Favourite parts with off-label uses?

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-09 17:21, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 9. april 2020 kl. 21.40.30 UTC+2 skrev pcdh...@gmail.com:
like to use 2-56 hardware as places to alligator-clip to, power and
grounds. The holes for them work best with the drill press.

Me too.

A pity that nobody seems to sell #2-56 angle brackets or standoffs.


https://www.pololu.com/product/2083

https://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/radata.pdf


Thanks, that's useful. Angle brackets are still AWOL as far as I can tell.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 9/4/20 3:30 pm, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 9/4/20 2:56 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:49:31 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
... a disappointing result.
I'm curious.  What part of the resulting prints were disappointing?

See <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm87qcu2imydbja/HpPrint.png?dl=0
Scanned at 1200DPI on a good Epson scanner, the upper band is part of
the solid black banner on a test page, the lower section is from part of
a PCB.

I can't see the checker-plate pattern in these ones (that might be the
1200dpi setting), just the blotchiness.

Can't etch from it anyhow.

Jeff, I was hoping you'd prognosticate further about the reason for this
effect?

CH

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

I tried things like that but they were too slippery - bits of toner just
fell off before getting transferred. I'm using toner transfer paper
bought for the purpose.

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

That could be messy.

CH

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-04-10 18:41, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:21:19 +1000, Chris Jones
lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

On 09/04/2020 14:56, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The P2055DN is not what I would consider a good printer.

What is the best old HP printer?

Sigh. Whenever I get into a printer discussion, someone always ask
that question.

A nice refurb 2300DTN is the ticket.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily, but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.

I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term. I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote in
news:128kG.138901$UC6.117487@fx09.iad:

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not
a term that has a single meaning here.

Lacquer *was* the base vehicle for automotive paints and many
things here in the coatings industry. Automotives switched to reduce
greenhouse gas emissions. Hard to buy lacquer based paints at the
auto parts store. Same as with Freon, or chlorofluorocarbon based
coolants.

But PCB conformal coatings are likely also no longer lacquer based
if they ever were. (probably some worse compounds)

I think he must be using the term colloquially. I mean he does
refer to a coating but is using the term lacquer as a generic term
related to coatings.

Same as with "varnish". There are other than the coatings based
definitions with that one too. But real varnish is still used in
transformer vacuum encapsulation/moisture barrier/seal.

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:18:14 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 11/4/20 11:49 am, Ricky C wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily,


And I get hits on a dozen different kinds of things. Acrylic, shellac,
etc. So I asked James what he meant.


but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.


It doesn't matter what I think of it as. If I wat to do what James did,
it matters what *he* thinks of it as.


I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term.


I've done French polish, using traditional shellac.
That's not what James meant... is it?


I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.
Exactly my point. I cannot apply "a class of sealants" I need to apply a
specific sealant.

In other words, everything about your post illustrates the complete lack
of comprehension that characterises all your posts.

Your post shows how you tend to blame your shortcomings on others. I simply answered the question you asked.

You are welcome.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky C]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:18:10 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 11/4/20 1:12 pm, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
lørdag den 11. april 2020 kl. 03.49.28 UTC+2 skrev Ricky C:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,
What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily,

And I get hits on a dozen different kinds of things. Acrylic, shellac,
etc. So I asked James what he meant.

but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.

It doesn't matter what I think of it as. If I wat to do what James did,
it matters what *he* thinks of it as.

You didn't ask what James specifically was referring to. You asked, "What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer?"

I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term.

I've done French polish, using traditional shellac.
That's not what James meant... is it?

I can't say. I'm not James. I simply answered the question you asked.

I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.

Exactly my point. I cannot apply "a class of sealants" I need to apply a
specific sealant.

Indeed. You should ask James what he has used, not "What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer?"

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 11/4/20 11:49 am, Ricky C wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily,

And I get hits on a dozen different kinds of things. Acrylic, shellac,
etc. So I asked James what he meant.

but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.

It doesn't matter what I think of it as. If I wat to do what James did,
it matters what *he* thinks of it as.

I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term.

I've done French polish, using traditional shellac.
That's not what James meant... is it?


> I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.
Exactly my point. I cannot apply "a class of sealants" I need to apply a
specific sealant.

In other words, everything about your post illustrates the complete lack
of comprehension that characterises all your posts.

CH

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 11/4/20 1:12 pm, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

lørdag den 11. april 2020 kl. 03.49.28 UTC+2 skrev Ricky C:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,
What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily,

And I get hits on a dozen different kinds of things. Acrylic, shellac,
etc. So I asked James what he meant.

>> but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.

It doesn't matter what I think of it as. If I wat to do what James did,
it matters what *he* thinks of it as.

>> I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term.

I've done French polish, using traditional shellac.
That's not what James meant... is it?

>> I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.

Exactly my point. I cannot apply "a class of sealants" I need to apply a
specific sealant.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

lørdag den 11. april 2020 kl. 03.49.28 UTC+2 skrev Ricky C:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily, but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.

I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term. I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.

lacquer can be all kinds of things, the stuff make from insects is shellac

 

[Ricky C]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 12:08:03 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 11/4/20 1:41 pm, Ricky C wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:18:14 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 11/4/20 11:49 am, Ricky C wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily,


And I get hits on a dozen different kinds of things. Acrylic, shellac,
etc. So I asked James what he meant.


but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.


It doesn't matter what I think of it as. If I wat to do what James did,
it matters what *he* thinks of it as.


I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term.


I've done French polish, using traditional shellac.
That's not what James meant... is it?


I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.
Exactly my point. I cannot apply "a class of sealants" I need to apply a
specific sealant.

In other words, everything about your post illustrates the complete lack
of comprehension that characterises all your posts.

Your post shows how you tend to blame your shortcomings on others. I simply answered the question you asked.

You are welcome.


A hint here. A message that starts with sentence that looks like
"James, ....?" is probably a question for James to answer, that only he
can answer, and you should STFU unless it's apparent he's not going to.

A question that says "I know what I think X is, but what do *you* mean
by it" can only be answered by the person being addressed.

The same word can mean different things to different people or in
different contexts.

These are things that we learn in kindergarten. But apparently you
didn't graduate, because these are errors that you make *repeatedly*. I
certainly find it difficult to image a high school that might have let
you graduate.

I'm not going to debate this silly issue ad nauseam. You asked a question. I answered the question you asked. If you don't like that why do you continue to keep debating it? This isn't a room of people where I butted into a conversation. All you needed to do was ignore the post you didn't like. Instead you try to turn it into a flame war.

You seem to be rather sensitive for discussing topics in a public forum. Sorry I bothered you.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 11/4/20 1:41 pm, Ricky C wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:18:14 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 11/4/20 11:49 am, Ricky C wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm pretty sure you could look it up easily,


And I get hits on a dozen different kinds of things. Acrylic, shellac,
etc. So I asked James what he meant.


but it's a sealant made from secretions of insects "lac". Think of it as varnish.


It doesn't matter what I think of it as. If I wat to do what James did,
it matters what *he* thinks of it as.


I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's very old and not at all a local term.


I've done French polish, using traditional shellac.
That's not what James meant... is it?


I believe these days it is more a class of sealants than specifically the original one made from insects.
Exactly my point. I cannot apply "a class of sealants" I need to apply a
specific sealant.

In other words, everything about your post illustrates the complete lack
of comprehension that characterises all your posts.

Your post shows how you tend to blame your shortcomings on others. I simply answered the question you asked.

You are welcome.

A hint here. A message that starts with sentence that looks like
"James, ....?" is probably a question for James to answer, that only he
can answer, and you should STFU unless it's apparent he's not going to.

A question that says "I know what I think X is, but what do *you* mean
by it" can only be answered by the person being addressed.

The same word can mean different things to different people or in
different contexts.

These are things that we learn in kindergarten. But apparently you
didn't graduate, because these are errors that you make *repeatedly*. I
certainly find it difficult to image a high school that might have let
you graduate.

CH

 

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm not completely sure. I believe it might be shellac, made from
actual shells of actual lac bugs? The important property here is
that it's alcohol-soluble. You might be able to vet local products
by checking the clean-up solvents spec'd.

This is what I tried & recommend --
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-11-oz-Gloss-White-Lacquer-Spray-Paint-1904830/100163605

I recommend white, as contrasting brilliantly with the black toner.

It's easily removed with 90% isopropyl alcohol, leaving printer toner
completely unaffected. Toner scoffs at IPA.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

I tried things like that but they were too slippery - bits of toner just
fell off before getting transferred. I'm using toner transfer paper
bought for the purpose.

I had that experience early on, years ago. But the current label-
backing type paper didn't have that problem. It's truly a godsend;
no more rubbing, soaking and peeling, hoping the toner sticks.

Transferring to a lacquer-coated board might be easier. The lacquer
is infinitely grabbier than even roughed up copper.

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

That could be messy.

Some YouTubers make it look easy, but all I managed was a smeary mess.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Ricky C]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm not completely sure. I believe it might be shellac, made from
actual shells of actual lac bugs?

I thought it was the shells too, but it's a secretion they leave on tree branches. So I guess they don't kill the bugs but harvest their secretions more like silkworms.

The important property here is
that it's alcohol-soluble. You might be able to vet local products
by checking the clean-up solvents spec'd.

This is what I tried & recommend --
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-11-oz-Gloss-White-Lacquer-Spray-Paint-1904830/100163605

I recommend white, as contrasting brilliantly with the black toner.

It's easily removed with 90% isopropyl alcohol, leaving printer toner
completely unaffected. Toner scoffs at IPA.

It needs to be a very thin, even layer. Otherwise there is potential of the alcohol being absorbed through the layer of lacquer underneath thin traces allowing the toner to lift while removing the lacquer. I haven't tried this so I don't know if it is a real problem or just a potential one.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

I tried things like that but they were too slippery - bits of toner just
fell off before getting transferred. I'm using toner transfer paper
bought for the purpose.

I had that experience early on, years ago. But the current label-
backing type paper didn't have that problem. It's truly a godsend;
no more rubbing, soaking and peeling, hoping the toner sticks.

Transferring to a lacquer-coated board might be easier. The lacquer
is infinitely grabbier than even roughed up copper.

I'm picturing circuit boards being coated while spinning. I'm not sure if this was photoresist or what. It's been a long time since I even thought of hand etching circuit boards.

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

That could be messy.

Some YouTubers make it look easy, but all I managed was a smeary mess.

Did you have a way of laying the paper on the board and removing it without it moving sideways? It does seem like a problem.

Aren't there pretty inexpensive ways of getting prototype quantities of PWBs made? I recall several outfits that panelize multiple designs into one batch so you can order a small number of boards at not a high price.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.

James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm not completely sure. I believe it might be shellac, made from
actual shells of actual lac bugs? The important property here is
that it's alcohol-soluble. You might be able to vet local products
by checking the clean-up solvents spec'd.

This is what I tried & recommend --
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-11-oz-Gloss-White-Lacquer-Spray-Paint-1904830/100163605

I recommend white, as contrasting brilliantly with the black toner.

It's easily removed with 90% isopropyl alcohol, leaving printer toner
completely unaffected. Toner scoffs at IPA.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

I tried things like that but they were too slippery - bits of toner just
fell off before getting transferred. I'm using toner transfer paper
bought for the purpose.

I had that experience early on, years ago. But the current label-
backing type paper didn't have that problem. It's truly a godsend;
no more rubbing, soaking and peeling, hoping the toner sticks.

Transferring to a lacquer-coated board might be easier. The lacquer
is infinitely grabbier than even roughed up copper.

3) A third method is to zap the toner with acetone/alcohol mix to
make the toner tacky, then stick it to the board. That always
smears the traces when I try it. "Cold Toner Transfer"
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVhSCEPINpM

That could be messy.

Some YouTubers make it look easy, but all I managed was a smeary mess.

LACQUER
I found the technical data sheet, available on this page:
https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/specialty/lacquer-spray/

The operative info from that .PDF:
Resin Type: Acrylic Lacquer
Pigment Type: Proprietary
Solvents: Acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Toluene

It doesn't list alcohol as a solvent, but 90% IPA works like a beast.

The safety data sheet (linked on the above webpage) looks useful--
https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/1904830.pdf

It lists a bit of naptha in its solvent-cocktail.

FORMULA CHANGE
Oh dear. I see the video's author has added a note--

<quote>
UPDATE: apparently Rustoleum has changed the formulation of their
lacquer and it no longer dissolves in alcohol!!! The last 2 cans i
bought have been extremely difficult to work with, which might
explain some of the difficulty some of you were having duplicating
my results. I will update further with a substitute transfer base
soon. Thanks!
</quote>

Rats. Maybe I got a lucky canful before the change? But you'll
know what to look for--shellac / lacquer / solubility in alcohol.

Alternate: Acrylic floor wax strips with ammonia--I might
explore that some time, base-coating the board with acrylic
instead of lacquer. (Stinky, though.)

BACKING PAPER
This gent illustrates my joyous experience printing onto backing paper,
and the ease of transfer--the toner just comes right off, eliminating
a wet step. He uses the paper he peels off Arlon vinyl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haqP8xhsYas

These are the labels whose baking paper is salvaged and used by
the gentleman in the first of those YouTubes above--

Best PRINT half-sheet labels (1/2 page-sized labels)
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Print-200-Half-Sheet/dp/B0069RY9BY

The big lure of backing paper to me was eliminating the process
variations of thermally transferring toner to copper from paper.
The backing paper goes a long way toward accomplishing that. I
still have trouble getting adhesion to bare copper.


Overall, this ability to use two different resist coatings (toner and
lacquer) that dissolve in different solvents feels full of
promise & possibilities...

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 11/4/20 4:10 pm, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:00:09 AM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 8:19:13 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 9:39 am, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
I haven't been able to get toner transfer working since I changed
toner carts. But I've dabbled with two promising variations.

1) If you lacquer-coat the PCB *then* transfer the toner, the
lacquer fills in the toner's pores.
James,

What exactly is the stuff that Americans call lacquer? That's not a term
that has a single meaning here.

I'm not completely sure. I believe it might be shellac, made from
actual shells of actual lac bugs? The important property here is
that it's alcohol-soluble. You might be able to vet local products
by checking the clean-up solvents spec'd.

This is what I tried & recommend --
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-11-oz-Gloss-White-Lacquer-Spray-Paint-1904830/100163605

I recommend white, as contrasting brilliantly with the black toner.

It's easily removed with 90% isopropyl alcohol, leaving printer toner
completely unaffected. Toner scoffs at IPA.

Acrylic, thanks. I had no idea that IPA would attack it but not lift
toner. That's good to know, I'll give it a try. I'll have to find
suitable local products, as the ones you mention don't ship to Australia.

I could try shellac, I have some flakes here. It's intrinsically more
variable though, being a natural product; the water content and age are
factors in using it for French polish. And it doesn't come in a
convenient spray can.

The toner image is printed on the paper you peel off the back of
adhesive labels, or in my case, backing peeled off adhesive
shelf-liner paper from the one-dollar store.

I tried things like that but they were too slippery - bits of toner just
fell off before getting transferred. I'm using toner transfer paper
bought for the purpose.

I had that experience early on, years ago. But the current label-
backing type paper didn't have that problem. It's truly a godsend;
no more rubbing, soaking and peeling, hoping the toner sticks.

The paper I use has a significant starch (I think) content, and wets
really quickly - like 10 seconds before it comes off cleanly. The only
other relevant factor is how much it slows down the heat transfer in the
laminator; even after proper pre-warming I pass it through 2 or 3 times.

Transferring to a lacquer-coated board might be easier. The lacquer
is infinitely grabbier than even roughed up copper.

Good to know.

BACKING PAPER
This gent illustrates my joyous experience printing onto backing paper,
and the ease of transfer--the toner just comes right off, eliminating
a wet step. He uses the paper he peels off Arlon vinyl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haqP8xhsYas

These are the labels whose baking paper is salvaged and used by
the gentleman in the first of those YouTubes above--

Best PRINT half-sheet labels (1/2 page-sized labels)
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Print-200-Half-Sheet/dp/B0069RY9BY

The big lure of backing paper to me was eliminating the process
variations of thermally transferring toner to copper from paper.
The backing paper goes a long way toward accomplishing that. I
still have trouble getting adhesion to bare copper.


Overall, this ability to use two different resist coatings (toner and
lacquer) that dissolve in different solvents feels full of
promise & possibilities...

Well, after all, this is only for Saturday afternoon prototyping at RF.
Other prototypes can be on assorted grid boards that don't provide a
ground plane, and anything more permanent can go through one of the many
quick-turn board houses.

A friend uses a modified record-player to spin photoresist onto boards,
and makes double-sided boards quite frequently, but the process took a
lot of work to perfect.

There's something about knocking up a schematic in Kicad, laying it on a
board, and soldering it up an hour after you started. Sometimes the
magic flows and you want to try something *now*.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 11/4/20 5:03 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:51:31 +1000, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

On 9/4/20 3:30 pm, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 2:56 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:49:31 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
... a disappointing result.
I'm curious.  What part of the resulting prints were disappointing?

See <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm87qcu2imydbja/HpPrint.png?dl=0
Scanned at 1200DPI on a good Epson scanner, the upper band is part of
the solid black banner on a test page, the lower section is from part of
a PCB.

I can't see the checker-plate pattern in these ones (that might be the
1200dpi setting), just the blotchiness.

Can't etch from it anyhow.

Jeff, I was hoping you'd prognosticate further about the reason for this
effect?

You're really stretching the range limit of my crystal ball. It's
midnight and I feel like the walking dead, but I'll give it a try. My
crystal ball tells me it's either a burnt fuser sleeve or melted
plastic toner on the fuser or transfer rollers. Some detail:

Since the "blotchy" pattern is not at even intervals, my guess(tm) is
that there is damage to either the imaging drum, transfer roller,
toner cartridge, scrubber, or fuser assembly. In other words, almost
everything along the paper path. I would guess(tm) that the light
areas look like the toner is not sticking to the paper, which suggests
that the paper might be "lumpy", not very flat, or splattered with
something greasy. Try different paper and a different toner cart.
Look inside (though the back door) at the various rollers and transfer
film in the fuser assembly. If you see patches of partially melted
toner all over the rollers, that might be the problem. Refurbishing
and replacing the fuser in the HP LaserJet 2055 printer is not easy
but can be done. You can try to scrape off any accumulated melted
toner from the rollers, sleeve, or fuser, but the chances of damaging
these are high. If you leave a dent or scratch where you scraped off
the melted toner, the fuser will not heat the area sufficient,
resulting in the toner not sticking, which can create similar print
quality issues. Also, inspect the fuser film sleeve for burnt areas,
which can cause similar problems.

Refurbished fuser assembly:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/361359899607

Maintenance kit (if you have feed problems):
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hp+2055+maintenance+kit

Videos on how to replace the fuser assembly:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=laserjet+P2055+fuser+replacement

Replacement fuser sleeve:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hp+2055+fuser+film+sleeve

Disclaimer: This is only a guess(tm).

Oh wow, quite a lot of things could be the problem. I better have a good
look inside before trying another cartridge.

Thanks,

CH

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:51:31 +1000, Clifford Heath
<no.spam@please.net> wrote:

On 9/4/20 3:30 pm, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 9/4/20 2:56 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:49:31 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net
wrote:
... a disappointing result.
I'm curious.  What part of the resulting prints were disappointing?

See <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm87qcu2imydbja/HpPrint.png?dl=0
Scanned at 1200DPI on a good Epson scanner, the upper band is part of
the solid black banner on a test page, the lower section is from part of
a PCB.

I can't see the checker-plate pattern in these ones (that might be the
1200dpi setting), just the blotchiness.

Can't etch from it anyhow.

Jeff, I was hoping you'd prognosticate further about the reason for this
effect?

You're really stretching the range limit of my crystal ball. It's
midnight and I feel like the walking dead, but I'll give it a try. My
crystal ball tells me it's either a burnt fuser sleeve or melted
plastic toner on the fuser or transfer rollers. Some detail:

Since the "blotchy" pattern is not at even intervals, my guess(tm) is
that there is damage to either the imaging drum, transfer roller,
toner cartridge, scrubber, or fuser assembly. In other words, almost
everything along the paper path. I would guess(tm) that the light
areas look like the toner is not sticking to the paper, which suggests
that the paper might be "lumpy", not very flat, or splattered with
something greasy. Try different paper and a different toner cart.
Look inside (though the back door) at the various rollers and transfer
film in the fuser assembly. If you see patches of partially melted
toner all over the rollers, that might be the problem. Refurbishing
and replacing the fuser in the HP LaserJet 2055 printer is not easy
but can be done. You can try to scrape off any accumulated melted
toner from the rollers, sleeve, or fuser, but the chances of damaging
these are high. If you leave a dent or scratch where you scraped off
the melted toner, the fuser will not heat the area sufficient,
resulting in the toner not sticking, which can create similar print
quality issues. Also, inspect the fuser film sleeve for burnt areas,
which can cause similar problems.

Refurbished fuser assembly:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/361359899607>

Maintenance kit (if you have feed problems):
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hp+2055+maintenance+kit>

Videos on how to replace the fuser assembly:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=laserjet+P2055+fuser+replacement>

Replacement fuser sleeve:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hp+2055+fuser+film+sleeve>

Disclaimer: This is only a guess(tm).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558