Electronic Challenge Help Requested

"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:jk3cmo02hea@news7.newsguy.com...
ABLE1 wrote:

(...)

No the panel is not a Elk M1 so macros are not possible. I only
have a relay output that I can program to change state
when there is an alarm. This would then send a dry input to a
controller module which sends out a Line Carrier signal to
turn on the modules. I know you are thinking on this issue.

I believe it really needs some kind of load that can be place
inside the box to pull the voltage leak down to zero.

Let's say you leave your PIR light connected as is but you place
your new relay
coil between the red wire PIR head *output* and neutral.

Now the relay will turn on any time the PIR light turns on.

How do you connect the contacts so that your Module controls your
existing
PIR light, as if it is in series with the wall switch?

I don't understand the plan here.


--Winston
The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input wire thus
turning on the lights.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on the lights.

The 120vac relay will in effect allow the motion detector to
indirectly trigger the module which presently it does not properly
do so.

Looking for a small 120volt relay seems to be the challenge that is
why I was looking for a component that would pull the voltage down.
Just don't know what component to use in order to make this happen.

Thanks for all the discussion Winston. I think that at this point
if someone knew of a component other than a relay they would have
chimed in by now. That is unless they are holding back. All should
have a better understanding of what I am trying to achieve.

I may have to continue my search for a mini/micro relay and hope I
get lucky.

Thanks,

Les
 
ABLE1 wrote:
"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message news:jk3cmo02hea@news7.newsguy.com...
(...)

I don't understand the plan here.


--Winston

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.
Without power to the floodlight, how is it to send anything to the "sense" input?

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.
I don't think so. The PIR sensor is blind without power, yes?

The 120vac relay will in effect allow the motion detector to indirectly trigger the module which presently it does not
properly do so.
Only if the motion detector was powered up beforehand, yes?

Looking for a small 120volt relay seems to be the challenge that is why I was looking for a component that would pull
the voltage down. Just don't know what component to use in order to make this happen.
*Any* coil type relay will probably be low enough resistance to turn that
voltage into current.
The bad news is that it won't address the challenge.

Thanks for all the discussion Winston. I think that at this point if someone knew of a component other than a relay they
would have chimed in by now. That is unless they are holding back. All should have a better understanding of what I am
trying to achieve.

I may have to continue my search for a mini/micro relay and hope I get lucky.
Try it before you purchase a case of them, OK? :)


--Winston
 
"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:jk3jql0m6j@news1.newsguy.com...
ABLE1 wrote:

"Winston" <Winston@Bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:jk3cmo02hea@news7.newsguy.com...

(...)

I don't understand the plan here.


--Winston

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.

Without power to the floodlight, how is it to send anything to the
"sense" input?

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.

I don't think so. The PIR sensor is blind without power, yes?

The 120vac relay will in effect allow the motion detector to
indirectly trigger the module which presently it does not
properly do so.

Only if the motion detector was powered up beforehand, yes?

Looking for a small 120volt relay seems to be the challenge that
is why I was looking for a component that would pull
the voltage down. Just don't know what component to use in order
to make this happen.

*Any* coil type relay will probably be low enough resistance to
turn that
voltage into current.
The bad news is that it won't address the challenge.

Thanks for all the discussion Winston. I think that at this point
if someone knew of a component other than a relay they
would have chimed in by now. That is unless they are holding
back. All should have a better understanding of what I am
trying to achieve.

I may have to continue my search for a mini/micro relay and hope
I get lucky.

Try it before you purchase a case of them, OK? :)


--Winston
Ok, I forgot to add that the power is connected or applied to both
the Module and the Motion Detector at all times except when the
switch is in the off position.

All else remain the same as listed.

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.

I don't need a case of relays, only seven.

Thanks,

Les
 
ABLE1 wrote:

(...)

Ok, I forgot to add that the power is connected or applied to both the Module and the Motion Detector at all times
except when the switch is in the off position.
Ah. I see.

All else remain the same as listed.

The lights are connected to the output of the module.
Help me here! :)

Are "the lights" something other than the Motion Detector?

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.
Do you know what polarity, level, duty cycle, frequency, offset is needed on that "sense" input to
get it to trigger? I don't.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.
Except for the bulbs screwed into the Motion Sensor.
They come on first, yes?

--Winston
 
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:45:31 -0400, "ABLE1"
<royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:


Ok, I forgot to add that the power is connected or applied to both
the Module and the Motion Detector at all times except when the
switch is in the off position.

All else remain the same as listed.

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.

I don't need a case of relays, only seven.

Thanks,

Les
---
Only one: (View with a fixed-pitch font)


ACHOT>---+----------------------+--+
| | |
| [R1] |
| | |
| +------+ +------+ | | +-------+
+--|~ OUT|--|~ COM|--+ +--|~ OUT|--+
| | | NO|--------|SENSE | |
+--|~ OUT|--|~ | +--|~ | |
| +------+ +------+ | +-------+ |
| MOTION RELAY | MODULE [LAMP]
| DET | |
NEUT>----+-------------------------+-------------+

Select a 120VAC relay with a sensitivity low enough that the leakage
current out of the motion detector won't trigger it.

R1 is used to limit the current into the SENSE input of the module and
may be omitted if the module has been designed to have mains hot
connected directly to the SENSE input.

--
JF
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:a6cbm7hhhrttloi7fl3l5mqt1qn14t37mq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:45:31 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:


Ok, I forgot to add that the power is connected or applied to both
the Module and the Motion Detector at all times except when the
switch is in the off position.

All else remain the same as listed.

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.

I don't need a case of relays, only seven.

Thanks,

Les

---
Only one: (View with a fixed-pitch font)


ACHOT>---+----------------------+--+
| | |
| [R1] |
| | |
| +------+ +------+ | | +-------+
+--|~ OUT|--|~ COM|--+ +--|~ OUT|--+
| | | NO|--------|SENSE | |
+--|~ OUT|--|~ | +--|~ | |
| +------+ +------+ | +-------+ |
| MOTION RELAY | MODULE [LAMP]
| DET | |
NEUT>----+-------------------------+-------------+

Select a 120VAC relay with a sensitivity low enough that the
leakage
current out of the motion detector won't trigger it.

R1 is used to limit the current into the SENSE input of the module
and
may be omitted if the module has been designed to have mains hot
connected directly to the SENSE input.

--
JF

John,

Yes, I got that. The R1 will not be required because the sense is
designed to handle the 120vac in.

Still having a problem with a Relay small enough to fit into the
limited space. Do know of a different component that can handle the
full load other than a relay??

Thanks for the layout drawing.

Les
 
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 09:04:20 -0400, "ABLE1"
<royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:a6cbm7hhhrttloi7fl3l5mqt1qn14t37mq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:45:31 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:


Ok, I forgot to add that the power is connected or applied to both
the Module and the Motion Detector at all times except when the
switch is in the off position.

All else remain the same as listed.

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.

I don't need a case of relays, only seven.

Thanks,

Les

---
Only one: (View with a fixed-pitch font)


ACHOT>---+----------------------+--+
| | |
| [R1] |
| | |
| +------+ +------+ | | +-------+
+--|~ OUT|--|~ COM|--+ +--|~ OUT|--+
| | | NO|--------|SENSE | |
+--|~ OUT|--|~ | +--|~ | |
| +------+ +------+ | +-------+ |
| MOTION RELAY | MODULE [LAMP]
| DET | |
NEUT>----+-------------------------+-------------+

Select a 120VAC relay with a sensitivity low enough that the
leakage
current out of the motion detector won't trigger it.

R1 is used to limit the current into the SENSE input of the module
and
may be omitted if the module has been designed to have mains hot
connected directly to the SENSE input.

--
JF


John,

Yes, I got that. The R1 will not be required because the sense is
designed to handle the 120vac in.

Still having a problem with a Relay small enough to fit into the
limited space. Do know of a different component that can handle the
full load other than a relay??
---
If the module is supplying the load current(20A?)and the relay is only
supplying the current into the SENSE input of the module, then the
relay could be very small.

Do you know what the leakage current out of the motion sensor is?
---


Thanks for the layout drawing.
---
My pleasure. :)
---

JF
 
ABLE1 wrote:
"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in
message news:Xq79r.17139$Ic5.2911@newsfe01.iad...

ABLE1 wrote:


"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9sieoaFentU1@mid.individual.net...


"ABLE1"

What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When
the output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is
zero(0). When not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac. I
believe this because the motion is using a triac or similar device.




** Your wording is very confused.

Does " not connected to the bulbs " = there are no bulbs installed ??


I need a way or component that will make the output a zero(0)vac
and upon activation will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.




** Install some bulbs maybe ?

God knows WTF you are on about.


... Phil




Phil, thanks for the response.

Very sorry for the confusion. I just tired and stressed, so I do
apologize. It is difficult to type out this issue since it does not
conform with the norm. I will attempt to clarify. If I knew more
about the internal circuitry of the motion head I might not be asking
the question or could explain it better.

This motion head does NOT have a conventional open contact relay.
When bulbs are installed and the unit is powered up the output to the
bulbs is at zero(0). If the bulbs are not connected or installed the
output is 120vac. I am trying to install a device that that will be
connected to bulbs to control the on/off function. The output of the
motion must be at zero(0) when all is stable, then when motion is
detected a 120vac output would trigger the device to turn on the
lights thru a sensing input. Since the output of the motion is
already at 120vac when the bulbs are NOT connected the lights turn on
and stay on.

What I am looking for is a device or component that could be tapped
into the output of the motion and connected to neutral that would
keep the output at zero(0) until motion is detected. In other words
trick the circuitry to make the output at zero(0).

I really don't know how else to explain. I am more of a hands on
person and as such have difficulty trying to explain by typing. If I
still have you confused please tell me where and I will try and fill
in the blanks.

Thanks for any help.

Les


Your problem is simple.
THe device most likely has a Triac or something of that nature with
components, most likely a snubber, that is passing the signal to your
meter or device. You need to simply place a load on the output.

Myself, I would just stick a 120v coiled relay on the output and then
use the dry contacts of that relay to operate the device..

Jamie


Jamie, Thanks for the response. I agree but I have a space
restriction. I have filled up the box already with the module and a 120
volt relay will not fit, unless it is very small. That is why I am
looking for some component to do the job. Something that can handle the
voltage when the motion turns on. Any extra thoughts??

Les
Hmm..
a Resistor?

I am only guessing on the snubber you may have in that circuit, it
could be the generic 100R+.1uf type. or close to that. This would give
you a Z = Sqrt(100^+Xc^) = 26539.18

Putting a 10k 2Watt R across the load may bring that down enough to
solve your problem.

If you find that 10k does not drop it enough, you'll need lets say
around 5k but twice your watts..

All of this is going to generate some heat and heat is a lose of
course but only when on. the idle state (off), it'll still be using some
power but not much.

Is it possible this unit you have has a lamp burn out detector in it?

P.S.
you could also try a .5 to 1 uf AC cap across the output, that may
also work. This all depends on the design of the unit.

Jamie
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:f6obm7dkptcpbqmqnq3i1hibvqurluvgku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 09:04:20 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:a6cbm7hhhrttloi7fl3l5mqt1qn14t37mq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:45:31 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:


Ok, I forgot to add that the power is connected or applied to
both
the Module and the Motion Detector at all times except when the
switch is in the off position.

All else remain the same as listed.

The lights are connected to the output of the module.

The output of the motion that would normally turn on the lights
directly will trigger the module thru the "sense" input
wire thus turning on the lights.

The alarm panel will trigger a controller module that will send
a
Line Carrier signal to the module which will turn on
the lights.

I don't need a case of relays, only seven.

Thanks,

Les

---
Only one: (View with a fixed-pitch font)


ACHOT>---+----------------------+--+
| | |
| [R1] |
| | |
| +------+ +------+ | | +-------+
+--|~ OUT|--|~ COM|--+ +--|~ OUT|--+
| | | NO|--------|SENSE | |
+--|~ OUT|--|~ | +--|~ | |
| +------+ +------+ | +-------+ |
| MOTION RELAY | MODULE [LAMP]
| DET | |
NEUT>----+-------------------------+-------------+

Select a 120VAC relay with a sensitivity low enough that the
leakage
current out of the motion detector won't trigger it.

R1 is used to limit the current into the SENSE input of the
module
and
may be omitted if the module has been designed to have mains hot
connected directly to the SENSE input.

--
JF


John,

Yes, I got that. The R1 will not be required because the sense is
designed to handle the 120vac in.

Still having a problem with a Relay small enough to fit into the
limited space. Do know of a different component that can handle
the
full load other than a relay??

---
If the module is supplying the load current(20A?)and the relay is
only
supplying the current into the SENSE input of the module, then the
relay could be very small.

Do you know what the leakage current out of the motion sensor is?
---

No I did not check that. I only read the voltage at 120vac. My
guess is that is would be very small. But it would seem to me that
the leakage current would be a minor issue for a component.

Would it not be more important that it could handle full current??

Les
 
"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in
message news:eek:jl9r.3021$2d3.2188@newsfe17.iad...
Jamie, Thanks for the response. I agree but I have a space
restriction. I have filled up the box already with the module
and a 120 volt relay will not fit, unless it is very small. That
is why I am looking for some component to do the job. Something
that can handle the voltage when the motion turns on. Any extra
thoughts??

Les



Hmm..
a Resistor?

I am only guessing on the snubber you may have in that circuit,
it could be the generic 100R+.1uf type. or close to that. This
would give you a Z = Sqrt(100^+Xc^) = 26539.18

Putting a 10k 2Watt R across the load may bring that down enough
to solve your problem.

If you find that 10k does not drop it enough, you'll need lets
say around 5k but twice your watts..

All of this is going to generate some heat and heat is a lose of
course but only when on. the idle state (off), it'll still be
using some power but not much.

Is it possible this unit you have has a lamp burn out detector
in it?

It is possible but I don't think so since there does not appear
there is any type of communcation out of the unit to give that type
of indication. I believe that the designer just want to use a
"Triac" or something to get away from using a more expensive relay
with open contacts.


I like the idea of a resistor but heat generation would be the next
issue. So you think that 2 to 4 watts would be enough??



P.S.
you could also try a .5 to 1 uf AC cap across the output, that
may also work. This all depends on the design of the unit.

Not sure about a capacitor being the best choice.

Les
 
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 10:49:12 -0400, "ABLE1"
<royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:f6obm7dkptcpbqmqnq3i1hibvqurluvgku@4ax.com...

If the module is supplying the load current(20A?)and the relay is
only
supplying the current into the SENSE input of the module, then the
relay could be very small.

Do you know what the leakage current out of the motion sensor is?
---


No I did not check that. I only read the voltage at 120vac. My
guess is that is would be very small. But it would seem to me that
the leakage current would be a minor issue for a component.

Would it not be more important that it could handle full current??
---
No, since all the motion detector will be doing is supplying the
current the relay coil needs to energize the contacts.

What we need to know in order to come up with a workable solution for
you is the leakage current out of the motion detector and the minimum
voltage and current required to trigger the module.

Can you post those, please?

--
JF
 
John Fields wrote:

(...)

What we need to know in order to come up with a workable solution for
you is the leakage current out of the motion detector
Just hang an A.C. ammeter between the *turned off* output of
your security light and ground. Don't allow the PIR module to
see anything during this test!

and the minimum
voltage and current required to trigger the module.

Can you post those, please?
Here is the owner's manual for the module:
http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?title=2475S2_Manual

--Winston
 
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:58:20 -0700, Winston <Winston@Bigbrother.net>
wrote:

John Fields wrote:

(...)

What we need to know in order to come up with a workable solution for
you is the leakage current out of the motion detector

Just hang an A.C. ammeter between the *turned off* output of
your security light and ground. Don't allow the PIR module to
see anything during this test!

and the minimum
voltage and current required to trigger the module.

Can you post those, please?

Here is the owner's manual for the module:
http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?title=2475S2_Manual

--Winston
Sounds potentially dangerous! I'd use a light bulb in series with the
ammeter as the test load.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:57:02 -0400, ABLE1 wrote:

Hello all,



Not sure how much activity is in this group so this is a test posting.
I have an electronic challenge and was wondering if there was anyone in
here that would like to brainstorm a bit to find a resolve.



What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When the
output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is zero(0).
When not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac. I believe this
because the motion is using a triac or similar device. I need a way or
component that will make the output a zero(0)vac and upon activation
will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.



The reason is that I am trying to control the lights two different ways.
One thru a automation device and the other thru the motion detector.



The automation device has a sensing input. In other words it just needs
a voltage input at 120vac to then turn on the output to the lights.
However because of the configuration of the motion detector it needs to
see the resistance of the bulbs to keep the output at zero(0) voltage.
Without this resistance value the output is 120vac. This 120vac voltage
then triggers the input of the automation module and turns on the lights
and they will not turn off.



What I think I am looking for is some sort of device that I can install
on the output of the motion detector to ground or neutral that will make
it think it sees the bulbs and put the voltage at zero(0)vac. Then when
the motion trips it will need to handle 120vac at 20 amps so that the
voltage can go HI and can be seen by the automation device.



Anyone know a proper device that can do this and be small enough to fit
into the electrical box behind the fixture??
A resistor. Whether you can find one that's got a low enough resistance
to work and will still fit in the box is going to require some
experimentation.

If I didn't have a handful of power resistors of the right ratings and
values to try, I'd start with a handful of bulbs -- does a 7W bulb hold
the output close enough to 0V? A 10W? 25W? etc.

Then, once you've found a bulb to do the job, figure out the current, use
that to figure out the resistance and power, and slap it in.

Alternately, observe that a 14400 ohm resistor dissipates 1W at 120V --
so you can get yourself a handful of 1W, 15000 ohm resistors, and start
connecting them in.

(Better yet, start with 20k-ohm 1W resistors, or higher -- you really
don't want to be running them right up against their power ratings).

If you're lucky, you won't need much.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:h29cm71ht5i72ehbo6c237lpp5ep6qncqa@4ax.com...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 10:49:12 -0400, "ABLE1"
royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:f6obm7dkptcpbqmqnq3i1hibvqurluvgku@4ax.com...

If the module is supplying the load current(20A?)and the relay
is
only
supplying the current into the SENSE input of the module, then
the
relay could be very small.

Do you know what the leakage current out of the motion sensor
is?
---


No I did not check that. I only read the voltage at 120vac. My
guess is that is would be very small. But it would seem to me
that
the leakage current would be a minor issue for a component.

Would it not be more important that it could handle full current??

---
No, since all the motion detector will be doing is supplying the
current the relay coil needs to energize the contacts.

What we need to know in order to come up with a workable solution
for
you is the leakage current out of the motion detector and the
minimum
voltage and current required to trigger the module.

Can you post those, please?

--
JF

I won't be back on site until Tuesday.
Will take additional readings at that time.

Thanks.

Les
 
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.please> wrote in message
news:qt-dnXAcBNSLq_vSnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@web-ster.com...
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:57:02 -0400, ABLE1 wrote:

Hello all,



Not sure how much activity is in this group so this is a test
posting.
I have an electronic challenge and was wondering if there was
anyone in
here that would like to brainstorm a bit to find a resolve.



What I have is a exterior flood light motion detector head. When
the
output is connected to the bulbs(resistance) the output is
zero(0).
When not connected to the bulbs the output is 120vac. I believe
this
because the motion is using a triac or similar device. I need a
way or
component that will make the output a zero(0)vac and upon
activation
will allow the output to goes HI at 120vac.



The reason is that I am trying to control the lights two
different ways.
One thru a automation device and the other thru the motion
detector.



The automation device has a sensing input. In other words it
just needs
a voltage input at 120vac to then turn on the output to the
lights.
However because of the configuration of the motion detector it
needs to
see the resistance of the bulbs to keep the output at zero(0)
voltage.
Without this resistance value the output is 120vac. This 120vac
voltage
then triggers the input of the automation module and turns on the
lights
and they will not turn off.



What I think I am looking for is some sort of device that I can
install
on the output of the motion detector to ground or neutral that
will make
it think it sees the bulbs and put the voltage at zero(0)vac.
Then when
the motion trips it will need to handle 120vac at 20 amps so that
the
voltage can go HI and can be seen by the automation device.



Anyone know a proper device that can do this and be small enough
to fit
into the electrical box behind the fixture??

A resistor. Whether you can find one that's got a low enough
resistance
to work and will still fit in the box is going to require some
experimentation.

If I didn't have a handful of power resistors of the right ratings
and
values to try, I'd start with a handful of bulbs -- does a 7W bulb
hold
the output close enough to 0V? A 10W? 25W? etc.

Then, once you've found a bulb to do the job, figure out the
current, use
that to figure out the resistance and power, and slap it in.

Alternately, observe that a 14400 ohm resistor dissipates 1W at
120V --
so you can get yourself a handful of 1W, 15000 ohm resistors, and
start
connecting them in.

(Better yet, start with 20k-ohm 1W resistors, or higher -- you
really
don't want to be running them right up against their power
ratings).

If you're lucky, you won't need much.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Now that makes sense to me.
I will know more on Tuesday and work it from there.

Thanks,

Les
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:58:20 -0700, Winston<Winston@Bigbrother.net
wrote:
(...)

Just hang an A.C. ammeter between the *turned off* output of
your security light and ground. Don't allow the PIR module to
see anything during this test!
(...)

Sounds potentially dangerous! I'd use a light bulb in series with the
ammeter as the test load.
Good idea!

--Winston
 
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:22:54 -0700, Winston <Winston@Bigbrother.net>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:58:20 -0700, Winston<Winston@Bigbrother.net
wrote:

(...)

Just hang an A.C. ammeter between the *turned off* output of
your security light and ground. Don't allow the PIR module to
see anything during this test!

(...)

Sounds potentially dangerous! I'd use a light bulb in series with the
ammeter as the test load.

Good idea!

--Winston
In my youth I used to trickle charge my car battery using a light bulb
and a diode, straight off-line... polarized plug to avoid a "hot" car
body. The light bulb served a secondary use... kept the under-hood
temperature reasonably warm in Winter ;-)

(When I still lived back East.)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson wrote:

(...)

In my youth I used to trickle charge my car battery using a light bulb
and a diode, straight off-line... polarized plug to avoid a "hot" car
body. The light bulb served a secondary use... kept the under-hood
temperature reasonably warm in Winter ;-)
Yup. Light bulbs only *appear* simple.

A series light bulb was very useful in tracking down
power supply shorts in TVs and radios, I hear tell.

I recall a hobby magazine article about a little plunge EDM
'tap burner' that used a light bulb as a current limiter.

It wasn't terribly efficient. Some miracles are like that. :)

--Winston
 
Winston wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

(...)

In my youth I used to trickle charge my car battery using a light bulb
and a diode, straight off-line... polarized plug to avoid a "hot" car
body. The light bulb served a secondary use... kept the under-hood
temperature reasonably warm in Winter ;-)

Yup. Light bulbs only *appear* simple.

A series light bulb was very useful in tracking down
power supply shorts in TVs and radios, I hear tell.

I recall a hobby magazine article about a little plunge EDM
'tap burner' that used a light bulb as a current limiter.

It wasn't terribly efficient. Some miracles are like that. :)

--Winston
One of HP's first products, the audio oscillators, used a "light bulb"
in the feed-back loop. I still have a 200AB that works as well as when
new. I replaced the line cord, which had given in to Los Angeles smog.

--
Virg Wall
 

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