Favourite parts with off-label uses?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:20:49 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

I had excellent success with toner transfer, handling 0.6mm pin-pitch
parts easily, when I was using my ancient HP LJ6L. That finally died,
and the replacement HP2055DN produces a porous checker-plate that's
visible only under magnification. I haven't worked out how to stop it
doing that, but the etchant gets through the tiny gaps, even if I use
the toner transfer foil. Perhaps I'll have another go at it, I've only
tried etching once (printing many times, but only one seemed good enough
to etch.

Methinks you mean the HP P2055DN printer. Here are the setting
involved in adjusting the print density and resolution.

1. Resolution: Set it to "ProRes 1200" for highest quality. If it
starts to fill in component holes, back it off to "Fast Res 1200".

2. RET: Resolution Enhancement Technology. I don't recall exactly
what this does, but try toggling it to see what effect it has.

3. Print Density: Higher numbers are denser or darker. Lower
numbers are less dense and lighter. I think higher is what you want.

4. Econo Mode: Save toner but produces "thin" characters. Turn it
off.

5. Try switching between PCL5c and Postscript. Each has its own
"smoothing" algorithm which might affect print density. I suspect PS
will be smoother, but incredibly slow to print.

Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 9/4/20 11:56 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:20:49 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

I had excellent success with toner transfer, handling 0.6mm pin-pitch
parts easily, when I was using my ancient HP LJ6L. That finally died,
and the replacement HP2055DN produces a porous checker-plate that's
visible only under magnification. I haven't worked out how to stop it
doing that, but the etchant gets through the tiny gaps, even if I use
the toner transfer foil. Perhaps I'll have another go at it, I've only
tried etching once (printing many times, but only one seemed good enough
to etch.

Methinks you mean the HP P2055DN printer. Here are the setting
involved in adjusting the print density and resolution.

1. Resolution: Set it to "ProRes 1200" for highest quality. If it
starts to fill in component holes, back it off to "Fast Res 1200".

2. RET: Resolution Enhancement Technology. I don't recall exactly
what this does, but try toggling it to see what effect it has.

3. Print Density: Higher numbers are denser or darker. Lower
numbers are less dense and lighter. I think higher is what you want.

4. Econo Mode: Save toner but produces "thin" characters. Turn it
off.

5. Try switching between PCL5c and Postscript. Each has its own
"smoothing" algorithm which might affect print density. I suspect PS
will be smoother, but incredibly slow to print.

Jeff,

Many thanks for that input. Pretty sure I've been through all the
options previously - definitely Print Density, Econo Mode and Resolution
Enhancement. I think ProRes1200 but cannot recall for sure.

I can't see how to switch between PS and PCL5c (using the Mac OSX print
dialog to print a PDF).

In addition to a PCB, I had produced a document with a grey-scale
rectangle to check the printer, and spent most of a day playing with
settings in Kicad, OSX and the printer to get, at the end, a
disappointing result.

Kicad users beware: Print and Plot are completely different output
modules with very different quality results.

It could be the after-market toner, of course. A genuine HP cartridge is
$152 ($280 for high yield), compared to $19 ($25) for after-market.
Guess which I chose? Maybe I should try a different cheap cartridge, or
take a USB stick to some place where I can try it with genuine toner.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 9/4/20 2:56 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:49:31 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
Two more for the list:
6. The printer driver has a "type of paper" setting

I'll try that, but I doubt it will fix the symptoms I'm seeing.

7. Run a test or demo page on the P2055DN from the printer and NOT
from the computah. If the demo page doesn't have any "holes"

See below.

I can't see how to switch between PS and PCL5c (using the Mac OSX print
dialog to print a PDF).
You'll probably need to install a 2nd printer driver in MacOS. One
for PS and the other for PCL5c.

I don't recall having to install a first printer driver. Maybe I did and
just can't recall, it was almost two years ago. Probably Apple automated it.

... a disappointing result.
I'm curious. What part of the resulting prints were disappointing?

See <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm87qcu2imydbja/HpPrint.png?dl=0>
Scanned at 1200DPI on a good Epson scanner, the upper band is part of
the solid black banner on a test page, the lower section is from part of
a PCB.

I can't see the checker-plate pattern in these ones (that might be the
1200dpi setting), just the blotchiness.

Can't etch from it anyhow.

Much of the print quality is in the toner cartridge, imaging drum, and
the fuser. Mostly, the imaging drum.

I suspect this drum.

> The P2055DN is not what I would consider a good printer.

As a user, I don't mind it, it does what I want... except for this, and
I'm not blaming HP for that.

Kicad users beware: Print and Plot are completely different output
modules with very different quality results.

Yup. For the P2055DN, print means PCL5c or Postscript.

No. These are Kicad actions that *both* produce PDF files - no printer
in sight at that point.

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/53bova20c1vf9rs/KicadFileMenu.png?dl=0>

It could be the after-market toner, of course. A genuine HP cartridge is
$152 ($280 for high yield), compared to $19 ($25) for after-market.
Guess which I chose?

NBC... Nothing But Cheapest.

Hell, the whole printer was only $AU300, refurbished.

Maybe I should try a different cheap cartridge, or
take a USB stick to some place where I can try it with genuine toner.

I would try both a different cheap cart and a different printer. The
original problem I was trying to address was "holes" in the printed
image visible with a microscope. However, reading between your lines,
it seems that there might be other problems related to the printer.

I suspect the drum. The whole thing with extended toner was only $AU50.
I'll be happy to spend more *if* I know it will fix the problem.

I had such good results with the ancient PH LJ6 and refilled print
cartridges, so I hoped for better this time.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:49:31 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

On 9/4/20 11:56 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:20:49 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:

I had excellent success with toner transfer, handling 0.6mm pin-pitch
parts easily, when I was using my ancient HP LJ6L. That finally died,
and the replacement HP2055DN produces a porous checker-plate that's
visible only under magnification. I haven't worked out how to stop it
doing that, but the etchant gets through the tiny gaps, even if I use
the toner transfer foil. Perhaps I'll have another go at it, I've only
tried etching once (printing many times, but only one seemed good enough
to etch.

Methinks you mean the HP P2055DN printer. Here are the setting
involved in adjusting the print density and resolution.

1. Resolution: Set it to "ProRes 1200" for highest quality. If it
starts to fill in component holes, back it off to "Fast Res 1200".

2. RET: Resolution Enhancement Technology. I don't recall exactly
what this does, but try toggling it to see what effect it has.

3. Print Density: Higher numbers are denser or darker. Lower
numbers are less dense and lighter. I think higher is what you want.

4. Econo Mode: Save toner but produces "thin" characters. Turn it
off.

5. Try switching between PCL5c and Postscript. Each has its own
"smoothing" algorithm which might affect print density. I suspect PS
will be smoother, but incredibly slow to print.

Many thanks for that input. Pretty sure I've been through all the
options previously - definitely Print Density, Econo Mode and Resolution
Enhancement. I think ProRes1200 but cannot recall for sure.

Two more for the list:

6. The printer driver has a "type of paper" setting in the "Paper
Handling" menu. I don't know what type of paper you're using but try
everything from glossy to sandpaper and various thickness. When
experimenting, roll the printed page a little to check if the toner
has been properly fused to the paper. The toner on shiny glossy paper
tends to fall off in large flakes.

7. Run a test or demo page on the P2055DN from the printer and NOT
from the computah. If the demo page doesn't have any "holes" in the
large black graphics areas, then the computah print driver is telling
the printer to put holes in those areas. To print the demo page (not
the config pages), push the "Go" button when the "Ready" light is on
and nothing else is printing.

I can't see how to switch between PS and PCL5c (using the Mac OSX print
dialog to print a PDF).

You'll probably need to install a 2nd printer driver in MacOS. One
for PS and the other for PCL5c. I could probably figure it out if I
had a MacOS machine handy. However, I left my ancient MacBook at my
office, which is essentially inaccessible. Sorry.

In addition to a PCB, I had produced a document with a grey-scale
rectangle to check the printer, and spent most of a day playing with
settings in Kicad, OSX and the printer to get, at the end, a
disappointing result.

I'm curious. What part of the resulting prints were disappointing?
Much of the print quality is in the toner cartridge, imaging drum, and
the fuser. Mostly, the imaging drum. If it's burnt, scored, uneven,
or otherwise deteriorated, no amount of adjusting the printer settings
is going to produce an even gray scale and high resolution print.

The P2055DN is not what I would consider a good printer. Mechanically,
they are difficult to take apart. Electrically, I've seen a few
defective and intermittent (crappy soldering) formatter boards on the
similar P2015DN etc models. It might be useful to borrow a different
printer and see if some of the problems disappear.

Kicad users beware: Print and Plot are completely different output
modules with very different quality results.

Yup. For the P2055DN, print means PCL5c or Postscript. Plot HPGL
(actually HP-GL/2), which the P2055DN does not support. Data sheet
at:
<http://www.i-print.com.hk/datasheet/LJ%20P2055.pdf>
Languages and fonts: HP PCL6, HP PCL5c, HP postscript
level 3 emulation; automatic language switching;
45 scalable TrueType fonts and 35 PostScriptŽ fonts

It could be the after-market toner, of course. A genuine HP cartridge is
$152 ($280 for high yield), compared to $19 ($25) for after-market.
Guess which I chose?

NBC... Nothing But Cheapest.

Maybe I should try a different cheap cartridge, or
take a USB stick to some place where I can try it with genuine toner.

I would try both a different cheap cart and a different printer. The
original problem I was trying to address was "holes" in the printed
image visible with a microscope. However, reading between your lines,
it seems that there might be other problems related to the printer.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

The other noise source used in wideband jammers was a 931 PMT illuminated by a 4 Watt fluorescent lamp via an iris.

Having seen what happens when a student at work uses too much gain or too much laser excitation on a confocal microscope, I can understand and believe in that configuration.

My old RSGB handbook
shows festoon lamps and HV rectifier vacuum tubes as noise sources. Evidently Sylvania made a small "end cap" diode designed to match into a coaxial line at one time.


Steve

 

[George Herold]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:01:28 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 9/4/20 12:34 am, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:31:41 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 8/4/20 1:51 pm, Clifford Heath wrote:
Ok with 12V, 2.6mA through the BFR93A's b-e, it zeners at 5.8V.

Two stages of amplification is possibly too much - the noise is
assymetrical around 0V, see this scope photo:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bmjnhm988160zjc/NoiseScope%20BFR93A%202.5mA%202xERA3.jpg?dl=0

I guess I need to reduce gain somewhat?
Hi Cliff, I'm not at all a HF noise guy.
(So listen to Gerhard and not me .:^)
But the non-symmetry is typical. You might want to look at the
signal as a function of the bias current. That is your 'best' knob.

Oh, good to know, it didn't seem right that the ERA-3's could be
producing this on overload. it makes sens that it's typical zener behaviour.

I haven't investigated the spectrum yet.
How fast a 'scope do you have? Have you tried triggering on the
noise (pulses) With a DSO you can average the pulses/ noise peaks
and get a pseudo-spectrum... at least a guess at the max freq.

500MHz Tek 7904, with all the nice plug-in's . No, I haven't tried
triggering on it. But the noise looks almost the same regardless of the
timebase, so that's a good sign.

OK, it's kinda fun to look at the AC behavior of zeners as a function of
current. There were some nice long threads here about that back in the
90's?? (Before my time here, but I read the posts with interest...
there's also a nice article by McKay (sp?) at bell labs.
Hmm searching SED for { Zener-noise (current) } gets a lot of hits.
and some thread about 'Zener diode oscillation' in '97. but I couldn't
get google to find it for me.

Oh this article,
https://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/10.1103/PhysRev.94.877

George H.

But I also have a HackRF and I'm not ashamed to use it as a spectrum
analyser.

Clifford Heath.

 

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 16:39:04 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:20:56 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 8/4/20 10:22 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 08.04.20 um 05:51 schrieb Clifford Heath:
On 8/4/20 12:39 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Getting closer to saturation
than 20 dB will damage the crest ratio / noise statistics.
Right. Not sure what that will do to the spectrum though?

No idea. But a customer of mine had some problems with the
autocorrelation of pseudo-noise for ranging purposes. The measured > S-curve did not look so triangle-like as it was supposed to be.

We'll see how the resistor noise looks. I'm just worried that much
amplification will show the noise of the first ERA3, or power supply or
ambient noise that I haven't filtered or screened out.

I'm using 0805 resistors but not series inductors, for now. Will that
affect flatness (rather than just lose some gain)?

Pure resistance from high VCC is probably easier for the beginning.
Use smaller R in series, it's a matter of C over the resistor vs. C from
resistor to GND. You get predictability and spend VCC.

I could easily put a tiny wire loop inductor in series after the R, at
risk of coupling to the next stage and singing. That should help at GHz.

I had quite good success with home etching, it helps during the lock-down.

I had excellent success with toner transfer, handling 0.6mm pin-pitch
parts easily, when I was using my ancient HP LJ6L. That finally died,
and the replacement HP2055DN produces a porous checker-plate that's
visible only under magnification. I haven't worked out how to stop it
doing that, but the etchant gets through the tiny gaps, even if I use
the toner transfer foil. Perhaps I'll have another go at it, I've only
tried etching once (printing many times, but only one seemed good enough
to etch.

I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores. The lacquer itself, meanwhile,
can be easily removed with alcohol, but the toner's pores seem to
stay filled.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

2) A variation of the above is to spray the lacquer, then transfer
the toner almost immediately, before the lacquer dries. The lacquer
itself grabs the toner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dpCi9kgpuw

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

Cheers,
James Arthur

If I can't Dremel copperclad, I lay out a 4-layer board and order it
quick-turn. All that homebrew PCB stuff is messy and tedious, and you
wind up with low-res boards with no gold plate, no solder mask, no
planes, no plated vias, and no silk. And a lot of drilling.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 10:53:35 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 16:39:04 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:20:56 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 8/4/20 10:22 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 08.04.20 um 05:51 schrieb Clifford Heath:
On 8/4/20 12:39 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Getting closer to saturation
than 20 dB will damage the crest ratio / noise statistics.
Right. Not sure what that will do to the spectrum though?

No idea. But a customer of mine had some problems with the
autocorrelation of pseudo-noise for ranging purposes. The measured > S-curve did not look so triangle-like as it was supposed to be.

We'll see how the resistor noise looks. I'm just worried that much
amplification will show the noise of the first ERA3, or power supply or
ambient noise that I haven't filtered or screened out.

I'm using 0805 resistors but not series inductors, for now. Will that
affect flatness (rather than just lose some gain)?

Pure resistance from high VCC is probably easier for the beginning.
Use smaller R in series, it's a matter of C over the resistor vs. C from
resistor to GND. You get predictability and spend VCC.

I could easily put a tiny wire loop inductor in series after the R, at
risk of coupling to the next stage and singing. That should help at GHz.

I had quite good success with home etching, it helps during the lock-down.

I had excellent success with toner transfer, handling 0.6mm pin-pitch
parts easily, when I was using my ancient HP LJ6L. That finally died,
and the replacement HP2055DN produces a porous checker-plate that's
visible only under magnification. I haven't worked out how to stop it
doing that, but the etchant gets through the tiny gaps, even if I use
the toner transfer foil. Perhaps I'll have another go at it, I've only
tried etching once (printing many times, but only one seemed good enough
to etch.

I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores. The lacquer itself, meanwhile,
can be easily removed with alcohol, but the toner's pores seem to
stay filled.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

2) A variation of the above is to spray the lacquer, then transfer
the toner almost immediately, before the lacquer dries. The lacquer
itself grabs the toner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dpCi9kgpuw

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

If I can't Dremel copperclad, I lay out a 4-layer board and order it
quick-turn. All that homebrew PCB stuff is messy and tedious, and you
wind up with low-res boards with no gold plate, no solder mask, no
planes, no plated vias, and no silk. And a lot of drilling.

It's not that bad, really, and sometimes it's handier than waiting.

Since toner transfer turned fickle I've mostly Dremel'd too. But while
toner transfer was working it was a lot faster than Dremeling, with
much better resolution, and it was easy to make two or three on a panel.

With surface mount these days I don't drill at all, mostly. A few holes
to access the ground side, at most.

How do you make holes? I use an OLD Dremel drill stand that keeps the
Dremel fixed & raises and lowers the bed. There's no wobble in it.
Doesn't break carbide drill bits. Magic.

It makes a huge difference drilling when drilling is trivial and quick.

Don't use the new Dremel drill presses for this, or you'll snap one
bit per hole. On the plus side, I use the broken bits for manual
board Dremeling, making fine cuts and traces. They're the bees' knees.

Cheers,
James

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 10:53:35 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 16:39:04 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:20:56 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 8/4/20 10:22 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 08.04.20 um 05:51 schrieb Clifford Heath:
On 8/4/20 12:39 pm, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Getting closer to saturation
than 20 dB will damage the crest ratio / noise statistics.
Right. Not sure what that will do to the spectrum though?

No idea. But a customer of mine had some problems with the
autocorrelation of pseudo-noise for ranging purposes. The measured > S-curve did not look so triangle-like as it was supposed to be.

We'll see how the resistor noise looks. I'm just worried that much
amplification will show the noise of the first ERA3, or power supply or
ambient noise that I haven't filtered or screened out.

I'm using 0805 resistors but not series inductors, for now. Will that
affect flatness (rather than just lose some gain)?

Pure resistance from high VCC is probably easier for the beginning.
Use smaller R in series, it's a matter of C over the resistor vs. C from
resistor to GND. You get predictability and spend VCC.

I could easily put a tiny wire loop inductor in series after the R, at
risk of coupling to the next stage and singing. That should help at GHz.

I had quite good success with home etching, it helps during the lock-down.

I had excellent success with toner transfer, handling 0.6mm pin-pitch
parts easily, when I was using my ancient HP LJ6L. That finally died,
and the replacement HP2055DN produces a porous checker-plate that's
visible only under magnification. I haven't worked out how to stop it
doing that, but the etchant gets through the tiny gaps, even if I use
the toner transfer foil. Perhaps I'll have another go at it, I've only
tried etching once (printing many times, but only one seemed good enough
to etch.

I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores. The lacquer itself, meanwhile,
can be easily removed with alcohol, but the toner's pores seem to
stay filled.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

2) A variation of the above is to spray the lacquer, then transfer
the toner almost immediately, before the lacquer dries. The lacquer
itself grabs the toner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dpCi9kgpuw

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

If I can't Dremel copperclad, I lay out a 4-layer board and order it
quick-turn. All that homebrew PCB stuff is messy and tedious, and you
wind up with low-res boards with no gold plate, no solder mask, no
planes, no plated vias, and no silk. And a lot of drilling.

It's not that bad, really, and sometimes it's handier than waiting.

Since toner transfer turned fickle I've mostly Dremel'd too. But while
toner transfer was working it was a lot faster than Dremeling, with
much better resolution, and it was easy to make two or three on a panel.

With surface mount these days I don't drill at all, mostly. A few holes
to access the ground side, at most.

How do you make holes? I use an OLD Dremel drill stand that keeps the
Dremel fixed & raises and lowers the bed. There's no wobble in it.
Doesn't break carbide drill bits. Magic.

The quick way is to jam the carbide dental-burr cutter into the board.
That will do for a quick via. The slow way is to walk down the wall to
the lab, where we have a drill press.

I like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

It makes a huge difference drilling when drilling is trivial and quick.

Don't use the new Dremel drill presses for this, or you'll snap one
bit per hole. On the plus side, I use the broken bits for manual
board Dremeling, making fine cuts and traces. They're the bees' knees.

Cheers,
James
--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

Me too.

A pity that nobody seems to sell #2-56 angle brackets or standoffs.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 2:14:53 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

The quick way is to jam the carbide dental-burr cutter into the board.
That will do for a quick via. The slow way is to walk down the wall to
the lab, where we have a drill press.

I like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

I bought a used but mint Cameron Precision drill press a couple years ago from a retired machinist. I paid $20 for it. I was stunned to learn that it was a current model that sold for $999.00. They have changed to a DC motor, but this is the same basic tool:

https://cameronmicrodrillpress.com/sensitive-manual-micro-drill-presses/new-cameron-214-series/

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <cf4c5a08-c2c4-4eda-843b-efc51670cbb1@googlegroups.com>,
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a used but mint Cameron Precision drill press a couple years ago from a retired machinist. I paid $20 for it. I was stunned to learn that it was
a current model that sold for $999.00.

That's quite a catch! Good show.

A few years ago I bought the base-model mini drill press from
Micro-Mark:

https://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-3-Speed-Mini-Drill-Press

Change-the-belt speed control rather than electronic, and only a
simple mechanical height/depth-stop. It works fine for my needs.
I've used it for a number of PC-board drilling jobs over the years
(both through-hole, and pad-cutting using a diamond-tipped mini hole
cutter) and it has done well... I haven't broken a single carbide bit.

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 11:14:53 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

I like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

As long as you have a drill press, there's brass turret posts with rivet bases; just
put the support block on the drill press axis, chuck the staking tool, and
one pull of the drill press handle sets the rivet

They're silver plated, so you can touch 'em with a soldering iron to get
the electricl connection just right. They're perfect for an o'scope probe.

<https://www.keyelco.com/userAssets/file/M65p142.pdf>

Digikey apparently thinks they're VERY valuable, even in tin plate; my stash of
the silvered ones is a few decades old. An ounce lasts a LONG time.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

torsdag den 9. april 2020 kl. 21.40.30 UTC+2 skrev pcdh...@gmail.com:

like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

Me too.

A pity that nobody seems to sell #2-56 angle brackets or standoffs.

https://www.pololu.com/product/2083

https://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/radata.pdf

 

[Carl]

wrote in message
news:b5792cd7-b277-48ac-82bd-b78784a1b8b3@googlegroups.com...

like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

Me too.

A pity that nobody seems to sell #2-56 angle brackets or standoffs.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

If by standoffs you mean tubular spacers, those are readily available in
2-56 as male-female, female-female, and unthreaded, in round and hex, in
lots of lengths and materials. McMaster Carr has them, for one, along with
Keystone (but not M-F, only F-F). However, I couldn't find angle brackets
with holes smaller than #4 at Keystone. Seastrom didn't have #2 holes
either, but I'm sure that they would love to quote a custom run for you .

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

 

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:58:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 2:14:53 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

The quick way is to jam the carbide dental-burr cutter into the board.
That will do for a quick via. The slow way is to walk down the wall to
the lab, where we have a drill press.

I like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1


I bought a used but mint Cameron Precision drill press a couple years ago from a retired machinist. I paid $20 for it. I was stunned to learn that it was a current model that sold for $999.00. They have changed to a DC motor, but this is the same basic tool:

https://cameronmicrodrillpress.com/sensitive-manual-micro-drill-presses/new-cameron-214-series/

That's gorgeous, much classier than my setup. But my little
fella does a wonderful job whenever I drag him out.

It's a Dremel Model 210, and only works with older can't-buy-em
Dremel tools.
https://www.ebay.com/c/1610295968

Mechanically it resembles a knee mill, where you raise the knee
to the cutting tool. The platform sits on a post that is centered
to the Dremel tool, so that any wobble is rotation that is concentric
to the Dremel, and doesn't flex the drill bit. Magic.

It's tempting from time-to-time to homebrew a rinky-dink PCB mill or
some such, (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drMZqmyXQc)

but I've never seen anyone who actually loved their PCB mill much.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 4:36:21 PM UTC-4, Dave Platt wrote:

Michael Terrell wrote:

I bought a used but mint Cameron Precision drill press a couple years ago from a retired machinist. I paid $20 for it. I was stunned to learn that it was
a current model that sold for $999.00.

That's quite a catch! Good show.

A few years ago I bought the base-model mini drill press from
Micro-Mark:

https://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-3-Speed-Mini-Drill-Press

Change-the-belt speed control rather than electronic, and only a
simple mechanical height/depth-stop. It works fine for my needs.
I've used it for a number of PC-board drilling jobs over the years
(both through-hole, and pad-cutting using a diamond-tipped mini hole
cutter) and it has done well... I haven't broken a single carbide bit.

I also bought a micro mill for another $20 from the same man. It has a 4"x4" table. A third $20 item was a small belt sander that I gave my dad.

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 5:56:30 PM UTC-4, Carl wrote:

wrote in message
news:b5792cd7-b277-48ac-82bd-b78784a1b8b3@googlegroups.com...

like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

Me too.

A pity that nobody seems to sell #2-56 angle brackets or standoffs.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

If by standoffs you mean tubular spacers, those are readily available in
2-56 as male-female, female-female, and unthreaded, in round and hex, in
lots of lengths and materials. McMaster Carr has them, for one, along with
Keystone (but not M-F, only F-F). However, I couldn't find angle brackets
with holes smaller than #4 at Keystone. Seastrom didn't have #2 holes
either, but I'm sure that they would love to quote a custom run for you .

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

Oh.. I recall these threaded blocks. (2-56) not cubes, rectangular
with two 90 degree threaded holes.. but offset so they didn't
cross each other. Maybe they were some custom part?
like this, but 2-56

https://www.robotshop.com/en/aluminum-attachment-blocks.html

George H.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 5:56:00 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:58:13 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 2:14:53 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

The quick way is to jam the carbide dental-burr cutter into the board..
That will do for a quick via. The slow way is to walk down the wall to
the lab, where we have a drill press.

I like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1


I bought a used but mint Cameron Precision drill press a couple years ago from a retired machinist. I paid $20 for it. I was stunned to learn that it was a current model that sold for $999.00. They have changed to a DC motor, but this is the same basic tool:

https://cameronmicrodrillpress.com/sensitive-manual-micro-drill-presses/new-cameron-214-series/

That's gorgeous, much classier than my setup. But my little
fella does a wonderful job whenever I drag him out.

It's a Dremel Model 210, and only works with older can't-buy-em
Dremel tools.
https://www.ebay.com/c/1610295968

Mechanically it resembles a knee mill, where you raise the knee
to the cutting tool. The platform sits on a post that is centered
to the Dremel tool, so that any wobble is rotation that is concentric
to the Dremel, and doesn't flex the drill bit. Magic.

It's tempting from time-to-time to homebrew a rinky-dink PCB mill or
some such, (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drMZqmyXQc)

but I've never seen anyone who actually loved their PCB mill much.

Sometimes things just go right. I almost passed up the listing on Craigslist, figuring that the prices would be a lot higher.