Frustration

[default]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:25:39 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 08:20:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Electronics is frustrating if you put together things that you don't
understand, and they don't work. Why not just buy stuff all done?

If you do want to learn about electronics, start with very simple
circuits that you invent yourself, and do the math, and make it work.

Start with a battery and some resistors a DVM. Do the simple math all
along the way.

After that makes sense, add one big capacitor. Then an LED or two. Don't
move on until you understand it.

An introductory EE course at a community college would be hugely
helpful.

The OP can be comforted by the fact that expecting a circuit to work
first time after building it is unduly optimistic. Even simple circuits
it's easy to overlook something, no matter how experienced you become. IME
(very considerable over 50+ years) the majority of circuits do NOT work
first time and so need time spend re-checking everything. You just get
quicker and quicker at the checking and testing procedures!

And here I thought it was just me.

 

[AK]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:15:40 PM UTC-5, default wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:25:39 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 08:20:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Electronics is frustrating if you put together things that you don't
understand, and they don't work. Why not just buy stuff all done?

If you do want to learn about electronics, start with very simple
circuits that you invent yourself, and do the math, and make it work.

Start with a battery and some resistors a DVM. Do the simple math all
along the way.

After that makes sense, add one big capacitor. Then an LED or two. Don't
move on until you understand it.

An introductory EE course at a community college would be hugely
helpful.

The OP can be comforted by the fact that expecting a circuit to work
first time after building it is unduly optimistic. Even simple circuits
it's easy to overlook something, no matter how experienced you become. IME
(very considerable over 50+ years) the majority of circuits do NOT work
first time and so need time spend re-checking everything. You just get
quicker and quicker at the checking and testing procedures!

And here I thought it was just me.

While I have not given up on the laser alarm,

https://makezine.com/projects/laser-tripwire-alarm/

I would like to explore other options.

Does anyone know of an alarm project that they know works pretty consistently?

Like was said, nothing works right out of the box.

It does not necessarily have to use a laser.

It can be a motion detector

or use an PIR senser.

https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/pir-sensor-based-motion-detector-sensor-circuit

Thanks.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:25:39 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 08:20:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Electronics is frustrating if you put together things that you don't
understand, and they don't work. Why not just buy stuff all done?

If you do want to learn about electronics, start with very simple
circuits that you invent yourself, and do the math, and make it work.

Start with a battery and some resistors a DVM. Do the simple math all
along the way.

After that makes sense, add one big capacitor. Then an LED or two. Don't
move on until you understand it.

An introductory EE course at a community college would be hugely
helpful.

The OP can be comforted by the fact that expecting a circuit to work
first time after building it is unduly optimistic. Even simple circuits
it's easy to overlook something, no matter how experienced you become. IME
(very considerable over 50+ years) the majority of circuits do NOT work
first time and so need time spend re-checking everything. You just get
quicker and quicker at the checking and testing procedures!

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be
sold, without prototypes. Spice helps a lot, as do design reviews.

Civil engineers get things right first time, programmers never. We can
if we try.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[default]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 16:49:42 -0700 (PDT), AK
<scientist77017@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 3:15:40 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:25:39 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 08:20:22 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Electronics is frustrating if you put together things that you don't
understand, and they don't work. Why not just buy stuff all done?

If you do want to learn about electronics, start with very simple
circuits that you invent yourself, and do the math, and make it work.

Start with a battery and some resistors a DVM. Do the simple math all
along the way.

After that makes sense, add one big capacitor. Then an LED or two. Don't
move on until you understand it.

An introductory EE course at a community college would be hugely
helpful.

The OP can be comforted by the fact that expecting a circuit to work
first time after building it is unduly optimistic. Even simple circuits
it's easy to overlook something, no matter how experienced you become. IME
(very considerable over 50+ years) the majority of circuits do NOT work
first time and so need time spend re-checking everything. You just get
quicker and quicker at the checking and testing procedures!

And here I thought it was just me.

While I have not given up on the laser alarm,

https://makezine.com/projects/laser-tripwire-alarm/

I would like to explore other options.

Does anyone know of an alarm project that they know works pretty consistently?

Like was said, nothing works right out of the box.

It does not necessarily have to use a laser.

It can be a motion detector

or use an PIR senser.

https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/pir-sensor-based-motion-detector-sensor-circuit

Thanks.

I know you can buy what you want ready-made on ebay with a claimed
range of ~100 meters for about $10 and up.

And you might consider a "retro reflective" type beam. (one box has
the transmitter and receiver and it is aimed at a reflector, like you
see on automobiles) - that way one power supply and no wires to two
boxes.

I'd advise sticking to one method/schematic and seeing it through
until you have it working.

John Larkin has the right idea, get a flashlight, LDR and your meter
and play with it. From there it would be relatively easy to add a
transistor and relay or buzzer.

With a sensitive enough relay and hefty enough LDR (high current
capacity) the LDR could work the relay directly. (they use that
technique on some dawn-to-dusk street lighting)

BTW with a transistor and relay you could even make the relay
self-latching if you want the alarm to stay on once tripped.

You have to learn- it seldom works the first time. Once you know what
you are doing, a non-working project is no big deal because you will
have the knowledge and confidence to make it work. That can actually
be fun and very satisfying.

I was working prototyping power supplies at this one place. Hit the
switch and things got really exciting. Smoke, fire, noise... and when
we put the fire out and the smoke cleared, my boss who was standing
right behind me says in a calm voice, "Well, what have we learned from
this?" like it was nothing.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:28:44 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be sold,
without prototypes.

I should hope so, too. That's your profession! I'm only speaking as a
long-time hobbyist.





--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 16:49:42 -0700, AK wrote:

> I would like to explore other options.

I really wouldn't. The concept you are currently working on is about as
simple as it gets. Don't give up on it. Stick with it, get it working
with or without help and you'll be very glad you did. IF you're serious
about learning, that is.




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[default]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 14:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:28:44 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be sold,
without prototypes.

I should hope so, too. That's your profession! I'm only speaking as a
long-time hobbyist.

With computer aided design the electronics, mechanical layout,
everything, can be predicted with enough confidence to do that.

Good thing too, because surface mount components are best left to
machines.

 

[Rodney Pont]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.

Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

 

[AK]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-5, Rodney Pont wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.



Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leak8ty4dsmw88e/Project2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edy9xs8p5rfm15q/Project1.jpg?dl=0

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Andy

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 14:31:29 -0700, AK wrote:

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Those 555s are cheaper than french fries. Don't sweat it. If you're not
blowing stuff up, you're not learning anything (in the early stages
anyway).





--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 14:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:28:44 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be sold,
without prototypes.

I should hope so, too. That's your profession! I'm only speaking as a
long-time hobbyist.

LT Spice is free and (usually) makes a pretty good prediction of what
most circuits will do.

It also helps train your instincts, about what affects what, which is
helpful on the real thing.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[AK]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 15 May 2019 14:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:28:44 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be sold,
without prototypes.

I should hope so, too. That's your profession! I'm only speaking as a
long-time hobbyist.

LT Spice is free and (usually) makes a pretty good prediction of what
most circuits will do.

It also helps train your instincts, about what affects what, which is
helpful on the real thing.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

I am running Linux Ubuntu.

Will see if I can find it.

Andy

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 at 4:45:42 AM UTC-4, Look165 wrote:
> Only failures or mistakes  give a lesson !

From the nonsense that you post, I can see why you believe that. If it were true we would still be trying to develop the first tubes, and using Alexanderson Alternators to transmit Morse Code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexanderson_alternator

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-05-15, AK <scientist77017@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 14:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:28:44 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be sold,
without prototypes.

I should hope so, too. That's your profession! I'm only speaking as a
long-time hobbyist.

LT Spice is free and (usually) makes a pretty good prediction of what
most circuits will do.

It also helps train your instincts, about what affects what, which is
helpful on the real thing.

I am running Linux Ubuntu.
Will see if I can find it.

It's a free download from Analog Devices (Nee Linear technology)
It runs fairly well in wine. it has the advantage that most everone
here has convenient access to it, and that its save format is ascii
so can easily be posted on usenet.

gEDA and Kicad may also be worth a look.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 5/15/19 7:52 PM, AK wrote:

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2019 14:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2019 17:28:44 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

We do big, complex circuit boards that work first time, and can be sold,
without prototypes.

I should hope so, too. That's your profession! I'm only speaking as a
long-time hobbyist.

LT Spice is free and (usually) makes a pretty good prediction of what
most circuits will do.

It also helps train your instincts, about what affects what, which is
helpful on the real thing.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

I am running Linux Ubuntu.

Will see if I can find it.

Andy

LTspice works very well on Linux using Wine.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 5/15/19 5:31 PM, AK wrote:

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-5, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.



Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leak8ty4dsmw88e/Project2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edy9xs8p5rfm15q/Project1.jpg?dl=0

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Andy

Are you on a desert island? 555s in DIP packages cost pennies, and you
can have them in a day.

<https://www.newark.com/texas-instruments/sa555p/precision-timer-500khz-16v-8-dip/dp/08F4502?CMP=AFC-OP>

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[George Herold]

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:31:32 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-5, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.



Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leak8ty4dsmw88e/Project2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edy9xs8p5rfm15q/Project1.jpg?dl=0

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Andy

Hmm, I'm too lazy to check the wires... (and don't know the 555)
How about some capacitance (0.1uF) across the supply rail.
Maybe put some resistance in the power input to limit current..
~ 100 ohms?

How much current does the beeper draw when it's on?

Here's something done with a comparator or opamp.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gobqe2a4mfqvbuu/light-sens.JPG?dl=0

(the lower circuit scribble)
Comparator could be LM339 or similar.. but then needs a pull up resistor on
the open collector output.

George H.

 

[AK]

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-5, George Herold wrote:

On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:31:32 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-5, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.



Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leak8ty4dsmw88e/Project2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edy9xs8p5rfm15q/Project1.jpg?dl=0

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Andy

Hmm, I'm too lazy to check the wires... (and don't know the 555)
How about some capacitance (0.1uF) across the supply rail.
Maybe put some resistance in the power input to limit current..
~ 100 ohms?

How much current does the beeper draw when it's on?

Here's something done with a comparator or opamp.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gobqe2a4mfqvbuu/light-sens.JPG?dl=0

(the lower circuit scribble)
Comparator could be LM339 or similar.. but then needs a pull up resistor on
the open collector output.

George H.

I believe I have the circuit working. I had to replace the piezo buzzer with a led.

It now lights up in ambient light and turns off when I shine a laser on it.

I read that I need a field effect transistor in order to drive a buzzer.

Is that true?

Andy

 

[Look165]

First think, then act.

AK a Êcrit le 16/05/2019 à 16:17 :

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-5, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:31:32 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-5, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.


Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com
https://www.dropbox.com/s/leak8ty4dsmw88e/Project2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edy9xs8p5rfm15q/Project1.jpg?dl=0

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Andy
Hmm, I'm too lazy to check the wires... (and don't know the 555)
How about some capacitance (0.1uF) across the supply rail.
Maybe put some resistance in the power input to limit current..
~ 100 ohms?

How much current does the beeper draw when it's on?

Here's something done with a comparator or opamp.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gobqe2a4mfqvbuu/light-sens.JPG?dl=0

(the lower circuit scribble)
Comparator could be LM339 or similar.. but then needs a pull up resistor on
the open collector output.

George H.
I believe I have the circuit working. I had to replace the piezo buzzer with a led.

It now lights up in ambient light and turns off when I shine a laser on it.

I read that I need a field effect transistor in order to drive a buzzer.

Is that true?

Andy

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 10:17:30 AM UTC-4, AK wrote:

On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-5, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 5:31:32 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 2:46:05 PM UTC-5, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2019 19:22:56 -0700 (PDT), AK wrote:

Electronic can be quite frustrating.

I put together a circuit for a laser alarm.

It does not work.

There is no way to tell if a design will be successful even if you follow the authors exact directions.

I will keep plugging away and reading Practical Electronics for Inventors.



Can you post a picture of the assembly so that someone can check that
you have understood how to put the circuit together?

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

https://www.dropbox.com/s/leak8ty4dsmw88e/Project2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edy9xs8p5rfm15q/Project1.jpg?dl=0

The ne555p chip got fried. I got 0 volts at pins 3 and 6.

I have one left.

If someone can step me thru this, I will risk my last chip.

Andy

Hmm, I'm too lazy to check the wires... (and don't know the 555)
How about some capacitance (0.1uF) across the supply rail.
Maybe put some resistance in the power input to limit current..
~ 100 ohms?

How much current does the beeper draw when it's on?

Here's something done with a comparator or opamp.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gobqe2a4mfqvbuu/light-sens.JPG?dl=0

(the lower circuit scribble)
Comparator could be LM339 or similar.. but then needs a pull up resistor on
the open collector output.

George H.

I believe I have the circuit working. I had to replace the piezo buzzer with a led.

It now lights up in ambient light and turns off when I shine a laser on it.

I read that I need a field effect transistor in order to drive a buzzer.

Is that true?

Andy

Well it depends on the buzzer and the 555 (or other IC) output current.
(you have to read all the spec sheets)
But if there is not enough current.. then you can add some current gain
with a transistor (or a tube, or a relay, or...) it doesn't 'have' to be an
FET.

George H.