Help understanding voltage db vs power db.

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 7:51:44 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Ricky Cunthead is Crazy wrote:

=========================


** Never said "universally".

You lie universally...

"Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment."

"Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work"

Do you deny writing this???

** All = there are no excluded groups.

If you deal with personal information about people or businesses you must keep it private.

Oh, so it's not *all* government workers and it's not all of their work. It's just those "handling personal information about people".

** Your idotic words, not mine fuckhead.
------------------------------------

Just quoting you! If you say they are idiotic, I won't argue. After all, being your words, YOU should know idiotic when you see it.

FYI fuckhead:

When complaining about a post you MUST post under it, never reword or rephrase it and never remove the context.

** The lack of response here is deafening.
-----------------------------------------




are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper,


** Which is a totally IDIOTIC thing to post.

Because it shows you are wrong???


** LOL = Because it is fucking meaningless.

You think and reason like a dumb 15 year old, at best.

You are not welcome here, with all the adults.

FUCK OFF !!!!

Yes, by responding to you I do act like a 15 year old because no one else listens to the crap you spew.

** Question:

Are you by any chance a Sovereign Citizen ?

Cos you *sure* sound like one of those fucking lunatics.

No idiot fallacy, no matter how ridiculous, is left unturned in your mad thinking.

My "mad" thinking is just quoting what you wrote. Do you not understand that you are just insulting yourself???

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

Ricky C is a Sovereign Citizen nutcase :

=====================================

Oh, so it's not *all* government workers and it's not all of their work. It's just those "handling personal information about people".

** Your idiotic words, not mine fuckhead.
------------------------------------

Just quoting you!

** Anyone can see that claim is false.

** Question:

Are you by any chance a Sovereign Citizen ?

** Suspicious lack of reply here too.

Cos you *sure* sound like one of those fucking lunatics.

No idiot fallacy, no matter how ridiculous, is left unturned in your mad thinking.

My "mad" thinking is just quoting what you wrote.

** Funny how your "quotes" appear in your words and not mine.

You can cut and past or post under my words - no need to rephrase.

What you do is malicious misquoting.

Same as any other steaming, great, fuckwit troll infesting the internet.


Peeeeeukkkkeeeee ...


..... Phil

 

[Ricky C]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 12:49:10 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Ricky C is a Sovereign Citizen nutcase :

====================================
Oh, so it's not *all* government workers and it's not all of their work. It's just those "handling personal information about people".

** Your idiotic words, not mine fuckhead.
------------------------------------

Just quoting you!


** Anyone can see that claim is false.

You are as bad as Trumpie. The history is right here in the posts. I've even cut and pasted them for you so you don't have to go back and read them.

I guess you have gotten a bit too old to remember what you wrote, eh? I understand. We can't all stay young forever.

** Question:

Are you by any chance a Sovereign Citizen ?


** Suspicious lack of reply here too.



Cos you *sure* sound like one of those fucking lunatics.

No idiot fallacy, no matter how ridiculous, is left unturned in your mad thinking.

My "mad" thinking is just quoting what you wrote.



** Funny how your "quotes" appear in your words and not mine.

You can cut and past or post under my words - no need to rephrase.

What you do is malicious misquoting.

I don't need to quote. It's all there in the history of usenet. You can't deny the truth. Well, you can deny anything, but no one believes you because... you're Phil, the idiot savant. Mostly idiot because you don't post much technical compared to your rabid dog ravings. What I really like is that you are so obsessed with getting your last word in that as long as I reply, you will continue to reply. This is a game for me. Tag, you're it!

Oh, and read the history. You said exactly all those things you said. To paraphrase Yogi Berra.

--

Rick C.

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

Ricky C wrote:

================


** This dumb troll is obviously a Sovtard.

Entitled, misinformed, arrogant and reckless with any and all matters of fact.

Plus he will not properly identify himself or follow the usual posting rules.

So just another tedious, narcissistic, ASD fucked jerkoff.

Peeeeuukkkkeeeeee....


...... Phil

 

[Ricky C]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 1:35:45 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Ricky C wrote:

================


** This dumb troll is obviously a Sovtard.

Entitled, misinformed, arrogant and reckless with any and all matters of fact.

Plus he will not properly identify himself or follow the usual posting rules.

So just another tedious, narcissistic, ASD fucked jerkoff.

Peeeeuukkkkeeeeee....


..... Phil

That's what you do when you are totally backed into a corner, eh?

Just when I was getting bored with this, you bring it up another level of sniveling cowardice. Here is your quote again...

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 12:35:01 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> ** Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:00:52 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work,

This is all totally wrong and wrong and wrong. How many times are you going to deny you said it or that it is not wrong!!!???

You seem to be freaking out over this. Am I wrong?

What the hell is wrong with you?

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Prof78]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 1:02:18 PM UTC+1, amdx wrote:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

I'm confused after using this calculator.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculatorVoltagePower.htm

The first calculator labeled,
“ Find decibel voltage gain and ratio out/in by entering input and
output voltage:”
If I put 1 volt on the input line and 2 volts on the output line, the
calculator gives a 6db gain.

The second calculator labeled,
“Find decibel power gain and ratio out/in by entering before and after
power“
In order to enter power in Watts, I'll assume a 50 ohm system and
calculate power using
V^2/R=P. As above 1volt^2/50 =0.02 Watts for input power and 2^2/50=0.08
Watts for output power.
When I enter 0.02 and 0.08 into the second calculator, I get 6db power gain.

Back to the fact that I know, a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.

So, what am I doing wrong that I don't get 3db for the power?

Thanks for your time, Mikek

This thread seems to have rumbled on for some time generating much heat but little light. May I refer you to an application note 1MA98 from Rohde and Schwarz (https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98) entitled:
dB or not dB? [with a nod to Shakespeare and Hamlet Prince of Denmark]
Everything you ever wanted to know about decibels but were afraid to ask.
For a discussion of the wider use of 'dB' see:
Simons K. (1973): The dB Anything; Proc. IEEE 61, 495-496.
though this may be more difficult to access.

Scott.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2020-04-21 12:45, Prof78 wrote:
[Snip!]

This thread seems to have rumbled on for some time generating much
heat but little light. May I refer you to an application note 1MA98
from Rohde and Schwarz
(https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98)
entitled: dB or not dB? [with a nod to Shakespeare and Hamlet Prince
of Denmark] Everything you ever wanted to know about decibels but
were afraid to ask. For a discussion of the wider use of 'dB' see:
Simons K. (1973): The dB Anything; Proc. IEEE 61, 495-496. though
this may be more difficult to access.

Scott.

There's a bit missing from that R&S link. Here is it completed;
<https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98/1MA98_13e_dB_or_not_dB.pdf>.


It's 44 pages long, amazingly. I have an issue with section 5.2
too, but that's a bit off topic.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Don Kuenz]

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2020-04-21 12:45, Prof78 wrote:
[Snip!]


This thread seems to have rumbled on for some time generating much
heat but little light. May I refer you to an application note 1MA98
from Rohde and Schwarz
(https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98)
entitled: dB or not dB? [with a nod to Shakespeare and Hamlet Prince
of Denmark] Everything you ever wanted to know about decibels but
were afraid to ask. For a discussion of the wider use of 'dB' see:
Simons K. (1973): The dB Anything; Proc. IEEE 61, 495-496. though
this may be more difficult to access.

Scott.

There's a bit missing from that R&S link. Here is it completed;
https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98/1MA98_13e_dB_or_not_dB.pdf>.


It's 44 pages long, amazingly. I have an issue with section 5.2
too, but that's a bit off topic.

It's more on topic than the threads about politics. This short link was
posted by me a few days ago. It fits usenet better.

http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/appnote/1MA98

Besides _Hamlet_, there's a second nod to Dr. David Reuben's sex book.

About that issue in section 5.2, here's the things that catch my
attention.

1. Although it fleshes out thermal noise it ignores shot and flicker
noise.

2. It handwaves the input impedance away and drops the constant 4 when
it derives P = kTB from v.noise(rms) = v.n = (4kTRB)^0.5 V(rms)

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2020-04-21 18:17, Don Kuenz wrote:

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-21 12:45, Prof78 wrote: [Snip!]


This thread seems to have rumbled on for some time generating
much heat but little light. May I refer you to an application
note 1MA98 from Rohde and Schwarz
(https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98)


entitled: dB or not dB? [with a nod to Shakespeare and Hamlet Prince
of Denmark] Everything you ever wanted to know about decibels
but were afraid to ask. For a discussion of the wider use of 'dB'
see: Simons K. (1973): The dB Anything; Proc. IEEE 61, 495-496.
though this may be more difficult to access.

Scott.

There's a bit missing from that R&S link. Here is it completed;
https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98/1MA98_13e_dB_or_not_dB.pdf>.




It's 44 pages long, amazingly. I have an issue with section 5.2
too, but that's a bit off topic.

It's more on topic than the threads about politics. This short link
was posted by me a few days ago. It fits usenet better.

http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/appnote/1MA98

Besides _Hamlet_, there's a second nod to Dr. David Reuben's sex
book.

About that issue in section 5.2, here's the things that catch my
attention.

1. Although it fleshes out thermal noise it ignores shot and flicker
noise.

2. It handwaves the input impedance away and drops the constant 4
when it derives P = kTB from v.noise(rms) = v.n = (4kTRB)^0.5 V(rms)

Thank you,

Those weren't my issues. The maximum available noise power
from a resistor is indeed P=kTB, and that is in fact where the
commonly used formula Vn=sqrt(4kTRB) comes from. Not the other
way around.

My issue was the statement that the noise power at the input
of a receiver is -174dBm/Hz, which just isn't true. Nor is it
true that only cooled receiver input stages can do better.
I've done much better, even with ordinary room-temperature
circuitry.

But neither have anything to do with decibels per se. The note
is about decibels, not about noise.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Phil Allison]

Ricky C wrote:

---------------

** This dumb troll is obviously a Sovtard.

Entitled, misinformed, arrogant and reckless with any and all matters of fact.

Plus he will not properly identify himself or follow the usual posting rules.

So just another tedious, narcissistic, ASD fucked jerkoff.

Peeeeuukkkkeeeeee....



That's what you do when you are totally backed into a corner, eh?

** Just sick of arguing with an utter idiot.

Phil Allison wrote:

** Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:00:52 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work,

This is all totally wrong and wrong and wrong.

** So *you say* Govt employees are all welcome to reveal all and any private information they learn while doing their jobs ?

It would be totally INSANE to believe that.

Where does that leave you ????????

The original issue was what is and is not a conspiracy.

Govt employees keeping quite about their work is standard practise - they all know they must or face dismissal.

BTW:

You are a Sovereign Citizen - right ?

A childish, raving nut case anyhow.


...... Phil

 

[Ricky C]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:56:08 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Ricky C wrote:

---------------

** This dumb troll is obviously a Sovtard.

Entitled, misinformed, arrogant and reckless with any and all matters of fact.

Plus he will not properly identify himself or follow the usual posting rules.

So just another tedious, narcissistic, ASD fucked jerkoff.

Peeeeuukkkkeeeeee....



That's what you do when you are totally backed into a corner, eh?


** Just sick of arguing with an utter idiot.



Phil Allison wrote:

** Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:00:52 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work,

This is all totally wrong and wrong and wrong.

** So *you say* Govt employees are all welcome to reveal all and any private information they learn while doing their jobs ?

It would be totally INSANE to believe that.

Where does that leave you ????????

The original issue was what is and is not a conspiracy.

Govt employees keeping quite about their work is standard practise - they all know they must or face dismissal.

BTW:

You are a Sovereign Citizen - right ?

A childish, raving nut case anyhow.


..... Phil

Poor Phil. He literally can't face the fact that he is wrong. He has to turn his statement on his head to try to justify it. Unfortunately he doesn't understand the rules of logic to understand that what he thinks is the opposite is not. It's an entirely different statement so it is irrelevant to the issue.


Again and again and again Phil is alwayswrong.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 12:35:01 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> ** Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:00:52 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work,

Yup, hard to be any more wrong than Phil. Phil was born wrong.

--

Rick C.

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:02:10 AM UTC-4, Ricky C wrote:

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 1:35:45 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Ricky C wrote:

================


** This dumb troll is obviously a Sovtard.

Entitled, misinformed, arrogant and reckless with any and all matters of fact.

Plus he will not properly identify himself or follow the usual posting rules.

So just another tedious, narcissistic, ASD fucked jerkoff.

Peeeeuukkkkeeeeee....


..... Phil

That's what you do when you are totally backed into a corner, eh?

Getting backed into a corner in an internet debate.....now that is really scary

Just when I was getting bored with this, you bring it up another level of sniveling cowardice. Here is your quote again...

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 12:35:01 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
** Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 3:00:52 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work,

This is all totally wrong and wrong and wrong. How many times are you going to deny you said it or that it is not wrong!!!???

You seem to be freaking out over this. Am I wrong?

What the hell is wrong with you?

--

Rick C.

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John S]

On 4/21/2020 11:17 AM, Don Kuenz wrote:

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-21 12:45, Prof78 wrote:
[Snip!]


This thread seems to have rumbled on for some time generating much
heat but little light. May I refer you to an application note 1MA98
from Rohde and Schwarz
(https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98)
entitled: dB or not dB? [with a nod to Shakespeare and Hamlet Prince
of Denmark] Everything you ever wanted to know about decibels but
were afraid to ask. For a discussion of the wider use of 'dB' see:
Simons K. (1973): The dB Anything; Proc. IEEE 61, 495-496. though
this may be more difficult to access.

Scott.

There's a bit missing from that R&S link. Here is it completed;
https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_application/application_notes/1ma98/1MA98_13e_dB_or_not_dB.pdf>.


It's 44 pages long, amazingly. I have an issue with section 5.2
too, but that's a bit off topic.

It's more on topic than the threads about politics.

I absolutely love that comment!


This short link was

posted by me a few days ago. It fits usenet better.

http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/appnote/1MA98

Besides _Hamlet_, there's a second nod to Dr. David Reuben's sex book.

About that issue in section 5.2, here's the things that catch my
attention.

1. Although it fleshes out thermal noise it ignores shot and flicker
noise.

2. It handwaves the input impedance away and drops the constant 4 when
it derives P = kTB from v.noise(rms) = v.n = (4kTRB)^0.5 V(rms)

Thank you,