Electric Cars Not Yet Viable

[Cursitor Doom]

And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars



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On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

I was looking at the new Jaguar EV400 at the mall here today. I have
to say, it's the first electric car that really looks hot. Zero to 60
in 4.5 seconds, 235 mile range. Really sharp, beautifully styled,
sleek. All yours for $89K. You do get a fed tax credit of $7500 to
help with that..... In which case i guess it's comparable to similar
MB, BMW, etc.

Bad news is of course the 235 mile range and the charging time.
It takes 10 hours to get to 80% charge, 13 hours for full charge.
IDK what that's connected to, but looks like it's 30A at 240V.
With a 50Kw DC source, it can be charged to 80% in 85 mins.
Of course 50KW is more than the full capacity of a 200A service.
So, sadly it doesn't sound practical to me. I couldn't get from
NY to Boston or DC on a full charge. And even if you coasted in
their on fumes, instead of having a car to do things with, you have
one to keep plugged in somewhere, charging. I can see it as an
expensive toy, an around town car, a commuting car for mostly fixed
trips. But it's impractical for your only driving car.

And Trump won't like it one bit. Motor built in Poland, tranny in
Germany, assembled in Austria......

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars

If you actually were interested in information rather than BS, you would read the article with a critical mind. I have said in many place and almost certainly here, that if you want to take an EV on trips in the US it should only be a Tesla for this exact reason. The guy who wrote the original article drive a Chevrolet Bolt. I talked to Chevy dealers several times. When I asked about charging they looked at the floor and drew lines with their shoe. Here are some points about this trip.

First, for a Chevy Bolt it is a pathological trip. That car has a max range of 200 miles and is not intended for trips. It is a commuter car. So it is guaranteed to need to charge once on the 270 mile driver and again on the way back. Potentially it may need a third charge because there really aren't many chargers for that car in the US. Most Teslas can make the trip without stopping. They would need a charge before returning.

The next point is that the Chevy Bolt uses chargers that are mostly less than half the rate of the Tesla Superchargers. So the long charge times of the Chevy Bolt are not experienced by Tesla owners. The Supercharger network also works more reliably with nearly every unit I've used charging at the full 140 kW it is rated for.

Even if you do stop to charge along the way, you don't need to fully charge the battery. You can stop for a bathroom break in Barstow or Baker and have far more than enough charge to get to Las Vegas and cruise around a bit before plugging into your hotel charger or hitting one of four Superchargers around Las Vegas.

The final reason why this article is bogus, is because this trip is not really typical usage. Typical usage is the 40 miles we put on our cars every day. This requires charging once a week or simply plugging in overnight or at work. Even apartment and condo owners can charge if they get permission which is going to be more common as more people get EVs. It will eventually be like any other appliance.

I think it is clear this article was a bit of a hatchet job. They even mention the difficulties a BMW i3 owner is having. With a 120 mile range. Duh! Would you take a car with a 5 gallon gas tank on a long trip?

The original article doesn't even mention that the Teslas can make this trip without charging although it does talk about them... in the context of their chargers not being compatible with other cars! That's a plus for Tesla..

The ZeroHedge article is even worse. The only facts that are mentioned are negative info they had to dig pretty hard to find. It also distorts info like saying EVs are not cost effective while the exact opposite is true. A model 3 Tesla charged at home will reduce your fuel bill by some $750 a year on the average plus it won't need the regular maintenance required of an ICE. You can get a model 3 cheaper than Larkin's Audi, so depreciation isn't the issue. ZeroHedge is making up stuff.

EVs are practical now and will become more so in the future.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 9:46:43 PM UTC-4, tra...@optonline.net wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

I was looking at the new Jaguar EV400 at the mall here today. I have
to say, it's the first electric car that really looks hot. Zero to 60
in 4.5 seconds, 235 mile range. Really sharp, beautifully styled,
sleek. All yours for $89K. You do get a fed tax credit of $7500 to
help with that..... In which case i guess it's comparable to similar
MB, BMW, etc.

Bad news is of course the 235 mile range and the charging time.
It takes 10 hours to get to 80% charge, 13 hours for full charge.
IDK what that's connected to, but looks like it's 30A at 240V.
With a 50Kw DC source, it can be charged to 80% in 85 mins.
Of course 50KW is more than the full capacity of a 200A service.
So, sadly it doesn't sound practical to me. I couldn't get from
NY to Boston or DC on a full charge. And even if you coasted in
their on fumes, instead of having a car to do things with, you have
one to keep plugged in somewhere, charging. I can see it as an
expensive toy, an around town car, a commuting car for mostly fixed
trips. But it's impractical for your only driving car.

Not sure what's impractical. I can't believe they built a car that can only be charged at 50 kW. I think you are looking at other than the current chargers. Electrify America (EA) is building a network of 350 W chargers compatible with the European connector. It's hard to imagine they would build a car that won't use more than a seventh of that power.

You can install a 240 volt 50 amp outlet in your garage that will charge at 12 kW, so around 6 hours for this car worst case. Plug it in at night when you are sleeping and dreaming of driving your car and you will never visit a gas station again.

That's one of the big advantages of EVs, avoiding the gas fumes of service stations... well, most of the time.

That reminds me. I drove by the mall today and they are installing Superchargers in Frederick where I really would like to use them. Awesome! I'm so glad Tesla is being serious about continuing to build their charging network. That's a very big factor why they've sold 100's of thousands of model S and X and many more of the model 3s. It's about the charging, stupid! That's why Tesla has sold over 600,000 vehicles to date and will continue to sell nearly 100,000 per quarter.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:686b0b30-c6fa-4a03-b58e-9994002a7bd8@googlegroups.com:

If you actually were interested in information rather than BS, you
would read the article with a critical mind.

In the seventies there was not even a single thought about an electric
powered RC helicopter, much less multi-motor quad copters.

Now, they are talking about mass producing a pilotless whirly bird
taxi srvice.

Folks are already buying up rooftop landing pad space leases.

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 1:02:52 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:41:49 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:


And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars

A gasoline pump moves about 10 GPM, which is equivalent to around 20
megawatts electrical. A car can fill up with gasoline in a few
minutes. Mine typically takes a minute or so.

If it takes an hour to fast-charge an electric car, the stall is
occupied for an hour. Or more if the owner doesn't immediately move
the car when it's charged. That's going to take some serious real
estate, and some serious waiting times.

Having more electric cars, even 25%, is going to need some major
logistics.

Why doesn't this guy get that EVs don't need a service station on every corner? Is he really that stupid or just obstinate?

Here, John, in case you are having trouble reading the small print...

EVS DON'T NEED CHARGING STATIONS WHEN PEOPLE CAN CHARGE AT HOME!!!

Did that get through?

Wow!

According to Bill, cars spend 95% of their time sitting. So there is a lot of time available to charge cars.

EVs use parking spaces when they charge, existing parking spaces. Gas pumps are made so you can pull through so lots of wasted space. Turn a 16 pump Sheets into an EV charging point and I bet you can get 30 or 40 charging spaces. I think Tesla actually has a station with 40 chargers.

They install nearly all Superchargers in existing parking decks and parking lots. No additional real estate needed! So maybe those gas stations can be blown up and turned into parks! Wouldn't that be awesome?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:34:43 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:686b0b30-c6fa-4a03-b58e-9994002a7bd8@googlegroups.com:

If you actually were interested in information rather than BS, you
would read the article with a critical mind.

In the seventies there was not even a single thought about an electric
powered RC helicopter, much less multi-motor quad copters.

Now, they are talking about mass producing a pilotless whirly bird
taxi srvice.

Folks are already buying up rooftop landing pad space leases.

High-end battery-powered drones can stay in the air about 20 minutes,
with no payload except a small camera. A weatherproof, enclosed drone
with passengers and luggage isn't going to make it very far.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:41:49 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd@notformail.com> wrote:

And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars

A gasoline pump moves about 10 GPM, which is equivalent to around 20
megawatts electrical. A car can fill up with gasoline in a few
minutes. Mine typically takes a minute or so.

If it takes an hour to fast-charge an electric car, the stall is
occupied for an hour. Or more if the owner doesn't immediately move
the car when it's charged. That's going to take some serious real
estate, and some serious waiting times.

Having more electric cars, even 25%, is going to need some major
logistics.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 12:34:47 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:686b0b30-c6fa-4a03-b58e-9994002a7bd8@googlegroups.com:

If you actually were interested in information rather than BS, you
would read the article with a critical mind.

In the seventies there was not even a single thought about an electric
powered RC helicopter, much less multi-motor quad copters.

Now, they are talking about mass producing a pilotless whirly bird
taxi srvice.

Folks are already buying up rooftop landing pad space leases.

Maybe that was because the rechargeable lithium-ion battery wasn't invented until 1980.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:c11e1f4e-242c-413b-8619-b0b83b9d1d87@googlegroups.com:

Maybe that was because the rechargeable lithium-ion battery wasn't
invented until 1980.

--

And the world and industry still used heavier NiCad batteries
until more recently.

The tech will get better and better.

Nanotubes, and graphene... all kinds of potential.

A graphene sheet condom you do not even know you are wearing (till
ya have to piss).

That graphene sheet could also make for a better supercap, which
is an inroad to calling the things batteries at some point. I am
amazed at how light LiFePo batteries are for the same AH rating.(and
amazed at the prices the greedy bat's turds are charging for them.

The condom thing was just a joke.

 

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
news:9nl0he5qhanlcb2nmkrcqa39qcj5dmjmql@4ax.com:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:41:49 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:


And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may
never be viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-
electr
ic-cars

A gasoline pump moves about 10 GPM, which is equivalent to around
20 megawatts electrical. A car can fill up with gasoline in a few
minutes. Mine typically takes a minute or so.

If it takes an hour to fast-charge an electric car, the stall is
occupied for an hour. Or more if the owner doesn't immediately
move the car when it's charged. That's going to take some serious
real estate, and some serious waiting times.

Having more electric cars, even 25%, is going to need some major
logistics.

Inductive charging at intersection stops.

Just like the phones do.

Not a problem accounting for it either. But Big Brother would
always know where you are whenever your charge mode is on.

 

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
news:qnm0he9eco3tvkoa5qambgeotdd7gf6qvt@4ax.com:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 04:34:43 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:686b0b30-c6fa-4a03-b58e-9994002a7bd8@googlegroups.com:

If you actually were interested in information rather than BS,
you would read the article with a critical mind.

In the seventies there was not even a single thought about an
electric powered RC helicopter, much less multi-motor quad
copters.

Now, they are talking about mass producing a pilotless whirly
bird
taxi srvice.

Folks are already buying up rooftop landing pad space leases.

High-end battery-powered drones can stay in the air about 20
minutes, with no payload except a small camera. A weatherproof,
enclosed drone with passengers and luggage isn't going to make it
very far.

Have you seen the units in the news recently? They fly forward at
about 100 knots.

Other countries will advance faster than America will. We are too
regulatory prone.

We should have already been back to the Moon.

 

[Rick C]

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 1:46:56 AM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
news:9nl0he5qhanlcb2nmkrcqa39qcj5dmjmql@4ax.com:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 00:41:49 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd@notformail.com> wrote:


And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may
never be viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-
electr
ic-cars

A gasoline pump moves about 10 GPM, which is equivalent to around
20 megawatts electrical. A car can fill up with gasoline in a few
minutes. Mine typically takes a minute or so.

If it takes an hour to fast-charge an electric car, the stall is
occupied for an hour. Or more if the owner doesn't immediately
move the car when it's charged. That's going to take some serious
real estate, and some serious waiting times.

Having more electric cars, even 25%, is going to need some major
logistics.



Inductive charging at intersection stops.

Just like the phones do.

Not a problem accounting for it either. But Big Brother would
always know where you are whenever your charge mode is on.

You know what? That may not be a bad idea! There is a company who thinks there is a market for inductive charging taxis at the stands where they pick up passengers. They have a product that seems to work pretty well and they claim it is so efficient the losses are lower than with a direct cable! Putting these at stop lights might actually be practical.

I'm just not sure it is needed and it would cost a lot more than simple level 2 chargers at home. Sometimes the low tech solutions are better. Remember, cars are sitting, not moving 95% of the time.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 24/06/19 02:46, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

I was looking at the new Jaguar EV400 at the mall here today. I have
to say, it's the first electric car that really looks hot. Zero to 60
in 4.5 seconds, 235 mile range.

Meh.

I know kids that do the first regularly, and the
second on good days. Up to 14 they have to be with
an instructor, on their 14th birthday they can go
solo.

Really sharp, beautifully styled,
sleek.

Nowhere near as sexy/sleek/stylish as a modern glider.

All yours for $89K. You do get a fed tax credit of $7500 to
help with that..... In which case i guess it's comparable to similar
MB, BMW, etc.

About the same price too, but no tax credits.

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 24/06/19 06:17, Rick C wrote:

EVS DON'T NEED CHARGING STATIONS WHEN PEOPLE CAN CHARGE AT HOME!!!

Did that get through?

MANY CAN'T!!!

Did that get through?

 

[bitrex]

On 6/23/19 8:41 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars

zero hedge is for incels in mom's basement:

<http://i.hurimg.com/i/hdn/75/0x0/59c88d1c45d2a027e83c6fcc.jpg>

"i'm an aryan warrior!!!!!1"

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 24/06/19 06:17, Rick C wrote:

According to Bill, cars spend 95% of their time sitting. So there is a lot
of time available to charge cars.

EVs use parking spaces when they charge, existing parking spaces. Gas pumps
are made so you can pull through so lots of wasted space. Turn a 16 pump
Sheets into an EV charging point and I bet you can get 30 or 40 charging
spaces. I think Tesla actually has a station with 40 chargers.

They install nearly all Superchargers in existing parking decks and parking
lots. No additional real estate needed! So maybe those gas stations can be
blown up and turned into parks! Wouldn't that be awesome?

In the UK car parks cost ÂŁ5-ÂŁ10 per hour in central London,
ÂŁ3-ÂŁ5 per hour in other cities.

I, and many other people, loathe paying for parking and prefer
to walk a few hundred yards.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/24/19 3:26 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 24/06/19 02:46, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

I was looking at the new Jaguar EV400 at the mall here today.  I have
to say, it's the first electric car that really looks hot.  Zero to 60
in 4.5 seconds, 235 mile range.

Meh.

I know kids that do the first regularly, and the
second on good days. Up to 14 they have to be with
an instructor, on their 14th birthday they can go
solo.


Really sharp, beautifully styled,
sleek.

Nowhere near as sexy/sleek/stylish as a modern glider.


All yours for $89K.  You do get a fed tax credit of $7500 to
help with that.....  In which case i guess it's comparable to similar
MB, BMW, etc.

About the same price too, but no tax credits.

Everyone and their mother knows how to bolt a lithium battery pack and
some big fuck-off motors to a chassis and put a luxury brand name body
cladding on it and say it's a revolutionary deeeee-lux EV and sell it
for 100k. it's yawnsville stuff

 

[bitrex]

On 6/23/19 9:46 PM, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

I was looking at the new Jaguar EV400 at the mall here today. I have
to say, it's the first electric car that really looks hot. Zero to 60
in 4.5 seconds, 235 mile range. Really sharp, beautifully styled,
sleek. All yours for $89K. You do get a fed tax credit of $7500 to
help with that..... In which case i guess it's comparable to similar
MB, BMW, etc.

Bad news is of course the 235 mile range and the charging time.
It takes 10 hours to get to 80% charge, 13 hours for full charge.
IDK what that's connected to, but looks like it's 30A at 240V.
With a 50Kw DC source, it can be charged to 80% in 85 mins.
Of course 50KW is more than the full capacity of a 200A service.
So, sadly it doesn't sound practical to me. I couldn't get from
NY to Boston or DC on a full charge. And even if you coasted in
their on fumes, instead of having a car to do things with, you have
one to keep plugged in somewhere, charging. I can see it as an
expensive toy, an around town car, a commuting car for mostly fixed
trips. But it's impractical for your only driving car.

And Trump won't like it one bit. Motor built in Poland, tranny in
Germany, assembled in Austria......

Everyone is trying to grab a piece of the deeeeeluxe! EV market before
it's saturated with 100 different 100k electric drive luxo-barges.

It's almost saturated already. be interested to see what Jaguar's
projected yearly sales of the EV400 are it's probably optimistically
like 3,000 units.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 24/06/2019 02:46, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:41:53 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
And if there is no quantum leap in battery technology, they may never be
viable.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-23/inconvenient-truth-electric-cars


I was looking at the new Jaguar EV400 at the mall here today. I have
to say, it's the first electric car that really looks hot. Zero to 60
in 4.5 seconds, 235 mile range. Really sharp, beautifully styled,
sleek. All yours for $89K. You do get a fed tax credit of $7500 to
help with that..... In which case i guess it's comparable to similar
MB, BMW, etc.

There is an electric hyper car parked outside the British Library at the
moment as a part of the Leonardo da Vinci celebrations exhibition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOg7RgwlXc

Worth watching for the snippets shown from Leonardos notebooks alone.

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/pininfarina-battista-ev-hypercar-revealed-geneva-2019/

Not bad for an electric hyper car Pininfarina Battista is about 1900
horse power and does 0-60 in 2s (ISTR at these sort of accelerations you
need a neck brace). It is claimed to have a 280 mile range as well.

Bad news is of course the 235 mile range and the charging time.
It takes 10 hours to get to 80% charge, 13 hours for full charge.

I didn't see any mention of charging times for it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown