Driver to drive?

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 11:18:23 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
<e1e8c673-e5cf-4c49-a333-689164319e27@googlegroups.com>:

On Sunday, January 4, 2015 6:35:12 PM UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 08:54:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
716acfee-62e1-44a8-8e15-de9f40e4348e@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 12:01:22 PM UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 03:35:27 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
9e55e606-0e6c-4885-b13d-0d9147c4e282@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:56:44 AM UTC, Robert Baer wrote:
cjensen@netplus.com wrote:

Can anyone please have a look at this circuit and tell me what it is
doing, or supposed to do?

Better yet if you can decipher the parts in Russian.

https://app.box.com/s/hin6mhzpzl147473r1td

It is supposed to be some kind of "secret" device from the 1950's.

Maybe some kind of radio tracking gadget. Would be interesting to
calculate the frequency used.

Claus Jensen
Do not know Russian at all,but here is my take:
At the top, 220V 50Hz.
R1: 1-2 ohms, R2: 5K appx at 2Watts.
C1: 0.25-0.50uF metal film 400V
C2: 2000-6000pF NPO
C3: 200-500pF NPO
D1,D2: unknown
M: ?frequency meter? 80?? at 220? (or part number 80C-220
Tp: tuned transformer secondary
The rest is unknown.
Wild guess is the diodes are to generate harmonics, and one tunes the
transformer secondary; purpose is a cheap high power jamming xmitter.

I dont see the point of the diodes at all, given the characteristics of the glowstarter

The non-linearity of diodes is often used to generate higher harmonics,

surely they'd have a tiny effect compared to the glowstarter

I think the glowstarter ? is merely a switch.

its a neon, switch and small capacitor in parallel.
Most liekly the circuit eats much less than 20w, thus the starter will act as ne & c in paarallel, the switch staying open

It probably arcs a bit and creates some harmonics,
but not like a true spark gap in a horn.

The ne will switch on at 90v and off each half cycle

To activate that tuned circuit you need spectral components IN its frequency range.

all you need is a squarish edge.

Not exactly.
A square wave has mainly odd harmonics
For 50 Hz switching the more harmonics fit in the bandwidth,
the more noise in that band.
Adding diodes creates more 50 Hz harmonics.

Just connecting a voltage and then disconnecting and letting the the LC run a damped oscillation
is just a dying tone at one frequency really.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

Hi Don,

On 04.1.2015 Đł. 21:05, Don Y wrote:

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/4/2015 10:15 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

I was about to post something of that sort but you had already
done it .

Typically I do not post at all to places where someone is allowed
to delete/move/edit my posts in the way they can do at fora etc.
I have done it - and once I actively participated for a few years
in a forum (until they tampered with one of my posts)- but I avoid
doing it. Generally if I allow someone to mess with my output I'd
rather not do it for free, if that.

But that's not a *SUPPORT* forum.

No, of course it is not.

I.e., do *you* sponsor/endorse any "venues" (mailing lists, newsgroups,
portals, etc.) for your customers to discuss problems/features with
your products? If *not*, is this because there is no demand for it
(i.e., perhaps customers don't want to disclose publicly to others how
they are using your kit -- competition; or, perhaps, their needs are met
with one-on-one email/phone exchanges?)

Said another way, what sorts of "support venues" would you consider
appropriate for *your* products -- and *why* (esp why *not*!).

Our customers are not that many, I wish they were in the thousands so
I had to organize something like that. Then our devices are typically
used by end users, not developers - where the user manual tends to
do a good enough job. For the few cases when people have some issue
usually it can be resolved one on one over the net, being able to
see the *same* screen at both sides (the netMCA working over RFB/VNC)
makes things quite easy.

I did actually make a "TGI official twitter account" which is active
but remains unused. From time to time twitter email me with what
I might find interesting . I have a new tiny auxilary HV source
to announce, may be I'll use it for that - once its webpage is ready.

If I have to do a serious developer support group it would be
via a mailing list. Just let the people who actually have something
to do with it join, then leave the thing alone. Archive the messages
in a way convenient enough to access - what more does one need.
By controlling the population on the list one can afford to allow all
sorts of attachments etc. etc.

What facebook and twitter got right is exactly the feeling of not
being censored too much for the users I suppose, hence the success.
Not getting me on board though - I barely use my accounts.
I do use flickr though, hunting with the camera being my main
recreational activity....

AFAICT, social media "venues" are advertising and griping opportunities.
I'd not place much stock in a "recommendation" (nor a *warning*) posted
on the like: "Who is this guy and why should I take *his* comments
as Truth?" (i.e., he may be an idiot and hence complaining about his own
ineptitude with the product; or, he may be a shill effectively pushing
a product for some other reason!)

Well that's what they are generally used for but isn't that with
all mass media. Nothing should stop you from using a facebook or twitter
profile as a mailing list - if you have to not use a real mailing list,
that is.

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

 

[Les Cargill]

Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 04.1.2015 Đł. 00:26, Les Cargill wrote:
Don Y wrote:
On 1/3/2015 12:27 PM, Lanarcam wrote:

A few thoughts:

Usenet gives more freedom and with that come advantages
and disadvantages. There is a need for self-discipline,
for respect of others based on their merits, for the
search of the truth by debate and not that of victory
by all means.

Yes. So, folks intent on the venue to exchange information
are left with a crappier S/N.

Usenet was born in another time when only a limited
number of people could participate. There was selection
based on education. All that has changed now, the Internet
is everywhere for everybody. We could say that it has
moved from the universities to the street.

Corporate forums are a response, moderation prevents
chaos but your freedom is restricted. You become
dependant on an organisation that you don't control,
you lose your independance. You lose for instance the
right to criticize that organisation.

Yes, as well. The moderation tends to get a bit more heavy-handed;
BOfH-ish.

OTOH, you can get "moderation" without corporate sponsorship.
But, the big (potential) win of corporate involvement is the
presence of "experts", hopefully (unless the firm assigns the
newbies to the task of "support")

I see support "venues" (trying to avoid conflicting with "forum")
as having several different characteristics that drive their
overall utility. In no particular order (some of these rely
on others -- but, IMO, merit being addressed explicitly):

- Technology
How is the venue implemented (mailing lists, web pages, SMS services,
etc.)?
This has direct impact on many of the other issues (that follow)

NNTP is vastly superior to the rest for this.

- Accessibility
How readily can the content can be accessed (devices, media, etc.)?
And, how well can it be *searched* for applicable content?

So use NNTP over port 80.

- Push vs Pull
Does the content come to you or do you go to it? Mailing lists
being an
example of the former; USENET the latter.

Pull is good.

- Privacy
How much privacy does the venue present its participants? Do you
have
any idea/control as to who is "seeing" your posted content? Can you
limit your exposure?

Ha! Privacy is an absolute illusion.

- "Richness" of content
What sorts of media are supported? E.g., USENET is effectively text
only
while most "portal forums" support at least limited types of
multimedia.

Very bad. Text is good. Multimedia is a threat vector medium at the very
least.

NNTP coupled with webpages should be enough.

- Focus
Is there an "effective" charter governing the venue's usage? Or,
does
the content (topic and quality) wander aimlessly?

Doesn't matter. Focus is also overrated.

- Control
How is access controlled? Content? Is any form of moderation in
force
and, if so, how (specific moderators, distributed moderation, etc.)?

There should be total anarchy. Control is an illusion ( unless
all the poles are on the unit circle ).

- Exploitability
How susceptible is the venue to abuse (spam, etc.)? How vulnerable
are the
participants to that (unwanted) abuse?

Who cares? Become adept at filtering.

- Cost
Is there a cost associated with posting/reading content? To
maintaining
the service?

Pay for your NNTP link, then stop worrying. I feel for people trying to
monetize fora, but not too much.

- "Value"
(Bad choice of terms) Are the right people drawn to the venue to
address
the subject matter covered in the charter? (note that this
applies to
encouraging the participation of "experts" as well as NOT
discouraging the
participation of neophytes)


The best thing a neophyte can do is learn to ask good questions.

I can go on, but I think this gives an indication of how multifaceted
the
decision is.

Gated communities are no way to live.


I was about to post something of that sort but you had already
done it .

Typically I do not post at all to places where someone is allowed
to delete/move/edit my posts in the way they can do at fora etc.
I have done it - and once I actively participated for a few years
in a forum (until they tampered with one of my posts)- but I avoid
doing it. Generally if I allow someone to mess with my output I'd
rather not do it for free, if that.

What facebook and twitter got right is exactly the feeling of not
being censored too much for the users I suppose, hence the success.

I have no idea. It's all content-free personal daily affirmation stuff,
so far as I can tell.

Facebook was initially designed as an assortative mating site for
Harvard kids.

> Not getting me on board though - I barely use my accounts.

I have kids on there and there are a few people who used to be on Usenet
on there. That last part is fading.

Facebook might have replaced Usenet because of corporate traffic
filtering and port blocking. I dunno. Seems ridiculous that something
as bandwidth-inefficient as Facebook would be tolerable. I don't surf
at work so I don't know.

But in general, people have little or no use for actual
information.

I do use flickr though, hunting with the camera being my main
recreational activity....

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

--
Les Cargill

 

[Don Y]

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/4/2015 12:55 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

I was about to post something of that sort but you had already
done it .

Typically I do not post at all to places where someone is allowed
to delete/move/edit my posts in the way they can do at fora etc.
I have done it - and once I actively participated for a few years
in a forum (until they tampered with one of my posts)- but I avoid
doing it. Generally if I allow someone to mess with my output I'd
rather not do it for free, if that.

But that's not a *SUPPORT* forum.

No, of course it is not.

No more than the local bar where the geeks (or bikers) hang out would
be considered a support forum (for whatever they opt to discuss, there)

I.e., do *you* sponsor/endorse any "venues" (mailing lists, newsgroups,
portals, etc.) for your customers to discuss problems/features with
your products? If *not*, is this because there is no demand for it
(i.e., perhaps customers don't want to disclose publicly to others how
they are using your kit -- competition; or, perhaps, their needs are met
with one-on-one email/phone exchanges?)

Said another way, what sorts of "support venues" would you consider
appropriate for *your* products -- and *why* (esp why *not*!).

Our customers are not that many, I wish they were in the thousands so
I had to organize something like that. Then our devices are typically
used by end users, not developers - where the user manual tends to
do a good enough job. For the few cases when people have some issue
usually it can be resolved one on one over the net, being able to
see the *same* screen at both sides (the netMCA working over RFB/VNC)
makes things quite easy.

Understood. I was *going* to conclude that the "quality" of user probably
plays a role in the extent to which "support" is required (wrt the level
of familiarity with the topics -- newbies can get by with folks who know
where the POWER switch is located! :-/ ).

Along that line, I was thinking that more sophisticated users would tend to
need *less* support. But, on second thought, this may not be true. They
may need *different* (types of) support and their "problems/issues" may be
considerably more challenging -- e.g., asking the Instrument to do something
that it *could*, perhaps, do... but may not have originally been INTENDED
in the Instrument's design! In that case, someone with first-hand experience
doing same *or* intimate knowledge of the Instrument would be needed to
advise.

I did actually make a "TGI official twitter account" which is active
but remains unused. From time to time twitter email me with what
I might find interesting . I have a new tiny auxilary HV source
to announce, may be I'll use it for that - once its webpage is ready.

And that's along the lines of my "advertising" comment.

You could *conceivably* use it to announce an upgrade (software).
Or, alert vigilant users to a nasty bug that they might want to
catch before it screws them over. Folks who aren't actively tracking
your "posts" (tweets) have self-selected themselves OUT of that pool.

If I have to do a serious developer support group it would be
via a mailing list. Just let the people who actually have something
to do with it join, then leave the thing alone. Archive the messages
in a way convenient enough to access - what more does one need.
By controlling the population on the list one can afford to allow all
sorts of attachments etc. etc.

Exactly. That was my original thinking.

But, I've received some feedback suggesting some folks are grumbling
about the format/medium. Turns out, they check their email on their
*phones* and it's really not convenient for viewing certain types of
"non text".

So, eliminate those media types? <shrug> and tell the users to use a
real mail client? Extract the attachments and post them on a web site
(but, then someone has to own/maintain that site!) using just URL's
in the mail messages (I think this is clumsy for folks who are actually
interested in the content as it adds another step to the UX).

The big advantage of a mailing list is that you can "run" it (as in
"implement it") damn near anywhere! Even *on* a phone, if you want.
Web portals require a fixed server, ownership, maintenance, etc.
That suggests costs to operate that would encourage sponsorship
(censorship?) and advertisement... :<

Back to my "year end" upgrades/discards. Still have another couple of
carloads of stuff to get out of here... cripes, I *know* we don't have
a basement (nor an attic!), yet the stuff just seems to be without end!!

Keep warm. We harvested the Navel oranges a few days ago (weather turned
cold enough to put the fruit at jeopardy). Thankfully (?) a small crop
(in terms of NUMBERS). But, they're all *huge* -- at least a pound (500g)
each! So, they effectively take up a lot of space regardless...

--don

 

[Les Cargill]

Grant wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2015 14:08:45 -0600, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> wrote:

Don Y wrote:
Hi,

With the obsolescence of USENET in favor of more "portal-based" forums,
what are the relative advantages/disadvantages of corporate-sponsored
(and hosted?) forums vs. more "independent" approaches? I've seen
good (and bad) examples of each and can only conclude that the "players"
are the deciding factor (?)


The good thing about fora is that there are so many of them. This
is also the bad thing about them. I mainly use fora through
Google searches; even then, it's hit or miss.

Usenet is a vast improvement over everything that tried to replace it.

So are unix-like operation systems.

Sadly, yes. Plan 9 and BeOS are out there, but widely unused.

Some places like here, I enjoy lurking, but I use the killfile not
so much for people, but for topics that do not interest me.

I've had Usenet access since the Fidonet daze ;^) '90s dialup.

Grant.

--
Les Cargill

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 05 Jan 2015 08:10:19 -0800) it happened
cjensen@netplus.com wrote in <hcdlaapa4ijvji84eiolrjb8ugnhvnrc1v@4ax.com>:

Having read the responses so far, it seems like this little circuit
has been pretty well thought out and rationalized for a deliberate
purpose.

Not really the mark of a "bogus" device.

Is anyone who understands it better than I do game to put one together
and see what it actually does?

Maybe some spice Xpert here could have a go...


>Remember, the Cold War is coming back.

Probably global nuculear [w]arming

 

[rickman]

On 1/4/2015 2:20 PM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:

On Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:54:01 PM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2015 3:22 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On 1/3/2015 1:45 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:38:37 AM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 11/19/2014 7:19 PM, Joerg wrote:

It's always good to learn about those because one can do weird tricks
with them. They are also useful as gain control elements. I just hope
they won't disappear. I think TV will eventually vanish and go Internet
and then they'd likely be obsoleted because that is the only mass market
for them that I know of.

I can't see TVs ever loosing a tuner. That would only happen when TV
station broadcasts go away and I don't think that is at all on the
horizon.

As internet speeds creep up, by the time we all have a bundle of fibres the bandwidth supplied by air broadcast will become pointless and almost worthless. The end looks inevitable. A single fibre bundle can wipe out uhf tv, all current radio bands and phone lines, so it will for cost reasons.

Except that they will never bring fiber to every household. There are
lots of places that don't even have cable which is why there is satellite..

The whole developed world has mains electicity supplied, a huge undertaking to achieve. Why? Its worth it. Living in 50 or 100yrs time without fast internet will be unthinkable, just as we're no longer prepared to live with a 32v generator in the basement. It'll happen. In this country the rare houses with no mains supply are worth 10s of thoussands less because of it. That price brings a lot of willingness, and so it will with internet eventually.

You are confusing having Fiber with having Internet. The two are not
the same thing.

of course im not. how else do you propose people get huge banwidth in future?

I'm not proposing anything. I'm saying your analogy of not having fiber
in every house hold is like not having electricity is bogus because
people can live rich, full lives using other modes of Internet access
while other sources of electricity fall far short of the conventional
power distribution system.

There are many houses which don't have decent Internet access where I
live because the economics don't justify the investment by the Internet
companies. Being a monopoly the public utilities are required to
provide service to nearly everyone.

--

Rick

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2015-01-03, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

Hi,

With the obsolescence of USENET in favor of more "portal-based" forums,
what are the relative advantages/disadvantages of corporate-sponsored
(and hosted?) forums vs. more "independent" approaches? I've seen
good (and bad) examples of each and can only conclude that the "players"
are the deciding factor (?)

I've been playing on stack exchange which is user modrated,
and strictly problem-solution focussed, so there's little scope
for bragging, discussing politics, cycling, cooking, or
conspiracy (unless on-topic). they have an electronics forum
which seems to have be mostly at the sci.electronics.basics
level, although there are some interesting problems.

--
umop apisdn

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 04.1.2015 Đł. 23:03, Don Y wrote:

Hi Dimiter,

On 1/4/2015 12:55 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

I was about to post something of that sort but you had already
done it .

Typically I do not post at all to places where someone is allowed
to delete/move/edit my posts in the way they can do at fora etc.
I have done it - and once I actively participated for a few years
in a forum (until they tampered with one of my posts)- but I avoid
doing it. Generally if I allow someone to mess with my output I'd
rather not do it for free, if that.

But that's not a *SUPPORT* forum.

No, of course it is not.

No more than the local bar where the geeks (or bikers) hang out would
be considered a support forum (for whatever they opt to discuss, there)

Uhm, with some luck you might get there what you have been chasing
in vain for years... .

I.e., do *you* sponsor/endorse any "venues" (mailing lists, newsgroups,
portals, etc.) for your customers to discuss problems/features with
your products? If *not*, is this because there is no demand for it
(i.e., perhaps customers don't want to disclose publicly to others how
they are using your kit -- competition; or, perhaps, their needs are met
with one-on-one email/phone exchanges?)

Said another way, what sorts of "support venues" would you consider
appropriate for *your* products -- and *why* (esp why *not*!).

Our customers are not that many, I wish they were in the thousands so
I had to organize something like that. Then our devices are typically
used by end users, not developers - where the user manual tends to
do a good enough job. For the few cases when people have some issue
usually it can be resolved one on one over the net, being able to
see the *same* screen at both sides (the netMCA working over RFB/VNC)
makes things quite easy.

Understood. I was *going* to conclude that the "quality" of user probably
plays a role in the extent to which "support" is required (wrt the level
of familiarity with the topics -- newbies can get by with folks who know
where the POWER switch is located! :-/ ).

The quality of our users is typically fairly high, those are people
who have been dealing with systems a lot less friendly than ours.
Some (many?) of them have no basic networking knowledge so the
main obstacle we had initially was until their unit would come
online..... Since we started to supply a router with it,
prepared such they could have a "quick start" - just plug things
and have them running (e.g. the router would assign their device
a known IP address, would forward ports it has to forward so
whatever server part on the device is running will be accessible
from the outside etc.) this problem largely disappeared.

....
If I have to do a serious developer support group it would be
via a mailing list. Just let the people who actually have something
to do with it join, then leave the thing alone. Archive the messages
in a way convenient enough to access - what more does one need.
By controlling the population on the list one can afford to allow all
sorts of attachments etc. etc.

Exactly. That was my original thinking.

But, I've received some feedback suggesting some folks are grumbling
about the format/medium. Turns out, they check their email on their
*phones* and it's really not convenient for viewing certain types of
"non text".

Oh come on, this is a non-issue. If the browser on a phone cannot deal
with what is going to be posted on the list then what will they use.
Have them use a webmail client if whatever else is not working and be
done with it, nobody needs all sorts of formats known to humanity
in one place to provide technical support. GIF, JPEG, PDF, text,
html - they will be able to view this right away on practically
everything, just the amount of swearing it will take will vary
between platforms (sometimes dramatically, you should see me using
the cheap android tablet I have for bed use....).
The rest can go as application/octet-stream, would go this way
whatever format you choose anyway.

...
Keep warm. We harvested the Navel oranges a few days ago (weather turned
cold enough to put the fruit at jeopardy). Thankfully (?) a small crop
(in terms of NUMBERS). But, they're all *huge* -- at least a pound (500g)
each! So, they effectively take up a lot of space regardless...

Whoa, half a ton oranges (well, kilogram but sounds pretty huge
to me ).
We had just a few apples this year - the apple trees (here at least)
give plenty of apples every other year only. So we left the few apples
untouched, some are still on the tree - and they did find some good use:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/15978604306/

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

--don

 

[Robert Baer]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2015 18:16:50 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Attached are screenshots of attempt to login to a webmail spam check
site that i use.
As you can see, there is a complaint about the password (altho, the
problem might really be the username).
I know i have the user name and password correct,because the EXACT
same character construction is used and WORKS wen i do this in Win2K.
Also, that e-mail that is allued to in LLC1.jpg seems to not be sent.

What gives?

They're obviously targeting Robert Baer, paranoid though you may be,
doesn't mean they're not out to get you>:-}

...Jim Thompson
Did you dig that out of SkyBuck's frazzle box?

 

Having read the responses so far, it seems like this little circuit
has been pretty well thought out and rationalized for a deliberate
purpose.

Not really the mark of a "bogus" device.

Is anyone who understands it better than I do game to put one together
and see what it actually does?

Remember, the Cold War is coming back.

Klaus Jensen

 

[Robert Baer]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2015 18:16:50 -0800, the renowned Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Attached are screenshots of attempt to login to a webmail spam check
site that i use.
As you can see, there is a complaint about the password (altho, the
problem might really be the username).
I know i have the user name and password correct,because the EXACT
same character construction is used and WORKS wen i do this in Win2K.
^^^^^
Could it be a problem with spelling or capitalization?

Try the same user name in all caps or all lower case, just in 'case'
some translation is taking place.

Also, that e-mail that is allued to in LLC1.jpg seems to not be sent.

What gives?

Probably being intercepted by a 'woman in the middle' attack.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Not so..i have a text script; exact match.

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <56fgaatct5r7vk9q45i6snhf06j9t2aujq@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Fri, 2 Jan 2015 19:51:31 GMT, mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

[snip]


As for your newsgroup blocking me, maybe I should stop labeling "OT"

Don't crosspost to the alt.binaries.* newsgroups.


Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Why not?

Because a significant number of news system administrators consider
it abuse.

alt.binaries.* are considered a special category under various
administration philosophies, and each server in the system enforces its
own set of rules. Some servers set up a list of forbidden cross-postings
for the Newsgroups header, some filter on content, and some have no
rules*. *(A really bad idea given the abuse potential).

Looks like news.individual.de filters all traffic based on the Newsgroups
header (and much more), and google (meow2222's server) won't let followups
include alt.binaries.*. So the only reason Joerg saw this thread was
that meow2222 had to trim the groups his followup went to.

>Many of my friends hang out there, but not elsewhere.

So, they'll never get to news.individual.de. I doubt if the users
there will care. They seem to appreciate a clean text only server.


Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

 

On Monday, January 5, 2015 9:09:32 AM UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 13:09:20 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
a1f1d940-3cae-4096-a1d7-d4983aa72cc8@googlegroups.com>:

https://app.box.com/s/hin6mhzpzl147473r1td

I'm wondering why the circuit's more complex than just:
RC ballast
neon
coil & C

Last night, before falling asleep, I think I figured out the rest of the 'why' of this circuit:

1) the diodes cause harmonics of 50 Hz every zero crossing of the mains, this
is transformed to the RF tuned circuit, and then transmitted via the antenna.
Mainly odd harmonics, but there is a lot of slow rise etc, so probably even harmonics too.
This gives an annoying AM (sideband every 50 Hz) rattle.

2) the FL starter tube (or whatever you call) it interrupts this at irregular intervals,
mostly in the second or part thereof range.

The purpose of (2) is to f*ck up the AM receiver AGC.

Normally when you only jam with that AM rattle, you could get used to it,
or even filter it out afterwards, I used an elliptical filter to remove 60 Hz with harmonics from a long audio recording from some conference.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#humfilter

But now when the jam signal is cut, the receiver AGC will turn the gain up so the remote political brain wash is made audible.
Just after the gain reaches near maximum,,, the jammer comes in with full strength (locally).
BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBRBBrBrrbrbrbrbrsilence(AGC gain now low)this is the voice of A(hardly audible if at all) BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBrBrbrbrbrbrb
etc etc etc.
Very hard to listen to that without ear damage,,,
Manual AGC does not help a lot either, you still need the gain to hear far away stations, and need fading compensation on short wave.

So its simple, its effective.

The neon switches with 90v steps 4 times a cycle. The diodes switch with whatever their Vdrop is 4 times a cycle.
Presumably here's how it works:
When the neon's conducting, C to the mains is C1 = 0.25-0.5uF
When the neon's oc, C to the mains is C3 = 200-500pF
So probably the 2 switching devices cause different resonant frequencies in the LC tank.


NT

 

On Sunday, January 4, 2015 10:30:21 PM UTC, rickman wrote:

On 1/4/2015 2:20 PM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:54:01 PM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2015 3:22 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On 1/3/2015 1:45 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:38:37 AM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 11/19/2014 7:19 PM, Joerg wrote:

It's always good to learn about those because one can do weird tricks
with them. They are also useful as gain control elements. I just hope
they won't disappear. I think TV will eventually vanish and go Internet
and then they'd likely be obsoleted because that is the only mass market
for them that I know of.

I can't see TVs ever loosing a tuner. That would only happen when TV
station broadcasts go away and I don't think that is at all on the
horizon.

As internet speeds creep up, by the time we all have a bundle of fibres the bandwidth supplied by air broadcast will become pointless and almost worthless. The end looks inevitable. A single fibre bundle can wipe out uhf tv, all current radio bands and phone lines, so it will for cost reasons.

Except that they will never bring fiber to every household. There are
lots of places that don't even have cable which is why there is satellite..

The whole developed world has mains electicity supplied, a huge undertaking to achieve. Why? Its worth it. Living in 50 or 100yrs time without fast internet will be unthinkable, just as we're no longer prepared to live with a 32v generator in the basement. It'll happen. In this country the rare houses with no mains supply are worth 10s of thoussands less because of it. That price brings a lot of willingness, and so it will with internet eventually.

You are confusing having Fiber with having Internet. The two are not
the same thing.

of course im not. how else do you propose people get huge banwidth in future?

I'm not proposing anything. I'm saying your analogy of not having fiber
in every house hold is like not having electricity is bogus because
people can live rich, full lives using other modes of Internet access
while other sources of electricity fall far short of the conventional
power distribution system.

There are many houses which don't have decent Internet access where I
live because the economics don't justify the investment by the Internet
companies. Being a monopoly the public utilities are required to
provide service to nearly everyone.

What you're saying applies today, upto a point. What I'm saying applies in 50 or 100 years. As time goes on ever more will be done using data transfer, and the deficit in not having fast net will get ever bigger until it becomes simply unacceptable. Its the exact same pattern that happened with electricity distribution.


NT

 

On Monday, January 5, 2015 10:18:45 AM UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 5 Jan 2015 01:54:00 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
910564b0-6207-495c-b74a-9d4448ae1d91@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, January 5, 2015 9:09:32 AM UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 13:09:20 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
a1f1d940-3cae-4096-a1d7-d4983aa72cc8@googlegroups.com>:

https://app.box.com/s/hin6mhzpzl147473r1td

I'm wondering why the circuit's more complex than just:
RC ballast
neon
coil & C

Last night, before falling asleep, I think I figured out the rest of the 'why' of this circuit:

1) the diodes cause harmonics of 50 Hz every zero crossing of the mains, this
is transformed to the RF tuned circuit, and then transmitted via the antenna.
Mainly odd harmonics, but there is a lot of slow rise etc, so probably even harmonics too.
This gives an annoying AM (sideband every 50 Hz) rattle.

2) the FL starter tube (or whatever you call) it interrupts this at irregular intervals,
mostly in the second or part thereof range.

The purpose of (2) is to f*ck up the AM receiver AGC.

Normally when you only jam with that AM rattle, you could get used to it,
or even filter it out afterwards, I used an elliptical filter to remove 60 Hz with harmonics from a long audio recording from
some conference.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#humfilter

But now when the jam signal is cut, the receiver AGC will turn the gain up so the remote political brain wash is made
audible.
Just after the gain reaches near maximum,,, the jammer comes in with full strength (locally).
BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBRBBrBrrbrbrbrbrsilence(AGC gain now low)this is the voice of A(hardly audible if at all)
BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBrBrbrbrbrbrb
etc etc etc.
Very hard to listen to that without ear damage,,,
Manual AGC does not help a lot either, you still need the gain to hear far away stations, and need fading compensation on
short wave.

So its simple, its effective.

The neon switches with 90v steps 4 times a cycle. The diodes switch with whatever their Vdrop is 4 times a cycle.
Presumably here's how it works:
When the neon's conducting, C to the mains is C1 = 0.25-0.5uF
When the neon's oc, C to the mains is C3 = 200-500pF
So probably the 2 switching devices cause different resonant frequencies in the LC tank.

Somebody needs to build this,

Unless there are spice models for neons & copper oxide diodes

I was reading just now Ukrain nazis damaged a TV station in their own territory they considered pro Russian.
So much for the free west.
If I was Putin (I'm not) I would have said: Now f*ck off or I flatten Kiev.
That is what Kiev is doing to their own people in the east.
War would have been over with those nazi pussies long time ago.
Really the ONLY way to stop violence is give them an overdose of it themselves.
Never mind what the EU wants, Greece may leave the Euro soon, more will follow.
Drachi will ruin the Euro further (now below 1.2 $) that Italian knows all about hundreds of lires for a pizza.
Greece will devaluate every odd year and twice if it rains.
0bama keeps randomly bombing countries and sells teh fugitives as cheap labor to Germany, EU,
Merkel says 'we need those be nice to them;'.
Roman empire, Caesar, history, repeating.
0bama hypocrite plays poor black slave for his votes, makes slaves himself every day.

oh, politics, the art of total bullshit


NT

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 13:09:20 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
<a1f1d940-3cae-4096-a1d7-d4983aa72cc8@googlegroups.com>:

https://app.box.com/s/hin6mhzpzl147473r1td

I'm wondering why the circuit's more complex than just:
RC ballast
neon
coil & C

Last night, before falling asleep, I think I figured out the rest of the 'why' of this circuit:

1) the diodes cause harmonics of 50 Hz every zero crossing of the mains, this
is transformed to the RF tuned circuit, and then transmitted via the antenna.
Mainly odd harmonics, but there is a lot of slow rise etc, so probably even harmonics too.
This gives an annoying AM (sideband every 50 Hz) rattle.

2) the FL starter tube (or whatever you call) it interrupts this at irregular intervals,
mostly in the second or part thereof range.

The purpose of (2) is to f*ck up the AM receiver AGC.

Normally when you only jam with that AM rattle, you could get used to it,
or even filter it out afterwards, I used an elliptical filter to remove 60 Hz with harmonics from a long audio recording from some conference.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#humfilter

But now when the jam signal is cut, the receiver AGC will turn the gain up so the remote political brain wash is made audible.
Just after the gain reaches near maximum,,, the jammer comes in with full strength (locally).
BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBRBBrBrrbrbrbrbrsilence(AGC gain now low)this is the voice of A(hardly audible if at all) BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBrBrbrbrbrbrb
etc etc etc.
Very hard to listen to that without ear damage,,,
Manual AGC does not help a lot either, you still need the gain to hear far away stations, and need fading compensation on short wave.

So its simple, its effective.

 

[George Herold]

On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:20:41 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

Hi George,

Nice and cold, there?? :> (Unfortunately, I can't "gloat" as it's been
a wee bit chilly, here, of late! No idea how the Valencias are faring as
it is way too soon to harvest them)

Grin, Well yesterday morning it was 52 F when the dogs got me up.
I went outside in my "sleep ware" and bare feet to pee with them.
Then today it was 12 F, blowing and snowy. So go figure. (Seize the day)

I guess I misunderstood your question.

I've also thought about having some kind of online support forum for our products.
In the least, I could just make all my various email responses to problems
available online. But A much better forum would be something where users
could help each other. An email list server or such.

It's not something I know much about. Are you setting something up?
What technology are you favoring?

George H.

On 1/4/2015 10:39 AM, George Herold wrote:
Hi Don, I sometimes "hang out" at the electronics stack exchange forum. It
has a lot more low level questions than here... but it lacks all the
political (and other) "noise". The high end is about the same at both
places. (IMO) I've asked question on both sites and gotten useful answers
at both. The one problem with the stack exchange is the format is not
conducive to long discussions, which I find the most enjoyable part of SED.

Again, I don't really consider those "support venues". Rather, a step
above a "chat room" -- a place where people gather to talk about (ideally)
a particular subject matter (which is often very broad/general).

E.g., you wouldn't expect folks who purchase Nest thermostats to come
*here* to discuss the problems/features/operation of their devices
(though there is nothing *preventing* them from doing so, they would
probably prefer to gather with OTHER OWNERS of Nest thermostats in
the hopes of finding folks with more common experiences as theirs).

USENET allows for this -- create a newsgroup, give it a charter, decide
whether it should be moderated (or not), find a moderator, etc. There
are some newsgroups set up for this (see my other recent post for examples;
or, peruse your newsgroup list).

But, USENET is not "private" -- you can't discuss problems with your
XYZ Colostomy Bag and expect it to only be seen by other (sympathetic?)
colostomy patients! You can censor posts *to* it (with a moderator).
There is no (practical) cost to supporting it. It's a "pull" technology.
Whether or not it allows advertisements and other off-topic content would
be subject to the moderator's discretion. It can opt to support binaries
(untyped objects), or not (ick! the idea of media other than text for
a subject like that is... disconcerting!).

Similarly, you (manufacturer) can enroll all of your customers in a
mailing list (anonymized or not) and therefore know that only *they*
are privy to see the comments of other customers, no "spam" opportunities
(assuming the list is actively moderated), etc.

Or, set up a web portal and get the worst of both worlds :-/

Separate from all of this is the extent of corporate involvement: in
terms of funding the venue, participating in it (employees), controlling
it (censorship/policing), etc.

I.e.,, even if the corporation doesn't *endorse* a venue (and may, in fact,
resent its creation), there is nothing to stop someone from independently
creating such a venue without the consent/sponsorship/control/participation
of the corporation whose product is being "supported"!

E.g., alt.microsoft.*.sucks

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 5 Jan 2015 01:54:00 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
<910564b0-6207-495c-b74a-9d4448ae1d91@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, January 5, 2015 9:09:32 AM UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jan 2015 13:09:20 -0800 (PST)) it happened
meow2222@care2.com wrote in
a1f1d940-3cae-4096-a1d7-d4983aa72cc8@googlegroups.com>:

https://app.box.com/s/hin6mhzpzl147473r1td

I'm wondering why the circuit's more complex than just:
RC ballast
neon
coil & C

Last night, before falling asleep, I think I figured out the rest of the 'why' of this circuit:

1) the diodes cause harmonics of 50 Hz every zero crossing of the mains, this
is transformed to the RF tuned circuit, and then transmitted via the antenna.
Mainly odd harmonics, but there is a lot of slow rise etc, so probably even harmonics too.
This gives an annoying AM (sideband every 50 Hz) rattle.

2) the FL starter tube (or whatever you call) it interrupts this at irregular intervals,
mostly in the second or part thereof range.

The purpose of (2) is to f*ck up the AM receiver AGC.

Normally when you only jam with that AM rattle, you could get used to it,
or even filter it out afterwards, I used an elliptical filter to remove 60 Hz with harmonics from a long audio recording from
some conference.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/download.html#humfilter

But now when the jam signal is cut, the receiver AGC will turn the gain up so the remote political brain wash is made
audible.
Just after the gain reaches near maximum,,, the jammer comes in with full strength (locally).
BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBRBBrBrrbrbrbrbrsilence(AGC gain now low)this is the voice of A(hardly audible if at all)
BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBrBrbrbrbrbrb
etc etc etc.
Very hard to listen to that without ear damage,,,
Manual AGC does not help a lot either, you still need the gain to hear far away stations, and need fading compensation on
short wave.

So its simple, its effective.

The neon switches with 90v steps 4 times a cycle. The diodes switch with whatever their Vdrop is 4 times a cycle.
Presumably here's how it works:
When the neon's conducting, C to the mains is C1 = 0.25-0.5uF
When the neon's oc, C to the mains is C3 = 200-500pF
So probably the 2 switching devices cause different resonant frequencies in the LC tank.

Somebody needs to build this,
I was reading just now Ukrain nazis damaged a TV station in their own territory they considered pro Russian.
So much for the free west.
If I was Putin (I'm not) I would have said: Now f*ck off or I flatten Kiev.
That is what Kiev is doing to their own people in the east.
War would have been over with those nazi pussies long time ago.
Really the ONLY way to stop violence is give them an overdose of it themselves.
Never mind what the EU wants, Greece may leave the Euro soon, more will follow.
Drachi will ruin the Euro further (now below 1.2 $) that Italian knows all about hundreds of lires for a pizza.
Greece will devaluate every odd year and twice if it rains.
0bama keeps randomly bombing countries and sells teh fugitives as cheap labor to Germany, EU,
Merkel says 'we need those be nice to them;'.
Roman empire, Caesar, history, repeating.
0bama hypocrite plays poor black slave for his votes, makes slaves himself every day.

 

On Monday, January 5, 2015 4:11:48 PM UTC, rickman wrote:

On 1/5/2015 4:58 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 10:30:21 PM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2015 2:20 PM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:54:01 PM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2015 3:22 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On 1/3/2015 1:45 AM, meow2222@care2.com wrote:
On Thursday, November 20, 2014 12:38:37 AM UTC, rickman wrote:
On 11/19/2014 7:19 PM, Joerg wrote:

It's always good to learn about those because one can do weird tricks
with them. They are also useful as gain control elements. I just hope
they won't disappear. I think TV will eventually vanish and go Internet
and then they'd likely be obsoleted because that is the only mass market
for them that I know of.

I can't see TVs ever loosing a tuner. That would only happen when TV
station broadcasts go away and I don't think that is at all on the
horizon.

As internet speeds creep up, by the time we all have a bundle of fibres the bandwidth supplied by air broadcast will become pointless and almost worthless. The end looks inevitable. A single fibre bundle can wipe out uhf tv, all current radio bands and phone lines, so it will for cost reasons.

Except that they will never bring fiber to every household. There are
lots of places that don't even have cable which is why there is satellite..

The whole developed world has mains electicity supplied, a huge undertaking to achieve. Why? Its worth it. Living in 50 or 100yrs time without fast internet will be unthinkable, just as we're no longer prepared to live with a 32v generator in the basement. It'll happen. In this country the rare houses with no mains supply are worth 10s of thoussands less because of it. That price brings a lot of willingness, and so it will with internet eventually.

You are confusing having Fiber with having Internet. The two are not
the same thing.

of course im not. how else do you propose people get huge banwidth in future?

I'm not proposing anything. I'm saying your analogy of not having fiber
in every house hold is like not having electricity is bogus because
people can live rich, full lives using other modes of Internet access
while other sources of electricity fall far short of the conventional
power distribution system.

There are many houses which don't have decent Internet access where I
live because the economics don't justify the investment by the Internet
companies. Being a monopoly the public utilities are required to
provide service to nearly everyone.

What you're saying applies today, upto a point. What I'm saying applies in 50 or 100 years. As time goes on ever more will be done using data transfer, and the deficit in not having fast net will get ever bigger until it becomes simply unacceptable. Its the exact same pattern that happened with electricity distribution.

In 50 years we will likely both be dead and there is no point in
speculating what will be important and what won't. It's just too far
removed. You have no way of knowing what the needs will be at that time.

A lot of people have looked at the future of computing. There are things we don't know, and things we can be fairly confident of. And the latter includes a massive increase in the automated use of relatively trivial data to optimise the design and operation of most things in life.

We also know that infrastructure keeps advancing - it inevitably will in any developed country. The lack of nationwide fast broadband in the 1st world is hampering business and thus economic development, and large sums continue to be invested year on year in improving this infrastructure. I dont see that about to stop any decade soon.

You dont need a crystal ball or to know all the details at this point to be pretty confident that internet infrastructure will keep spreading wider, getting faster and gaining more capacity.

I'd venture that the situation with net provision today has a fair bit in common with the electrification situation in the 1930s.


NT