Driving LEDs with a battery pack

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:57:05 -0700 (PDT), fungus
<openglMYSOCKS@artlum.com> wrote:

On Jul 19, 3:40 am, ehsjr <eh...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

In all cases, the energy is stored in the magnetic field,
regardless of where that field is - in a ferrous core or in air.

So there's some energy stored in the air around the wire?

That's too weird for my tiny brain.
Go here and start near Figure 5 and read down from there. Particularly
where it is titled "Energy Storage in Inductor." But above that, as
well. In that titled area, they will take note of the fact that the
permeability factor of the iron core (or other material) actually is
in the divisor of the iron core term in the energy equation, which
with any large permeability means it gets divided by a pretty large
number. Note that in the example they analyze, about 2% of the energy
is in the core and the rest is in the air gap of the gapped core.

Also, inductors work just fine in vacuum.. so it's not the molecules
-- it is space itself. The atoms (those able to align their spin
states, anyway) actually are more like dead-shorts where energy isn't
much stored. They align up and then bridge over between bits of
vacuum where the energy gets mostly placed. In air, which is more a
very thin liquid, there aren't so many 'dead shorts' (they don't even
align that much where they exist) and the effective permeability is
much the same as vacuum. With a chunk of iron, and many many more
atoms present which are each quite willing to align with the field and
become dead shorts for the field, the energy that is present gets
stored again in the interstitial areas between these aligned atoms.
However, the atoms themselves, because they align so well, in effect
shorten the magnetic path length from what we humans on the outside
imagine.

Okay, now I'm going to make both our heads hurt for a moment.

Inductance is really just a bag holding loose constants laying around
in the equations. There's a whole bunch:

(1) L = mu_0 * mu_r * N^2 * A_e / l_e

mu_0 is the magnetic constant for a vacuum. mu_r is some arbitrary
multiplier for the core material, in cases where it isn't a vacuum.
We'll get to that one in a moment. N is just the number of windings.

A_e is the effective cross-section area of the core and l_e is the
length of the magnetic loop or circle that the magnetic field must go
through. Think of A_e times l_e as the total volume that the magnetic
field's energy occupies. With an iron core, this is easier to figure
out as you can pretty much measure it with a tape measure. Very
little energy leaks beyond the volume of the core itself (in
well-designed operation anyway) because all those iron atoms line up
and allow the field to remain mostly contained due to their very low
reluctance, dead-shorting effect. The magnetic energy 'wants' to take
the path of least resistance and the iron atoms practically beg to be
used by the field. Since vacuum is more 'difficult' for the field, it
channels itself through all those dead-shorts. So the volume is
pretty easy to measure since the magnetic field has no 'interest' in
going beyond the core (unless the core becomes 'saturated.') If the
inductor is an air core (or vacuum, in effect) then the magnetic field
concentrates in the interior of the coil and then, as it reaches
either the north or south end of the wire coil it then 'blooms' out
into the space around the coil and tries to find the way to the other
pole through a path of least resistance. This volume is harder to
measure with a tape, obviously. It's hard to 'see' exactly how much
volume is occupied by most of the field. So designers measure what
they can, which is the area of the coil cross-section, and then fudge
things by guessing at the length of the loop, instead. The area is
easy to measure, the magnetic path length is harder.. for an air core.
So experimental data becomes the basis for educated guesses about that
path length and we get these funky air core equations with what may
appear to be arbitrary constants tacked into them. (Neither of these
cases are a 'gapped core' case, but careful thinking about the two
I've already talked about lead to an easy understanding of gapped
cores, as well.)

Now let's return to the nifty inductance equation and address
ourselves to the 'dead-short' aspect of iron atoms:

(1) L = mu_0 * mu_r * N^2 * A_e / l_e

For an air core, just remove mu_r:

(2) L = mu_0 * N^2 * A_e / l_e

This won't actually look like Wheeler's equation (see: Wheeler, H.A.
'Simple Inductance Formulas for Radio Coils', Proc. I.R.E., Vol 16,
p.1398, Oct.1928), which is:

(3) L = 0.001 * N^2 * r^2 / (228*r + 254*l)

Where L is in Henrys, r is the coil radius in meters, l is the coil
length in meters (and must be greater than 0.8*r to work well) and N
is the number of turns used.

But that is because, as I said earlier, while we have an easy time
measuring A_e if we assume it is simply the cross-section area of the
coil's winding, we have a VERY hard time estimating the effective path
length of the magnetic field, which is l_e. And because of that, we
reach for experimental evidence to guide us and come up with rather
more pragmatic ways of estimating values than the pure theory approach
gives.

Refer back to equation (1) and compare it again with equation (2). Now
imagine all those dead-short iron atoms in the case of equation (1).
Since the iron atoms bridge over between bits of vacuum in the
material, and act like magnetic dead-shorts, the distance that these
atoms account for are, in effect, ignorable. The magnetic field gets
a free ride with each iron atom and then faces that nasty vacuum
before it can hop over to the next iron atom for some more of that
wonderful free ride, again. It takes energy to hop across the vacuum
and that is where the energy sits. Not in the iron atoms, which give
a free ride. But in the vacuum spaces in between the atoms because
that is where it takes energy to make the hop. So all the energy gets
stored in the vacuum gaps, not the atoms themselves. (Not if they
align easily, anyway. Many atoms don't 'help' the field any, don't
line up, and so the magnetic field doesn't get a free ride from them.
But iron works really good this way.)

All these iron atoms, giving the magnetic field a free ride over to
the next bit of vacuum, in effect short out or bypass that much of the
distance. So that distance doesn't count in the magnetic path length.
Really, the actual magnetic path length is just the vacuum parts that
the magnetic field must punch through and consume energy bridging. So
if we could just somehow only add up the vacuum parts and ignore the
iron atom parts of the loop length (l_e), we'd be able to figure out
just how much of the iron core loop length is actually just vacuum
(from the magnetic field point of view.) If we knew that, we'd just
use equation (2). That value for l_e would be much, much shorter than
what our tape measure would say about it, obviously.

However, we have tape measures and iron is easy to hold and see and
measuring the bits of vacuum isn't easy to measure. So the other
alternative, since the measurable l_e is so much longer due to all
those iron atoms in there, is to come up with something in the
numerator of the equation to compensate. In other words, add another
factor. This is mu_r seen in equation (1). It is there to compensate
l_e in the denominator for the error due to the fact that we measure
the total length using a tape measure instead of using some magical
means of adding up all those bits of vacuum hops that the magnetic
field actually must make and ignoring all those iron atoms. Since the
loop length of the iron core measured with common measuring means is
so much longer than that of the vacuum (which is what we really want
to know) hops the magnetic field will make, we'd calculate far too
little an inductance figure if we didn't add in this new factor.

In effect, __all__ of the energy gets stored in vacuum. Always has
been that way, always will be. For atoms that don't align at all, no
bridging takes place and the vacuum space they occupy gets filled with
it's part of the magetic energy hopping past them. For atoms that do
align easily, they act as dead-shorts so that the magnetic field
expends very little energy bridging across the tiny bit of space they
occupy along the path.

Jon
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:09:37 GMT, Jon Kirwan
<jonk@infinitefactors.org> wrote:

http://dpruessner.info/wiki/index.php?title=Transformer_Magnetics

Sorry.

Jon
 
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:32:00 +1200, greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:

Jon Kirwan wrote:
it seems to me that the
effective permeability listed for any particular core (which is a max
figure) may also tell us just how much effective air gap there is.

I don't think you need to know the actual air gap, just
the average permeability of the core material (taking any
explicitly-introduced gap into account).

snip of points I'm not entirely sure I followed well

At this point my head is starting to hurt. I think
we need an equation linking all these things together,
to make the effect they have on each other more
apparent.
Well, I just posted some thoughts and a web site with some nifty
equations and addressing itself to the idea that energy is mostly
stored in the gaps.. not in the mass of the core, itself. See if it
makes any sense.

Jon
 
On Jul 19, 10:09 am, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
In effect, __all__ of the energy gets stored in vacuum.
So the iron is just shaping/directing the field?

(And holding the wires in place)
 
ehsjr wrote:
fungus wrote:

On Jul 17, 6:25 pm, ehsjr <eh...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

They can argue - but they would be wrong. In spades.
To prove that, just take about 8 or 9 feet of the
twisted pair. Don't wrap it into a coil - just
connect it to replace the transformer, and the thing
plays fine.



In that case where is the energy stored...?

I thought the Joule Thief worked by storing energy
somewhere then releasing it when the transistor
switches.

/Still waiting for my magnet wire to arrive - I had to
order some on eBay.


The energy is stored in exactly the same "place" whether using
an air wound or ferrite core transformer: the magnetic field.

When you have a transformer wound on a core of magnetic material
the magnetic field is concentrated in the core. With an air
wound transformer, the magnetic field is not as concentrated,
it occupies a larger volume.

In all cases, the energy is stored in the magnetic field,
regardless of where that field is - in a ferrous core or in air.

Ed

Maybe reluctance is what you're looking for?
 
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:14:10 -0700 (PDT), fungus
<openglMYSOCKS@artlum.com> wrote:

On Jul 19, 10:09 am, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:

In effect, __all__ of the energy gets stored in vacuum.

So the iron is just shaping/directing the field?

(And holding the wires in place)
It provides the shorter path, the one taking less energy, so yes.
That's kind of the way I like to look at it. Everything in nature
appears to choose the path of least energy change. A soap bubble
instantly takes up the shape that requires the least energy,
regardless of any nearby structures it also clings to. Things like
that. So the iron just presents a very low energy path for the field,
mostly as I see it because each atom easily aligns if tweaked just a
little by the field and provides a near-zero-energy-hop to help the
field bridge over all that space it otherwise would need to get
through.

The other aspect is that there are an infinite number of 'closed
magnetic bubble surfaces', none of which may cross through each other.
Each 'surface' is 'looking' for the lowest energy circuit through
space, but cannot cross through any other surface. So they 'bunch up'
a lot in the iron, which is the way-easy path, but stack. This is why
we can usually ignore the air around the core, as almost all of the
magnetic bubbles will be found crowded up in the iron core. They
pinch together a whole lot and stay nearby, that way. Eventually,
enough bubble surface density occurs that the 'lowest energy' path
starts to include a little of the space around the iron instead of
entirely within in. But for all intents and purposes, we can imagine
that all of the magnetic field stays in the iron core because that is
far and away the lowest energy pathway for almost every magnetic
bubble surface.

These easy paths are easy, though, because the atoms provide free
hops. Which means that the effective path length through space (where
energy is actually stored) is much shorter. This 'shortness' is what
the mu_r measures. The way I see this is that if you have a core
material with a typical permeability of 5000, then that means that the
vacuum portion in the typical lowest energy pathway through any
specific length of it is 5000 times shorter than what you'd measure
with a tape measure. Or, if you have 5 inches of the material, then
the iron atoms in it provide (5/5000) or 1/1000th of an inch of vacuum
that the magnetic field must cross over by force, with 4+999/1000ths
inches of free hops across iron atoms. This is why I spoke earlier
about my imagination regarding why very high permeability materials
tend to also be conductive, as well. On the other hand, there are low
perm materials (typically in the low hundreds, so let's use a figure
of 250) where you'd get (5/250) or 1/50th of an inch of vacuum and 4+
49/50ths of free hops. In that case, there is enough "binder" in the
material to separate bits of iron and keep conduction down, while
mostly providing a shorter pathway. It's a trade-off.

Another aspect in these iron cores is eddy currents. These are kind
of like "electron dogs chasing their tails." Any current flow through
the coil induces a magnetic field. But then this magnetic field
permeates the area around it (and especially through the iron core
because of the easy pathway there.) But just as electron motion sets
up a magnetic field, it's also true that any magnetic motion also sets
up an electric field. And if there are electrons available in the
conduction band (electrons that belong to atoms but where they are
just barely attached to the atoms, unlike valence electrons which are
firmly held) of atoms where such electric field potentials are set up,
they start moving away from the negative potential end and towards the
more positive potential, if they can. Iron has lots of electrons in
the conduction band, so those electrons want to start moving. If all
there is _is_ more iron, then they can move and they do. With very
low rates of change in the magnetic field, the electric potentials
that are set up are very small and so the electrons do not accelerate
very fast and they also have a lot of time to move, as well. All this
just means that not very much energy is wasted moving them around
(work is force times distance and although they have time to travel
some distance there, the force is very very small and the total work
is tiny.) When the current through the coil oscillates back and forth
fast enough, though, a very strong electric field is also set up and
the electrons accelerate quickly. Of course, the field changes
quickly, too, and reverses their motion soon after. So the electrons
start running around in tiny circles (they'd collide too much if they
went in straight lines back and forth, so to avoid that effect they
quickly arrange themselves in 'traffic' loops.) That is, if there is
a free conduction path for them to do so. If you powder up the iron
enough, into bits that are even smaller than the natural loops these
electrons would form into, and bind them back together with something
that isn't conductive at all, then despite the strong electric field
they cannot really move very far. They still move, but then they run
up against a barrier and sit and wait for the field to change and go
the other way in their tiny little cage. This greatly shortens the
net distance they can travel in and despite the strong force their
travel distance is forced to be smaller than they'd otherwise do. So
the net force times distance shrinks down and the wasted energy in the
core is less.

I suppose an optimal core for eddy currents (higher frequencies in the
magnetic field induce higher electric potential forces) might set an
iron atom forced somehow to be isolated by enough distance that the
electrons wouldn't travel across the gap for any particular electric
potential (this means separating them further and further apart for
higher and higher frequencies.) [Note: This gap might be created by
the use of atoms that won't conduct, though their very presence would
probably mean more distance is required between the iron atoms.]
However, this increasing gap distance would require the magnetic field
to place energy in it to hop across, so the iron atoms would represent
less and less of a free hop as a net percent of the total distance and
eventually you'd be almost as well off with just a vacuum in terms of
total size of your inductor.

Getting back to equation (1) and equation (2):

(1) L = mu_0 * mu_r * N^2 * A_e / l_e
(2) L = mu_0 * N^2 * A_e / l_e

Let's assume that all the energy goes into the vacuum, only. We
measure, at our macro scale with a tape measure, a loop length (l_e)
of 1 and a cross section area (A_e) of 1 and use N=1. But there are
two such inductors. One with a true vacuum only, one with an iron
core of permeability mu_r=5000. If we used equation (2) on our air
core, we get the right figure. But if we used equation (2) on our
iron core, we don't because actually all those iron atoms are
occupying most of the l_e that we had measured. In fact, 4999/5000ths
of it. So the effective l_e that we should have used would have been
1/5000th of what we earlier tried to use and where we got the wrong
resulting value for L. So, to compensate for this, we introduce mu_r
as a compensating factor. Since l_e in the denominator was 5000 times
too large, due to the fact that our measurements included a lot of
iron atoms along with the tiny bits of vacuum, then we need to add a
term in the numerator that is 5000 to compensate for using a number
that was 5000 times too big in the denominator. Doing that 'fixes'
the result. But it remains that it is only the vacuum, not the iron,
where all that energy gets placed.

Does that make sense?

Jon
 
Jamie wrote:
ehsjr wrote:

fungus wrote:

On Jul 17, 6:25 pm, ehsjr <eh...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

They can argue - but they would be wrong. In spades.
To prove that, just take about 8 or 9 feet of the
twisted pair. Don't wrap it into a coil - just
connect it to replace the transformer, and the thing
plays fine.



In that case where is the energy stored...?

I thought the Joule Thief worked by storing energy
somewhere then releasing it when the transistor
switches.

/Still waiting for my magnet wire to arrive - I had to
order some on eBay.


The energy is stored in exactly the same "place" whether using
an air wound or ferrite core transformer: the magnetic field.

When you have a transformer wound on a core of magnetic material
the magnetic field is concentrated in the core. With an air
wound transformer, the magnetic field is not as concentrated,
it occupies a larger volume.

In all cases, the energy is stored in the magnetic field,
regardless of where that field is - in a ferrous core or in air.

Ed

Maybe reluctance is what you're looking for?
What makes you think I'm looking for anything?

Ed
 
fungus wrote:
On Jul 19, 3:40 am, ehsjr <eh...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

In all cases, the energy is stored in the magnetic field,
regardless of where that field is - in a ferrous core or in air.



So there's some energy stored in the air around the wire?
No. The energy is stored in the magnetic field around
the wire.

Air has nothing to do with it - the only reason we've
used the word air is to differentiate between transformers
that are made by wrapping wire around some kind of magnetic
material like iron versus those that are not. The latter
are commonly called "air core" or "air wound". And sometimes,
when you're trying to wind them and the wire won't cooperate,
they're called things not suitable for public consumption. :)

Ed






That's too weird for my tiny brain.
 
Jon Kirwan wrote:

Or, if you have 5 inches of the material, then
the iron atoms in it provide (5/5000) or 1/1000th of an inch of vacuum
that the magnetic field must cross over by force, with 4+999/1000ths
inches of free hops across iron atoms.
I suppose that's a fairly accurate picture in the
case of something like ferrite or powdered iron,
where you have grains of ferromagnetic material
separated by something else.

However, I'd hesitate to believe in it too literally
as a description of what's physically going on inside
solid iron. On the atomic scale, the distinction between
"vacuum" and "non-vacuum" is rather unclear. If you
consider mass distribution within the atom, then the
iron is almost *all* vacuum, even when the atoms are
right next to each other.

Another way to look at it is that the magnetic field
represents a certain amount of energy per unit volume,
but the relevant field is the H field, not the B field.
That's because the H field is the only part that's
actually generated by the current in the wire. The
rest of the B field comes "for free" courtesy of the
permanent magnetism of the iron atoms, and as we all
know, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

The ratio between the B and H fields is the relative
permeability of the material, which is just a way of
summarising all the complicated interactions going on
between the H field and the iron atoms resulting in
a certain total field.

--
Greg
 
ehsjr wrote:
The latter
are commonly called "air core" or "air wound".
And if humans had evolved to live in space rather than
an atmosphere, we would probably have called them
"vacuum core", with little observable difference in
their properties.

--
Greg
 
While we're on the subject of transformers, there's
something that's been bothering me about ordinary
(non-flyback) transformers.

Consider an unloaded transformer. We apply an AC
voltage to the primary, and a small magnetising
current flows, just enough to induce an emf that
balances out the primary voltage, and also
induces a voltage in the secondary.

Now attach a substantial load to the secondary.
The secondary voltage causes a current to flow in
the secondary winding. At the same time, a
corresponding current flows in the primary winding.
The extra magnetic fields from these two currents
mostly cancel out (the better the transformer, the
closer they come to doing so exactly), leaving
just the small magnetising flux to continue
producing the secondary voltage.

So the flux in the core is pretty much the same
as it was with no load. But now a substantial
amount of power is being transmitted from the
primary to the secondary.

So there must be *something* different about the
state of either the core or the surrounding space
between the loaded and non-loaded conditions. But
what is it?

--
Greg
 
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:24:55 +1200, greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:

Jon Kirwan wrote:

Or, if you have 5 inches of the material, then
the iron atoms in it provide (5/5000) or 1/1000th of an inch of vacuum
that the magnetic field must cross over by force, with 4+999/1000ths
inches of free hops across iron atoms.

I suppose that's a fairly accurate picture in the
case of something like ferrite or powdered iron,
where you have grains of ferromagnetic material
separated by something else.

However, I'd hesitate to believe in it too literally
as a description of what's physically going on inside
solid iron. On the atomic scale, the distinction between
"vacuum" and "non-vacuum" is rather unclear. If you
consider mass distribution within the atom, then the
iron is almost *all* vacuum, even when the atoms are
right next to each other.
Not at all. I'm familiar with measurements in terms of Barns -- it's
an atomic cross-section figure; an abstraction expressing interaction
likelihoods. I imagine (or choose to imagine here) a similar idea
relative to the passing of a magnetic field loop through space and
atoms. For purposes of the iron atom and magnetic field loops (bubble
surfaces) passing through them there is some 'size' that I like to
consider the permeability figure as an abstraction expressing that.

In any case, it doesn't appear to be inconsistent with the equations.

Another way to look at it is that the magnetic field
represents a certain amount of energy per unit volume,
but the relevant field is the H field, not the B field.
That's because the H field is the only part that's
actually generated by the current in the wire. The
rest of the B field comes "for free" courtesy of the
permanent magnetism of the iron atoms, and as we all
know, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

The ratio between the B and H fields is the relative
permeability of the material, which is just a way of
summarising all the complicated interactions going on
between the H field and the iron atoms resulting in
a certain total field.
This doesn't refute what I wrote, though.

I am only just studying the material. As I wrote earlier, all this
began for me only a handful of weeks ago, now. So yes, I may yet find
a reason to modify the mental model. But so far, it helps me better
than other abstractions do.

Jon
 
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:50:13 +1200, greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:

While we're on the subject of transformers, there's
something that's been bothering me about ordinary
(non-flyback) transformers.

Consider an unloaded transformer. We apply an AC
voltage to the primary, and a small magnetising
current flows, just enough to induce an emf that
balances out the primary voltage, and also
induces a voltage in the secondary.

Now attach a substantial load to the secondary.
The secondary voltage causes a current to flow in
the secondary winding. At the same time, a
corresponding current flows in the primary winding.
The extra magnetic fields from these two currents
mostly cancel out (the better the transformer, the
closer they come to doing so exactly), leaving
just the small magnetising flux to continue
producing the secondary voltage.

So the flux in the core is pretty much the same
as it was with no load. But now a substantial
amount of power is being transmitted from the
primary to the secondary.

So there must be *something* different about the
state of either the core or the surrounding space
between the loaded and non-loaded conditions. But
what is it?
This appears to cover it nicely for me:
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/components/transformers.html

Jon
 
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:40:39 -0700, Jon Kirwan
<jonk@infinitefactors.org> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:24:55 +1200, greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz
wrote:

Jon Kirwan wrote:

Or, if you have 5 inches of the material, then
the iron atoms in it provide (5/5000) or 1/1000th of an inch of vacuum
that the magnetic field must cross over by force, with 4+999/1000ths
inches of free hops across iron atoms.

I suppose that's a fairly accurate picture in the
case of something like ferrite or powdered iron,
where you have grains of ferromagnetic material
separated by something else.

However, I'd hesitate to believe in it too literally
as a description of what's physically going on inside
solid iron. On the atomic scale, the distinction between
"vacuum" and "non-vacuum" is rather unclear. If you
consider mass distribution within the atom, then the
iron is almost *all* vacuum, even when the atoms are
right next to each other.

Not at all. I'm familiar with measurements in terms of Barns -- it's
an atomic cross-section figure; an abstraction expressing interaction
likelihoods. I imagine (or choose to imagine here) a similar idea
relative to the passing of a magnetic field loop through space and
atoms. For purposes of the iron atom and magnetic field loops (bubble
surfaces) passing through them there is some 'size' that I like to
consider the permeability figure as an abstraction expressing that.
snip
I should have added that here I imagine that the mu_r permeability
factor merely represents a measured parameter, very much like a cross
section in Barns. The cross-section figure isn't fixed for a given
atom or particle. It varies quite widely over various energies, too.
Although it isn't how things actually work at the quantum level of
detail, it remains a very useful concept for practical work. I'm
suggesting a similar analog with permeability.

For example, natural Uranium is 0.7% U235 with the rest being U238.
The cross section of U235 for thermal energy neutrons is 580 Barns.
The cross section of U238 for the same neutrons is effectively 0. So
the fission cross section of natural uranium is calculated to be:

0.007 * 580 + 0.993 * 0, which is 4.06

Now this doesn't mean, in any way, that the atomic diameters (as
measured by different means than slow neutrons) will be the same. It
just means this is a useful fiction that allows one to imagine well
and also calculate effective values.

I like to imagine permeability in a similar light. The 'cross
section' or 'size' from the point of view of the penetrating magnetic
field does not in any way have to be related to the size of the atom
as measured by other means. Does that make sense?

Jon
 
In article <7cj0dnF28c139U1@mid.individual.net>, greg wrote:
While we're on the subject of transformers, there's
something that's been bothering me about ordinary
(non-flyback) transformers.

Consider an unloaded transformer. We apply an AC
voltage to the primary, and a small magnetising
current flows, just enough to induce an emf that
balances out the primary voltage, and also
induces a voltage in the secondary.

Now attach a substantial load to the secondary.
The secondary voltage causes a current to flow in
the secondary winding. At the same time, a
corresponding current flows in the primary winding.
The extra magnetic fields from these two currents
mostly cancel out (the better the transformer, the
closer they come to doing so exactly), leaving
just the small magnetising flux to continue
producing the secondary voltage.

So the flux in the core is pretty much the same
as it was with no load. But now a substantial
amount of power is being transmitted from the
primary to the secondary.

So there must be *something* different about the
state of either the core or the surrounding space
between the loaded and non-loaded conditions. But
what is it?
The secondary voltage is a little less per turn than
the EMF, and the primary voltage is a little more per
turn than the EMF. The difference overcomes wire
resistance (and any leakage inductance's impedance)
to the extent that results in the amount of current
in question flowing through the turns of wire.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
 
Jon Kirwan wrote:

I like to imagine permeability in a similar light. The 'cross
section' or 'size' from the point of view of the penetrating magnetic
field does not in any way have to be related to the size of the atom
as measured by other means. Does that make sense?
Yes, that makes sense.

--
Greg
 

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top