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EHWollmann wrote:
"Don T" <-painter-@louvre.org> wrote in message
news:toWdnWVkGLbonnvXnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
Wasn't $1 a watt it was $1.98 but here it is.
"vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote in message
news:h95fmr$7s2$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Pull in your spam antennas. I have no connection to this company
except I bought an EU-2000 from them once, and I may buy a new PV
panel from them tomorrow if those prices are real. At that price,
they have the SUN-130 and
SUN-150. The minimum number of panels they will ship is two. I
hope to drive down there tomorrow and pick up one.
http://sunelec.com/
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products
_id=357
Two years ago we were talking about a silicon & carbon shortage and
impossibly growing PV prices. Is the PV industry facing over
production now? How quickly things change.
Vaughn
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating
once, and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
"Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB085E398BC8greederxprtnet@94.75.244.51...
A few week ago someone posted a link to a supplier in Florida who
had some solar panals available at $1.00/watt.
Can you repost the link, I can't seem to find it.
Be careful, when you deal with American dumbasses, everything they
made or recommended is over-rated or exaggerated. For example, DELCO
REMY' 140A alternator is really a 80-90-amp alternator, look at its
copper wire thickness(0.08" thick same a Bosch 80amp 0.08" thick)
and don't believe what the label says. Also their new Chevy Volt
200mpg is a fake hybrid, what it is a 30-40miles per charge mileage,
not per tank. The dumbasses in these forums are so proud of their
hyped products, and they complained so much about the Chinese
products. What a shame...
A dollar a watt solar panels would be totally useless, since they
would simply be "paint it green" transfer payments of existing
hydrocarbon or nuclear energy.
EHWollmann wrote:
"Don T" <-painter-@louvre.org> wrote in message
news:toWdnWVkGLbonnvXnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
Wasn't $1 a watt it was $1.98 but here it is.
"vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote in message
news:h95fmr$7s2$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Pull in your spam antennas. I have no connection to this company
except I
bought an EU-2000 from them once, and I may buy a new PV panel from
them
tomorrow if those prices are real. At that price, they have the
SUN-130 and
SUN-150. The minimum number of panels they will ship is two. I hope to
drive down there tomorrow and pick up one.
http://sunelec.com/
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=357
Two years ago we were talking about a silicon & carbon shortage and
impossibly growing PV prices. Is the PV industry facing over
production
now? How quickly things change.
Vaughn
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
"Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB085E398BC8greederxprtnet@94.75.244.51...
A few week ago someone posted a link to a supplier in Florida who
had some
solar panals available at $1.00/watt.
Can you repost the link, I can't seem to find it.
Be careful, when you deal with American dumbasses, everything they
made or recommended is over-rated or exaggerated. For example, DELCO
REMY' 140A alternator is really a 80-90-amp alternator, look at its
copper wire thickness(0.08" thick same a Bosch 80amp 0.08" thick) and
don't believe what the label says. Also their new Chevy Volt 200mpg
is a fake hybrid, what it is a 30-40miles per charge mileage, not per
tank. The dumbasses in these forums are so proud of their hyped
products, and they complained so much about the Chinese products.
What a shame...
A dollar a watt solar panels would be totally useless, since they would
simply be "paint it green" transfer payments of existing hydrocarbon or
nuclear energy.
And still remain asoline destroying net energy sinks that are in no
manner green, renewable, nor sustainable.
It makes no sense at all to sell a dime's worth of conventional
electricity and then use that dime to buy some mythical "renewable" energy.
For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf
Unless we can somehow miraculously heal the country of its paranoia andWith all due respect Don, you are full of it, there's an energy cost tied
to production of any product, few of them produce ANY energy,or payback
and they degrade from the time of purchase. Nobody knows what the future
cost of electricity is, but it's bound to increase greatly.
How do you figure this? The price of panels obviously include the price of ALLA dollar a watt solar panels would be totally useless, since they
would simply be "paint it green" transfer payments of existing
hydrocarbon or nuclear energy.
Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to beFor net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down the road,"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message news:7kooa3F39fllbU1@mid.individual.net...
For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be confusing energy break even with economic break even. I a
perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in the real world.
Vaughn
Over here we pay around 15c per kWhr for mains electricity.EHWollmann wrote:
"Don T" <-painter-@louvre.org> wrote in message
news:toWdnWVkGLbonnvXnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
Wasn't $1 a watt it was $1.98 but here it is.
"vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote in message
news:h95fmr$7s2$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Pull in your spam antennas. I have no connection to this company
except I
bought an EU-2000 from them once, and I may buy a new PV panel from
them
tomorrow if those prices are real. At that price, they have the
SUN-130 and
SUN-150. The minimum number of panels they will ship is two. I hope to
drive down there tomorrow and pick up one.
http://sunelec.com/
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=357
Two years ago we were talking about a silicon & carbon shortage and
impossibly growing PV prices. Is the PV industry facing over
production
now? How quickly things change.
Vaughn
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
"Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB085E398BC8greederxprtnet@94.75.244.51...
A few week ago someone posted a link to a supplier in Florida who
had some
solar panals available at $1.00/watt.
Can you repost the link, I can't seem to find it.
Be careful, when you deal with American dumbasses, everything they
made or recommended is over-rated or exaggerated. For example, DELCO
REMY' 140A alternator is really a 80-90-amp alternator, look at its
copper wire thickness(0.08" thick same a Bosch 80amp 0.08" thick) and
don't believe what the label says. Also their new Chevy Volt 200mpg
is a fake hybrid, what it is a 30-40miles per charge mileage, not per
tank. The dumbasses in these forums are so proud of their hyped
products, and they complained so much about the Chinese products.
What a shame...
A dollar a watt solar panels would be totally useless, since they would
simply be "paint it green" transfer payments of existing hydrocarbon or
nuclear energy.
And still remain asoline destroying net energy sinks that are in no
manner green, renewable, nor sustainable.
It makes no sense at all to sell a dime's worth of conventional
electricity and then use that dime to buy some mythical "renewable" energy.
For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf
Who knows, but for a $1.98 a watt it's a good deal if you want to give"vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote in message news:hc7utq$1a1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message news:7kooa3F39fllbU1@mid.individual.net...
For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be confusing energy break even with economic break even. I a
perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in the real world.
Vaughn
I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down the road,
possibly decades. And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net energy surplus.
And before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah...
Copy the reactors from the submarines and aircraft carriers and use them
to power tankers and container ships and cruise ships.
Thanks,
Rich
You should investigate how much diesel goes into producing the uraniumOn Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:04 -0400, nospam wrote:
With all due respect Don, you are full of it, there's an energy cost
tied
to production of any product, few of them produce ANY energy,or payback
and they degrade from the time of purchase. Nobody knows what the future
cost of electricity is, but it's bound to increase greatly.
Unless we can somehow miraculously heal the country of its paranoia and
get a viable nuclear power program going.
Copy the reactors from the submarines and aircraft carriers and use them
to power tankers and container ships and cruise ships.
Thanks,
Rich
In the daytime.Even having a couple would keep the lights on
in an emergency.
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:04 -0400, nospam wrote:
With all due respect Don, you are full of it, there's an energy cost tied
to production of any product, few of them produce ANY energy,or payback
and they degrade from the time of purchase. Nobody knows what the future
cost of electricity is, but it's bound to increase greatly.
Unless we can somehow miraculously heal the country of its paranoia and
get a viable nuclear power program going.
Copy the reactors from the submarines and aircraft carriers and use them
to power tankers and container ships and cruise ships.
Thanks,
Rich
Check; rename the tech to "New, Clear".
You should investigate how much diesel goes into producing the uraniumOn Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:04 -0400, nospam wrote:
With all due respect Don, you are full of it, there's an energy cost tied
to production of any product, few of them produce ANY energy,or payback
and they degrade from the time of purchase. Nobody knows what the future
cost of electricity is, but it's bound to increase greatly.
Unless we can somehow miraculously heal the country of its paranoia and
get a viable nuclear power program going.
Copy the reactors from the submarines and aircraft carriers and use them
to power tankers and container ships and cruise ships.
Thanks,
Rich
Yes, I read the whole book. Not sure when you went to college, but "inm...@sushi.com> wrote in message
news:80d4465c-e5e7-4b6e-9637-598cf1eca8bc@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 27, 12:49 pm, Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:04 -0400, nospam wrote:
With all due respect Don, you are full of it, there's an energy cost
tied
to production of any product, few of them produce ANY energy,or
payback
and they degrade from the time of purchase. Nobody knows what the
future
cost of electricity is, but it's bound to increase greatly.
Unless we can somehow miraculously heal the country of its paranoia and
get a viable nuclear power program going.
Copy the reactors from the submarines and aircraft carriers and use them
to power tankers and container ships and cruise ships.
Thanks,
Rich
You should investigate how much diesel goes into producing the uranium
to fuel the reactor. Uranium is very plentiful, but the yield is very
low. Eventually you make back the energy in producing the fuel, but
it's not like the fuel is free. Now if we had reprocessing plants, the
math would be more favorable, but reprocessing is very messy.
I used to be pro-nuclear until I read Dr. Helen Caldicot's "Nuclear
Power is not the Answer.". One thing I hadn't realized is nuclear
plants have to release gas periodically. The amount of radiation
released is very small, probably less than that of a coal plant, but
it isn't the closed loop system everyone makes it out to be.
OMG did you manage to read the whole thing?
You might want to read a few other books before you abandon "pro-nuclear"
Yes, I read the whole book. Not sure when you went to college, but "inm...@sushi.com> wrote in message
news:80d4465c-e5e7-4b6e-9637-598cf1eca8bc@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 27, 12:49 pm, Rich Grise <richgr...@example.net> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:04 -0400, nospam wrote:
With all due respect Don, you are full of it, there's an energy cost
tied
to production of any product, few of them produce ANY energy,or payback
and they degrade from the time of purchase. Nobody knows what the future
cost of electricity is, but it's bound to increase greatly.
Unless we can somehow miraculously heal the country of its paranoia and
get a viable nuclear power program going.
Copy the reactors from the submarines and aircraft carriers and use them
to power tankers and container ships and cruise ships.
Thanks,
Rich
You should investigate how much diesel goes into producing the uranium
to fuel the reactor. Uranium is very plentiful, but the yield is very
low. Eventually you make back the energy in producing the fuel, but
it's not like the fuel is free. Now if we had reprocessing plants, the
math would be more favorable, but reprocessing is very messy.
I used to be pro-nuclear until I read Dr. Helen Caldicot's "Nuclear
Power is not the Answer.". One thing I hadn't realized is nuclear
plants have to release gas periodically. The amount of radiation
released is very small, probably less than that of a coal plant, but
it isn't the closed loop system everyone makes it out to be.
OMG did you manage to read the whole thing?
You might want to read a few other books before you abandon "pro-nuclear"
"Don T" <-painter-@louvre.org> wrote in message news:toWdnWVkGLbonnvXnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
What's the value of fighting for the freedom of a man who doesn't want
Freedom but wants Mommy?
TheM wrote:
"vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote in message news:hc7utq$1a1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message news:7kooa3F39fllbU1@mid.individual.net...
For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be confusing energy break even with economic break even. I a
perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in the real world.
Vaughn
I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down the road,
possibly decades. And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net energy surplus.
And before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
M
Who knows, but for a $1.98 a watt it's a good deal if you want to give
it a go. I know I could run my home office off a couple of panels
(laptop, printer etc.)Even having a couple would keep the lights on
in an emergency.
economic break even will come far sooner for the off-grid person who isI think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down
the road,
possibly decades.
Yes, but economic break even is also an important concept. For example; PV
Again, maintenance is mostly an economic issue, it has less to do with netAnd fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net energy surplus.
Yes, but demand, and the competition that demand generates, is a mainAnd before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
And rightly so. It is far safer to store high-level nuclear waste on-siteWorse yet, there is plenty of nuclear waste
stored at the reactor sites that is not in any containment vessel. They let
the rods cool a bit before even considering transferring them
offsite,
The problems with Yuca Mountain are far more political than scientific. Theand we now know Yucca Mountain will not be opened.
After 4pm six months of the year, yes I do need lights.nospam@nevis.com wrote:
TheM wrote:
"vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@gmail.FAKE.com> wrote in message news:hc7utq$1a1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message news:7kooa3F39fllbU1@mid.individual.net...
For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be confusing energy break even with economic break even. I a
perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in the real world.
Vaughn
I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down the road,
possibly decades. And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net energy surplus.
And before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
M
Who knows, but for a $1.98 a watt it's a good deal if you want to give
it a go. I know I could run my home office off a couple of panels
(laptop, printer etc.)Even having a couple would keep the lights on
in an emergency.
If there is enough sun to power the lights, you don't need them.