EAGLE Netlist conversion

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:18:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On 16 Jan 2004 13:06:00 -0800, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Not one single person has answered my MC1530 posting correctly :-(

Which post was that?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Posted at MC1530-TeachingExercise.pdf on the S.E.D/Schematics page of
my website.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

It looked too much like work, for way too little money.

I used to play chess, too, until I realized that one should always be
paid for thinking.

John
 
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:02:05 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:18:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On 16 Jan 2004 13:06:00 -0800, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Not one single person has answered my MC1530 posting correctly :-(

Which post was that?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Posted at MC1530-TeachingExercise.pdf on the S.E.D/Schematics page of
my website.

...Jim Thompson


It looked too much like work, for way too little money.

I used to play chess, too, until I realized that one should always be
paid for thinking.

John
Click to expand...
Izzat when you joined Mensa ?:)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:15:26 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Posted at MC1530-TeachingExercise.pdf on the S.E.D/Schematics page of
my website.

...Jim Thompson


It looked too much like work, for way too little money.

I used to play chess, too, until I realized that one should always be
paid for thinking.

John

Izzat when you joined Mensa ?:)

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
No, that's when I joined this newsgroup.

John
 
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:34:31 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:15:26 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:


Posted at MC1530-TeachingExercise.pdf on the S.E.D/Schematics page of
my website.

...Jim Thompson


It looked too much like work, for way too little money.

I used to play chess, too, until I realized that one should always be
paid for thinking.

John

Izzat when you joined Mensa ?:)

...Jim Thompson

No, that's when I joined this newsgroup.

John
Click to expand...
LOL ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
In sci.electronics.design Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
On 16 Jan 2004 13:06:00 -0800, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Not one single person has answered my MC1530 posting correctly :-(

Which post was that?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Posted at MC1530-TeachingExercise.pdf on the S.E.D/Schematics page of
my website.
Click to expand...
Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.

--
Rick
 
On 21 Jan 2004 10:34:34 GMT, "Rick" <rik_nntp@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
On 16 Jan 2004 13:06:00 -0800, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

Not one single person has answered my MC1530 posting correctly :-(

Which post was that?

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

Posted at MC1530-TeachingExercise.pdf on the S.E.D/Schematics page of
my website.

Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.
Click to expand...
I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson wrote:

Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.


I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.
 
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:02:52 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.


I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson

That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.
Click to expand...
Yes.

I was hoping to convey some analytic thinking, but to no avail :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Fred Bloggs wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to
notice.



I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson


That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah- and this "YD" character also posts under the name ChaosMaster-
aren't we lucky to have him. YD means Yellow Dirtball or Yankee Detester
, take your pick.
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:02:52 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.


I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson

That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.


Yes.

I was hoping to convey some analytic thinking, but to no avail :-(

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
I am not exactly sure- but in the case of subcircuits like that Q9/Q10,
you may be relying on emitter area ratios to set some of the bias
currents. Then Q3-Q4-Q5 is another transcendental. The circuit is tough.
 
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:14:45 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:02:52 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.


I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson

That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.


Yes.

I was hoping to convey some analytic thinking, but to no avail :-(

...Jim Thompson

I am not exactly sure- but in the case of subcircuits like that Q9/Q10,
you may be relying on emitter area ratios to set some of the bias
currents. Then Q3-Q4-Q5 is another transcendental. The circuit is tough.
Click to expand...
Q9/Q10 relied on 1:1 area. One year into production without problem,
the device was moved into the new Motorola process building "P".
Yield went to hell on a handbasket. The problem resolved to offset
issues between Q9/Q10. I simply removed 100ohms from R10 and placed
100ohms in each emitter. Problem solved.

Q3-Q4-Q5 run at essentially the same current, so tracking error is
second order.

And this was the good ol' days... this was all breadboarded first.

I don't know that the circuit is "tough", it is simple-minded, but
subtle; everything about IC's is transcendental ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote (in <400E949A.6030104@nospam.com>) about 'Not one single person
has answered my MC1530 posting correctly', on Wed, 21 Jan 2004:
Jim Thompson wrote:

Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.


I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson

That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.

That's what I like about you, Fred. You're all heart.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
 
In sci.electronics.design Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

Hmmph.
I posted the correct answer to this on Saturday, but nobody seemed to notice.


I guess that slipped by me since it's numeric rather than a general
Algebraic solution. But it looks correct.

...Jim Thompson

That was from the Auton-Bell-Rick consortium of multiple personality-
purely blind arithmetic with no insight whatsoever- a worthless response.
Click to expand...
God how awful - the object of the excercise was to determine the output
voltage of a relatively simple op-amp, and that's exactly what I - and
only I - did. Didn't spot your insightful response anywhere.



--
Rick
 
In sci.electronics.design Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:


I was hoping to convey some analytic thinking, but to no avail :-(
Click to expand...
Jim - did you not look at my post - it should be fairly evident that
I MUST have understood and analysed the circuit in order to be able
to provide this numerical answer. If you'd wanted purely algebraic
responses, then why include the component values?

--
Rick
 
In sci.electronics.design Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
I am not exactly sure- but in the case of subcircuits like that Q9/Q10,
you may be relying on emitter area ratios to set some of the bias
currents.

Q9/Q10 are, you dimwit, a current mirror. There are newborns who
Click to expand...
know that the currents in a current mirror scale with the ratio
of the emitter areas.

Then Q3-Q4-Q5 is another transcendental. The circuit is tough.
Click to expand...
It is neither transcental nor tough.

Q4/Q5/R5/R9 set the voltage on the base of Q3, which defines
its emitter voltage and hence the current through R3. This
current is the bias current for the long-tail pair.
Was that sufficiently non-numerical for you?

Still not enough? Let's go through it piecemeal:

1. Determine current through Q4/Q5:
I = (Vee - 2*Vbe) / (R5/R9)

2. Determine voltage on base of Q3:
Vb = I*R5 + 2*Vbe

3. Determine voltage on emitter of Q3:
Ve = Vb - Vbe

4. Determine current through R3 and hence Q3:
Ibias = Ve / R3
= (R5 * (Vee - 2*Vbe)/(R9 + R5) + Vbe) / R3

--
Rick
 
On 21 Jan 2004 17:50:45 GMT, "Rick" <rik_nntp@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:


I was hoping to convey some analytic thinking, but to no avail :-(

Jim - did you not look at my post - it should be fairly evident that
I MUST have understood and analysed the circuit in order to be able
to provide this numerical answer. If you'd wanted purely algebraic
responses, then why include the component values?
Click to expand...
Of course you did, I just prefer an Algebraic solution... numerically
doesn't help the silent lurkers with understanding.

I'll leave the values out next time, and make it an exercise for the
student to optimize the circuit performance ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
In news:4igt00pr54jglh4iekbtb9u6ciu6n3pn5b@4ax.com (Jim Thompson):
On 21 Jan 2004 17:50:45 GMT, "Rick" <rik_nntp@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:


I was hoping to convey some analytic thinking, but to no avail :-(

Jim - did you not look at my post - it should be fairly evident that
I MUST have understood and analysed the circuit in order to be able
to provide this numerical answer. If you'd wanted purely algebraic
responses, then why include the component values?

Of course you did, I just prefer an Algebraic solution... numerically
doesn't help the silent lurkers with understanding.

I'll leave the values out next time, and make it an exercise for the
student to optimize the circuit performance ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

Good idea. Just thought I'd add that to some of us, the dissection of an
op-amp at the discrete level is new stuff. 3 or more pairs of current
mirrors, biased and matched is an interesting concept, and all the math in
the world is not going to discribe the logic behind how it works or what it
is doing. There is some info on how these work at the bottom of
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/Semi/SEMI_8.html, however. So
not everyone is as smart[ass] as Rick. Some of us need the newborn,
non-numerical, piecemeal equivalents. Some of us are also not solely
electrical engineers, or particularly fond of math. (Re: Albert Einstein.)
Shoot, some of us have a hard time remembering what day it is. :)
 
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:52:27 -0500, "Mark J." <127.0.0.1> wrote:

In news:4igt00pr54jglh4iekbtb9u6ciu6n3pn5b@4ax.com (Jim Thompson):
[snip]
I'll leave the values out next time, and make it an exercise for the
student to optimize the circuit performance ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Good idea. Just thought I'd add that to some of us, the dissection of an
op-amp at the discrete level is new stuff. 3 or more pairs of current
mirrors, biased and matched is an interesting concept, and all the math in
the world is not going to discribe the logic behind how it works or what it
is doing. There is some info on how these work at the bottom of
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/Semi/SEMI_8.html, however. So
not everyone is as smart[ass] as Rick. Some of us need the newborn,
non-numerical, piecemeal equivalents. Some of us are also not solely
electrical engineers, or particularly fond of math. (Re: Albert Einstein.)
Shoot, some of us have a hard time remembering what day it is. :)
Click to expand...
Tom Frederiksen's book is a very good tutorial (if you can find a
copy)...

"Intuitive IC Op Amps"
National's Semiconductor Technology Series
Š 1984

No ISBN

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
In sci.electronics.design Mark J. <127.0.0.1> wrote:

Some of us need the newborn,
non-numerical, piecemeal equivalents. Some of us are also not solely
electrical engineers, or particularly fond of math. (Re: Albert Einstein.)
Click to expand...
Mark - the newborn stuff was just a swipe at Mr Bloggs who clearly didn't
understand the circuit - or even its bias, for crying out loud - but who
still felt the need to denigrate me, even though I was the only one to
demonstrate the correct answer.

--
Rick
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rick <rik_nntp@dsl.pipex.com>
wrote (in <400ed9a5$0$2431$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>) about 'Not one
single person has answered my MC1530 posting correctly', on Wed, 21 Jan
2004:
but who
still felt the need to denigrate me,
Click to expand...
Don't be flattered, FB denigrates everyone quite impartially. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top