ESR METERS

[Bob Parker]

Hi Lenny,
Australia has everything the USA has, except NTSC television,
left-hand drive cars and 117V 60Hz electrical power.
A few hundred miles south-west of Sydney there's more skiing
country than I could describe. You can do all the other things too.
If you're interested in having a quick peek at what Sydney looks
like to an electronics technician (me) walking the streets and parks
etc with a digital camera, have a look at
http://bob.parker.web1000.com/sydney/ (if that server hasn't failed
again).
Thanks for your supportive thoughts about the ESR meter. I think
that things aren't quite bad enough to make it hard for someone to get
their hands on one if they really want it. Companies like EVB,
E-Leader and John's Jukes are making sure of that.

Regards,
Bob


"captainvideo462002@yahoo.com" <captainvideo462002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well perhaps you need a business manager Bob. I would miss new
Hampshire but Sydney looks beautiful. Do you have skiing in Austrailia?
I roller skate and bike too actually,( when my arthritis isn't
bothering me).
But seriously, you have designed a great product.It would be a shame if
it were not to reach its full potential or worse, to fall by the
wayside due to the inept actions of others. Lenny Stein, Barlen
Electronics.

 

[John Bachman]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:45:09 +1000, Bob Parker
<bobpdeletethis@despammed.com> wrote:

Hi Lenny,
Australia has everything the USA has, except NTSC television,
left-hand drive cars and 117V 60Hz electrical power.
A few hundred miles south-west of Sydney there's more skiing
country than I could describe. You can do all the other things too.
If you're interested in having a quick peek at what Sydney looks
like to an electronics technician (me) walking the streets and parks
etc with a digital camera, have a look at
http://bob.parker.web1000.com/sydney/ (if that server hasn't failed
again).

G'day mate!

Nice pix. What the heck is that critter in front of the hospital and
what is he doing - remember this is a family newsgroup.

What, no baseball diamonds? I thought Australia was civilized ;-)

John

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:28:15 -0400, John Bachman
<johnREMOVE@anatek.REMOVEmv.REMOVEcom> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:45:09 +1000, Bob Parker
bobpdeletethis@despammed.com> wrote:

Hi Lenny,
Australia has everything the USA has, except NTSC television,
left-hand drive cars and 117V 60Hz electrical power.
A few hundred miles south-west of Sydney there's more skiing
country than I could describe. You can do all the other things too.
If you're interested in having a quick peek at what Sydney looks
like to an electronics technician (me) walking the streets and parks
etc with a digital camera, have a look at
http://bob.parker.web1000.com/sydney/ (if that server hasn't failed
again).

G'day mate!

Nice pix. What the heck is that critter in front of the hospital and
what is he doing - remember this is a family newsgroup.

What, no baseball diamonds? I thought Australia was civilized ;-)

John

"In their first Intercontinental Cup in 1981, Australia finished
eighth of eight. At Barcelona in 1997, Australia was second, with a
winning percentage of .857. Cuba was first place, with a percentage of
1.000. In 1999, Australia incredibly defeated Cuba 4-3 in a thrilling
11 inning duel to win the cup for the first time."

http://www.australianbaseballhistory.webcentral.com.au/ABH/Baseball%20Web%20Pages/the_real_world_series.htm

Regards,
Franc


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Bob Parker]

Hi buddy!
Now you're asking me difficult questions. It's some kind of a pig,
and I was wondering all the same things while I was taking the photo.
If anyone here knows the significance of a bronze pig sitting in
front of a major public hospital, please enlighten the rest of us!
They do play baseball down here... I have a friend who's right into
it. But cricket and various forms of football are more popular.

Bob


John Bachman <johnREMOVE@anatek.REMOVEmv.REMOVEcom> wrote:

G'day mate!

Nice pix. What the heck is that critter in front of the hospital and
what is he doing - remember this is a family newsgroup.

What, no baseball diamonds? I thought Australia was civilized ;-)

John

 

[captainvideo462002@yahoo.]

Hi Bob
I built your kit a few years ago and it has been a great addition to my
shop. It still amazes me the dead sets I get working without a
schematic by just poking around a SMPS and finding a high ESR cap.
Prior to getting this meter I would resort to other tricks. I would try
powering up and after fifteen minutes or so feel the caps around the
power supply. Sometimes a warm one turned out to be the culprit. Then
there was always the hot bridging method. Lots of sparks and excitement
At least once you will inadvertently reverse polarity. I wiped out a
regulator and scared the crap out of my wife that day. With my meter
though it doesn't lie. Among many other things we do here, I rebuild
apartment house intercom amplifiers. These things sit in a lobby wall
for twenty years and will suddenly start sounding like crap. I find
dried up electrolytics with my meter almost every time. Its a quick
profitable repair. and the building managers love it too as I rebuild
their equipment at a fraction of the cost of new. One serious concern I
have though is that on more than one occaision I have discharged caps
through the meter . Apparently, and luckily these were not charged
enough to damage it but seeing an arc even a small one through my meter
sure disturbed me though. I read somewhere in this thread about the
installation of two diodes. Could you please tell me the specifics of
this modification? Thanks very much and best regards, Lenny Stein,
Barlen Electronics.

 

[captainvideo462002@yahoo.]

Well perhaps you need a business manager Bob. I would miss new
Hampshire but Sydney looks beautiful. Do you have skiing in Austrailia?
I roller skate and bike too actually,( when my arthritis isn't
bothering me).
But seriously, you have designed a great product.It would be a shame if
it were not to reach its full potential or worse, to fall by the
wayside due to the inept actions of others. Lenny Stein, Barlen
Electronics.

 

[KenO]

Hi,

Am new to ESR Meters so have been searching the Internet and Forums for info.

Appreciate comments from others that have been using ESR Meters as to what features would be included in an "Ideal ESR Meter"

Thanks

Ken

 

[John Robertson]

On 07/10/2015 7:42 AM, KenO wrote:

Hi,

Am new to ESR Meters so have been searching the Internet and Forums for info.

Appreciate comments from others that have been using ESR Meters as to what features would be included in an "Ideal ESR Meter"

Thanks

Ken

The Bob Parker (Blue) ESR meter kit has most of the best features
(pretty much the gold standard meter), the only recommendation I have
with it is to also check across the capacitor with an ohm-meter to make
sure the low reading is because the capacitor is shorted...

Oh, and I happen to sell those, have been since 1999! We use one in the
shop all the time.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 07:42:06 -0700 (PDT), KenO <kenitholson@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Am new to ESR Meters so have been searching the Internet and Forums for info.
Appreciate comments from others that have been using ESR Meters as to
what features would be included in an "Ideal ESR Meter"

I have 3 ESR meters.
1. The original Dick Smith red LED meter.
<https://www.flippers.com/esrktmtr.html>
2. Capacitor Wizard analog meter:
<http://midwestdevices.com>
3. A Chinese components tester:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/281538476673>

All work quite well. I mostly use the Capacitor Wizard because the
meter reading is faster than the digital variety, that requires
shorting the leads to zero the display (to remove test cable
resistance from the measurement). However, this meter is not terribly
accurate below about 1 ohm. Good enough for testing electrolytic
capacitors, but not good for measuring battery ESR.

I'm not going to rattle off a bullet list of features for my idea of
an ideal ESR meter. They are unlikely to apply to your unstated
purpose. Instead, you might try to describe what you're doing and how
an ESR meter would fit into your application. That will define the
required features. We can then recommend a suitable product or design
(if you want to build your own).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Phil Allison]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

All work quite well. I mostly use the Capacitor Wizard because the
meter reading is faster than the digital variety, that requires
shorting the leads to zero the display (to remove test cable
resistance from the measurement).

** How absurdly lazy, zeroing only takes one or two seconds and does not need to be repeated unless the meter is switched off. All ESR readings are virtually instantaneous after that.

If the cap is being tested out of circuit, no leads are normally needed.

However, this meter is not terribly accurate below about 1 ohm.
Good enough for testing electrolytic capacitors,

** No it isn't.

The ESR of most electros of over 1000uF is under 0.05 ohms.



.... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 11/07/2015 12:42 AM, KenO wrote:

Hi,

Am new to ESR Meters so have been searching the Internet and Forums
for info.

Appreciate comments from others that have been using ESR Meters as to
what features would be included in an "Ideal ESR Meter"

**Up until last year, I was using the Bob Parker ESR meter. Excellent
device. Foolproof, cheap and very handy. OTOH, I bought one of these
last year:

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

Very, VERY nice instrument. I use it every day. If you budget can
stretch, it is highly recommended.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Ralph Mowery]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:d0bahrF11cbU2@mid.individual.net...

**Up until last year, I was using the Bob Parker ESR meter. Excellent
device. Foolproof, cheap and very handy. OTOH, I bought one of these last
year:

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

Very, VERY nice instrument. I use it every day. If you budget can stretch,
it is highly recommended.

If that is too much, you can get about the same thing without a caes from
China for $ 16 including shipping.
There are several on ebay similar to this one. They check almost any small
signal component.

Ebay number

271611840945

 

[Phil Allison]

KenO wrote:

Am new to ESR Meters so have been searching the Internet
and Forums for info.

Appreciate comments from others that have been using ESR
Meters as to what features would be included in an
"Ideal ESR Meter".

** For a start, all the ones that Bob Parker included in his design.

Being able to test the capacitance value would be an advantage, but doing so reliably when the part is still in circuit is near impossible.

Be aware that the ESR meters intended for service work are only good for electrolytic caps ( regular aluminium and tantalum ) and interpreting the readings correctly requires significant operator knowledge and/or a similar electro to compare with.



.... Phil

 

[Lee]

On 11/07/2015 02:38, Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 11/07/2015 12:42 AM, KenO wrote:
Hi,

Am new to ESR Meters so have been searching the Internet and Forums
for info.

Appreciate comments from others that have been using ESR Meters as to
what features would be included in an "Ideal ESR Meter"


**Up until last year, I was using the Bob Parker ESR meter. Excellent
device. Foolproof, cheap and very handy. OTOH, I bought one of these
last year:

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

Very, VERY nice instrument. I use it every day. If you budget can
stretch, it is highly recommended.

+1 have one of those as well.
To the other poster, I also have a couple of different Chinese clones,
yes they work, (fsvow at least), but the Peak is simply much nicer to use.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 02:52:21 -0700, Phil Allison wrote:

Be aware that the ESR meters intended for service work are only good for
electrolytic caps ( regular aluminium and tantalum ) and interpreting
the readings correctly requires significant operator knowledge and/or a
similar electro to compare with.

....Or a table of expected values vs. voltage rating vs. capacitance -
which comes with the Peak meter.

 

[N_Cook]

On 11/07/2015 04:18, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:d0bahrF11cbU2@mid.individual.net...
**Up until last year, I was using the Bob Parker ESR meter. Excellent
device. Foolproof, cheap and very handy. OTOH, I bought one of these last
year:

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

Very, VERY nice instrument. I use it every day. If you budget can stretch,
it is highly recommended.



If that is too much, you can get about the same thing without a caes from
China for $ 16 including shipping.
There are several on ebay similar to this one. They check almost any small
signal component.

Ebay number

271611840945

The cheapo fleabay one, I could not find the pk-pk voltage in ESR mode,
in the specs. Do you know what it is? I consider that to be a vital
requirement as most of my testing is in-circuit , unlike the shown
examples of isoltated componenent testing. Must be no more than .2V and
ideally .1V, so as not to turn on anything active, in circuit

 

[Phil Allison]

Cursitor Doom wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

Be aware that the ESR meters intended for service work are only good for
electrolytic caps ( regular aluminium and tantalum ) and interpreting
the readings correctly requires significant operator knowledge and/or a
similar electro to compare with.

...Or a table of expected values vs. voltage rating vs. capacitance -
which comes with the Peak meter.

** IME, such tables are far too vague and of date for modern electros.

The goal in servicing & refurbishing work is to find electro caps that are *on the way out* as well as obviously dead ones.

If in doubt, comparison with a the closest new electro available is a good move.


.... Phil

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 07:04:05 -0700, Phil Allison wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

Be aware that the ESR meters intended for service work are only good
for electrolytic caps ( regular aluminium and tantalum ) and
interpreting the readings correctly requires significant operator
knowledge and/or a similar electro to compare with.

...Or a table of expected values vs. voltage rating vs. capacitance -
which comes with the Peak meter.


** IME, such tables are far too vague and of date for modern electros.

The goal in servicing & refurbishing work is to find electro caps that
are *on the way out* as well as obviously dead ones.

If in doubt, comparison with a the closest new electro available is a
good move.

Well maybe. But it'll slow the process down massively as it's not just
the capacitance that causes ESR values to change. As you well know.

 

[Michael Black]

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 02:52:21 -0700, Phil Allison wrote:

Be aware that the ESR meters intended for service work are only good for
electrolytic caps ( regular aluminium and tantalum ) and interpreting
the readings correctly requires significant operator knowledge and/or a
similar electro to compare with.

...Or a table of expected values vs. voltage rating vs. capacitance -
which comes with the Peak meter.

Surely if one buys an ESR meter, they should be practicing with it. Check
every electrolytic and tantalum, get a feel for the variation. Don't just
use the meter to "check some electrolytics that look bad" and be done with
it, until the next time you need to use the meter.

Michael

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:17:55 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
All work quite well. I mostly use the Capacitor Wizard because the
meter reading is faster than the digital variety, that requires
shorting the leads to zero the display (to remove test cable
resistance from the measurement).

** How absurdly lazy, zeroing only takes one or two seconds
and does not need to be repeated unless the meter is switched off.
All ESR readings are virtually instantaneous after that.

The banana or pin jacks found on some ESR meters, including my Dick
Smith K-7204, do not make a reliable connection. The associated
probes are not much better. If I move the leads, I'll see some
variations in reading from the change in lead resistance. However,
you're correct about me being lazy. I should have soldered the jacks
and the probes long ago. (Added to things to do list for today).

>If the cap is being tested out of circuit, no leads are normally needed.

I do test caps out of the circuit, but only after I've unsoldered them
from the PCB. That's to verify that they really were bad. Other than
that, I rarely measure individual components, except when the markings
have disappeared. 2 of my 3 ESR meters have soldered leads. It will
shortly be 3 of 3 making measurements without test leads impossible.

However, this meter is not terribly accurate below about 1 ohm.
Good enough for testing electrolytic capacitors,

** No it isn't.

The ESR of most electros of over 1000uF is under 0.05 ohms.

It can become a problem with the Cap Wizard at 100 uF.
See the manual at:
<http://midwestdevices.com/_pdfs/Capmanual9.pdf>
See the table of "Capacitor Types and Expected ESR - 1uf & up"
For 1 uF and up, they consider anything less than 3 ohms as good.
However, you're correct. When I measure a BFC (big fat capacitor),
usually in a power supply, a digital meter is needed. I use this
chart for reference:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/ESR.txt>

There's also some interesting stuff in the Cap Wizard manual on
measurements with parallel inductance and resistance.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558