" US power strip into European wall
outlets using only a "dumb" US-prong-to-Europe-pin plug adapter.

The question is whether the dumb US power strip will handle the
220 volts without melting or arcing.

Change your thinking.

Figure out what you are taking, and instead of AC adapters, get cables for
them. Since at this point most devices take 5V, you need cables with USB
at one end, and whatever at the other end (be it the multipin connector
for the iWhatever or a microUSB for that device or a microUSB for that
other device.

The cables will take up less space.

Once in Europe, get cheap AC adapters that put out 5v into USB at
appropriate amperage. If you don't need to charge them all, then you
don't need an AC adapter for each. Just plug in as needed. You can get
such adapters at the "Dollar stores" or European equivalent, though I'm
not sure i'd take that much of a risk, but you can find them around. IN
North America you can even get power bars wtih USB outlets for this sort
of thing included, though I don't know what kind of current they put out;
so theoretically you could just get a powerbar in Europe and use the USB
ports for charging with your cables.

My Blackberry Playbook Tablet AC adapter had gotten flakey (something
wasn't always making contact, I assume a bad connector), so I just pulled
out some scrap 5v 2amp AC adapter (that is a switching supply) and wired
in a dual-USB connector off a scrap motherboard. So now I have a good USB
charging station, just need cables between it and the various devices.

If I was going to Europe, I might check and see if I had any AC adapters
that worked on 240v, at which point I'd maybe add some more USB connectors
and take that, already for use in Europe except the AC plug is wrong.

Michael

The power bar works - and you KNOW your power adapters work. Buying
"cheap" adapters in europe you don't know what you have. (and you end
up with another pile of crap to store when you get home. The single
plug adapter is the lowest cost solution, and the least duplication
(which is why I have used it several times, and my daughter has used
it on her African sojurns - without any problems.

On the cruise ship I didn't even need the plug adapter as the plugs
were "universal" - took american flat blade as well as euro round pin
plugs - but all 240 volt only.

 

On Sun, 18 May 2014 23:24:46 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

Jessie Williams wrote:
I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit

Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),
I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
US power strip?

I am in Israel and we get all sorts of tourists and immegrants, bringing
all sorts of plugs, outlet strips and devices.

The Israeli standard is 230 volts, 50 Hz single phase. EU standard is
also, but there is enough variaition allowed that the UK 240v power grid
and the continental 220v power grid is within the specified 230 volts.

In my experience, the best thing to do is to what someone else already said,
buy high quality plug adaptors and use them. If you need an outlet strip,
buy one locally.

You should have no trouble finding them, unless you arrive at 3am Sunday
and all of the stores are closed.

Avoid the real cheap slide on 2 pin adaptors that are sold in travel
stores, airports, etc. They have a bad habit of sliding off as you unplug
the plug, leaving 230 volts exposed on the bare metal of your US plug.

The good adaptors look like cubes and will accept many different plugs,
including a US grounded plug. Unfortunately they do not always carry ground.
They need a fair amount of force to remove a plug.

Bring a roll of electrical tape, If you have to buy the slide on adaptors
you can tape them on so they don't slide off. Crude, but a lot safer.

Geoff.

The best arguement yet for buying ONE plug adapter and putting it on
the power bar. Get one that has the sideways plugs to accept numerous
wall warts side by side.

 

[Michael Black]

On Mon, 19 May 2014, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Jessie Williams wrote:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

If you need an outlet strip, buy one locally.

But, a local outlet strip will just multiply the problem in
the wrong direction, won't it?

No because you won't have a 120 volt outlet strip with 240 volts on it.
It sounds ok until someone accidentaly plugs in a 120 only device without
looking.

You're right. But his point is that if he buys the powerbar in Europe,
then he has to get the pin adapters for each of the AC adapters he plugs
into it.

He wants to buy one set of pin adapters, for the powerbar, then the North
American power bar will take all his existing ac adapters, "solving the
problem". Since they are North American, he needs the powerbar to plug
them into, but since they are switching supplies and apparently are all
able to run on 240V, they will be fine in Europe.

Michael

 

[Phil Allison]

<clare@snyder.on.ca>

If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?


I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run half as much
current on 240,

** Huh ?

Same current, as that rating depends on cable and conductor thicknesses.



..... Phil

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 5/18/2014 4:53 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:

But, I can't find any power strips at Home Depot or Lowes or Ace that
"says" it can handle the 240 volts.

It can handle 240. It is just 120 on each side.

 

[sms]

On 5/18/2014 10:15 AM, Jessie Williams wrote:

I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit

Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),
I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
US power strip?

It's easy to tell if a charger can handle the dual voltage because they
print that stuff on every charger.

But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked at
in the box stores.

If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know whether
a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz European power?

It will be much less current so it will work fine though if there's a
lighted switch it may not survive the higher voltage.

You could also just buy a universal power strip, i.e.
<http://www.dx.com/p/2500w-4-outlet-ac-electric-power-bar-strip-w-individual-switch-led-indicator-ac-250v-3m-cord-103853>
and put the proper plug on it.

 

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 18 May 14 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article N8OdnbJTgKwv_-TOnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@giganews.com
<esp@snet.net> (Ed Pawlowski) wrote:

On 5/18/2014 4:53 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:

But, I can't find any power strips at Home Depot or Lowes or Ace
that "says" it can handle the 240 volts.

It can handle 240.

It is just 120 on each side.

Not likely in Europe, the hot is 220..240V to the neutral.
Not the american crap 2x 120V 180°!


Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung!
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Michael Black wrote:

You're right. But his point is that if he buys the powerbar in Europe,
then he has to get the pin adapters for each of the AC adapters he plugs
into it.

That's relatively easy. Any hardware store, electrical store, DIY store,
etc will have them for about $2-$3 each. Here in Israel, they were $5 each
until we switched from 3 rectangular pins to 2 or 3 round pins on all our
plugs and sockets. The same adaptors can be used for the old plugs to the
new sockets and everyone needed lots of them and they went down in price.

He wants to buy one set of pin adapters, for the powerbar, then the North
American power bar will take all his existing ac adapters, "solving the
problem". Since they are North American, he needs the powerbar to plug
them into, but since they are switching supplies and apparently are all
able to run on 240V, they will be fine in Europe.

It will be fine until someone sees the outlet strip and thinks it is
120 volts and plugs in a 120 volt only device. I expect that a single
person, staying in single bed rooms will be ok, but anyone traveling
in a group, sharing their hotel room, or staying in a hostel is heading
for disaster.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run
half as much current on 240,

** Huh ?

What he's trying to say is that when a device is switched to 240 volts, it
draws only half as much current as it does on 120V.

 

[Jessie Williams]

dave <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Why not just take a single USB powered hub?

That might be a good idea.

I'm assuming you mean one of those all-in-one things
with three or so 2.1 amp USB ports plus three or so
3-pronged outlet receptacles.

That might work, but a lot depends on the geometry
because non-USB chargers and cpap have to get plugged
into it.

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwerck"

I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run
half as much current on 240,

** Huh ?

What he's trying to say is that when a device is switched to 240 volts, it
draws only half as much current as it does on 120V.

** It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic pedant pretend he
has a superior "theory of thought".

When the damn fool has none at all.





...... Phi

 

[dave]

On 05/19/2014 04:45 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"William Sommerwerck"

I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run
half as much current on 240,

** Huh ?

What he's trying to say is that when a device is switched to 240 volts, it
draws only half as much current as it does on 120V.

** It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic pedant pretend he
has a superior "theory of thought".

When the damn fool has none at all.





..... Phi


For the same amount of power...

Why not just take a single USB powered hub?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic
pedant pretend he has a superior "theory of thought".
When the damn fool has none at all.

Good! You're finally learning to be self-critical.

 

[Peter Gierschner]

Am 18.05.2014 20:24, schrieb whit3rd:

On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:15:59 AM UTC-7, Jessie Williams wrote:
I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the

Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit



Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger, etc.),

I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and then plug
those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage & frequency into that
US power strip?

England, Switzerland,and Germany have three different
plug designs; there isn't a single 'Europe' adapter.

Of course there is one which fits in nearly every european country
(except UK), its called EURO-Plug

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurostecker

Possible only for Equipment which doesn´t need ground connection

peter

 

[dpb]

On 5/18/2014 3:57 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:
....

I'm trying to figure out how I know whether the power strip
can handle the doubled voltage.

I've given you the link to the UL-listed solution.

The answer is that you _won't_ find an "ordinary" power strip w/ 125 VAC
US plugs that says it will handle 250V because the US plug of that
configuration is only UL-rated for 125V by US convention/code.

It is against NEC Code to use plugs for other than their rating; hence
manufacturers are _NOT_ going to market any device that doesn't conform
to NEMA/NEC/UL for the purpose. That means that any device w/ a 125 VAC
plug style in the US will be marked for 125V only. End of story.

<http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm#NEMA%20Configurations>

Now, we're back to the previous discussion -- is breakdown voltage in
practice greater than rated and does the device in question contain a
protective circuit that will "blow" when hit by the over-voltage and if
does, are you comfortable using it?

See other responses for my take on that one. I come back that if you're
not comfortable and not knowledgeable enough to be able to determine the
answers, use the approved route of the multiple-outlet adapter strip
showed previously or similar.

--

 

[Peter]

On 5/18/2014 1:15 PM, Jessie Williams wrote:

I plan on visiting Europe (Germany, Italy) this summer where the
Apple iPad US-to-Europe charger adapter is a whopping $40 each kit:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB974ZM/B/apple-world-travel-adapter-kit

Since I have other electronics (e.g., Android phone, camera charger,
etc.), I wonder if I can just bring a single US-to-Europe adapter and
then plug those US chargers that can handle the dual voltage &
frequency into that US power strip?

It's easy to tell if a charger can handle the dual voltage because
they print that stuff on every charger.

But I don't see it printed or molded on *any* power strips I looked
at in the box stores.

If I go the route of bringing a US power strip, how would I know
whether a US 120V 60Hz power strip could handle the 240V 50Hz
European power?

Many overseas hotels have few if any outlets. My wife and I use two
different dual voltage custom battery chargers for our cameras and two
dual voltage chargers for our tablets. Therefore, I need 4 plug
adapters (and 4 available outlets) to charge all 4 devices at the same
time. I've started traveling with 1 plug adapter, 1 six foot 16 gauge
120v extension cord with an unpolarized plug at one end and an
unpolarized triple socket at the other end, along with an old fashioned
screw-in lamp socket adapter that has a 120V plug socket on each side
before terminating in another lamp socket. I'm prepared for whatever I
find in the hotel room. The current the 4 devices draw is so low that
I'm not worried about overloading the 120V adapters and extension cords
with 240V service and on 3 recent trips, I haven't had a bit of trouble
with arcing and not a trace of warmth anywhere along any of my 120V
attachments. Obviously this setup is not to be used with hair dryers,
travel irons, or other devices that consume more than a few watts.

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker is an ASD fucked Moron.

I have done it numerous times. The bar will only run
half as much current on 240,

** Huh ?

What he's trying to say is that when a device is switched to 240 volts, it
draws only half as much current as it does on 120V.

** It's more than mildly hysterical watching an autistic pedant pretend he
has a superior "theory of thought".

When the trolling cunt has none at all.

Fuck off Bill, shut the fuck up and FUCK OFF !!




.... Phil