Florescent light bulbs?

[Eeyore]

Rich Grise wrote:

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:02:21 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote in message

"Well, you shouldn't discount all that free electric heating you get
with incandescents (it's free, because you've already attributed the
cost to lighting). In the winter that waves on fuel bills, and in the
summer it help our airconditioners run longer, to efficiently
dehumidify the air."

It's only "free" if you have electric heat rather than natural gas or fuel
oil, both of which are cheaper. Even then, it's arguably not quite as good
as
a floor heater, since most of the heat will stay up on the ceiling where the
lamp is rather than being forced down to circulate among the people -- I
imagine draftier homes or a ceiling fan may mitigate this, however.

That being said, for people with electric heating, in winter I think running
a few spare PCs on BOINC or something similar is a pretty good idea!

In my shop, our CPUs ran so hot we had to air condition the
room even in winter.

I have an office like that: 9'4" x 9'6", 8-foot ceiling, and I leave all 4
computers running, and even if it gets down to the 40's, when I come in in
the morning, it's always nice and cozy-warm. If it gets too warm, I just
open the door - it opens out onto an unheated factory.

Speaking of fluorescent lights, just a couple of months ago they got a guy
to redo my ceiling light (which is obnoxiously bright, but there's not
much I can do about it), and the guy refurbished this 8-foot fixture with
iron ballast; he took the ballast and even the socket thingies out, and
installed new socket thingies and electronic ballasts, and essentially
turned the 8' fixture into two 4' fixtures end-to-end. He also gave me
one of those screw-in fluorescents for my desk lamp.

Since the PHB is so cheap, I'm ass-u-me-ing that he's expecting a
significant savings on lighting.

LOL ! The world works in funny ways.

My only real objection to CFLs is theway - at least over here - that their
equivalence to an incandescent buld is overstated.

It's common to say they're 5 times as efficient but I'd say more like 4 times. If
you read the small print apparently they're apparently being compared to bulbs
with a 'warm light'.

IME it takes at least a 23W CFL to equal a 100W incandescent and sadly these
aren't the ones being sold for 49 pence.

I have one room where I really like a 150W bulb to light it decently and there's
no direct equivalent for that.

I came across this though.............
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/525w-LIGHT-OUTPUT-ENVIROLITE-TYPE-BULB-HYDROPONICS_W0QQitemZ120060721104QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20706QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Now that should light a workshop nicely !
http://i22.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/e5/45/06_1.JPG

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

jasen wrote:

On 2006-12-07, Joel Kolstad <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.com> wrote in message

Right. A florescent bulb costs $9.99, 40kWh costs diddly, and so does an
incandescent bulb.

I believe the 4 packs of GE compact fluorescents are $9.99 at your local Wally
World --> $2.50 each.

I haven't seen the kind of prices Graham is quoting for non-"no name" bulbs.

I have, maybe it's cheaper to buuild them for 240V operation. Or maybe it's
a socialist plot!

In the UK some CFLs get a government subsidy to encourage ppl to use them. Kyoto and
all that - except of course the USA doesn't do Kyoto.

I even got 2 free ones from the power utility as part of this scheme.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

jasen wrote:

On 2006-12-07, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
CoreyWhite wrote:

the pure H20 steam from nuclear power plants is a greeen
house gas

Nuclear power plants don't give off steam.

the cooling towers emit water vapour, which is basically the same stuff.

It's not *steam* though.

It's astonishing how many ppl think steam is visible too.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Rich Grise wrote:

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 21:11:44 +0000, jasen wrote:
On 2006-12-08, Elder <carl.robson@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote:
In article <zy9eh.42$45.297@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu says...
Solar heat evaporates annually some 2-3*10^14 tons of water. Compare
this with any amount of water you'll be producing. Some sense of
proportion is needed.

Amount of water per vehicle per day might be minimal, but multiply that
by millions of vehicles per day it might make a small difference.

how much water do petroleum fueled vehicles produce?


2C8H18 + 25O2 -> 16CO2 + 18H20

That's with octane - you can do the same with any hydrocarbon.

Hope This Helps!

C2H5OH + 3O2 -> 2CO2 + 3H2O

Interesting. Ethanol produces a smaller percentage of CO2 pro-rata compared to
the alkenes.

Whereas butanol goes slightly the other way.

C4H9OH + 6O2 -> 4CO2 + 5H2O

Graham

 

[Alan]

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 06:21:32 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have one room where I really like a 150W bulb to light it decently and there's
no direct equivalent for that.

We have acompany over here (Australia) that manfactures a 48w
(=240W(?)) compact fluoro about half the size on the one on e-bay. I
use on in my office and it's great!

They have a (completely useless) web site - http://nelsonlamps.com.au
but they may be able to give you a link to someone where you are.

Alan

--
Sell your surplus electronic components at
http://ozcomponents.com
Search or browse for that IC, capacitor,
crystal or other component you need.
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion
groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble!
-- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ----

 

[Eeyore]

Alan wrote:

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 06:21:32 +0000, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have one room where I really like a 150W bulb to light it decently and there's
no direct equivalent for that.

We have acompany over here (Australia) that manfactures a 48w
(=240W(?)) compact fluoro about half the size on the one on e-bay. I
use on in my office and it's great!

They have a (completely useless) web site - http://nelsonlamps.com.au
but they may be able to give you a link to someone where you are.

Thanks for that Alan.

I browsed eBay a bit longer and finally found the kind of thing I was looking for. I
could't have been looking hard enough before.

I found some CFLs at 30, 45 and 65 W
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280058375469&rd=1&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280058068352&rd=1&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280058067410&rd=1&rd=1

I'm sceptical that the 30W is really as bright as a normal 150W incandescent myself,
so I reckon I'll go for a 45W.


Graham

 

[Troia]

Eeyore wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
....
That being said, for people with electric heating, in winter I think running
a few spare PCs on BOINC or something similar is a pretty good idea!
In my shop, our CPUs ran so hot we had to air condition the
room even in winter.

I was recently pleased to discover that the 500 and 600 MHz Pentium 3 CPUs I have
can be cooled perfectly adequately without forced cooling.

At least that's one less fan to make noise and wear out.

Graham

Do you short out the fan header or what?

Most of the mobo's I've seen for P3's will not power-on without the CPU
fan connected, among other things.

-- Troia

 

[Eeyore]

Troia wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
...
That being said, for people with electric heating, in winter I think running
a few spare PCs on BOINC or something similar is a pretty good idea!
In my shop, our CPUs ran so hot we had to air condition the
room even in winter.

I was recently pleased to discover that the 500 and 600 MHz Pentium 3 CPUs I > have
can be cooled perfectly adequately without forced cooling.

At least that's one less fan to make noise and wear out.

Graham

Do you short out the fan header or what?

Most of the mobo's I've seen for P3's will not power-on without the CPU
fan connected, among other things.

That's normally controlled by the CMOS settings. Why don't you take a peek at them ?

I bought this old PC simply because I wanted another MX440 AGP graphics card and it
worked out just as cheap ( Ł10 on eBay - local collection ) to buy a whole PC with one
fitted !

In the meantime my 'good' PC started acting up ( probably the 'bad caps' scenario - the
mobo is known to have been affected ) so I powered up this one to use for real.

The 500MHz cpu that came with it never had a fan in the first place which surprised me
as they were supposedly the power hogs of the day but it has a substantial 'passive'
convection heatsink that does the job just fine.

I happened to have a 600MHz P3 too and fitted that. The fan wire wasn't long enough so
I tried it as was and it's fine !


Graham

 

[jasen]

On 2006-12-10, Richard Henry <pomerado@hotmail.com> wrote:

He did claim responsibility for it though, which was absurd enough.

If you read the actual words, he claimed to have financed it.

well, authorised the finance, ultimately they were tax dollars.

Bye.
Jasen

 

In article <pan.2006.12.09.20.41.57.794419@example.net>,
Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:03:25 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
In article <4tvtmmF15ehi2U1@mid.individual.net>,
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
mensanator@aol.com> wrote in message
No, warmer air due to lighting makes the thermostat kick on
less often reducing your consumption of gas or fuel oil.

Sure, but it's still cheaper to buy 1kWh of heat from the gas or fuel oil
company than it is from the electric company!

A more interesting comparison might be how efficiently you can light a
room
with gas!

BOOM! Quite efficiently, but all the light shines at the same time.

Light and heat and improved ventilation

grin> Yep.

Nah - if you learn to light one properly, the deflagration front is
contained within millimeters of the mantle. ;-)

I have watched people fill the auto gas tank. Despite all warnings
I've seen men and women hanging onto a cigarette while doing so.

I think the 'if' in your sentence should be spelled IFF.

/BAH

 

In article <pan.2006.12.09.20.48.35.185183@example.net>,
Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:02:21 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
In article <12nj57if9d6kjd0@corp.supernews.com>,
"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1165570499.565527.274790@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"Well, you shouldn't discount all that free electric heating you get
with incandescents (it's free, because you've already attributed the
cost to lighting). In the winter that waves on fuel bills, and in the
summer it help our airconditioners run longer, to efficiently
dehumidify the air."

It's only "free" if you have electric heat rather than natural gas or fuel
oil, both of which are cheaper. Even then, it's arguably not quite as good
as
a floor heater, since most of the heat will stay up on the ceiling where
the
lamp is rather than being forced down to circulate among the people -- I
imagine draftier homes or a ceiling fan may mitigate this, however.

That being said, for people with electric heating, in winter I think
running
a
few spare PCs on BOINC or something similar is a pretty good idea!

In my shop, our CPUs ran so hot we had to air condition the
room even in winter.


I have an office like that: 9'4" x 9'6", 8-foot ceiling, and I leave all 4
computers running, and even if it gets down to the 40's, when I come in in
the morning, it's always nice and cozy-warm. If it gets too warm, I just
open the door - it opens out onto an unheated factory.

Speaking of fluorescent lights, just a couple of months ago they got a guy
to redo my ceiling light (which is obnoxiously bright, but there's not
much I can do about it), and the guy refurbished this 8-foot fixture with
iron ballast; he took the ballast and even the socket thingies out, and
installed new socket thingies and electronic ballasts, and essentially
turned the 8' fixture into two 4' fixtures end-to-end. He also gave me
one of those screw-in fluorescents for my desk lamp.

Since the PHB is so cheap, I'm ass-u-me-ing that he's expecting a
significant savings on lighting.

I'd go bonkers in your office. I always had the flurescent bulbs
above my office taken out. I could see their flicker even though
no one else could.

/BAH

 

In article <mQGeh.50$45.182@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <elebeh$8ss_001@s907.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <4579A6ED.ED344467@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


Joel Kolstad wrote:

"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote

"Well, you shouldn't discount all that free electric heating you get
with incandescents (it's free, because you've already attributed the
cost to lighting). In the winter that waves on fuel bills, and in the
summer it help our airconditioners run longer, to efficiently
dehumidify the air."

It's only "free" if you have electric heat rather than natural gas or
fuel
oil, both of which are cheaper. Even then, it's arguably not quite as
good
as
a floor heater, since most of the heat will stay up on the ceiling where
the
lamp is rather than being forced down to circulate among the people -- I
imagine draftier homes or a ceiling fan may mitigate this, however.

That being said, for people with electric heating, in winter I think
running a
few spare PCs on BOINC or something similar is a pretty good idea!

Unless I have an electric heater on or the washing machine, my largest
electrical
load now is easily the PC.


When my disk died, I moved to a Toshiba laptop that has one of those
energy star labels on the cover. My power usage dropped 100Kwh/month.

I think it was the terminal that was using most of the power.

It was, with CRT terminals. Since those are disappearing by now,

My $500 terminal is now a dinosaur?! I can't keep up with this
biz.

the
worries expressed in this thread about the energy wasted by
screensavers are, if not misplaced, then at least vastly exaggerated.

hmmm...I never thought about screensavers' functionality w.r.t.
the new [emoticon hunts for term]display technology. I don't
know much about it. Are you implying that the displays can't get
burnt in?

It that's not clear, tell me and I'll try again tomorrow. I'm thinking
through the fourth bout of the dumb flu.

/BAH

 

In article <elghuj$1ll$4@jasen.is-a-geek.org>,
jasen <jasen@free.net.nz> wrote:

On 2006-12-10, Richard Henry <pomerado@hotmail.com> wrote:

He did claim responsibility for it though, which was absurd enough.

If you read the actual words, he claimed to have financed it.

well, authorised the finance, ultimately they were tax dollars.

It was a fee which keeps going up and up and up and up. What
was important about the bill he co-sponsored was to lift
the wall between defense and commercial net pathing. Then
the real work could begin.

/BAH

 

In article <1165704629.350268.58870@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>,
"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:

mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:

In article <elebeh$8ss_001@s907.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In artic
I think it was the terminal that was using most of the power.

It was, with CRT terminals. Since those are disappearing by now, the
worries expressed in this thread about the energy wasted by
screensavers are, if not misplaced, then at least vastly exaggerated.

And even with CRT's, with modern computers. I had a vintage '99
machine now replaced by a vintage '05 machine, both with CRT's, and I
know that when the machines went to sleep (blank screen) the CRT's
stayed cool. Then, you did say "screen savers"... I guess if you
configure your PC in order to watch bouncing globes on a CRT during all
its idle hours, that's your business.

The reason for changing the images was to save money. CRTs were
fucking expensive and getting a .RUN FOO burnt into the upper
left hand corner was not a Good Thing.

OTOH, I can see that in a modern office building, there must have been
some time window when concern about the power consumption of 1000's of
idling CRT's would have been a legitimate concern.

Yup. Whenever I got the call to power down to prevent blackouts
or rolling xxxxouts, my first task was to turn off all TTYs in
empty offices. Then I'd go to the computer room and turn off
unessential gear..which wasn't very much...that wouldn't be damaged
if they got cold.

/BAH

 

[psdayama]

80%?? No way!! That is like a FREE ENERGY MACHINE!!! Are you telling
me that we can take what's left over from the 20% of the energy it
uses, and use it to power the rest of the appliances in our house?? WHO
NEEDS SOLAR POWER!!!

Everybody needs solar power! It is very correct statement that CFL
saves
80% power but they cost whopping 3-4 times the GLS lamps. Also the ones
which save 80% have electronics ballasts and those costing 2-3 times
have
somewhat 'electrical' types. They save only 40% power. & slow to give
full
output.
Whereas I used to switch on 40W bulb for dim lighting the room
where I
got the PC, now I use only 8W CFL and get better light also save so
much
power. In fact I have replaced all 'zero' bulbs (15W) with 5Watt CFL
and they
are good and truly ZERO!
Many chinese devices are available which use these CFL and once
charged
for 8hrs give 5Hrs lighting for 6days! So now U know who needs solar !

 

In article <1165758306.029471.201970@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
"psdayama" <psdayama@gmail.com> wrote:

80%?? No way!! That is like a FREE ENERGY MACHINE!!! Are you telling
me that we can take what's left over from the 20% of the energy it
uses, and use it to power the rest of the appliances in our house?? WHO
NEEDS SOLAR POWER!!!

Everybody needs solar power! It is very correct statement that CFL
saves
80% power but they cost whopping 3-4 times the GLS lamps. Also the ones
which save 80% have electronics ballasts and those costing 2-3 times
have
somewhat 'electrical' types. They save only 40% power. & slow to give
full
output.
Whereas I used to switch on 40W bulb for dim lighting the room
where I
got the PC, now I use only 8W CFL and get better light also save so
much
power. In fact I have replaced all 'zero' bulbs (15W) with 5Watt CFL
and they
are good and truly ZERO!
Many chinese devices are available which use these CFL and once
charged
for 8hrs give 5Hrs lighting for 6days! So now U know who needs solar !

I'm confused. Six of my days is more than 5 hours long.
Am I in a time warp and didn't know it?

/BAH

 

[Eeyore]

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:03:25 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:

A more interesting comparison might be how efficiently you can light a
room with gas!

BOOM! Quite efficiently, but all the light shines at the same time.

Light and heat and improved ventilation

grin> Yep.

Nah - if you learn to light one properly, the deflagration front is
contained within millimeters of the mantle. ;-)

I have watched people fill the auto gas tank. Despite all warnings
I've seen men and women hanging onto a cigarette while doing so.

Americans ! They probably use cellphones while refuelling too.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

Speaking of fluorescent lights, just a couple of months ago they got a guy
to redo my ceiling light (which is obnoxiously bright, but there's not
much I can do about it), and the guy refurbished this 8-foot fixture with
iron ballast; he took the ballast and even the socket thingies out, and
installed new socket thingies and electronic ballasts, and essentially
turned the 8' fixture into two 4' fixtures end-to-end. He also gave me
one of those screw-in fluorescents for my desk lamp.

Since the PHB is so cheap, I'm ass-u-me-ing that he's expecting a
significant savings on lighting.

I'd go bonkers in your office. I always had the flurescent bulbs
above my office taken out. I could see their flicker even though
no one else could.

Electronic ballasts don't make a flickery light.

Graham

 

In article <457C1316.2F1B97DA@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:03:25 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:

A more interesting comparison might be how efficiently you can light a
room with gas!

BOOM! Quite efficiently, but all the light shines at the same time.

Light and heat and improved ventilation

grin> Yep.

Nah - if you learn to light one properly, the deflagration front is
contained within millimeters of the mantle. ;-)

I have watched people fill the auto gas tank. Despite all warnings
I've seen men and women hanging onto a cigarette while doing so.

Americans ! They probably use cellphones while refuelling too.

Having watched the current misusage of those things, I would
not be surprised if they use them during sex.

/BAH

 

[T Wake]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:457C1316.2F1B97DA@hotmail.com...

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 14:03:25 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
"Joel Kolstad" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:

A more interesting comparison might be how efficiently you can light
a
room with gas!

BOOM! Quite efficiently, but all the light shines at the same time.

Light and heat and improved ventilation

grin> Yep.

Nah - if you learn to light one properly, the deflagration front is
contained within millimeters of the mantle. ;-)

I have watched people fill the auto gas tank. Despite all warnings
I've seen men and women hanging onto a cigarette while doing so.

Americans ! They probably use cellphones while refuelling too.

Not as dangerous as it is made out.