Driver to drive?

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 07:48:10 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 13:43:52 +1000, Clifford Heath
no.spam@please.net> wrote:

On 12/09/18 12:14, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 12 September 2018 01:29:51 UTC+1, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 11/09/18 07:45, bitrex wrote:

Some of the press and popular writers might have thought
heavier-than-air flight was impossible in 1900 but there was likely less
skepticism in the scientific community.

I honestly wonder how anyone thought that.
Surely they knew that birds are heavier than air?

IIUC, which I might not, the thinking of the time was that birds have large wing muscles and not a lot of the rest of them, whereas we have relatively puny arm muscles. Of course wings could always be pedalled...


What does that have to do with my question?

I asked about heavier-then-air flight, not human-powered flight.

The human output in W/kg is quite poor, so is the output from a horse
or early steam engines. Have you seen many steam powered planes ?

Only after decades of internal combustion engine development, the
power output in W/kg was sufficient to maintain sustained flight.

Human-powered planes do work, and could have been built in 1900. If
anyone had believed it to be possible.

Heck, a good neon sign shop could have built a laser in 1920.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Klaus Kragelund]

Buy one and reverse engineer it

Draw schematic

Cheers

Klaus

 

[OGER]

You must like the sound of your own voice too.

I do not care to unsolder components to determine their values nor rip
the top of ICs off to microscopically see what the circuit is.

Klaus Kragelund wrote:

Buy one and reverse engineer it

Draw schematic

Cheers

Klaus

 

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:

You must like the sound of your own voice too.

Insulting those that offer help isn't very helpful.

I have to agree with the OP. He replied to a (somewhat snarky) post that was not intended to be helpful, rather just an opportunity to make some noise here. I guess we don't have enough random words tossed around in this venue.

Rick C.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:

>You must like the sound of your own voice too.

Insulting those that offer help isn't very helpful.

I do not care to unsolder components to determine their values nor rip
the top of ICs off to microscopically see what the circuit is.

The Harbor Fright unit costs a fabulous $12.99. Surely you could
afford to buy an extra unit to dissect and analyze. After reading
some of the 2557 reviews, starting with the lowest rating, it might be
helpful to buy two spares, as one is likely to be non-functional.
There's also some indication that there are at least 2 models, the
current one of which has problems. With 376 one star reviews (about
15% of the total reviews), I would be seriously worried about quality.

What you will probably find inside are two PCB's. One for the PIR
motion detector, and another for the 433MHz transmitter. A matching
433MHz receiver in the remote. Something like these:
<http://electronics-diy.com/pir-motion-detector.php>
<https://us.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-433MHz-100M-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-Kit-Transmitter-Receiver-2pcs-Copper-Spring-Antenna-wp-Usa-1179985.html>
You could probably build something from scratch easier than you could
modify an existing product.

As for your "special application", permit me to offer a horror story
from my checkered past. At one point during the 1980's, I decided to
morph into a consultant specializing in RF design. I was approached
by someone who wanted me to build an IR perimeter alarm system. Close
enough to RF, I guess. He had a good story about installing it on his
turkey farm to detect escaping turkeys and marauding predators. I
produced a workable design, built a working prototype, and later
arranged for 25 more. I was paid promptly and fairly, which should
have been a clue that something was not quite right.

About a year later, I was visited by the sheriff and "asked" to attend
a meeting at the districts attorneys office. My customer had used the
perimeter alarm to protect is marijuana crop and had wired a shotgun
loaded with rock salt into the system to deal with intruders. Some
local kids were the first victims. I managed to talk my way out of
being charged with assault by claiming that I only designed the system
and therefore had nothing to do with how it was installed or used.

Since then, I have avoided and treated with suspicion any mention of
"people detector", "motion detector", "perimeter alarm", and other
such devices.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[amdx]

On 9/21/2018 11:57 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:

You must like the sound of your own voice too.

Insulting those that offer help isn't very helpful.

I do not care to unsolder components to determine their values nor rip
the top of ICs off to microscopically see what the circuit is.

The Harbor Fright unit costs a fabulous $12.99. Surely you could
afford to buy an extra unit to dissect and analyze. After reading
some of the 2557 reviews, starting with the lowest rating, it might be
helpful to buy two spares, as one is likely to be non-functional.
There's also some indication that there are at least 2 models, the
current one of which has problems. With 376 one star reviews (about
15% of the total reviews), I would be seriously worried about quality.

What you will probably find inside are two PCB's. One for the PIR
motion detector, and another for the 433MHz transmitter. A matching
433MHz receiver in the remote. Something like these:
http://electronics-diy.com/pir-motion-detector.php
https://us.banggood.com/Wholesale-Warehouse-433MHz-100M-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-Kit-Transmitter-Receiver-2pcs-Copper-Spring-Antenna-wp-Usa-1179985.html
You could probably build something from scratch easier than you could
modify an existing product.

As for your "special application", permit me to offer a horror story
from my checkered past. At one point during the 1980's, I decided to
morph into a consultant specializing in RF design. I was approached
by someone who wanted me to build an IR perimeter alarm system. Close
enough to RF, I guess. He had a good story about installing it on his
turkey farm to detect escaping turkeys and marauding predators. I
produced a workable design, built a working prototype, and later
arranged for 25 more. I was paid promptly and fairly, which should
have been a clue that something was not quite right.

About a year later, I was visited by the sheriff and "asked" to attend
a meeting at the districts attorneys office. My customer had used the
perimeter alarm to protect is marijuana crop and had wired a shotgun
loaded with rock salt into the system to deal with intruders. Some
local kids were the first victims. I managed to talk my way out of
being charged with assault by claiming that I only designed the system
and therefore had nothing to do with how it was installed or used.

Since then, I have avoided and treated with suspicion any mention of
"people detector", "motion detector", "perimeter alarm", and other
such devices.

That sounds about as exciting as the time I got a visit at my
workplace from an IRS and FBI agent. Something about trafficking cocaine!
I ended up photographed and finger printed at some downtown office,
when I protested they said well we can just put you before the grand
jury then. I wish I would have went before the grand jury.
Anyway, had nothing to do with me, I just happen to purchase a pickup
truck from a drug dealer.
The dealer happened to be the son in law of the people that owned the
business my wife worked for. I had very little awareness of this person,
I think we were both at the company Christmas party, but I could not
have picked him out. This was in the very early 80s.
Mikek

Mikek

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 10:23:54 -0700 (PDT),
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:

You must like the sound of your own voice too.

Insulting those that offer help isn't very helpful.

I have to agree with the OP. He replied to a (somewhat snarky) post
that was not intended to be helpful, rather just an opportunity to
make some noise here. I guess we don't have enough random words
tossed around in this venue.
Rick C.

I beg to differ. You appear to consider replying in kind to be an
acceptable method of discourse. From my experience on Usenet, that's
an invitation to an endless series of insults and counter insults
between those involved. Nobody wins, nobody loses, and nobody cares.
My comment was intended to defuse the situation so that neither party
felt obligated to retaliate.

Maybe think if it this way. The price of having questions answered on
Usenet could include some abrasive comments.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Neon John]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 09:57:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:
I was paid promptly and fairly, which should
have been a clue that something was not quite right.

Why does getting paid fairly and promptly seem not right? That's a
proper thing to do, after all

About a year later, I was visited by the sheriff and "asked" to attend
a meeting at the districts attorneys office. My customer had used the
perimeter alarm to protect is marijuana crop and had wired a shotgun
loaded with rock salt into the system to deal with intruders. Some
local kids were the first victims.

Sounds like a pretty decent setup to me. When I was a sub-teen, some
friends and I were exploring some posted property when suddenly there
was a boom and rock salt peppered the group. I wasn't in the center
of the group but I took a few rocks in the legs (short pants). That
taught me an abiding lesson that definitely shaped my character.

When I told Mom, she said "you got exactly what you deserved" and put
me in my room for the rest of the day.

As far as getting paid, after getting told "so sue us" after being
refused payment for about a quarter million bux project (we did and we
won), I took a clue from my lawyer. I now bill hours against a
retainer.

I'll design anything for just about anybody but they have to sign a
"scope and disclaimer" document where they indemnify me against any
improper use. I KNOW that I've designed at least one device
(controller for a moonshine still) but the customer didn't tell me
what he wanted to use it for except in general terms and I didn't ask.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 16:19:09 -0400, Neon John <no@never.com> wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 09:57:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:
I was paid promptly and fairly, which should
have been a clue that something was not quite right.

Why does getting paid fairly and promptly seem not right? That's a
proper thing to do, after all

When I do computer repair or consulting, I have had almost no
difficulty getting paid for my work. However, my consulting jobs and
projects are different. Getting paid has been difficult for me.
Fortunately, most of my jobs are "quick fixes" and "damage control"
where the billing doesn't approach anything that would affect my
lifestyle. I also have other sources of income. Over the years, I've
had occasion to consider litigation, but have never bothered because
return on investment in time and money would not have been worthwhile.

About a year later, I was visited by the sheriff and "asked" to
attend
a meeting at the districts attorneys office. My customer had used the
perimeter alarm to protect is marijuana crop and had wired a shotgun
loaded with rock salt into the system to deal with intruders. Some
local kids were the first victims.

Sounds like a pretty decent setup to me. When I was a sub-teen, some
friends and I were exploring some posted property when suddenly there
was a boom and rock salt peppered the group. I wasn't in the center
of the group but I took a few rocks in the legs (short pants). That
taught me an abiding lesson that definitely shaped my character.

I've also had my share of regrettable incidents when I was young and
stupid. However, the perimeter alarm project was when I was about 37
years old. One might expect that I should have known better, trusted
my suspicions, or at least investigated the client. Nope, I blundered
ahead without covering my posterior or verifying anything he claimed.

I hadn't thought about the possibility of misuse until Phil Hobbs
mentioned an IED.

As far as getting paid, after getting told "so sue us" after being
refused payment for about a quarter million bux project (we did and we
won), I took a clue from my lawyer. I now bill hours against a
retainer.

For that amount, I too would have sued. However, the average
consulting job produced about $15K net. California small claims court
is currently limited to $10K. At the time, I vaguely recall that it
was limited to $2,500, which was not worth my time, while a regular
lawsuit would have cost too much in legal fees.

I'll design anything for just about anybody but they have to sign a
"scope and disclaimer" document where they indemnify me against any
improper use.

Good idea. However, like collecting on fees, my typical clients don't
want to sign anything and will contrive whatever excuses are necessary
to avoid signing.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 4:19:18 PM UTC-4, Neon John wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 09:57:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:13:40 -0700, OGER <OGER@OGERPlace.com> wrote:
I was paid promptly and fairly, which should
have been a clue that something was not quite right.

Why does getting paid fairly and promptly seem not right? That's a
proper thing to do, after all

About a year later, I was visited by the sheriff and "asked" to attend
a meeting at the districts attorneys office. My customer had used the
perimeter alarm to protect is marijuana crop and had wired a shotgun
loaded with rock salt into the system to deal with intruders. Some
local kids were the first victims.

Sounds like a pretty decent setup to me. When I was a sub-teen, some
friends and I were exploring some posted property when suddenly there
was a boom and rock salt peppered the group. I wasn't in the center
of the group but I took a few rocks in the legs (short pants). That
taught me an abiding lesson that definitely shaped my character.

When I told Mom, she said "you got exactly what you deserved" and put
me in my room for the rest of the day.

She was speaking from the point of view of knowing you were not seriously injured. Someone could have been seriously injured or even killed by that. Then the person who set it up would have been on trial for manslaughter.

What if someone who had every right to be there were injured such as a cop responding thinking the place was being robbed or someone else was injured and needed help?

A basic premise of US law is that the right to be safe from injury and/or death outweighs the right to not be robbed.

Rick C.

 

>"She was speaking from the point of view of knowing you were not seriously injured. Someone could have been seriously injured or even killed by that. "

Not likely. Salt does not have the density of lead so no matter how fast it travels it doesn't penetrate anywhere near as deep. Plus they load the cartridges lightly, precisely so they don't kill.

 

>"A basic premise of US law is that the right to be safe from injury and/or death outweighs the right to not be robbed. "

Incorrect. The Heller case is a clue.

 

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 5:59:55 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"She was speaking from the point of view of knowing you were not seriously injured. Someone could have been seriously injured or even killed by that. "

Not likely. Salt does not have the density of lead so no matter how fast it travels it doesn't penetrate anywhere near as deep. Plus they load the cartridges lightly, precisely so they don't kill.

People have been killed by the paper holding the power in a blank cartridge. Firearms are dangerous and can kill. Using one as a man trap is illegal and anyone convicted of such will get "exactly what you deserved".

Rick C.

 

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 6:09:14 PM UTC-4, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"A basic premise of US law is that the right to be safe from injury and/or death outweighs the right to not be robbed. "

Incorrect. The Heller case is a clue.

District of Columbia v. Heller has NOTHING to do with this issue.

Rick C.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 9/22/18 5:59 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"She was speaking from the point of view of knowing you were not seriously injured. Someone could have been seriously injured or even killed by that."

Not likely. Salt does not have the density of lead so no matter how fast it travels it doesn't penetrate anywhere near as deep. Plus they load the cartridges lightly, precisely so they don't kill.

Very comforting if you get blinded, of course.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 11:27:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Maybe think if it this way. The price of having questions answered on
Usenet could include some abrasive comments.

Well, it would be nice if it didn't, but it often does; some people being
more abrasive than others.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

You parachute in here with an unknown nym and keep asking for help with this super-sketchy-sounding project. Alarm bells go off all round--IED, booby trap, legitimate application, or what?

Plausible details about your project and yourself, please--otherwise no help from me, for one.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

It's a sad state of affairs we have today with this 'presumption of ill-
intent' on the part of group towards outsiders seeking help. It never
used to be this way.

If he were asking for advice on a crystal set, a MCU, or a TIA, there would be no such issue.

If he were more forthcoming about himself and his application, even a motion-detector might pass muster. But as things are, no way, oh-jay.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 13:41:23 -0700, pcdhobbs wrote:

You parachute in here with an unknown nym and keep asking for help with
this super-sketchy-sounding project. Alarm bells go off all round--IED,
booby trap, legitimate application, or what?

Plausible details about your project and yourself, please--otherwise no
help from me, for one.

It's a sad state of affairs we have today with this 'presumption of ill-
intent' on the part of group towards outsiders seeking help. It never
used to be this way.




--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

On Sunday, 23 September 2018 22:05:07 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 13:41:23 -0700, pcdhobbs wrote:

You parachute in here with an unknown nym and keep asking for help with
this super-sketchy-sounding project. Alarm bells go off all round--IED,
booby trap, legitimate application, or what?

Plausible details about your project and yourself, please--otherwise no
help from me, for one.

It's a sad state of affairs we have today with this 'presumption of ill-
intent' on the part of group towards outsiders seeking help. It never
used to be this way.

I don't presume guilt. I don't presume innocence either. Reality is there are people building IEDs and more that want to. I want no part of enabling them to do it. FWIW this comes across more like a crude way to defeat security systems, which might be for similar purposes, or regular crime or organised crime. Either way the OP can forget it.

There are a veritable bunch of red flags in the OP. I hope it's just some kid with too much time on their hands, but it could just as well be something else entirely.

There is also law against providing dual use technology to foreign countries, and while some here might not be aware of it I don't think the authorities would in any way take kindly to providing people with info enabling them to kill. I wouldn't help even if the name & project sounded plausible, those prove nothing.


NT