Early compact fluoro failure - Philips

[Sylvia Else]

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along it.

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 15/10/2010 11:48 PM, kreed wrote:

On Oct 15, 9:39 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along it.

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Sylvia.


Whether they would refund on a hacked open CFL is another matter

Legally they should, since it was faulty when I bought it, which means
they breached an implied warranty of merchantable quality under the
Trade Practices Act. The fact that I had to open it up to discover this
doesn't alter the fact.

Of course, many people, including customer support personnel, have never
heard of the TPA, and think that a one year warranty says all there is
to say on the matter.

They probably would send a new one though, probably so few people
bother to claim that it might be cheaper and
easier to simply send a new one rather than argue and get a bad name
for themselves.

I'm wondering whether I should pursue it with a relevant authority. I'm
still wondering about the missing fourth insulator. When the lamp's
assembled, that fourth wire is just floating wherever it feels like
against the circuit board, with the potential to short out arbitrary
pairs of contacts. Leaving unreliability aside, it doesn't sound safe to me.

Sylvia.

 

[kreed]

On Oct 15, 9:39 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along it.

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Sylvia.

Whether they would refund on a hacked open CFL is another matter
They probably would send a new one though, probably so few people
bother to claim that it might be cheaper and
easier to simply send a new one rather than argue and get a bad name
for themselves.

 

[David Eather]

On 15/10/2010 11:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 15/10/2010 11:48 PM, kreed wrote:
On Oct 15, 9:39 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along
it.

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Sylvia.


Whether they would refund on a hacked open CFL is another matter

Legally they should, since it was faulty when I bought it, which means
they breached an implied warranty of merchantable quality under the
Trade Practices Act. The fact that I had to open it up to discover this
doesn't alter the fact.

Of course, many people, including customer support personnel, have never
heard of the TPA, and think that a one year warranty says all there is
to say on the matter.

They probably would send a new one though, probably so few people
bother to claim that it might be cheaper and
easier to simply send a new one rather than argue and get a bad name
for themselves.

I'm wondering whether I should pursue it with a relevant authority. I'm
still wondering about the missing fourth insulator. When the lamp's
assembled, that fourth wire is just floating wherever it feels like
against the circuit board, with the potential to short out arbitrary
pairs of contacts. Leaving unreliability aside, it doesn't sound safe to
me.

Sylvia.

I got a Philips replacement just by complaining - over the phone my
complaint was dismissed but I e-mailed up the chain and got a positive
result on my next try

 

[Grant]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:39:48 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along it.

The wire is a higher temperature allow that withstands going through the
glass to the cathodes -- and the lazy wirewrap doesn't help. Ones I've
pulled apart have four insulation sleeves, maybe they decided to save on
one? Too few turns on the wrapping?

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Be interested what the response is. Can you imagine being a final assembler,
doing these all day, every day? So you let the odd bad one slip through...

Grant.

 

[Grant]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:39:48 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along it.

Looking at the photo again, the third wire down is hardly making contact
due to lack of turns, this would stop heater current to one end of the tube,
thus reducing life. Is that blackening on the tube end near where loose
wire is? The high voltage will get through, but the lower heater voltage
is not going to break through the wire's oxides so easily.

Grant.

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.

** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.




..... Phil

 

[Metro]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:i9aopb$gr3$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.


** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.




.... Phil
I agree. In my experience you don't get much trouble around binding posts.

Although I would have thought a different method of termination could have
been used. Built for price no doubt

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 16/10/2010 10:40 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.


** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.

You don't think that shorting two wires together, when they're meant to
be separate, would do it?

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.

** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.




..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 16/10/2010 9:07 AM, Grant wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:39:48 +1100, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along it.

Looking at the photo again, the third wire down is hardly making contact
due to lack of turns, this would stop heater current to one end of the tube,
thus reducing life. Is that blackening on the tube end near where loose
wire is? The high voltage will get through, but the lower heater voltage
is not going to break through the wire's oxides so easily.

No, the blackening on the tube is on the other end.

The more I look at this, the more I don't like it. It seems to me that
the insulation on all the wires should be longer. As things stand
there's a possibility of contact between the wires and the circuit
board near the pins. Even if one trusts the insulation on the wires, be
it oxide or enamel, to prevent conduction to the circuit board tracks,
the same isn't true of contact with protruding component leads which are
quite sharp. Indeed, I'd have to wonder whether the white insulation is
up to that task.

One of the heater filiaments (the one attached to the uninsulated wire,
not the one at the blackened end) appears open circuit, which is
consistent with the brief flash I saw when I tried to turn the lamp on.
This of course implies that a short between the wires is not the cause,
but could certainly be caused by a short between the uninsulated wire
and a some part of the circuit board.

I think I want to go back to incandescents. At least one knew where one
stood with them.

Sylvia.

 

[F Murtz]

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 16/10/2010 9:07 AM, Grant wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:39:48 +1100, Sylvia
Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin. It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along
it.

Looking at the photo again, the third wire down is hardly making contact
due to lack of turns, this would stop heater current to one end of the
tube,
thus reducing life. Is that blackening on the tube end near where loose
wire is? The high voltage will get through, but the lower heater voltage
is not going to break through the wire's oxides so easily.

No, the blackening on the tube is on the other end.

The more I look at this, the more I don't like it. It seems to me that
the insulation on all the wires should be longer. As things stand
there's a possibility of contact between the wires and the circuit
board near the pins. Even if one trusts the insulation on the wires, be
it oxide or enamel, to prevent conduction to the circuit board tracks,
the same isn't true of contact with protruding component leads which are
quite sharp. Indeed, I'd have to wonder whether the white insulation is
up to that task.

The white insulation is glass (high temp) and just gives physical
separation.

One of the heater filiaments (the one attached to the uninsulated wire,
not the one at the blackened end) appears open circuit, which is
consistent with the brief flash I saw when I tried to turn the lamp on.
This of course implies that a short between the wires is not the cause,
but could certainly be caused by a short between the uninsulated wire
and a some part of the circuit board.

I think I want to go back to incandescents. At least one knew where one
stood with them.

Sylvia.

 

[Metro]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8hse2bFvtaU1@mid.individual.net...

On 16/10/2010 9:07 AM, Grant wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:39:48 +1100, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid
wrote:

8<----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I want to go back to incandescents. At least one knew where one
stood with them.

Sylvia.

I'm with you all the way. Remember that we have Malcolm Turnbull to that
thank for the imposition on to the Australian public for these crappy
innovations

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 16/10/2010 2:08 PM, F Murtz wrote:

Sylvia Else wrote:
On 16/10/2010 9:07 AM, Grant wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:39:48 +1100, Sylvia
Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture
has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin.
It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along
it.

Looking at the photo again, the third wire down is hardly making contact
due to lack of turns, this would stop heater current to one end of the
tube,
thus reducing life. Is that blackening on the tube end near where loose
wire is? The high voltage will get through, but the lower heater voltage
is not going to break through the wire's oxides so easily.

No, the blackening on the tube is on the other end.

The more I look at this, the more I don't like it. It seems to me that
the insulation on all the wires should be longer. As things stand
there's a possibility of contact between the wires and the circuit
board near the pins. Even if one trusts the insulation on the wires, be
it oxide or enamel, to prevent conduction to the circuit board tracks,
the same isn't true of contact with protruding component leads which are
quite sharp. Indeed, I'd have to wonder whether the white insulation is
up to that task.

The white insulation is glass (high temp) and just gives physical
separation.

Well, physical separation provides insulation. But the material is
clearly some kind of weave; given your comment, presumably of glass
fibre. I'd have thought it could be penetrated by the sharp point of a
component lead.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 16/10/2010 12:18 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.


** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.




.... Phil

Ah yes, Phil's standard approach of ignoring a problematic posting, and
reposting his response to an earlier one.

Has the subject line been changed?

No. Surprising.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 16/10/2010 8:43 AM, David Eather wrote:

On 15/10/2010 11:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 15/10/2010 11:48 PM, kreed wrote:
On Oct 15, 9:39 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures. It seems to me
that the insulation on the copper wire at the the top of the picture
has
no business being stuck up there entangled with the attachment pin.
It's
surely meant to be lower down, as the other two are (and why not
three?), to prevent the wires from touching.

It's not even clear whether the wire is heavily oxidised, or badly
enameled - I can make contact using meter probes at some points along
it.

Any, I think Philips should provide a replacement at their cost - I'll
see what they say.

Sylvia.


Whether they would refund on a hacked open CFL is another matter

Legally they should, since it was faulty when I bought it, which means
they breached an implied warranty of merchantable quality under the
Trade Practices Act. The fact that I had to open it up to discover this
doesn't alter the fact.

Of course, many people, including customer support personnel, have never
heard of the TPA, and think that a one year warranty says all there is
to say on the matter.

They probably would send a new one though, probably so few people
bother to claim that it might be cheaper and
easier to simply send a new one rather than argue and get a bad name
for themselves.

I'm wondering whether I should pursue it with a relevant authority. I'm
still wondering about the missing fourth insulator. When the lamp's
assembled, that fourth wire is just floating wherever it feels like
against the circuit board, with the potential to short out arbitrary
pairs of contacts. Leaving unreliability aside, it doesn't sound safe to
me.

Sylvia.

I got a Philips replacement just by complaining - over the phone my
complaint was dismissed but I e-mailed up the chain and got a positive
result on my next try

Now that I knew how they were held together, I had reasonable confidence
I could get one apart and reassemble it without breaking it. It is a
newer model, with a quite different circuit board. The wires are fully
insulated over their entire length. So it looks like Philips themselves
realised that the earlier product wasn't good enough.

And it does still work after I've reassembled it.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.

** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.

Just another boring, fuckwit troll form the maddest bitch in Sydney.





..... Phil

 

[Mr.T]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8htf4bFc27U1@mid.individual.net...

Now that I knew how they were held together, I had reasonable confidence
I could get one apart and reassemble it without breaking it. It is a
newer model, with a quite different circuit board. The wires are fully
insulated over their entire length. So it looks like Philips themselves
realised that the earlier product wasn't good enough.

And it does still work after I've reassembled it.

Lucky you, I have a brand New one bought as a spare, and it never worked at
all when I actually wanted to use it, and the receipt had long gone.
The cost of chasing Phillips is probably as much as the cost of buying a new
lamp, so I simply NEVER buy another Phillips, (or Mirrabella :-(
Still have the old (new) globe I use to warn my friends as well though

MrT.

 

[Techo]

These pictures show absolutely nothing, why are you even bothering. Just
another hobbyist who thinks that they are an expert but in reality not
having a clue.


"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:i9c171$73n$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

A had a Philips compact fluoro fail after what cannot have been a large
number of hours. I pulled it apart to see what was wrong.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/philipsFluoro2.jpg

I rather think the reason is apparent in those pictures.


** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.

Just another boring, fuckwit troll form the maddest bitch in Sydney.





.... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 17/10/2010 10:21 AM, Mr.T wrote:

"Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:8htf4bFc27U1@mid.individual.net...
Now that I knew how they were held together, I had reasonable confidence
I could get one apart and reassemble it without breaking it. It is a
newer model, with a quite different circuit board. The wires are fully
insulated over their entire length. So it looks like Philips themselves
realised that the earlier product wasn't good enough.

And it does still work after I've reassembled it.

Lucky you, I have a brand New one bought as a spare, and it never worked at
all when I actually wanted to use it, and the receipt had long gone.
The cost of chasing Phillips is probably as much as the cost of buying a new
lamp,

Depends how you go about it. Clearly you aren't going to sue Philips in
a small claims tribunal, but if a couple of emails result in a new one
being posted to you (whether that would happen I don't know), then it's
probably worth while.

so I simply NEVER buy another Phillips, (or Mirrabella :-(

Still have the old (new) globe I use to warn my friends as well though

I suspect you'll run out of brands quite quickly using that approach.

Sylvia.