Driver to drive?

Unless the company making the chip can't deliver quantities in time.
Then the firmware solution, the discrete solution, or pretty much any
other solution is a better solution. Because it avoids the single-source
problem.
Click to expand...

You remind me of some old lady that got cheated by some name your ethnic
minority and thus has concluded for the rest of eternity that said
ethnic minority is a bunch of crooks. [Those damn Martians screwed me. I
will never buy from extra-terrestrials again!]

OK, Maxim dissed your dinky company. Get over it. Years ago they screwed
lots of people, but the people responsible for such nonsense are gone.
[Still plenty more people need to be shown the door, but plenty of
wankers retired.] Buy from LTC, TI, whatever.
 
On 8/15/2013 7:18 AM, Uwe Hercksen wrote:
Phil Allison schrieb:

** Why do so many fools suggest bulbs in place of resistors ??

Incandescent bulbs use tungsten wire that has a strong positive tempco
- so much so that the effective resistance value changes over a ratio
of about 12 times from room temp to full brightness.

Hello,

the fools are not aware of the dramatic change of resistance between a
cold and hot bulb...

Bye
Click to expand...
Maybe the fools just understand what they need and how a light bulb might
be useful in that application.

Sometimes, easy and good enough is just good enough. And the fools
understand that.
 
I used a capacitor to slow down one of the paths returning from one nor gate to the input on the other.
Click to expand...

A 1.8UF capacitor on the output of a CMOS gate is not healthy. If will draw a lot of current durring switching

Make the reset circuit on the input side with a POR as suggested

Cheers

Klaus
 
On Friday, August 16, 2013 4:49:29 AM UTC+2, mike wrote:
On 8/15/2013 7:18 AM, Uwe Hercksen wrote:





Phil Allison schrieb:



** Why do so many fools suggest bulbs in place of resistors ??



Incandescent bulbs use tungsten wire that has a strong positive tempco

- so much so that the effective resistance value changes over a ratio

of about 12 times from room temp to full brightness.



Hello,



the fools are not aware of the dramatic change of resistance between a

cold and hot bulb...



Bye



Maybe the fools just understand what they need and how a light bulb might

be useful in that application.



Sometimes, easy and good enough is just good enough. And the fools

understand that.
Click to expand...

When I was I kid, my dad go me introduced (indoctrinated) into electronics. He gave me some switches and 12V bulbs to play with. He then added a large 12V bulb in series with the battery, so a short in the succeeding circuit would be quite indicative. Bulbs can sometimes be put to good use :)

Cheers

Klaus
 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:56:43 -0700 (PDT), eric@bauld.com wrote:

On Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:23:38 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, August 15, 2013 12:46:27 PM UTC-4, er...@bauld.com wrote:





http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8556/jxky.png



That's ridiculous. The gates don't come close to satisfying:

"Intention is that:

1) On power up neither relay is on

2) On momentary reset relay /w green is activated

3) If at any time trip is closed, green side is off, red is on

4) If reset is hit while trip is still open, nothing happens

5) if trip is open then reset will function and be able to trigger green led

6) At no time will both red and green be active

7) On init neither LED circuit is on "



The most basic logic is wrong. Maybe think about a less challenging project.

Perhaps something is lost in translation. As I have it placed out on a bread board and it is functioning as required. The only change I had to make was the capacitor which as far as I could tell set the initial state of the SR Latch to avoid the race condition.
Click to expand...

---
1. There's a conflict between "3" and "4". Shouldn't "4" read:
"If reset is hit while trip is closed, nothing happens."?

2. The capacitor delay implemented like that isn't a good idea.

3. You don't need extra transistors to drive the LEDs.

4. You don't need the pullups and pulldowns on the logic outputs.

5. This'll get you what you want:

Version 4
SHEET 1 1244 980
WIRE 544 32 512 32
WIRE 672 32 624 32
WIRE 864 32 832 32
WIRE 928 32 864 32
WIRE 976 32 928 32
WIRE 672 64 672 32
WIRE 864 64 864 32
WIRE 976 96 976 32
WIRE 928 112 928 32
WIRE -160 128 -336 128
WIRE 352 128 -160 128
WIRE -336 144 -336 128
WIRE 672 160 672 128
WIRE 864 160 864 128
WIRE 864 160 672 160
WIRE 928 160 864 160
WIRE 448 176 416 176
WIRE 352 192 336 192
WIRE 672 192 672 160
WIRE 976 192 976 176
WIRE 336 208 336 192
WIRE 448 208 448 176
WIRE 336 240 448 208
WIRE 448 240 336 208
WIRE -336 256 -336 224
WIRE 336 256 336 240
WIRE 352 256 336 256
WIRE 448 272 448 240
WIRE 448 272 416 272
WIRE 624 272 448 272
WIRE -560 304 -592 304
WIRE -528 304 -560 304
WIRE -432 304 -464 304
WIRE -368 304 -432 304
WIRE -304 304 -368 304
WIRE 672 304 672 288
WIRE 976 304 976 272
WIRE 352 320 -240 320
WIRE -560 352 -560 304
WIRE -432 352 -432 304
WIRE -304 368 -336 368
WIRE -368 416 -368 304
WIRE 128 416 -368 416
WIRE 544 416 512 416
WIRE 672 416 624 416
WIRE 864 416 832 416
WIRE 928 416 864 416
WIRE 976 416 928 416
WIRE 672 448 672 416
WIRE 864 448 864 416
WIRE -560 464 -560 432
WIRE -432 464 -432 432
WIRE 976 480 976 416
WIRE 928 496 928 416
WIRE -160 544 -160 128
WIRE -128 544 -160 544
WIRE 672 544 672 512
WIRE 864 544 864 512
WIRE 864 544 672 544
WIRE 928 544 864 544
WIRE 128 560 128 416
WIRE 160 560 128 560
WIRE 672 576 672 544
WIRE 976 576 976 560
WIRE -32 592 -64 592
WIRE -336 608 -336 368
WIRE -272 608 -336 608
WIRE -240 608 -272 608
WIRE -128 608 -176 608
WIRE -32 608 -32 592
WIRE 0 608 -32 608
WIRE 352 608 224 608
WIRE 160 624 128 624
WIRE 128 656 128 624
WIRE 128 656 64 656
WIRE 448 656 416 656
WIRE 624 656 448 656
WIRE -272 672 -272 608
WIRE -128 672 -272 672
WIRE 0 672 -32 672
WIRE 352 672 336 672
WIRE -32 688 -32 672
WIRE -32 688 -64 688
WIRE 336 688 336 672
WIRE 448 688 448 656
WIRE 672 688 672 672
WIRE 976 688 976 656
WIRE 336 720 448 688
WIRE 448 720 336 688
WIRE -128 736 -160 736
WIRE 336 736 336 720
WIRE 352 736 336 736
WIRE 448 752 448 720
WIRE 448 752 416 752
WIRE -336 800 -336 608
WIRE 352 800 -336 800
WIRE -336 848 -336 800
WIRE -336 960 -336 928
FLAG 672 304 0
FLAG 672 688 0
FLAG -432 464 0
FLAG -336 256 0
FLAG -336 960 0
FLAG 512 32 +12
FLAG 512 416 +12
FLAG -592 304 +12
FLAG 832 32 +12
FLAG 832 416 +12
FLAG -560 464 0
FLAG 976 304 0
FLAG 976 688 0
FLAG -160 736 +12
SYMBOL Digital\\or 384 96 R0
WINDOW 3 -8 36 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A1
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL sw 976 192 M180
WINDOW 0 45 44 Left 2
WINDOW 3 41 70 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName K1
SYMBOL nmos 624 192 R0
SYMATTR InstName M2
SYMATTR Value IRF6617
SYMBOL Digital\\or 384 352 M180
WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL diode 880 128 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL LED 656 64 R0
WINDOW 0 -25 -4 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -101 66 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value NSCW100
SYMBOL Digital\\or -272 272 R0
WINDOW 3 -8 36 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A5
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL cap -464 288 R90
WINDOW 0 -32 31 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 10n
SYMBOL res -448 336 R0
WINDOW 0 -42 42 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -64 72 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1meg
SYMBOL voltage -336 128 R0
WINDOW 0 -106 27 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 12 1 10u 10u .1 1)
SYMBOL sw 976 576 M180
WINDOW 0 45 44 Left 2
WINDOW 3 41 70 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName K2
SYMBOL diode 880 512 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL res 640 16 R90
WINDOW 0 -37 59 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -33 59 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 510
SYMBOL res 640 400 R90
WINDOW 0 -33 60 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -34 62 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 510
SYMBOL nmos 624 576 R0
SYMATTR InstName M1
SYMATTR Value IRF6617
SYMBOL LED 656 448 R0
WINDOW 0 -25 -3 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -101 66 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value NSCW100
SYMBOL voltage -560 336 R0
WINDOW 0 -70 55 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -68 90 Left 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 12
SYMBOL Digital\\or 384 576 R0
WINDOW 3 -8 36 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A3
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL Digital\\or 384 832 M180
WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A4
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL voltage -336 832 R0
WINDOW 0 -84 28 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 12 2.5 10u 10u 5)
SYMBOL res 960 176 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res 960 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL Digital\\and -96 512 R0
WINDOW 3 16 52 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A7
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL Digital\\inv -240 544 R0
WINDOW 3 0 0 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A8
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL Digital\\and -96 768 M180
WINDOW 3 16 52 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A6
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL Digital\\and 32 704 M180
WINDOW 3 16 52 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A9
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMBOL Digital\\or 192 656 M180
WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2
SYMATTR InstName A10
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
TEXT 520 840 Left 2 !.model SW SW(Ron=.01 Roff=1G Vt=6 Vh=0)
TEXT 560 96 Left 2 ;GREEN
TEXT 592 480 Left 2 ;RED
TEXT -464 184 Left 2 ;RESET
TEXT -432 888 Left 2 ;TRIP
TEXT 520 872 Left 2 !.tran 10 startup
TEXT 528 808 Left 2 ;J Fields 16 August 2013
TEXT 528 768 Left 3 ;INHIBITED LATCH

--
JF
 
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:21:38 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:56:43 -0700 (PDT), eric@bauld.com wrote:


"Intention is that:

1) On power up neither relay is on

2) On momentary reset relay /w green is activated

3) If at any time trip is closed, green side is off, red is on

4) If reset is hit while trip is still open, nothing happens

5) if trip is open then reset will function and be able to trigger green led

6) At no time will both red and green be active

7) On init neither LED circuit is on "
Click to expand...

1. There's a conflict between "3" and "4". Shouldn't "4" read:
"If reset is hit while trip is closed, nothing happens."?
Click to expand...

---
Oops...

Between "4" and "5".

--
JF
 
Phil Allison schrieb:

> ** They should measure the resistance of a cold bulb some time....

Hello,

I did that some years ago and compared it with the resistance computed
from voltage and power of the bulb.

Bye
 
"Klaus Kragelund"
Phil Allison schrieb:

** Why do so many fools suggest bulbs in place of resistors ??

Incandescent bulbs use tungsten wire that has a strong positive tempco
- so much so that the effective resistance value changes over a ratio
of about 12 times from room temp to full brightness.
Click to expand...

When I was I kid, my dad go me introduced (indoctrinated) into electronics.
He gave me some switches and 12V bulbs to play with. He then added a large
12V bulb in series with the battery, so a short in the succeeding circuit
would be quite indicative. Bulbs can sometimes be put to good use :)


** 12V auto bulbs are often found in model train speed controllers as
current limiters and overload indicators.

Another use is with tweeters in high power speakers - one or two 12V bulbs
in series protects them from being over powered and damaged.

In both cases it's the fact that bulbs are NOT like resistors that makes
them useful.


.... Phil
 
mike schrieb:

Maybe the fools just understand what they need and how a light bulb might
be useful in that application.

Sometimes, easy and good enough is just good enough. And the fools
understand that.
Click to expand...

Hello,

but do the fools know if the source used is compatible to the high
current flowing through a cold bulb?

Bye
 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 20:17:49 -0700, miso <miso@sushi.com> wrote:

Depends. If a uP adds protections that an analog chip doesn't, then
it's safer.


Clearly you don't understand how watchdogs work.
Click to expand...

Any time you want to start making sense, we're ready to listen.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
 
miso wrote:
Unless the company making the chip can't deliver quantities in time.
Then the firmware solution, the discrete solution, or pretty much any
other solution is a better solution. Because it avoids the single-source
problem.


You remind me of some old lady that got cheated by some name your ethnic
minority and thus has concluded for the rest of eternity that said
ethnic minority is a bunch of crooks. [Those damn Martians screwed me. I
will never buy from extra-terrestrials again!]
Click to expand...

You need to get out more, talk to engineers in companies. Or go on
Digikey, key in "DC DC Switching Regulators".

Maxim total: 1221
Maxim in stock: 356

TI total: 7291
TI in stock: 3459


OK, Maxim dissed your dinky company. Get over it. Years ago they screwed
lots of people, but the people responsible for such nonsense are gone.
Click to expand...

That's what some folks promised over and over again. Just promises. The
example above is from right now, today.


[Still plenty more people need to be shown the door, but plenty of
wankers retired.] Buy from LTC, TI, whatever.
Click to expand...

Oh, I do buy from those. What I buy personally is of no consequence to
them or Maxim. The design decisions I make are.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Klaus Kragelund"
Phil Allison schrieb:

** Why do so many fools suggest bulbs in place of resistors ??

Incandescent bulbs use tungsten wire that has a strong positive tempco
- so much so that the effective resistance value changes over a ratio
of about 12 times from room temp to full brightness.

When I was I kid, my dad go me introduced (indoctrinated) into electronics.
He gave me some switches and 12V bulbs to play with. He then added a large
12V bulb in series with the battery, so a short in the succeeding circuit
would be quite indicative. Bulbs can sometimes be put to good use :)


** 12V auto bulbs are often found in model train speed controllers as
current limiters and overload indicators.

Another use is with tweeters in high power speakers - one or two 12V bulbs
in series protects them from being over powered and damaged.
Click to expand...

I only used gold plated, cryo treated OFHC copper filaments in my tweeter
protecting lamps.
 
In article <b77cc5For2cU1@mid.individual.net>, Joerg
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

miso wrote:

Unless the company making the chip can't deliver quantities in time.
Then the firmware solution, the discrete solution, or pretty much any
other solution is a better solution. Because it avoids the single-source
problem.


You remind me of some old lady that got cheated by some name your ethnic
minority and thus has concluded for the rest of eternity that said
ethnic minority is a bunch of crooks. [Those damn Martians screwed me. I
will never buy from extra-terrestrials again!]


You need to get out more, talk to engineers in companies. Or go on
Digikey, key in "DC DC Switching Regulators".

Maxim total: 1221
Maxim in stock: 356

TI total: 7291
TI in stock: 3459


OK, Maxim dissed your dinky company. Get over it. Years ago they screwed
lots of people, but the people responsible for such nonsense are gone.


That's what some folks promised over and over again. Just promises. The
example above is from right now, today.


[Still plenty more people need to be shown the door, but plenty of
wankers retired.] Buy from LTC, TI, whatever.


Oh, I do buy from those. What I buy personally is of no consequence to
them or Maxim. The design decisions I make are.
Click to expand...

Back in the day, I worked in a two-man company, and my rule was to
triple-source everything I could, and lifecycle stock everything I
couldn't. Because those companies don't care if a 2-man outfit lives
or dies.

Joe Gwinn
 
Joe Gwinn wrote:
In article <b77cc5For2cU1@mid.individual.net>, Joerg
invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

miso wrote:
Unless the company making the chip can't deliver quantities in time.
Then the firmware solution, the discrete solution, or pretty much any
other solution is a better solution. Because it avoids the single-source
problem.

You remind me of some old lady that got cheated by some name your ethnic
minority and thus has concluded for the rest of eternity that said
ethnic minority is a bunch of crooks. [Those damn Martians screwed me. I
will never buy from extra-terrestrials again!]

You need to get out more, talk to engineers in companies. Or go on
Digikey, key in "DC DC Switching Regulators".

Maxim total: 1221
Maxim in stock: 356

TI total: 7291
TI in stock: 3459


OK, Maxim dissed your dinky company. Get over it. Years ago they screwed
lots of people, but the people responsible for such nonsense are gone.

That's what some folks promised over and over again. Just promises. The
example above is from right now, today.


[Still plenty more people need to be shown the door, but plenty of
wankers retired.] Buy from LTC, TI, whatever.

Oh, I do buy from those. What I buy personally is of no consequence to
them or Maxim. The design decisions I make are.

Back in the day, I worked in a two-man company, and my rule was to
triple-source everything I could, and lifecycle stock everything I
couldn't. Because those companies don't care if a 2-man outfit lives
or dies.
Click to expand...

That is the reason why I sometimes design with discretes where there
would have been an IC. But there are certain companies I trust pretty
well and others that I do not trust. Over 15 years of my career was as a
consultant where one has many clients. You see a lot of grief around you
when in that role, folks not able to procure materials, line stop
situations, and so on. The good thing for me was that vaporware chips
have brought me several design-out jobs.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 00:30:28 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
<presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Klaus Kragelund"
Phil Allison schrieb:

** Why do so many fools suggest bulbs in place of resistors ??

Incandescent bulbs use tungsten wire that has a strong positive tempco
- so much so that the effective resistance value changes over a ratio
of about 12 times from room temp to full brightness.

When I was I kid, my dad go me introduced (indoctrinated) into electronics.
He gave me some switches and 12V bulbs to play with. He then added a large
12V bulb in series with the battery, so a short in the succeeding circuit
would be quite indicative. Bulbs can sometimes be put to good use :)


** 12V auto bulbs are often found in model train speed controllers as
current limiters and overload indicators.

Another use is with tweeters in high power speakers - one or two 12V bulbs
in series protects them from being over powered and damaged.

I only used gold plated, cryo treated OFHC copper filaments in my tweeter
protecting lamps.
Click to expand...

I prefer color-coordinated powder-coated filaments myself >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Uwe Hercksen" <hercksen@mew.uni-erlangen.de> wrote in message
news:b76pevFkqkoU1@mid.dfncis.de...
mike schrieb:

Maybe the fools just understand what they need and how a light bulb might
be useful in that application.

Sometimes, easy and good enough is just good enough. And the fools
understand that.

Hello,

but do the fools know if the source used is compatible to the high current
flowing through a cold bulb?

Bye
Click to expand...

Maybe the source is used to power a light bulb?
 
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:21:38 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 12:56:43 -0700 (PDT), eric@bauld.com wrote:

On Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:23:38 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, August 15, 2013 12:46:27 PM UTC-4, er...@bauld.com wrote:





http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8556/jxky.png



That's ridiculous. The gates don't come close to satisfying:

"Intention is that:

1) On power up neither relay is on

2) On momentary reset relay /w green is activated

3) If at any time trip is closed, green side is off, red is on

4) If reset is hit while trip is still open, nothing happens

5) if trip is open then reset will function and be able to trigger green led

6) At no time will both red and green be active

7) On init neither LED circuit is on "



The most basic logic is wrong. Maybe think about a less challenging project.

Perhaps something is lost in translation. As I have it placed out on a bread board and it is functioning as required. The only change I had to make was the capacitor which as far as I could tell set the initial state of the SR Latch to avoid the race condition.

---
1. There's a conflict between "3" and "4". Shouldn't "4" read:
"If reset is hit while trip is closed, nothing happens."?

2. The capacitor delay implemented like that isn't a good idea.

3. You don't need extra transistors to drive the LEDs.

4. You don't need the pullups and pulldowns on the logic outputs.

5. This'll get you what you want:
Click to expand...

---
Snipped erroneous circuit list; this one should be OK:

Version 4
SHEET 1 1244 1100
WIRE 544 32 496 32
WIRE 672 32 672 0
WIRE 672 32 624 32
WIRE 688 32 672 32
WIRE 752 32 688 32
WIRE 800 32 752 32
WIRE 496 64 496 32
WIRE 688 64 688 32
WIRE 800 96 800 32
WIRE 752 112 752 32
WIRE -192 128 -336 128
WIRE 176 128 -192 128
WIRE -336 144 -336 128
WIRE 496 160 496 128
WIRE 688 160 688 128
WIRE 688 160 496 160
WIRE 752 160 688 160
WIRE 272 176 240 176
WIRE 176 192 160 192
WIRE 496 192 496 160
WIRE 800 192 800 176
WIRE 160 208 160 192
WIRE 272 208 272 176
WIRE 160 240 272 208
WIRE 272 240 160 208
WIRE -336 256 -336 224
WIRE 160 256 160 240
WIRE 176 256 160 256
WIRE 272 272 272 240
WIRE 272 272 240 272
WIRE 448 272 272 272
WIRE -560 304 -592 304
WIRE -528 304 -560 304
WIRE -432 304 -464 304
WIRE -368 304 -432 304
WIRE -304 304 -368 304
WIRE 496 304 496 288
WIRE 800 304 800 272
WIRE 176 320 -240 320
WIRE -560 352 -560 304
WIRE -432 352 -432 304
WIRE -304 368 -336 368
WIRE 544 416 496 416
WIRE 672 416 672 384
WIRE 672 416 624 416
WIRE 688 416 672 416
WIRE 752 416 688 416
WIRE 800 416 752 416
WIRE 496 448 496 416
WIRE 688 448 688 416
WIRE -560 464 -560 432
WIRE -432 464 -432 432
WIRE 800 480 800 416
WIRE 752 496 752 416
WIRE -192 512 -192 128
WIRE -64 512 -192 512
WIRE 496 544 496 512
WIRE 688 544 688 512
WIRE 688 544 496 544
WIRE 752 544 688 544
WIRE 48 560 0 560
WIRE -368 576 -368 304
WIRE -64 576 -368 576
WIRE 496 576 496 544
WIRE 800 576 800 560
WIRE 176 608 112 608
WIRE 48 624 0 624
WIRE 0 656 0 624
WIRE 272 656 240 656
WIRE 448 656 272 656
WIRE 176 672 160 672
WIRE 160 688 160 672
WIRE 272 688 272 656
WIRE 496 688 496 672
WIRE 800 688 800 656
WIRE 160 720 272 688
WIRE 272 720 160 688
WIRE 160 736 160 720
WIRE 176 736 160 736
WIRE 272 752 272 720
WIRE 272 752 240 752
WIRE -336 800 -336 368
WIRE 0 800 0 720
WIRE 0 800 -336 800
WIRE 176 800 0 800
WIRE -336 848 -336 800
WIRE -336 960 -336 928
FLAG 496 304 0
FLAG 496 688 0
FLAG -432 464 0
FLAG -336 256 0
FLAG -336 960 0
FLAG 672 0 +12
FLAG -592 304 +12
FLAG -560 464 0
FLAG 800 304 0
FLAG 800 688 0
FLAG 672 384 +12
SYMBOL Digital\\or 208 96 R0
WINDOW 3 -8 36 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A1
SYMBOL sw 800 192 M180
WINDOW 0 45 44 Left 2
WINDOW 3 41 70 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName K1
SYMBOL nmos 448 192 R0
SYMATTR InstName M2
SYMATTR Value 2N7002
SYMBOL Digital\\or 208 352 M180
WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A2
SYMBOL diode 704 128 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL LED 480 64 R0
WINDOW 0 -25 -4 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -101 66 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value NSCW100
SYMBOL Digital\\or -272 272 R0
WINDOW 3 -8 36 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A5
SYMBOL cap -464 288 R90
WINDOW 0 -32 31 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 10n
SYMBOL res -448 336 R0
WINDOW 0 -42 42 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -64 72 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1meg
SYMBOL voltage -336 128 R0
WINDOW 0 -106 27 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 12 1 10u 10u .1 3)
SYMBOL sw 800 576 M180
WINDOW 0 45 44 Left 2
WINDOW 3 41 70 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName K2
SYMBOL diode 704 512 R180
WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value 1N4148
SYMBOL res 640 16 R90
WINDOW 0 -37 59 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -33 59 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 510
SYMBOL res 640 400 R90
WINDOW 0 -33 60 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 -34 62 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 510
SYMBOL nmos 448 576 R0
SYMATTR InstName M1
SYMATTR Value 2N7002
SYMBOL LED 480 448 R0
WINDOW 0 -25 -3 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -101 66 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value NSCW100
SYMBOL voltage -560 336 R0
WINDOW 0 -70 55 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -68 90 Invisible 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 12
SYMBOL Digital\\or 208 576 R0
WINDOW 3 -8 36 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A3
SYMBOL Digital\\or 208 832 M180
WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A4
SYMBOL voltage -336 832 R0
WINDOW 0 -84 28 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 12 2.5 10u 10u 3)
SYMBOL res 784 176 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res 784 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL Digital\\inv -64 720 R270
WINDOW 3 0 0 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A8
SYMBOL Digital\\and 80 656 M180
WINDOW 3 16 52 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A7
SYMBOL Digital\\or -32 608 M180
WINDOW 3 -8 128 Invisible 2
SYMATTR Value trise 1e-7 tfall 1e-7 vhigh 12V
SYMATTR InstName A6
TEXT 344 840 Left 2 !.model SW SW(Ron=.01 Roff=1G Vt=6 Vh=0)
TEXT 384 96 Left 2 ;GREEN
TEXT 416 480 Left 2 ;RED
TEXT -464 184 Left 2 ;RESET
TEXT -432 888 Left 2 ;TRIP
TEXT 344 872 Left 2 !.tran 10 startup
TEXT 352 808 Left 2 ;J Fields 16 August 2013
TEXT 352 768 Left 3 ;INHIBITED LATCH

--
JF
 
>"Look at the incredible behavior of NASA seizing moon rock samples that
astronauts gave as gifts. They get an old lady with a rock to come forward
and then swarm her in riot gear. They all swear to defend the Constitution
but don't understand what that means.
"
Do you have a link on that ? Don't get me wrong, I believe you, hell they catch you selling raw milk they treat you like you cook crank (meth). It's not a matter of disbelief I just want it for reference when I bitch about the government.

I did a quick google on it and I find that yes, apparently some moonrocks are missing, they say stolen. I guess technically since the astronauts were on the payroll the government does own the rocks.

I like stories about them handcuffing little old Ladies and ransacking the house and shit like that for ammunition, but what I REALLY like is stories about little old Ladies who blow some punk's head off for breaking in their house and trying to rob them and who knows what else.
 
On Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:01:18 PM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:

The moon rocks are mostly being stolen by politicians, even Bill Clinton tried to grab one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_and_missing_moon_rocks#Recovered_gifted_rocks
 
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