EAGLE Netlist conversion

In <CYGdne5hxMpf4OfcRVn-ow@texas.net>, on 10/23/04 at 10:50 AM,
"James Jackson" <JOJ@Texas.net> said:

What _I_ want to know is... how do you get 'paid'?

Do you get a percentage of the estimate fee up-front upon acceptance of your
quote? Or only after the work is done - upon delivery of the job?
Click to expand...
I don't have a plethora of customers, or a very diverse base to work with, so
in my own case, I have a goog, usually long, relationship with the companies I
do work for, and just invoice them net 30 days after the work is done.
Sometimes I do engineering design work as well as the PCB, and if the job will
take more than a few weeks, I invoice them for work done every week or two, so
it doesn't take me a month to get any money for the job.

The few places I have done work for that I do not know, I usually ask for 25%
up front, or some amount close to that, but again, I am not finding full time
work doing this, so its just a job here and a job there when I can find it.

Do you release the CAD files to the client?
Click to expand...
Again, not being the all encompassing full time pro, sometimes I do, sometimes
I don't. <g> If they ask for them, I oblige. The idea of giving away library
components is valid, but I do get paid for the time it takes to make them, so
I figure the customer owns them, just as if I did it on a full time job for a
steady employer. When I was doing portrait photography, I had the same
approach, in that I was paid to create negatives, so they belong to the client
if they ask for them. Probably not the brightest approach, but that is how I
do things <shrug> Its a grey area for sure.

How do you handle clients that tell YOU when they pay - like... instead of a
'Net 30' days, they insist that they only pay 'Net 45' days? (Currently, I
have no answer... other than to 'up' my fees for those that want to pay
slower - to compensate me for the added burden of having to wait 15 days
longer.)
Click to expand...
That hasn't happened to me yet, but I think I would do as you say you do,
increase the charges to compensate for the aggravation. Net 45 is a joke. I
would be working pretty slow if that was how I got paid.

I wish I was in a position of having a lot of work, and a lot of these kinds
of decisions to make, but as I said, much of what I do comes from companies I
have known for years, so I am comfortable being lenient in a lot of these
areas.

I do send copies of all the fab files to the client all the time along with
the final invoice. If they ask, I will forward them to their favorite fab
house, but I don't want to be in charge of those files once the job is done.
Copies are kept here in case they blow it and lose the ones I give them, but
they don't get replacements for free :)

Thanks for the input. I am interested in how others work.

John
 
John,

Great feedback and comments. Thanks!

"Copies are kept here in case they blow it and lose the ones I give them,
but
they don't get replacements for free :)"

Interesting comment. I have one client... that feels that they have the
'right' to lose the CD-ROM with all the database and related files - and
then ask for a new replacement from me... every time they are irresponsible
enough to mis-place their copy. (Can we say scatter-brained?)

(The interesting side-effect is that they eventually find ALL of the CD's -
and then do not know which one to use - so hand them ALL to the poor
individual - whose job is to then sort them all out.)

So - how much do you charge for 'replacements'?

Regards,

James Jackson
Oztronics


<uvcceet@juno.com> wrote in message
news:417d8f7f$2$ouf73$mr2ice@giganews.aros.net...
In <CYGdne5hxMpf4OfcRVn-ow@texas.net>, on 10/23/04 at 10:50 AM,
"James Jackson" <JOJ@Texas.net> said:

What _I_ want to know is... how do you get 'paid'?

Do you get a percentage of the estimate fee up-front upon acceptance of
your
quote? Or only after the work is done - upon delivery of the job?

I don't have a plethora of customers, or a very diverse base to work with,
so
in my own case, I have a goog, usually long, relationship with the
companies I
do work for, and just invoice them net 30 days after the work is done.
Sometimes I do engineering design work as well as the PCB, and if the job
will
take more than a few weeks, I invoice them for work done every week or
two, so
it doesn't take me a month to get any money for the job.

The few places I have done work for that I do not know, I usually ask for
25%
up front, or some amount close to that, but again, I am not finding full
time
work doing this, so its just a job here and a job there when I can find
it.

Do you release the CAD files to the client?

Again, not being the all encompassing full time pro, sometimes I do,
sometimes
I don't. <g> If they ask for them, I oblige. The idea of giving away
library
components is valid, but I do get paid for the time it takes to make them,
so
I figure the customer owns them, just as if I did it on a full time job
for a
steady employer. When I was doing portrait photography, I had the same
approach, in that I was paid to create negatives, so they belong to the
client
if they ask for them. Probably not the brightest approach, but that is how
I
do things <shrug> Its a grey area for sure.

How do you handle clients that tell YOU when they pay - like... instead
of a
'Net 30' days, they insist that they only pay 'Net 45' days? (Currently,
I
have no answer... other than to 'up' my fees for those that want to pay
slower - to compensate me for the added burden of having to wait 15 days
longer.)

That hasn't happened to me yet, but I think I would do as you say you do,
increase the charges to compensate for the aggravation. Net 45 is a joke.
I
would be working pretty slow if that was how I got paid.

I wish I was in a position of having a lot of work, and a lot of these
kinds
of decisions to make, but as I said, much of what I do comes from
companies I
have known for years, so I am comfortable being lenient in a lot of these
areas.

I do send copies of all the fab files to the client all the time along
with
the final invoice. If they ask, I will forward them to their favorite fab
house, but I don't want to be in charge of those files once the job is
done.
Copies are kept here in case they blow it and lose the ones I give them,
but
they don't get replacements for free :)

Thanks for the input. I am interested in how others work.

John
Click to expand...
 
(The interesting side-effect is that they eventually find ALL of the CD's -
and then do not know which one to use - so hand them ALL to the poor
individual - whose job is to then sort them all out.)
Click to expand...
I put the name and date on the CD. Sharpie.

--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
 
john.sosa@seagate.com (John Sosa) writes:
This question is to all those that prototype using wire wrapping.
Currently, I have a large design that I want to wire wrap, and have
done the all the CAD drawings in Orcad. (I generally do everything in
Orcad) The problem with this is that I don't really want to wire wrap
directly from the schematic. Also, I have heard from friends that
there used to be some software that converted netlists to a list of
wirewrap connections. Also, this software was intelligent enought to
not give more than three wraps per post, etc. Apperantly the software
gave a listing of the order and between what chips the wraps needed to
go. I have searched on Google using different search criteria, but
nothing.
Click to expand...
PCB does something close - when you first import a netlist, it creates
a "rats nest" showing the minimum spanning tree for each net (doesn't
everyone do this?). Since sources for PCB are available (not everyone
does *this* ;), you could easily modify the spanning tree algorithm to
disqualify any pin with three rats to it already, then you can
highlight each net one at a time as you do the wrapping.

Of course, you still have to place all your footprints and such first,
but the advantage is that since it know where everything is, it can
minimize wire length.

http://pcb.sourceforge.net/

Hmmm... as you do each wire, you can push that rat to a hidden copper
layer, removing it from the display. As long as you don't use the
"optimize rats" partway through a net, else the three-link-max rule
won't work.
 
Bob Stephens wrote:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:24:01 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote:

Television is having a dramatic affect on the English language.
It is standardizing the US on the Midwestern dialect of US
English.... and it has done so within my lifetime. When I was
a kid, we used to travel throughout the US and Canada quite a lot,
and I used to marvel at the way people in different parts of the
country talked, but now, they all sound mostly the same.

-Chuck


Really? When's the last time y'all traveled down south? Or Minnesohwtah for
that matter.
Click to expand...
Well, I have been in Pennsylvania, New York, West Virginia, Michigan, Ohio,
Ontario, Wisconsin, Maryland and Virginia so far this year. My mother is
from Minnesota. And I have traveled in the South quite extensively over
the last couple of years. And some would say that I live in the south.

-Chuck
 
"Michael Bails" <bailsybro@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:98bf1ac8.0410201357.5eaf47f4@posting.google.com...
Hello Group,

Could someone please advise me on creating a spice3 output file
(through the unix format) which prints a given output with no spaces
or page breaks. For example, I'm trying to determine the real and
imaginary parts of the admittance in a circuit and output it to a
file, so I use the following command:

print i(v1)/v(1) > ../home/result.dat

When I view the result.dat file, it looks good, however, there is a
np> after the 54th entry. I'm trying to get a printout that has no
page break. I'm trying to take this file and manipulate it but the
new page problem keeps arising creating errors in my code that is
trying to read this data. If I use less then 54 data points, I don't
get the <np>, however, some of my analyses require many more then 54
data results.

Regards,

Michael Bails
Department of Electrical Engineering
University of Pittsburgh
Click to expand...
Why not pipe it into sed or awk, replace the page break entry with a space
character, then pipe the output of that into the text file you want?
 
"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:417850C2.847CE6ED@hotmail.com...
Clarence wrote:

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4171E55B.3C551560@hotmail.com...

Robert Hoffman wrote:
Is there ANYTHING out there that:....... is written in American English
Anything wrong with English English ?
Other than hard to decipher?

Please elaborate ?
Graham
Click to expand...
I would think it obvious, it is often sprinkled with many slang, or colloquial
words which are not used universally.


--
Blocked Sender list: Feel free to add these to you own list.
Added due to ----------------------------------- Reason

Bill.Sloman@IEEE.ORG For Foul Language
Kevin Aylward sales@anasoft.co.uk For Abject Stupidity
John Fields sales@austininsturments.com For Thuggish behavior
feerguy9@cs.com TROLL
Don Prescott DBPrescot@aol.com For RUDE Conduct
Fred Bloggs For Insults and Foul language
 
"Henk Boonsma" <hboonsma@teranet.news> wrote in message
news:1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews...
"GrantM." <grant@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.0410140810.17116fc1@posting.google.com...
I know various iteration of this question have been asked before but
it's still a good thread to follow.

I personally have been using Protel for a few years and have been
quite happy with it. As much as I have read about it's instability
it's a rare day that it crashes and usually thats due to other factors
(running *way* to many programs on the same computer) and thats on
four different systems over four years. I found it to be a quick,
intuitive program that has tons of power under it's relativly simple
interface. The only problem is the price... $7995 USD.


Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess
that
Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into
thinking
that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't. There are
plenty
of good low-cost and even free CAE programs out there.
Click to expand...
Well said (though you should not single out just Protel - there are others
similarly marketed).
 
Out of interest I tried simulating the original (symmetrical) circuit
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/motorimages/3.gif
with CircuitMaker. But after an hour or so I'm darned if I can get it
working. Typical error messages include:
Warning: Gmin step failed
Warning: source stepping failed
doAnalyses: Iteration limit reached'

Anyone care to try it in some other package please, such as LT
SWCADIII? I'm assuming there's some nifty trick for getting an
H-Bridge to converge in Spice...

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
"Helmut Sennewald" <helmutsennewald@t-online.de> wrote:


Hello Terry,
you don't need another simulator, instead you need a correct
circuit diagram. Your circuit will never work as intended.

Let's look for example to Q4 and Q3 where the (base-)current flows.
It flows from
+9V -> Emitter Q4 -> Base Q3 -> Emitter Q3
regardless you drive any base current by Q1.
This is a short from +9V to ground by 2 Vbe-diodes.

From where do you have this wrong circuit diagram?

Best Regards,
Helmut
Click to expand...
Thanks Helmut, but I realise the circuit is fatally flawed! I still
wanted to be able to see exactly what happens on applying power to it,
for each of the 4 possible input conditions.

The circuit is at
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/motorimages/motorckt4.shtml

and the original thread discussing it is here:
Subject: Motor Control Circuit Problem
Date: 28 Oct 2004 15:48:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1099003721.067016.22050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:47:08 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Seeing occasionally some strange memory error messages upon close of
Paint Shop Pro or Agent.

Looking for recommendations for software to test RAM memory in my PCs.

Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
I use memtest86 as well. Once the floppy is created it self boots
it's own operating system (hopefully your cmos is set up for a
preferential floppy boot). It says it maximizes the memory available
for testing (It seems to).

Then it goes through all the tests you can think of. Walking ones,
walking zeros, etc.

Regards,
Larry
 
Yuri Tregubov wrote:
Dear colleagues,

It's interesting to know the complexity of
your projects designed with EAGLE.

Also, are EAGLE production files accepted by
majority of PCB manufactures, so how standard
they are ?

I consider to make a DSP/FPGA board.
Click to expand...
Although I don't use it (I use Easy PC), I evaluated Eagle a few years
ago, and found it to be a very competently put- together package. It was
only the higher price of the unlimited version that put me off.
Assuming it's been improved since, it will by now be very good indeed.
I'm sure it is totally capable of laying out a satisfactory DSP/FPGA
board (what packages? BGA or QFP? How many layers etc.)- in any case,
you won't find many PCB manufactureres who will make small runs to
tighter design rules than .006".

PCB Pool at least take Eagle PCB files directly, but everybody takes Gerber.

paul Burke
 
Leon Heller <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:
: > In summary, I see no reason why Eagle won't satisfy your needs.

: If it gets too difficult, Pulsonix will import Eagle designs and libraries.
: :cool:

Does it work on Linux and Mac?

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
"Uwe Bonnes" <bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message
news:cm683v$m7n$2@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de...
Leon Heller <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:
: > In summary, I see no reason why Eagle won't satisfy your needs.

: If it gets too difficult, Pulsonix will import Eagle designs and
libraries.
: :cool:

Does it work on Linux and Mac?
Click to expand...
No, only Win machines.

Leon
 
"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:8cd5o0hk47mq0r3r28jjmg2mh3hcf954rd@4ax.com...
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

"Clarence" <no@No.com> wrote:


"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1285o09qi313ndsoc47sgvr4qfuj88uafl@4ax.com...
"Helmut Sennewald" <helmutsennewald@t-online.de> wrote:


Hello Terry,
you don't need another simulator, instead you need a correct
circuit diagram. Your circuit will never work as intended.

Let's look for example to Q4 and Q3 where the (base-)current flows.
It flows from
+9V -> Emitter Q4 -> Base Q3 -> Emitter Q3
regardless you drive any base current by Q1.
This is a short from +9V to ground by 2 Vbe-diodes.

From where do you have this wrong circuit diagram?

Best Regards,
Helmut

Thanks Helmut, but I realize the circuit is fatally flawed! I still
wanted to be able to see exactly what happens on applying power to it,
for each of the 4 possible input conditions.

The circuit is at
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/motorimages/motorckt4.shtml

and the original thread discussing it is here:
Subject: Motor Control Circuit Problem
Date: 28 Oct 2004 15:48:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1099003721.067016.22050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com


You may get some operation by inserting a low value resistor in each
emitter
lead. That would give a indication without any calculation being infinite.

Thanks, yes, that was Robert's suggestion too, in the main s.e.d
thread. Will try it and report back.

Now done so, and it worked fine. (With 1 ohm base resistor for Q4 and
Q6, current with my simplistic models was around 670 A.)

Yep! I have learned by multiple examples that Spice can not converge with any
Click to expand...
calculation = 0 or Infinity. Seems reasonable.
 
Quoting Tom Seim [soar2morrow@yahoo.com], that posted to sci.electronics.cad on
1 Nov 2004 22:07:22 -0800 under article
<6c71b322.0411012207.3c5af4a6@posting.google.com>:
The National Association of Manufacturers rates Kerry with a ZERO for
his Senatorial record on job creation (when Kerry bothered to show up
for an actual vote).
Click to expand...
What this has to do with sci.electronics.cad?

You're both 'american idiot' and 'everybody`s fool'.

[]s
--
Chaos MasterŽ, posting from Brazil.
"And if I bleed, I'll bleed / knowing you don't care. "

http://marreka.no-ip.com | http://tinyurl.com/46vru | http://renan182.no-ip.org
| http://marreka.blogspot.com (in Portuguese)
 
Jim Thompson wrote:

http://www.ronanddave.com/week/week.htm
Click to expand...
It's a matter of respective priorities. IOW for each, the
first is mandatory, the second if they can be bothered to
get around to it.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:08:37 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:56:23 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:10:10 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

My oldest daughter is a candidate (and most likely winner) for
Chairman of the Republican Party in Yuma County, Arizona ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Congratulations! P.S. Did you get the e-mail I sent?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Yes. But haven't had time to look into it. Business is BOOMING!

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
Okay, no rush. I just wanted to make sure that it didn't get filtered
out. When I get the parts and have a chance to evaluate them (probably
a few weeks), I'll send an update.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:18:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Anyone have experience at creating a CMOS current mirror with really
high output Z?

I'm trying attain about 1G-ohm, at 100Hz to 5KHz.

I can use cascodes and feedback loops.
Click to expand...
I've done 32khz xtal oscillators than ran <100na supply. Some of the
mosfets were running a couple of na. This has been processed and
worked. A friend did one that used 50na, naturally :)

I'm playing with a balanced charge pump right now with drive currents
in the 1na range. I've got a simple feedback circuit that improves
the match between the nch and pch mirrors. This seems to work. The
switching is at 6khz. (I may also look at switched c before I'm
done.)

So you're not far off I guess. Vittoz has some pretty good papers on
micropower stuff. As I recall analog devices has a dual gyro chip
that uses gm multipliers for dc stabilization of the charge amps. The
resistance is likely in the range you're thinking of.

What are you trying to do?

Regards,
Larry
 
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