Health issues with DECT cordless phones and other pulsing mi

[doRk Speed]

Jim Pills wrote:

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:52upvkF1qdg8hU1@mid.individual.net...
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Michael wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Stowe School, the Buckinghamshire public school, also removed part of
its wireless network after a teacher became ill.
Well whoopy fucking do. Plenty of teachers did that before
DECT phones and mobile phones showed up, fuckwit.
, fuckwit.
Pig!
No, Rod was right, you are a fuckwit
You think it's ok to call someone a f__kwit simply for asking questions
(politely) do you?
Pity I never did that. You cited what that school
did as if that proved a damned thing, fuckwit.

Well that shows the value of your opinion then.
Yours in spades, fuckwit fruit loop.

Tut, tut, tut, more rude words. You know, you really ought to read a book,
Mr. Speed. ;o)


Don't mind doRk - he's been narky ever since they cut his prostate - he

hasn't been able to have an erection since

DS

 

[Jim P Sharma]

Jim Pills <eat@me.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Jim Pills <eat@me.com> wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Michael wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote

, fuckwit.

Pig!

No, Rod was right, you are a fuckwit

You think it's ok to call someone a f__kwit simply for asking questions (politely) do you? Well
that shows the value of your opinion then.

I certainly don't think it's right.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Only to self-made ignorant biggots like yourself, mister Speed.

Wrong again, completely irrelevant to everyone, master Pills.

What you might or might not claim to 'think' in spades.

That's not a sentence, brainiac.

Corse it is, fuckwit child.

Rod and Michael have displayed a disturbing lack of morals here.

You wouldnt know what morals were if they bit you on your lard arse.

Hmmm... how to contradict yourself in one idiotic sentence. Nice! ;o)

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag either.

Why on earth they think it's ok to abuse someone just because they disagree beats me.

Pity we didnt do that.

But you did, see.

Nope.

And your beloved "science" would prove that,
hehehe...

Pathetic.

We JUST pointed out that only a fuckwit would 'think' that what that school did proves a damned
thing about DECT phones.

Ignoring that wont make it go away, child.

I would seriously doubt they'd have the guts to do it to your face though

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Mr. Speed's yellow stripe is positively glowing!

How stunning moral, child.

What you might or might not claim to serious doubt in spades.

Another non-sentence.

Wrong, as always.

(although I've no doubt they'll claim they do, hehehe...)

Wot stunningly impeccible morals you flaunt.

Where?

That pathetic excuse for bullshit of yours, child.

I'm not going to converse with you any further, Mr. Speed,

We'll see...

because you're just too damned ignorant and rude.

Whereas you have such impeccible manners, eh child ?

Enjoy the rest of your miserable life.

Ker... PLONK!

Fat lot of good that will ever do you, fuckwit child.

 

[Jim P Sharma]

Caught lying, within minutes. How stunningly moral, child.

Jim Pills <eat@me.com> wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Michael wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote

Stowe School, the Buckinghamshire public school, also removed
part of its wireless network after a teacher became ill.

Well whoopy fucking do. Plenty of teachers did that before
DECT phones and mobile phones showed up, fuckwit.

, fuckwit.

Pig!

No, Rod was right, you are a fuckwit

You think it's ok to call someone a f__kwit simply for asking questions (politely) do you?

Pity I never did that. You cited what that school
did as if that proved a damned thing, fuckwit.

Well that shows the value of your opinion then.

Yours in spades, fuckwit fruit loop.

Tut, tut, tut, more rude words.

You get to like it or lump it, fuckwit child.

You know, you really ought to read a book, Mr. Speed. ;o)

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead, fuckwit child.

 

[PeterD]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:56:24 -0000, "Jim Pills" <eat@me.com> wrote:

So you wade into an argument half-way through and take sides without having
a clue what's going on.

Sounds like you need a newsreader that shows all of the branches. If you'd
had that, you'd have known that...

Regardless the language used in this thread has been immature... <bg

...it was Rod that started the bad language. Regardless of the opinions of
the OP, Rod had no reason to be so immature - so I guess he just is
immature.

As PeterD reads more of Rod's charming words, he now appologizes to
anyone for his failure to realize that Rod is only 12 years old, and
suffers from a lack of good upbringing. <g>

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
<imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:

PeterD wrote:
Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first evolved
as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and in fact
that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!

you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but close
range EM radiation?

If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing and
non-ionizing radiation... <g>

I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a simple
matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out than you put
in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the extent he indicates
(causing physical discomfort and a three day headache) would require
many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100 watts (realize that over 50%
would be lost since it is radiated omnidirectionally.)

 

[lynx]

PeterD wrote:

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:20:26 +1100, lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

Thanks very much for that. I'll look into it. Perhaps it's a case of
some ppl being more sensitive/affected than others?


No, it's likely people believing things that are not based on any
evidence what so ever.

Some ppl are more sensitive than others. This is fact. Allergies being
one example, i.e. food, etc, and notably those who are extremely
sensitive to sunlight.

And if there are
reports of adverse effects with the use of these DECT phones, then
surely they can't be ignored, even if they're not scientifically based.


Why? The other day after using my Bic pen I got a rash on my hand...
Therefore all Bic pens are dangerous? Or am I just sensitive? Or, just
maybe, I then went into the woods and got poison ivy?

IF something is not 'scientifically based' as you put it, it is just
simply a wish or thought.

Evidence is evidence. If many ppl are saying that they have the same
experience, that doesn't have to be as part of a scientific study to
have validity.

When I rang Uniden, they said that that the phones (including handsets)
constantly emit full power even on standby, and it was put to me that if
there are several in the house, then the family is virtually living in a
'sea' of (low) radiation!


Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first evolved
as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and in fact
that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!

What prompted the original posting, was that I
had purchased one, and when I turned it on, I immediately noticed some
of the effects mentioned in the article quoted-


*Immediately*? That blows your case then... Such effects would take
time to become apparent.

No, not really. I didn't say instantly. But there was noticeable
correlation. I'm still experimenting to try to rule out any
psychological effect.

Realize that people working in communications
and electroncis are exposed to these fields in *much* higher doses
without suffering any side effects.

although I had not seen
it then- so I went googling about cordless phones. Since then I have
been switching the phones on and off to see if there is a correlation
between the effects that I feel and the phones being in use, and there
has been.


How have you been switching them off? Most don't really turn off but
remain in communication with the base even when 'off'. This is just
like turning off a 'modern' TV: it is still on, it just isn't
displaying anything on the screen.

You'd have to remove the battery to actually turn them off!

I have the base station connected to a power board with a switch, and I
simply unplug the battery connector in the handsets.

When switching it off, the headache effect and light
headedness diminishes almost immediately.


Again, 'immediately ' tends to tell me that there's something else
involved here.

Why? The radiation would cease when they're switched off.

(There are other effects that
I'm reluctant to mention for fear of being considered crazy!)


Too late. Go ahead and list them.

Most noticeable was a (very) slight heart dysrhythmia or palpitation,
and an overall effect similar to high blood pressure. (Ok, so now you
know I'm crazy) And these were effects mentioned in the report I linked
to. So if different ppl experience the same effects without knowledge of
each other, then how is that not evidence relative to the cause of those
effects? And if more than one person has the same experience then
doubtless there are others as well.

I'm also
very sensitive to mobile phones, so i feel that I simply can't use this
phone at all.


eBay it then...

Move to the country. Have the power disconnected from your house. By
candle light, read the classic science fiction story "Press Enter".

Don't knock it. The level of cancer in western society is unprecedented.
There's some Naturopath chinese guy who's had all the power cables for
his house buried in the ground beneath it. And we are poisoning
ourselves with what we eat. Organic food is rapidly becoming popular for
those who can afford it.

What you are complaining about is a sensitivity to a specific spectrum
of frequencies

That may well be the case.

(not all frequencies, since you are not affected by
power line EMF, broadcast radiation, EMF from television receivers and
computer monitors, etc.)

How do you/I know? I live in an area with underground power. I don't sit
close to the TV, but I do have problems if I stay at the computer for
too long. (more than an hour, say) Never experienced any probs with
radios tho.

Ask you self: what is the method? How do these frequencies cause me a
problem?

Well that's just it. We don't know enough about this matter to know
how/why there is this problem. The brain works on electrical energy. We
know this. So maybe it's some sort of resonance or interference with
those electrical impulses.

--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'Birthdays are good for you -the more you have the longer you live'

 

[lynx]

Dave wrote:

I am unaware of any known epidemilogical evidence to support the theory
that DECT technology has any effect on health

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for that. I'll look into it. Perhaps it's a case of some
ppl being more sensitive/affected than others?


IMO, not unless chaos theory applies in the same way a butterfly near the
Amazon causes a cyclone near Broome.

I can give other examples, but there's no point. However, I will just
mention that as fate would have it I rang Mitsubishi yesterday about an
issue with an air conditioner, and the technician stated that in his 30
or so years experience he had only ever heard of one other person with
that reaction, but that it was a known reaction.

When I rang Uniden, they said that that the phones (including handsets)
constantly emit full power even on standby, and it was put to me that if
there are several in the house, then the family is virtually living in a
'sea' of (low) radiation!


There is no way that anyone with decent technical knowledge at Uniden would
have stated that. Simply because it is not true. Their DECT and WDECT phones
do not constantly emit full power when on Standby, instead the base and
handsets periodically poll for each other to make sure they are in range,
etc. Apart from the lack of a practical purpose in needing to do so, the
batteries would be flat in next to no time if they did.

That's my mistake then I guess. I must have interpreted them saying that
the phones constantly emit radiation to mean at the same level as when
in use.

What prompted the original posting, was that I had purchased one, and when
I turned it on, I immediately noticed some of the effects mentioned in the
article quoted-


Well lets match stories.... I too have had experience dealing with people
complaining of headaches caused by the perceived effects of electroagnetic
radiation. In my case we were establishing an open air test site (OATS) for
electromagnetic interference testing. During the advertising stage of the
DA by council, they received two complaints from people regarding the health
effects of the radiation my OATS would emit. One, a 62 year old lady was
experiencing headaches caused by "radiation" from the OATS. When it was
explained to her it hadn't been built and existed only as a paper plan, she
countered she was so sensitive to electromagnetic radiation she could feel
the radiation approaching from wherever we had it stored (quote "It comes
through the air you know, that's how televisions work")

The second, after hearing about the problem from the first (they lived near
each other) wrote a long submission detailing how the radiation would affect
the local poultry and equine industries. It was quite comprehensive and
included an example detailing how his pheasants had recently stopped laying.
He was sure the pheasants (being sensitive birds) could sense the radiation
approaching and the lack of laying was due to headaches the birds were
experiencing.

I am quite sure they could be counted upon to validate your own situation.

There's just one fault with your argument. I never decided that if I put
a mobile phone to my ear, I would experience such-and-such. I
experienced the reactions that I did when I used the phone. i.e. it
happened- it was simply an observable phenomenon, and others have had
the same experience. There was media publicity a while back about a
local professor who's researching this issue, but I don't recall his
name. He's located in Brighton in Victoria I think.

And while I have your attention.. with these phones, are we in fact
talking about the same sort of radiation as emitted by TV, Plasma, or
LCD screens? And in particular are there known risks with LCD screens? I
need to have my LCD computer monitor just 300-400 mm distant.


--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'If you can't do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly'

 

[lynx]

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:


PeterD wrote:

Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first evolved
as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and in fact
that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!

you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but close
range EM radiation?


If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing and
non-ionizing radiation... <g

I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a simple
matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out than you put
in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the extent he indicates
(causing physical discomfort and a three day headache) would require
many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100 watts (realize that over 50%
would be lost since it is radiated omnidirectionally.)

What explanation do you have then? This is a known phenomenon.


--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'If all is not lost, then where is it?'

 

[lynx]

lynx wrote:

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:

PeterD wrote:

Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first evolved
as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and in fact
that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!
you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but
close range EM radiation?


If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing and
non-ionizing radiation... <g
I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a simple
matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out than you put
in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the extent he indicates
(causing physical discomfort and a three day headache) would require
many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100 watts (realize that over 50%
would be lost since it is radiated omnidirectionally.)


What explanation do you have then? This is a known phenomenon.

p.s. perhaps the 'heating' is not so much a direct result of the
microwave energy, but rather some sort of physiological reaction or
response to it. If we take urticaria as an example, which can affect the
whole body, but is just triggered by exposure of some sort.



--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'Hit any user to continue'

 

[Rod Speed]

lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote

Dave wrote

I am unaware of any known epidemilogical evidence to support the theory that DECT technology
has any effect on health

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for that. I'll look into it. Perhaps it's a case
of some ppl being more sensitive/affected than others?

IMO, not unless chaos theory applies in the same way a butterfly near the Amazon causes a cyclone
near Broome.

I can give other examples, but there's no point.

Yep, unless you can demonstrate that you can pick it in a proper
double blind trial, all you have proven is that you're a fruit loop.

However, I will just mention that as fate would have it I rang Mitsubishi yesterday about an issue
with an air conditioner, and the technician stated that in his 30 or so years experience he had
only ever heard of one other person with that reaction, but that it was a known reaction.

Irrelevant to whether you can show a real effect with a double blind trial.

When I rang Uniden, they said that that the phones (including
handsets) constantly emit full power even on standby, and it was put to me that if there are
several in the house, then the family is virtually living in a 'sea' of (low) radiation!

There is no way that anyone with decent technical knowledge at
Uniden would have stated that. Simply because it is not true. Their
DECT and WDECT phones do not constantly emit full power when on
Standby, instead the base and handsets periodically poll for each
other to make sure they are in range, etc. Apart from the lack of a
practical purpose in needing to do so, the batteries would be flat
in next to no time if they did.

That's my mistake then I guess.

As always.

I must have interpreted them saying that the phones constantly emit radiation to mean at the same
level as when in use.

Or asked a stupid question that got that answer.

What prompted the original posting, was that I had purchased one,
and when I turned it on, I immediately noticed some of the effects
mentioned in the article quoted-

Well lets match stories.... I too have had experience dealing with
people complaining of headaches caused by the perceived effects of
electroagnetic radiation. In my case we were establishing an open
air test site (OATS) for electromagnetic interference testing. During the advertising stage of
the DA by council, they received two
complaints from people regarding the health effects of the radiation
my OATS would emit. One, a 62 year old lady was experiencing
headaches caused by "radiation" from the OATS. When it was
explained to her it hadn't been built and existed only as a paper
plan, she countered she was so sensitive to electromagnetic
radiation she could feel the radiation approaching from wherever we
had it stored (quote "It comes through the air you know, that's how
televisions work")

The second, after hearing about the problem from the first (they
lived near each other) wrote a long submission detailing how the
radiation would affect the local poultry and equine industries. It
was quite comprehensive and included an example detailing how his
pheasants had recently stopped laying. He was sure the pheasants
(being sensitive birds) could sense the radiation approaching and
the lack of laying was due to headaches the birds were experiencing.

I am quite sure they could be counted upon to validate your own situation.

There's just one fault with your argument.

Nope.

I never decided that if I put a mobile phone to my ear, I would experience such-and-such. I
experienced the reactions that I did when I used the phone.

No you didnt, you got a coincidence and talked
yourself into believing that you got that result after that.

One fella I know well gets a sadistic delight out of pretending to have
got a food poisoning result after eating seafood in a restaurant.

Its amazing how many of the other diners convince themselves
that they have got the same reaction to the food.

i.e. it happened- it was simply an observable phenomenon,

Pity that until you can demonstrate that you can pick it in a double blind trial,
ALL you have shown is that you managed to convince yourself of an effect.

and others have had the same experience.

Plenty are convinced that they have seen unicorns, werewolves,
yetis, aliens that have medically experimented on them, angels
that tell them all sorts of things, etc etc etc too.

All that proves is that there are hordes of you fruit loops around.

There was media publicity a while back about a local professor who's researching this issue, but I
don't recall his name. He's located in Brighton in Victoria I think.

Pity that fool hasnt ever managed to prove any effect using rigorous science.

And while I have your attention.. with these phones, are we in fact talking about the same sort of
radiation as emitted by TV, Plasma, or LCD screens?

Nope, different frequencys. Same frequencys are used by TV transmitters tho.

And in particular are there known risks with LCD screens?

Nope, none that have been substantiated using rigorous science.

I need to have my LCD computer monitor just 300-400 mm distant.

Best to smash it and go back to pencil and paper.

 

[Rod Speed]

lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:


PeterD wrote:

Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first
evolved as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and
in fact that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for
us!
you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but
close range EM radiation?


If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing
and non-ionizing radiation... <g

I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a
simple matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out
than you put in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the
extent he indicates (causing physical discomfort and a three day
headache) would require many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100 watts
(realize that over 50% would be lost since it is radiated
omnidirectionally.)

What explanation do you have then?

You're imagining it.

This is a known phenomenon.

Like hell it is. Its never been established using a proper double blind trial.

 

[Rod Speed]

lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

lynx wrote:

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:

PeterD wrote:

Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first
evolved as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect,
and in fact that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible
for us!
you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but
close range EM radiation?


If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing
and non-ionizing radiation... <g
I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a
simple matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out
than you put in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the
extent he indicates (causing physical discomfort and a three day
headache) would require many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100
watts (realize that over 50% would be lost since it is radiated
omnidirectionally.)

What explanation do you have then? This is a known phenomenon.

p.s. perhaps the 'heating' is not so much a direct result of the microwave energy, but rather some
sort of physiological reaction or response to it.

Or its your fetid imagination.

If we take urticaria as an example, which can affect the whole body, but is just triggered by
exposure of some sort.

Just another fruit loop fantasy.

 

[Rod Speed]

lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote

PeterD wrote
lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote

Thanks very much for that. I'll look into it. Perhaps it's a case of some ppl being more
sensitive/affected than others?

No, it's likely people believing things that are not based on any evidence what so ever.

Some ppl are more sensitive than others. This is fact.

Nothing like a fact with RF 'radiation'

Allergies being one example, i.e. food, etc, and notably those who are extremely sensitive to
sunlight.

Nothing like a fact with RF 'radiation'

And while its completely trivial to prove allergys and sensitivity to
sunlight using a proper double blind trial, that has never been proven
with with RF 'radiation' except with cataracts at VASTLY higher levels.

And if there are reports of adverse effects with the use of these DECT phones, then surely they
can't be ignored, even if they're not scientifically based.

Why? The other day after using my Bic pen I got a rash on my hand...
Therefore all Bic pens are dangerous? Or am I just sensitive? Or,
just maybe, I then went into the woods and got poison ivy?

IF something is not 'scientifically based' as you put it, it is just simply a wish or thought.

Or a fantasy.

Evidence is evidence.

You dont have a shred of evidence of ANY health effects with DECT phones.

If many ppl are saying that they have the same experience,

True in spades with fruit loops claiming that they have seen
unicorns, werewolves, that they have been abducted by aliens,
had angels spew all sorts of shit into their ear, etc etc etc.

All that proves is that there are hordes of you stupid fruit loops.

that doesn't have to be as part of a scientific study to have validity.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that
you are completely off with the fucking fairys.

When I rang Uniden, they said that that the phones (including
handsets) constantly emit full power even on standby, and it was put to me that if there are
several in the house, then the family is virtually living in a 'sea' of (low) radiation!

Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first
evolved as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and
in fact that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!

What prompted the original posting, was that I had purchased one, and when I turned it on, I
immediately noticed
some of the effects mentioned in the article quoted-

*Immediately*? That blows your case then... Such effects would take time to become apparent.

No, not really.

Fraid so.

I didn't say instantly.

You clearly did say immediately.

But there was noticeable correlation.

Easy to claim.

I'm still experimenting to try to rule out any psychological effect.

The ONLY way to do that is a proper double blind trial
and by definition it isnt even possible for you to do that.

Realize that people working in communications and electroncis are exposed
to these fields in *much* higher doses without suffering any side effects.

although I had not seen> it then- so I went googling about cordless phones. Since then I have
been switching the phones on and off to see if there is a correlation between the effects that I
feel and the phones being in use, and there has been.

How have you been switching them off? Most don't really turn off but remain in communication with
the base even when 'off'. This is just like turning off a 'modern' TV: it is still on, it just
isn't
displaying anything on the screen.

You'd have to remove the battery to actually turn them off!

I have the base station connected to a power board with a switch, and I simply unplug the battery
connector in the handsets.

But havent done the ONLY thing that proves a damned thing, a proper double blind trial.

When switching it off, the headache effect and light headedness diminishes almost immediately.

Again, 'immediately ' tends to tell me that there's something else involved here.

Why? The radiation would cease when they're switched off.

Doesnt work like that with other things that generate those effects.

(There are other effects that I'm reluctant to mention for fear of being considered crazy!)

Too late. Go ahead and list them.

Most noticeable was a (very) slight heart dysrhythmia or palpitation,
and an overall effect similar to high blood pressure.

You cant detect high blood pressure without measuring it.

(Ok, so now you know I'm crazy)

Yep, those voices in the head are a dead giveaway.

And these were effects mentioned in the report I linked to.

Which is where you got them from. Funny that.

So if different ppl experience the same effects without
knowledge of each other, then how is that not evidence relative to the cause of those effects?

Nope, not when those claimed effects are what everyone expects to get.

And if more than one person has the same
experience then doubtless there are others as well.

True in spades with fruit loops claiming that they have seen
unicorns, werewolves, that they have been abducted by aliens,
had angels spew all sorts of shit into their ear, etc etc etc.

All that proves is that there are hordes of you stupid fruit loops.

I'm also very sensitive to mobile phones, so i feel that I simply can't use this phone at all.

eBay it then...

Move to the country. Have the power disconnected from your house. By candle light, read the
classic science fiction story "Press Enter".

Don't knock it. The level of cancer in western society is unprecedented.

Just because we dont die of infectious disease much anymore.

If it actually was due to RF 'radiation', we'd see hordes of
kids getting cancer and in fact the incidence of cancers in
the 20s would have been unprecedented, and it aint.

There's some Naturopath chinese guy who's had all the
power cables for his house buried in the ground beneath it.

And hordes of those fools are stupid enough to buy the
feng shu bullshit and insist on operations they deal with
having phone numbers that have the correct digits in them.

And we are poisoning ourselves with what we eat.

No we arent.

Organic food is rapidly becoming popular for those who can afford it.

So was grovelling to some damned god or other.

Doesnt prove a damned thing about whether it works or not.

What you are complaining about is a sensitivity to a specific spectrum of frequencies

That may well be the case.

Pity that cant be established using the only
thing that matters, proper double blind trials.

(not all frequencies, since you are not affected by power line EMF, broadcast radiation, EMF from
television receivers and computer monitors, etc.)

How do you/I know? I live in an area with underground power.

Those still radiate.

I don't sit close to the TV, but I do have problems if I stay at the computer for too long. (more
than an hour, say)

The problem is that its got bad feng shu.

Never experienced any probs with radios tho.

Pity about the RF they 'radiate'

Ask you self: what is the method? How do these frequencies cause me a problem?

Well that's just it. We don't know enough about this matter to know how/why there is this problem.

Double blind trials were invented to separate real effects from fantasys.

The brain works on electrical energy.

So does all sorts of things. They dont get tumours.

We know this. So maybe it's some sort of resonance or interference with those electrical impulses.

Pity you cant substantiate ANY effect using a proper double blind trial.

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:41:06 +1100, lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:


PeterD wrote:

Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first evolved
as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and in fact
that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!

you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but close
range EM radiation?


If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing and
non-ionizing radiation... <g

I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a simple
matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out than you put
in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the extent he indicates
(causing physical discomfort and a three day headache) would require
many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100 watts (realize that over 50%
would be lost since it is radiated omnidirectionally.)



What explanation do you have then? This is a known phenomenon.

Like in a 700 watt microwave oven?

One doesn't get that much heat from a watt of power... Say the phone
puts out 2 watts of power (I'd be surprised if it is even close to a
watt, myself). Say 1 watt is absorbed by the head, over a hemisphere
with a radius of 2 inches. That results in a volume of about 15 cubic
inches.

Now put a watt into 15 cubic inches of water, and what heating effects
do you get? You can, I suppose, assume it is perfectly insulated, so
there is no heat loss, but that's not going to be true. In fact, the
head is liquid cooled (fairly efficiently at these rates), so maybe
just take that 15 cubic inches of water and put it on a table.

In the end, you'll notice no appreciable heat buildup in the water
from that one watt of power.

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:36:32 +1100, lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

Evidence is evidence. If many ppl are saying that they have the same
experience, that doesn't have to be as part of a scientific study to
have validity.

Many people say they talk directly to god too. But since god's a
fantasy, that doesn't have validity either.

Many musliims say that if they blow themselves up with a bunch of
non-muslims that they 'go immediately to heaven'. That has no validity
either.

 

[lynx]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"lynx" <none@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:12sjb1c4pmhjp78@news.supernews.com...

Rod Speed wrote:

lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote

However I don't think we can ignore what evidence there is,

There isnt a shred of evidence of any health effects what so ever.

It was thought that smoking was harmless, and asbestos.


**Nope. Tobacco companies lied.

Not sure if native North and South Americans had 'tobacco companies'.
Not sure about sixteen century Britain either.

Asbestos has been KNOWN to be harmful for at least 100 years.

And has been in use for centuries.

But we now know better.


**Yep. The statistics show that smokers die earlier and by a range of
interesting diseases. Asbestos has been a known carcinogen for at leat 100
years. Despite several trials, there is no proven link between DECT 'phones
and any harmful effects.

Yet. and assuming the truth of your statement.

And there's been studies done to show the adverse effects from
living too close to power lines.


**No, there hasn't. Studies are amazingly difficult to get right. The
results of a recent study, found that a large number of people who used
mouthwash also suffered from mouth cancer. Therefore, using mouthwash
increases your chances of contracting mouth cancer, right? Wrong. The
majority of people who use mouthwash, also smoke.

Trials need to be CAREFULLY performed. Anecdotes don't count.

Be sure to let me know which of these 1.14 million links can be safely
ignored:

http://tinyurl.com/29lbja

But the bottom line... wtf would you

know anyway. You're just a know-it-all nobody who get his rocks off by
being a total arsehole on usenet.


**Standard response for the loser of an argument - insult your opponent. You
lose.

No, just a general comment. He is just that.

Next time, back up your opinions with facts.

Like you always do- NOT! Anyway, I'm not here to argue. Have a nice day!

I'd like to thank all those who have provided me with some useful info
on this issue.



--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?'

 

[lynx]

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:41:06 +1100, lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:39:45 +1000, imorf
imorf@iformRemovethis.com.au> wrote:


PeterD wrote:


Man has been living in a sea of (low) radiation since he first evolved
as life on earth. Nothing has changed in that respect, and in fact
that sea of radiation may well be what is responsible for us!


you see no difference between the natural background radiation & UV
radiation that we have evolved with, and modern man made weak but close
range EM radiation?


If you want to go there, we'll have to break this down to ionizing and
non-ionizing radiation... <g

I'm surprised that no one caught on the OP's comment that with the
phone near his head he felt considerable RF heating! There is a simple
matter of physics involved--you can't get more energy out than you put
in. The amount of power to 'heat his head' to the extent he indicates
(causing physical discomfort and a three day headache) would require
many watts of power, perhaps 50 to 100 watts (realize that over 50%
would be lost since it is radiated omnidirectionally.)



What explanation do you have then? This is a known phenomenon.


Like in a 700 watt microwave oven?

I meant actually what explanation do you have for the heating effect
that I and others experience when using a mobile phone, if it's
'physically' impossible?

One doesn't get that much heat from a watt of power... Say the phone
puts out 2 watts of power (I'd be surprised if it is even close to a
watt, myself). Say 1 watt is absorbed by the head, over a hemisphere
with a radius of 2 inches. That results in a volume of about 15 cubic
inches.

Now put a watt into 15 cubic inches of water, and what heating effects
do you get? You can, I suppose, assume it is perfectly insulated, so
there is no heat loss, but that's not going to be true. In fact, the
head is liquid cooled (fairly efficiently at these rates), so maybe
just take that 15 cubic inches of water and put it on a table.

In the end, you'll notice no appreciable heat buildup in the water
from that one watt of power.

--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'I'm not 30 something! I'm $29.95, plus shipping and handling'

 

[lynx]

PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:36:32 +1100, lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

Evidence is evidence. If many ppl are saying that they have the same
experience, that doesn't have to be as part of a scientific study to
have validity.


Many people say they talk directly to god too. But since god's a
fantasy, that doesn't have validity either.

Many musliims say that if they blow themselves up with a bunch of
non-muslims that they 'go immediately to heaven'. That has no validity
either.

Except that there's no evidence that they actually have (or will have)
that experience. Quite a different matter to those who actually have an
experience that they can relate.


--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'Plan like you'll live forever. Live like there's not tomorrow'

 

[lynx]

PeterD wrote:

On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:56:24 -0000, "Jim Pills" <eat@me.com> wrote:

So you wade into an argument half-way through and take sides without having
a clue what's going on.

Sounds like you need a newsreader that shows all of the branches. If you'd
had that, you'd have known that...

Regardless the language used in this thread has been immature... <bg

...it was Rod that started the bad language. Regardless of the opinions of
the OP, Rod had no reason to be so immature - so I guess he just is
immature.



As PeterD reads more of Rod's charming words, he now appologizes to
anyone for his failure to realize that Rod is only 12 years old, and
suffers from a lack of good upbringing. <g

thanks!


--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'Who are all these kids, and why are they calling me daddy??'

 

[Albinus]

lynx wrote:

I meant actually what explanation do you have for the heating effect
that I and others experience when using a mobile phone, if it's
'physically' impossible?

Same heating effect you have when standing in front of a heater or out
in the sun. Just the wavelength from the sun can cause cancer - unlike
that from cellular devices.