Europeans drop watt in favour of lumen

[Phil Allison]

"terryc"
Eeysore wrote:

Lumens are are a UK ( SI ) measurement.

Apart from being a contrived measure, what are they?

Lumens actually tell you how bright the light is.

Nope, they do not.

** From Wiki: " The lumen (symbol: lm) is the SI unit of luminous flux, a
measure of the perceived power of light. Luminous flux differs from radiant
flux, the measure of the total power of light emitted, in that luminous flux
is adjusted to reflect the varying sensitivity of the human eye to different
wavelengths of light."

Lumens ARE a scientific measure of how much *visible* light a source
generates.

So, given *similar* light sources to compare, the one with a higher lumens
will illuminate a given space or surface more brightly. Similar light
sources are ones that have closely the same radiation patterns and colour
quality.

Lighting is a non-trivial subject and there is no way to make it simple, but
having a lumen rating on all lamps as well as the usual watts rating is not
a bad start.



....... Phil

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 29 May 2009 11:12:21 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"terryc"
Sylvia Else

Although in the context of light bulbs, the quantity you could measure
wasn't terribly useful. At least lumens is a measure of how bright the
bulb will appear to be.

Anyway, it's not impossible to measure lumens.

Explain exactly which natural unit they are and how you measure them?


** What a stupid and irrelevant thing to post.

no it isn't. I can build a device to measure amps and to measure volts.
what I want to know is exactly what is a lumen and how to build a device
to measure them?

** Anyone is wise avoid traps set by fuckwit trolls.

Okay, so you do not know either.

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 29 May 2009 09:13:58 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

Apart from being a contrived measure, what are they?

**A measure of the percieved power of the light source.

That is my point exactly, a contrived unit.

Lumens actually tell you how bright the light is.

Nope, they do not.

**They kinda do. Naturally, the best way is to provide Lumens/Watt data
for all lamps. Lux might be a better way of specifying light output.
What do you suggest?

I remember a few other "we are going to drop this and replace it with
that" events. total schmozzles. If they want to bring in lumens as an
additional rating system, then fine, but not as the expense of watts.

Despite the claims of some here, none of the eight CFL cards I have here
have any mention of lumens on them.





--
Once again, our prime minister Kevin Rudd brings stability to the nation
by reassurring the nation that one law still exists for the rich
and another for the poor. After a personal visit;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553855.htm

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 29 May 2009 09:29:10 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

As soon as 15 LED downlights hit a reasonable
price point, I'll replace all my halogens too.

What do you see as a resonable price?
Jury rigged the one sold by electus into a desk lamp and the output is
not that impressive or as useful as the funny little bulb it replaced.

 

[Phil Allison]

"terryc"
Phil Allison wrote:

"terryc"
Sylvia Else

Although in the context of light bulbs, the quantity you could measure
wasn't terribly useful. At least lumens is a measure of how bright the
bulb will appear to be.

Anyway, it's not impossible to measure lumens.

Explain exactly which natural unit they are and how you measure them?


** What a stupid and irrelevant thing to post.

no it isn't.

** Bollocks - it is totally ASININE.

I can build a device to measure amps and to measure volts.
what I want to know is exactly what is a lumen and how to build a device
to measure them?

** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

You trolling FUCKHEAD


..... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"terryc" <newssevenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a1f78c4$0$59103$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...

On Fri, 29 May 2009 09:29:10 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:

As soon as 15 LED downlights hit a reasonable
price point, I'll replace all my halogens too.

What do you see as a resonable price?

**That was 15 Watt LEDs, BTW. I'd be happy to pay $20.00 each for Cree
chipped ones.

Jury rigged the one sold by electus into a desk lamp and the output is
not that impressive or as useful as the funny little bulb it replaced.

**15 Watt Cree ones are VERY impressive. As much grunt as a 50 Watt halogen.
I use a 5 Watt one as a stair light and it works a treat. Mostly because
access is bloody near impossible.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"terryc" <newssevenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a1f7803$0$59103$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...

On Fri, 29 May 2009 09:13:58 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:


Apart from being a contrived measure, what are they?

**A measure of the percieved power of the light source.

That is my point exactly, a contrived unit.


Lumens actually tell you how bright the light is.

Nope, they do not.

**They kinda do. Naturally, the best way is to provide Lumens/Watt data
for all lamps. Lux might be a better way of specifying light output.
What do you suggest?

I remember a few other "we are going to drop this and replace it with
that" events. total schmozzles. If they want to bring in lumens as an
additional rating system, then fine, but not as the expense of watts.

Despite the claims of some here, none of the eight CFL cards I have here
have any mention of lumens on them.

**All of mine do, but I don't waste my time with crap CFLs anymore. In fact,
I just picked up a 14 Watt Philips one I purchased as a spare. It is rated
for 800 Lumen, 57 Lumen/Watt.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[pfree]

terryc a ĂŠcrit :

On Fri, 29 May 2009 11:12:21 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"terryc"
Sylvia Else
Although in the context of light bulbs, the quantity you could measure
wasn't terribly useful. At least lumens is a measure of how bright the
bulb will appear to be.

Anyway, it's not impossible to measure lumens.
Explain exactly which natural unit they are and how you measure them?

** What a stupid and irrelevant thing to post.

no it isn't. I can build a device to measure amps and to measure volts.
what I want to know is exactly what is a lumen and how to build a device
to measure them?

** Anyone is wise avoid traps set by fuckwit trolls.

Okay, so you do not know either.

Well, I would suggest to lok up "photometric units" somewhere. Measuring

everything in MKSA is not more "natural", whatever you mean by this...
pom

 

[terryc]

On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:11:58 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!, and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?

You trolling FUCKHEAD

Obviously you admit defeat.

 

[Phil Allison]

"terrycunt"

** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!,

** Proves what an insane TROLL you are

FUCK HEAD !!

and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?

** Irrelevant what they might be "inclined" to do.

Your absurd contention is 100% PARANOID SHITE

- typical of brain dead piles of autitsic shit like you.




...... Phil

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:789l0qF1l5jv9U1@mid.individual.net...

"terrycunt"


** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!,

** Proves what an insane TROLL you are

FUCK HEAD !!


and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?


** Irrelevant what they might be "inclined" to do.

Your absurd contention is 100% PARANOID SHITE

- typical of brain dead piles of autitsic shit like you.




..... Phil

Oh dear, the little bleeder is forgetting to take his medication again. :-(
And it isn't a full moon either.....

 

[The Real Andy]

On 28 May 2009 16:28:15 GMT, terryc <newssevenspam-spam@woa.com.au>
wrote:

On Thu, 28 May 2009 02:24:09 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Lumens of light output are what matter. The power INPUT in watts is a
worthless measure aside from judging your electricity bill.

Well, you have made the statement. Back it up with exactly whuch natural
unit is a lumen and how do you build a circuit to measure them?

I think what everyone is saying is that we really could not give a
shit what a lumen is or how its measured other than if we buy a light
bulb with more lumens then our simple brains are going to register it
as being brighter. Quite unlike watts which are meaningless measure of
the optical output of a light.

I will leave the science of photometry up to the people who know what
they are talking about.

 

[Mr.T]

"The Real Andy" <therealandy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dc9v15l0pc2n47ihnnumhofhaf983i4f6e@4ax.com...

I think what everyone is saying is that we really could not give a
shit what a lumen is or how its measured other than if we buy a light
bulb with more lumens then our simple brains are going to register it
as being brighter. Quite unlike watts which are meaningless measure of
the optical output of a light.

Of course, and Lumens are a meaningless measure of power consumption.
The point being they are simply measures of different parameters. And you
need to know *both* power input and light output if you want an idea of
efficiency, which is what people are now starting to worry about.

MrT.

 

[ian field]

"Alan Rutlidge" <don't_spam_me_rutlidge@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:4a1fa22b$0$24379$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:789l0qF1l5jv9U1@mid.individual.net...

"terrycunt"


** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!,

** Proves what an insane TROLL you are

FUCK HEAD !!


and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?


** Irrelevant what they might be "inclined" to do.

Your absurd contention is 100% PARANOID SHITE

- typical of brain dead piles of autitsic shit like you.




..... Phil


Oh dear, the little bleeder is forgetting to take his medication again.
:-(
And it isn't a full moon either.....

I wonder if shocking him with cardiac crash cart paddles on each side of his
head would do the trick?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

ian field wrote:

"Alan Rutlidge" <don't_spam_me_rutlidge@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:4a1fa22b$0$24379$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:789l0qF1l5jv9U1@mid.individual.net...

"terrycunt"


** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!,

** Proves what an insane TROLL you are

FUCK HEAD !!


and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?


** Irrelevant what they might be "inclined" to do.

Your absurd contention is 100% PARANOID SHITE

- typical of brain dead piles of autitsic shit like you.




..... Phil


Oh dear, the little bleeder is forgetting to take his medication again.
:-(
And it isn't a full moon either.....



I wonder if shocking him with cardiac crash cart paddles on each side of his
head would do the trick?

Only if you have unlimited current availible.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[ian field]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Tq2dnanKKbeQZ4LXnZ2dnUVZ_hVi4p2d@earthlink.com...

ian field wrote:

"Alan Rutlidge" <don't_spam_me_rutlidge@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:4a1fa22b$0$24379$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:789l0qF1l5jv9U1@mid.individual.net...

"terrycunt"


** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!,

** Proves what an insane TROLL you are

FUCK HEAD !!


and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?


** Irrelevant what they might be "inclined" to do.

Your absurd contention is 100% PARANOID SHITE

- typical of brain dead piles of autitsic shit like you.




..... Phil


Oh dear, the little bleeder is forgetting to take his medication again.
:-(
And it isn't a full moon either.....



I wonder if shocking him with cardiac crash cart paddles on each side of
his
head would do the trick?


Only if you have unlimited current availible.

Its much more fun if you don't kill him straight off.

Start off with just enough charge to make him stumble about a bit and keep
turning it up till he falls over.

 

[Eeyore]

terryc wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:

Although in the context of light bulbs, the quantity you could measure
wasn't terribly useful. At least lumens is a measure of how bright the
bulb will appear to be.

Anyway, it's not impossible to measure lumens.

Explain exactly which natural unit they are and how you measure them?

Anyone stupid enough to bet that Sylvia will not, once again, side step
the question?>.

Lumens are the measure of light intensity and clearly the correct unit. You
will find it quoted on most bulbs sold in the UK if you look.

Selling them by power consumption regardless of efficiency is plain bonkers.

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address

 

[Eeyore]

terryc wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"terryc"
Sylvia Else

Although in the context of light bulbs, the quantity you could measure
wasn't terribly useful. At least lumens is a measure of how bright the
bulb will appear to be.

Anyway, it's not impossible to measure lumens.

Explain exactly which natural unit they are and how you measure them?


** What a stupid and irrelevant thing to post.

no it isn't. I can build a device to measure amps and to measure volts.
what I want to know is exactly what is a lumen and how to build a device
to measure them?

How are you going to build a device to measure efficiency ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

terryc wrote:

On Fri, 29 May 2009 16:11:58 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

** The makers of the lamps do all lumen measurements for you !!!

Right!, and they wouldn't be inclined to fudge the figures now would they?

That would break consumer law. The figures I've seen seem consistent. I have a
150W frosted GLS bulb right here rated at 2140 lumens.

A 20W CFL that 'claims' to be equivalent to a 100W GLS offers only 850 lumens
( 40% of my 150W GLS ) ! Seems to me this could backfire on the adoption of
CFLs.

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address

 

[Eeyore]

The Real Andy wrote:

Seems the europeans have finally had the bright idea of using lumens
instead of watts for the classification of light bulbs.

Because it's the correct unit to use and will blow to pieces certain untruthful claims made about the true
output of CFLs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

Graham

--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address