Focus: Ocean shippers playing catch up to electric vehicle fire risk...

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 4:34:40 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 2. august 2023 kl. 22.08.34 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs:
On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 3:23:18 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 10:51:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:28:07?AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 5:41:03?AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:22:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 05:58:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Another reason why import EVs are getting more expensive. Dunno how the Grimaldi shipping line even stays in business. They have procedures for the loaders to disconnect the battery once it\'s parked in the bay, but it looks like they\'re not doing that. Big money involved both in very expensive load of vehicles, as well as the ship in addition to expensive maritime firefighting and rescue. There\'s a big one now off the coast of Netherlands they\'re letting burn out.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ocean-shippers-playing-catch-up-electric-vehicle-fire-risk-2023-07-27/
Does disconnecting a battery make it any safer?
Everything produced by MSM is garbage. I suspect by \"disconnecting\" they mean disconnecting from the ship\'s charger. It may be they were leaving the vehicles on charge to expedite the offloading in minimum time. Time is money, and this industry is all about the money.
Charging onboard (the ship) would not make sense. They can just charge it higher before loading. If the problem is just for onboard charging, they can put them in isolated area with ejection ramps. Namely, just dump the car in the ocean in case of fire.

Everything ocean and sailing is the acid taste of abuse and environmental assault.
Oil rigs in the Gulf are terrible. Everything but 316ss corrodes.
Makes me think their charger cables are sending flakey data back to controller. They may be able to plate the pins/ receptacles to resist corrosion but not sure they\'ve developed a plating that can withstand a large number of times being removed and inserted. Dunno. Plus you know they\'re running them over with all the vehicles.
why would they be charging? and short of a nuclear reactor where would they even get the power to charge hundreds if not thousands of cars?

Ships have no problem generating megawatts of electric power. The fires are most likely associated with the ship\'s chargers or their abuse. What else could explain the sizable quantum leap in spontaneous EV fires. For unloading purposes it\'s understandable they want to ensure the EVs with bottleneck placement can move under their own power. Once they\'re out of the way, any defect car that can\'t move now has enough room to be pushed aside.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 4:34:40 PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 2. august 2023 kl. 22.08.34 UTC+2 skrev Fred Bloggs:
On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 3:23:18 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 10:51:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:28:07?AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 5:41:03?AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 10:22:22?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 05:58:21 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Another reason why import EVs are getting more expensive. Dunno how the Grimaldi shipping line even stays in business. They have procedures for the loaders to disconnect the battery once it\'s parked in the bay, but it looks like they\'re not doing that. Big money involved both in very expensive load of vehicles, as well as the ship in addition to expensive maritime firefighting and rescue. There\'s a big one now off the coast of Netherlands they\'re letting burn out.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ocean-shippers-playing-catch-up-electric-vehicle-fire-risk-2023-07-27/
Does disconnecting a battery make it any safer?
Everything produced by MSM is garbage. I suspect by \"disconnecting\" they mean disconnecting from the ship\'s charger. It may be they were leaving the vehicles on charge to expedite the offloading in minimum time. Time is money, and this industry is all about the money.
Charging onboard (the ship) would not make sense. They can just charge it higher before loading. If the problem is just for onboard charging, they can put them in isolated area with ejection ramps. Namely, just dump the car in the ocean in case of fire.

Everything ocean and sailing is the acid taste of abuse and environmental assault.
Oil rigs in the Gulf are terrible. Everything but 316ss corrodes.
Makes me think their charger cables are sending flakey data back to controller. They may be able to plate the pins/ receptacles to resist corrosion but not sure they\'ve developed a plating that can withstand a large number of times being removed and inserted. Dunno. Plus you know they\'re running them over with all the vehicles.
why would they be charging? and short of a nuclear reactor where would they even get the power to charge hundreds if not thousands of cars?

It should be noted Germany lost a big load of premium brand EVs, Mercedes and BMWs and others, the gold standard of automotive design, to one of these carrier fires. That almost certainly means it\'s not the EVs.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 5:55:36 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Aug 2023 02:57:03 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote in
9e6ed514-297c-4a48...@googlegroups.com>:

Not really. BEV batteries can be modular. Smaller main battery (5 to 10 K=
Wh) can be made very safe. Lower density cells are much safer. It should =
be enough for loading, unloading and local driving. If you need more range> >, add more modular batteries. That\'s how I run my Leaf.
You are wrong
https://www.google.com/search?q=spontaneous+fire+in+battery+powered+equipment

How do you know they were not charged or dropped hours ago? Well, it\'s not easy to drop an EV.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 5:43:37 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
46edc91f-e2b1-4d00...@googlegroups.com>:

Huh? I\'ve seen nothing about this fire that connects it to EVs. There was=
an initial report that has never been confirmed. That\'s not unusual that =
someone spouts BS in the initial excitement, only to find out it was not re=
al.

Well reported by the crew!
That boat is now being towed to Eemshaven here in the Netherlands, about 90 minutes drive from here.
Fire seems out now, no more smoke,, but they are not sure, so when it arrives more inspection will follow.
you see EV batteries contain a large amount
of fuel, and it seems that the firefighting on these ships is intended
with vehicles with only a small amount of fuel.

ships gonna need to be prepared.

I\'m not sure what you are talking about. My boat of a BEV has a 100 kWh ba=
ttery. A small car with a 15 gallon gas tank contains 500 kWh of energy. =
Seems to me the gas cars are the much higher risk on a boat. Not only is t=
here a lot more energy to deal with, gas fires require foam to fight. Put =
water on them, and the gas floats around all over the boat, burning on top =
of the water. Rivers of fire, running into drains and the bilge. No, not =
a good thing at all, unless you are looking to sink the boat and collect th=
e insurance money!

Gasoline cars do not normally go on fire by themselves.

Maybe that\'s why Kia and Hyundai have recalled nearly 100,000 ICE vehicles and issued warnings to not park them in or near structures?

The fire at Stavanger airport was determined to have started in a parked ICE. Your premise is busted!

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Aug 2023 20:15:55 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<374e79c9-aad5-47ba-bbe6-c3ead1f6f630n@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 5:43:37 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrot=
e:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky=

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
46edc91f-e2b1-4d00...@googlegroups.com>:

Huh? I\'ve seen nothing about this fire that connects it to EVs. There wa=
s=
an initial report that has never been confirmed. That\'s not unusual tha=
t =
someone spouts BS in the initial excitement, only to find out it was not=
re=
al.

Well reported by the crew!
That boat is now being towed to Eemshaven here in the Netherlands, about =
90 minutes drive from here.
Fire seems out now, no more smoke,, but they are not sure, so when it arr=
ives more inspection will follow.
you see EV batteries contain a large amount
of fuel, and it seems that the firefighting on these ships is intended=

with vehicles with only a small amount of fuel.

ships gonna need to be prepared.

I\'m not sure what you are talking about. My boat of a BEV has a 100 kWh =
ba=
ttery. A small car with a 15 gallon gas tank contains 500 kWh of energy.=
=
Seems to me the gas cars are the much higher risk on a boat. Not only is=
t=
here a lot more energy to deal with, gas fires require foam to fight. Pu=
t =
water on them, and the gas floats around all over the boat, burning on t=
op =
of the water. Rivers of fire, running into drains and the bilge. No, not=
=
a good thing at all, unless you are looking to sink the boat and collect=
th=
e insurance money!

Gasoline cars do not normally go on fire by themselves.

Maybe that\'s why Kia and Hyundai have recalled nearly 100,000 ICE vehicles =
and issued warnings to not park them in or near structures?

OK you have a point there, noted.
Keep it in a safe place!

The fire at Stavanger airport was determined to have started in a parked IC=
E. Your premise is busted!

We will have to wait for the inspection of that ship for what caused the fire this time.

 

[Flyguy]

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 3:12:36 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 5:43:37 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
46edc91f-e2b1-4d00...@googlegroups.com>:

Huh? I\'ve seen nothing about this fire that connects it to EVs. There was=
an initial report that has never been confirmed. That\'s not unusual that =
someone spouts BS in the initial excitement, only to find out it was not re=
al.

Well reported by the crew!
\"Crew\" being someone, unnamed, without a specific quote. This was only reported in the initial reports, and no one is repeating it, other than rumor mongers... like you.
That boat is now being towed to Eemshaven here in the Netherlands, about 90 minutes drive from here.
Fire seems out now, no more smoke,, but they are not sure, so when it arrives more inspection will follow.
Yes, some people think inspection should precede speculation, others don\'t.
you see EV batteries contain a large amount
of fuel, and it seems that the firefighting on these ships is intended
with vehicles with only a small amount of fuel.

ships gonna need to be prepared.

I\'m not sure what you are talking about. My boat of a BEV has a 100 kWh ba=
ttery. A small car with a 15 gallon gas tank contains 500 kWh of energy. =
Seems to me the gas cars are the much higher risk on a boat. Not only is t=
here a lot more energy to deal with, gas fires require foam to fight. Put =
water on them, and the gas floats around all over the boat, burning on top =
of the water. Rivers of fire, running into drains and the bilge. No, not =
a good thing at all, unless you are looking to sink the boat and collect th=
e insurance money!

Gasoline cars do not normally go on fire by themselves.
Except for the ones that do. Like at the Stavanger airport, in Norway, where hundreds of cars were destroyed and the parking structure was closed. \"Original reports indicated that the fire may have started in an electric vehicle; however, new information suggests it instead originated from an older diesel car that was parked in the garage.\"

This is typical, because it makes for better reporting.
\'lectic ones seem to have that habit though
That is your delusion, which is not supported by facts. In the US, the rate of fires per mile driven is three times higher for fossil fueled vehicles than electric vehicles. THREE TIMES!!!

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

We really don\'t know what the ratio of EV to ICE fire rates are because NO GOVERNMENT AGENCY TRACKS THEM! If you disagree, then PRODUCE THE NUMBERS and show WHERE you got them!! Any numbers you see are suspect and are likely generated from news stories. You are also comparing apples to oranges because the fleet age of EVs is much newer than ICE.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 3:26:22 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 3:12:36 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 5:43:37 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Aug 2023 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in <46edc91f-e2b1-4d00...@googlegroups..com>:

<snip>

Gasoline cars do not normally go on fire by themselves.
Except for the ones that do. Like at the Stavanger airport, in Norway, where hundreds of cars were destroyed and the parking structure was closed. \"Original reports indicated that the fire may have started in an electric vehicle; however, new information suggests it instead originated from an older diesel car that was parked in the garage.\"

This is typical, because it makes for better reporting.

\'lectic ones seem to have that habit though.
That is your delusion, which is not supported by facts. In the US, the rate of fires per mile driven is three times higher for fossil fueled vehicles than electric vehicles. THREE TIMES!!!

We really don\'t know what the ratio of EV to ICE fire rates are because NO GOVERNMENT AGENCY TRACKS THEM! If you disagree, then PRODUCE THE NUMBERS and show WHERE you got them!! Any numbers you see are suspect and are likely generated from news stories. You are also comparing apples to oranges because the fleet age of EVs is much newer than ICE.

https://insideevs.com/news/561549/study-evs-smallest-fire-risk/

does seem to be the evidence you asked for. It\'s an auto-insurance trade magazine rather than a government agency and it says the ICE cars a 61 times more likely to catch on fire than pure electric vehicles.
Auto-insurance companies would be expected to have better data faster than anybody else, even if you didn\'t think to search for ti.

Hybrid seen to be worse than either.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney