Help understanding voltage db vs power db.

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

-----------------------------------

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in

whit3rd needs to FUCK OFF

------------------------


After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that you
pull this shit and nobody filters you and they respond to you.

** Au contraire, over the years there have been many calls to "kill file" me and I am sure many have.

An evil practise now known as "de-platforming".

I call
one guy an asshole and the entire group filters me.

** The huge difference is my use of a real name and identity - maybe I get a modicum of respect in return.

FYI:

I have NEVER filtered anyone, cos I like to know what is happening AND especially what is being falsely claimed about me.

Be as silly as turning out the lights while surrounded by muggers.



...... Phil

 

[amdx]

On 4/18/2020 7:23 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

-----------------------------------
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in

whit3rd needs to FUCK OFF

------------------------


After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that you
pull this shit and nobody filters you and they respond to you.


** Au contraire, over the years there have been many calls to "kill file" me and I am sure many have.

An evil practise now known as "de-platforming".

I call
one guy an asshole and the entire group filters me.

** The huge difference is my use of a real name and identity - maybe I get a modicum of respect in return.

FYI:

I have NEVER filtered anyone, cos I like to know what is happening AND especially what is being falsely claimed about me.

Be as silly as turning out the lights while surrounded by muggers.



..... Phil

Many off us don't kill file you because you have a high technical
knowledge of interest to those using test equipment for testing and
repairs. It has zero to do with using your real name.
That said, your online personality just sucks, why you need to
degrade people rather than just correcting them or presenting the
facts as you see them is a character flaw.
Why would you kill file anyone, you need targets.
Mikek

 

[Don Kuenz]

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

<snip>

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

Note.

[1] The most common attenuators have values of 3 dB, 6 dB, 10 dB
and 20 dB. This corresponds to voltage ratios of 0.7, 0.5, 0.3
and 0.1 or power ratios of 0.5, 0.25, 0.1 and 0.01.
http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/appnote/1MA98


Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt. 6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

amdx wrote:

------------

** The huge difference is my use of a real name and identity - maybe I get a modicum of respect in return.

FYI:

I have NEVER filtered anyone, cos I like to know what is happening AND especially what is being falsely claimed about me.

Be as silly as turning out the lights while surrounded by muggers.





Many off us don't kill file you because you have a high technical
knowledge of interest to those using test equipment for testing and
repairs. It has zero to do with using your real name.

** You could not be more wrong abut that last claim.

That said, your online personality just sucks, why you need to
degrade people rather than just correcting them or presenting the
facts as you see them is a character flaw.

** Your question has a false assumption.

I correct people all the time and post the facts too.

Then, if they become defensive and act all aggressive - I have to right to shit all over them.

Fools can never learn about what they wrongly think they know already.

Fools have no right to post here at all.

And you are one of them.


..... Phil

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 7:50:56 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

I correct people all the time and post the facts too.

No you don't. Your argument is frequently just... zip.

In a recent thread you claimed federal government workers universally are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper, your reply included the articulate and persuasive points...

** Yawnnn...

*** and ***

** Your arrogant pig ignorance is your only point.


Yes, that is clearly posting "the facts".

I don't know what your particular mental disease is, but it's clear you are not of sound mind. So much that you literally can't have a civil conversation.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 10:46:49 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Ricky Childish is an IDIOT wrote:

=================================

Phil Allison wrote:

I correct people all the time and post the facts too.

No you don't.

** Yes I do - you stupid troll.


In a recent thread you claimed federal government workers universally


** Never said "universally".

You lie universally...

"Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment."

"Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work"

Do you deny writing this???

FYI fuckhead:

When complaining about a post you MUST post under it, never reword or rephrase it and never remove the context.


are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper,


** Which is a totally IDIOTIC thing to post.

Because it shows you are wrong???

** Your arrogant pig ignorance is your only point.


Yes, that is clearly posting "the facts".


** It's a damn good one too.

Fools like you never know that they are fools - so I am happy to remind them.

Then you need to talk to the mirror. That's the biggest fool. And a wrong fool. An alwayswrong fool.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Phil Allison]

Ricky Childish is an IDIOT wrote:

=================================

Phil Allison wrote:

I correct people all the time and post the facts too.

No you don't.

** Yes I do - you stupid troll.

In a recent thread you claimed federal government workers universally

** Never said "universally".

FYI fuckhead:

When complaining about a post you MUST post under it, never reword or rephrase it and never remove the context.


are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper,


** Which is a totally IDIOTIC thing to post.

** Your arrogant pig ignorance is your only point.


Yes, that is clearly posting "the facts".

** It's a damn good one too.

Fools like you never know that they are fools - so I am happy to remind them.



..... Phi l

 

[Phil Allison]

Ricky Childish is Fucking MORON !

====================================

In a recent thread you claimed federal government workers universally


** Never said "universally".

You lie universally...

"Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment."

"Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work"

Do you deny writing this???

** All = there are no excluded groups.

If you deal with personal information about people or businesses you must keep it private.

FYI fuckhead:

When complaining about a post you MUST post under it, never reword or rephrase it and never remove the context.


are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper,


** Which is a totally IDIOTIC thing to post.

Because it shows you are wrong???

** LOL = Because it is fucking meaningless.

You think and reason like a dumb 15 year old, at best.

You are not welcome here, with all the adults.

FUCK OFF !!!!


..... Phil

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 2:44:24 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

Ricky Childish is Fucking MORON !

====================================



In a recent thread you claimed federal government workers universally


** Never said "universally".

You lie universally...

"Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment."

"Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work"

Do you deny writing this???

** All = there are no excluded groups.

If you deal with personal information about people or businesses you must keep it private.

Oh, so it's not *all* government workers and it's not all of their work. It's just those "handling personal information about people". Ok, that's not what you said.

So YOU LIED!!! To paraphrase another poster. Who was that who would always talk about people LYING!

FYI fuckhead:

When complaining about a post you MUST post under it, never reword or rephrase it and never remove the context.


are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper,


** Which is a totally IDIOTIC thing to post.

Because it shows you are wrong???


** LOL = Because it is fucking meaningless.

You think and reason like a dumb 15 year old, at best.

You are not welcome here, with all the adults.

FUCK OFF !!!!

Yes, by responding to you I do act like a 15 year old because no one else listens to the crap you spew.

You were gone for a long time. Why did you come back? It used to be so peaceful without you. Kinda like the way the air is clearer without all the traffic.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Kuenz]

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt.
6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the
same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in
the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

This thread's semantical trap-doors are treacherous!

This time sloppy "signmanship," so to speak, causes confusion. Although
attenuation always implies the negative case, it helps to explicitly
include the negative sign.

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5
-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5
-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:09:35 AM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt.
6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the
same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in
the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

This thread's semantical trap-doors are treacherous!

This time sloppy "signmanship," so to speak, causes confusion. Although
attenuation always implies the negative case, it helps to explicitly
include the negative sign.

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5

-6dBV is a power level but you need to know the resistance that the system is relating dBV to. -3dBm is an absolute power level...0.5 mW

-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
These are not ratios. dB's are ratios.

> -6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5

dBs can be thought of as multiplies, not dBv's and dBm's

-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

dB system relates one thing to another. It helps to know one of those two things. dBms and dBV's are the known items. dBs is how you express a relationship of something to a known something.

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[Don Kuenz]

blocher@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:09:35 AM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:

<snip>

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5

-6dBV is a power level but you need to know the resistance that the system
is relating dBV to. -3dBm is an absolute power level...0.5 mW

-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
These are not ratios. dB's are ratios.

-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5

dBs can be thought of as multiplies, not dBv's and dBm's


-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

dB system relates one thing to another. It helps to know one of those
two things. dBms and dBV's are the known items. dBs is how you express
a relationship of something to a known something.

Let's try it this way:

A loss of 6 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of 0.5.
A loss of 3 dB corresponds to a power ratio of 0.5.

A gain of 6 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of 2.
A gain of 3 dB corresponds to a power ratio of 2.

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2020-04-20 16:09, Don Kuenz wrote:

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt.
6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the
same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in
the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

This thread's semantical trap-doors are treacherous!

This time sloppy "signmanship," so to speak, causes confusion. Although
attenuation always implies the negative case, it helps to explicitly
include the negative sign.

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5
-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5
-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

6dBV is not 2. It's 2V. Likewise, 3dBm is not 2. It's 2mW. You have to
keep your units straight.

Signal gains or losses are ratios, expressed in dB without suffix.
It would be OK to say that 3dB=2, but only if we were talking about
power gain. It'd be OK to say that 6dB=2, but only when referring
to voltage gain.

Just 6dBV = 3dBm is true only when the load impedance happens to
be 2kOhm.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Don Kuenz]

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

<snip>

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5
-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5
-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

6dBV is not 2. It's 2V. Likewise, 3dBm is not 2. It's 2mW. You have to
keep your units straight.

Signal gains or losses are ratios, expressed in dB without suffix.
It would be OK to say that 3dB=2, but only if we were talking about
power gain. It'd be OK to say that 6dB=2, but only when referring
to voltage gain.

Just 6dBV = 3dBm is true only when the load impedance happens to
be 2kOhm.

The hardest part of decibels for me isn't the math nor the mechanics of
grinding out answers. It's the precise nomenclature.

A loss of 6 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of 0.5.
A loss of 3 dB corresponds to a power ratio of 0.5.

A gain of 6 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of 2.
A gain of 3 dB corresponds to a power ratio of 2.

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2020-04-20 17:24, Don Kuenz wrote:

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

snip

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5
-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5
-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

6dBV is not 2. It's 2V. Likewise, 3dBm is not 2. It's 2mW. You have to
keep your units straight.

Signal gains or losses are ratios, expressed in dB without suffix.
It would be OK to say that 3dB=2, but only if we were talking about
power gain. It'd be OK to say that 6dB=2, but only when referring
to voltage gain.

Just 6dBV = 3dBm is true only when the load impedance happens to
be 2kOhm.

The hardest part of decibels for me isn't the math nor the mechanics of
grinding out answers. It's the precise nomenclature.

A loss of 6 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of 0.5.
A loss of 3 dB corresponds to a power ratio of 0.5.

A gain of 6 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of 2.
A gain of 3 dB corresponds to a power ratio of 2.

Thank you,

You nailed it.

Cheers,
Jeroen Belleman

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:09:35 AM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:

Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt.
6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the
same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in
the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

This thread's semantical trap-doors are treacherous!

This time sloppy "signmanship," so to speak, causes confusion. Although
attenuation always implies the negative case, it helps to explicitly
include the negative sign.

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5
-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5
-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

The problem is unless the impedances are specified these quantities are not equivalent. By using 1 volt or 1 mW as a reference, the scales are not pure ratios anymore but absolute measurements. So the equations above are not valid without clarification of the impedance.

Let me explain it this way. 6 dBV is not 2. It is 2 volts. 3 dBm is not 2 it is 2 mW. 2 volts is only 2 mW when driving a 2 kohm load. Is that more clear?

My previous post on this talked about impedance ratios as if the dBV and dBm were comparing two measurements. I had myself confused.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:27:38 AM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:09:35 AM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt.
6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the
same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in
the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

This thread's semantical trap-doors are treacherous!

This time sloppy "signmanship," so to speak, causes confusion. Although
attenuation always implies the negative case, it helps to explicitly
include the negative sign.

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5

-6dBV is a power level but you need to know the resistance that the system is relating dBV to. -3dBm is an absolute power level...0.5 mW

-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
These are not ratios. dB's are ratios.

-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5

dBs can be thought of as multiplies, not dBv's and dBm's


-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

dB system relates one thing to another. It helps to know one of those two things. dBms and dBV's are the known items. dBs is how you express a relationship of something to a known something.

Yes, exactly!

--

Rick C.

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 11:00:53 AM UTC-4, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

On 2020-04-20 16:09, Don Kuenz wrote:
Ricky C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 2:12:19 PM UTC-4, Don Kuenz wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2020-04-18 14:58, Don Kuenz wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

snip

Allow me to repeat the fact that you know, to wit:

The fact that I know: a 6db voltage gain is a 3db power gain.
If that is wrong set me straight.

That is correct.

Arggh! NO!

6dB is doubling the voltage and quadrupling the power.
3dB is sqrt(2) times the voltage and twice the power.

NEVER does 6dB equal 3dB.

Yes, you are quite correct. My original followup is a non sequitur
because it doesn't address gain. All it does is show that

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5 [1]

For a 6dBV level into 50 Ohms, V = 2V and P = V^2 / R = 80mW. For a
3dBm level P = 2mW.

I'm not following you at all.

dBV is using a specific voltage as a reference, specifically 1 volt.
6 dBV gives a gain of 2 in voltage, a gain of 4 in power if into the
same impedance.

dBm is using a specific power as a reference. 3 dBm is 2 mW.

How can you say

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 0.5

???

6dbV will only be equal to 3 dBm if the impedances on each side are in
the ratio of 1:2 to give the equal current for both voltages.

What are you trying to do?

This thread's semantical trap-doors are treacherous!

This time sloppy "signmanship," so to speak, causes confusion. Although
attenuation always implies the negative case, it helps to explicitly
include the negative sign.

-6dBV level = -3dBm level = 0.5
-6dBV ratio = -3dBm ratio = 0.5
-6dBV multiplier = -3dBm multiplier = 0.5
-6dBV coefficient = -3dBm coefficient = 0.5

6dBV level = 3dBm level = 2
6dBV ratio = 3dBm ratio = 2
6dBV multiplier = 3dBm multiplier = 2
6dBV coefficient = 3dBm coefficient = 2

6dBV is not 2. It's 2V. Likewise, 3dBm is not 2. It's 2mW. You have to
keep your units straight.
Yes 6dBV is 2V Across some resistance that you need to know before it is (generally)relevant.

0dBV is 1V

6dBV = 0dBV + 6dB = 6dBV = 2V across some resistance (which is power)

Signal gains or losses are ratios, expressed in dB without suffix.
It would be OK to say that 3dB=2, but only if we were talking about
power gain. It'd be OK to say that 6dB=2, but only when referring
to voltage gain.

Just 6dBV = 3dBm is true only when the load impedance happens to
be 2kOhm.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Phil Allison]

Ricky Cunthead is Crazy wrote:

=========================

** Never said "universally".

You lie universally...

"Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment."

"Govt employees are all sworn not to discuss their work"

Do you deny writing this???

** All = there are no excluded groups.

If you deal with personal information about people or businesses you must keep it private.

Oh, so it's not *all* government workers and it's not all of their work. It's just those "handling personal information about people".

** Your idotic words, not mine fuckhead.
------------------------------------

FYI fuckhead:

When complaining about a post you MUST post under it, never reword or rephrase it and never remove the context.

** The lack of response here is deafening.
-----------------------------------------

are required to sign a document prohibiting them from talking about their work. When I explained I had been a government worker and never signed any such paper,


** Which is a totally IDIOTIC thing to post.

Because it shows you are wrong???


** LOL = Because it is fucking meaningless.

You think and reason like a dumb 15 year old, at best.

You are not welcome here, with all the adults.

FUCK OFF !!!!

Yes, by responding to you I do act like a 15 year old because no one else listens to the crap you spew.

** Question:

Are you by any chance a Sovereign Citizen ?

Cos you *sure* sound like one of those fucking lunatics.

No idiot fallacy, no matter how ridiculous, is left unturned in your mad thinking.




...... Phil