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On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the hands
of anyone but trained LEO. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the hands
of anyone but trained LEO. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
Does that also go for high school kids asking how to build a nuclear bomb?
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the hands
of anyone but trained LEO. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
Does that also go for high school kids asking how to build a nuclear bomb?
On 10/28/19 1:40 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the hands
of anyone but trained LEO. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
Does that also go for high school kids asking how to build a nuclear bomb?
Nah. Abstract questions about things unrealistic for any high school
student to actually build aren't particularly concerning. Or a question
like "how does a stun gun work?" same deal.
A high school student asking for concrete advice on e.g. how to
electrically detonate blasting caps, or what ratio of ammonium
nitrate/fuel oil is best for reliable detonation would be more so.
The OP's question wasn't abstract.
On 10/28/19 1:40 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the hands
of anyone but trained LEO. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
Does that also go for high school kids asking how to build a nuclear bomb?
It's a judgment call as to whether someone is asking for the sake of
simply learning, or like they want to actually construct something as
quickly as possible and have no real interest in the technological
principles behind its operation.
The former is fine, even admirable. There's nothing intrinsically
"wrong" or dangerous about wanting to learn about the operating
principles of things, even weapons. I don't believe in "security through
obscurity."
However the second is a red flag and it's worth wondering why anyone
would want to build something in such haste that they can't even be
bothered to learn that some types of parts are interchangeable and
probably non-critical.
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 2:25:59 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
The OP's question wasn't abstract.
It also wasn't criminal. Presently criminal intent by itself is not illegal. You seem to want to outlaw knowledge. Would you also make it illegal for anyone to answer the question?
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
The most important option is the unlisted "option zero" but the one real
world self-defense classes that are worth anything focus on a lot: don't
put yourself in situations where certain things are liable to happen.
There are many situations you can get into when you're alone that there
are no real good answers for no matter what you're armed with.
On 10/28/19 3:04 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 2:25:59 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/19 1:40 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
   I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
   when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
   her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
   The thought of her having to make contact, or near
   contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
   knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
   hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
   hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
   close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that
started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good
option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the
hands
of anyone but trained LEO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
Does that also go for high school kids asking how to build a nuclear
bomb?
Nah. Abstract questions about things unrealistic for any high school
student to actually build aren't particularly concerning. Or a question
like "how does a stun gun work?" same deal.
A high school student asking for concrete advice on e.g. how to
electrically detonate blasting caps, or what ratio of ammonium
nitrate/fuel oil is best for reliable detonation would be more so.
The OP's question wasn't abstract.
It also wasn't criminal. Presently criminal intent by itself is not
illegal. You seem to want to outlaw knowledge. Would you also make
it illegal for anyone to answer the question? How would you define
the level of detail so that such a law could be enforced without being
arbitrary? "I know it when I see it".
I'm not talking about wanting any new law or outlawing anything I'm
talking about one's own personal behavior and standards.
On Monday, 28 October 2019 07:04:12 UTC, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 2:25:59 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
The OP's question wasn't abstract.
It also wasn't criminal. Presently criminal intent by itself is not illegal. You seem to want to outlaw knowledge. Would you also make it illegal for anyone to answer the question?
it already is
How would you define the level of detail so that such a law could be enforced without being arbitrary? "I know it when I see it".
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 2:25:59 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/19 1:40 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
Handheld stun guns are next to useless as defensive weapons in the hands
of anyone but trained LEO. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KU9IoBD58
pepper spray is cheap and much more effective defensive wepaon in the
non-lethal category.
I'd assume anyone asking how to build them has criminal intent until
proven otherwise.
Does that also go for high school kids asking how to build a nuclear bomb?
Nah. Abstract questions about things unrealistic for any high school
student to actually build aren't particularly concerning. Or a question
like "how does a stun gun work?" same deal.
A high school student asking for concrete advice on e.g. how to
electrically detonate blasting caps, or what ratio of ammonium
nitrate/fuel oil is best for reliable detonation would be more so.
The OP's question wasn't abstract.
It also wasn't criminal. Presently criminal intent by itself is not illegal. You seem to want to outlaw knowledge. Would you also make it illegal for anyone to answer the question? How would you define the level of detail so that such a law could be enforced without being arbitrary? "I know it when I see it".
On Monday, 28 October 2019 04:36:51 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
The most important option is the unlisted "option zero" but the one real
world self-defense classes that are worth anything focus on a lot: don't
put yourself in situations where certain things are liable to happen.
There are many situations you can get into when you're alone that there
are no real good answers for no matter what you're armed with.
In the real world people aren't always reasonable. Just the other day I had someone escalate from absolutely nothing. Just a nutcase.
NT
On 10/28/19 8:48 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 28 October 2019 04:36:51 UTC, bitrex wrote:
On 10/27/19 10:29 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 27 October 2019 14:08:02 UTC, Winfield Hill wrote:
TheExperimenter wrote...
By the way, it was for possible responses like yours
which is why I was hesitant to post further information,
but Winfield Hill suggested it, so I reluctantly decided
to do so. If anyone else has to bow out due to the
possible legal issues, I'll fully understand.
I didn't know the topic was a stun gun. I bowed out
when I saw the picture of a woman with the device in
her hand and the guy with the big knife in her face.
The thought of her having to make contact, or near
contact to be effective, in order to fend off a big
knife, was what did it for me. She's going to get
hurt, and probably badly. If having a stun gun at
hand helps make a person bold enough to engage in a
close-quarters knife fight, that's not good. I'm out.
In that scenario it's presumably meant to be the knife holder that started it. You got 3 options:
Run away
Fight back
Be a victim
A weapon gives you option 2. Of course it's not always a good option. And sometimes it's the only realistic option.
The most important option is the unlisted "option zero" but the one real
world self-defense classes that are worth anything focus on a lot: don't
put yourself in situations where certain things are liable to happen.
There are many situations you can get into when you're alone that there
are no real good answers for no matter what you're armed with.
In the real world people aren't always reasonable. Just the other day I had someone escalate from absolutely nothing. Just a nutcase.
NT
It's rare, but I suppose it happens occasionally. Most of the time
though it takes two "nutcases" to escalate. The vast majority of random
interpersonal conflict that escalates to violence, that didn't start out
violent, was because someone didn't back down or walk away or otherwise
eject.
Most street fights and night club shootings aren't between an asshole
and an innocent party, they're between two assholes, and sometimes one
asshole ends up dead.
How'd that song go? You had to be the big shot,
did ya, you had to open up your mouth. You had to have the last word,
last night....
95% of self-defense is the art of de-escalating and backing down.
because in any real-world combat situation the odds are generally
stacked against you and even with training with a weapon or hand to hand
fighting it only reduces the chances of death or serious injury from
almost assured to 50-50. Honest personal defense courses don't go over
well at all with people who just want to be "hard" because it's not what
the material is about, and honest personal defense trainers are glad to
be rid of those people because a lot of them end up casualties sooner or
later.