Driver to drive?

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 1:17:53 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Gentlemen,

One of the drawbacks of attempting to fix vintage stuff is the expected
voltage readings given in the service manuals of the day. The manuals
usually state that the readings given were measured with analogue VMs of
a certain ohms-per-volt rating - most commonly IME 20k. Consequently if
you measure with a modern DVM with stupendously high Zin you're screwed
and will get unrealistically high values.

If you aren't thinking about what is actually going on in the circuit.

> That's never worried me as I keep a vintage AVO for just such circs.

Anything to avoid having to think.

All the British service manuals
seem to reference 20k OpV AVOs. However, I'm currently TS on a mid 70s Tek
scope the manual for which states the readings given are valid for a
meter with a Zin of between 100k and 200k (specifically a Triplett 630NS
see link).

Anyone come up with a solution to the problem of making voltage readings
on high impedance parts of a circuit with a meter of a different Zin to
that used by the people who wrote the service manual?

Never heard of an analogue meter with such a high Zin, but here it is:

https://tinyurl.com/ycjz9l4o

As has been pointed out, you can simulate any lower Zin you like by adding the appropriate parallel resistance, but that does involve thinking, and Cursitor Doom's preferred mode of existence involves reading what is in front of his eyes, and never thinking about what it means.

The Daily Mail sells him nonsense designed to appeal to non-thinking right wingers, and Russia today sells him equally fatuous nonsense designed to present Putin and his crew of rapacious oligarchs in a good light.

Nature doesn't actually abhor an intellectual vacuum, but people like that do tend to win Darwin awards.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Sunday, 19 August 2018 19:35:38 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

> My point ? Figure out what those voltages should be on your own.

Of course that's the ideal thing. But the reality is that if working on a circuit the person doesn't understand too well, and it's happened to all of us, a diagram with expected voltages is a big plus. And that's why they have long been popular.


NT

 

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:14:47 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 16:22:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I know the feeling. Three times in my life I've turned my hobby into a
business. Now, I'm getting ready to begin to start planning to retire
and I'm turning my business into a hobby with at least one of my hobbies
into a potential business. Perhaps it would be better for the skools to
teach hobbies instead of professions?

Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids *what* to
think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail

Very little of a typical school day is now
spent learning anything genuinely useful.

That does depend how you define "useful". The Daily Mail probably regrets the disappearance of Latin.

The kids the schools turn out
into the world of work nowadays are mostly only suited to flipping
burgers or delivering pizzas.

Which is to say, competing with Cursitor Doom, who couldn't manage anything more demanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

tells us that 49% of UK's 24-35 year-old have completed some form of tertiary education, which moves them beyond flipping burgers and delivering pizzas.

Admittedly some properly qualified chefs do include the hamburger - or some version of it - in their repertoire. Julia Child did include the dish in her Mastering the Art of French Cooking, but Cursitor Doom wouldn't have known that.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:35:53 AM UTC+10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 09:56:08 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I'm an engineer, not a service technician.

Good Lord!! I've only been reading your comments on this group for the
last 20+ years and never really noticed that before! ;-)

Your nym isn't that old. What was it before?

Eeyore. The name of a depressive donkey from A.A. Milne's Winniew-the-Pooh children's books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeyore

At that he was over-valuing his intelligence.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Mike Perkins]

On 20/08/2018 02:05, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:14:47 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 16:22:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I know the feeling. Three times in my life I've turned my hobby
into a business. Now, I'm getting ready to begin to start
planning to retire and I'm turning my business into a hobby with
at least one of my hobbies into a potential business. Perhaps it
would be better for the skools to teach hobbies instead of
professions?

Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids
*what* to think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail

Very little of a typical school day is now spent learning anything
genuinely useful.

That does depend how you define "useful". The Daily Mail probably
regrets the disappearance of Latin.

The kids the schools turn out into the world of work nowadays are
mostly only suited to flipping burgers or delivering pizzas.

Which is to say, competing with Cursitor Doom, who couldn't manage
anything more demanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

tells us that 49% of UK's 24-35 year-old have completed some form of
tertiary education, which moves them beyond flipping burgers and
delivering pizzas.

You might think so, but very wrong. Unfortunately much of UK tertiary
education in the past decade or so is in subjects such as media science
and equally useless subject that have few opportunities. As a result
many do go onto flipping burgers.

2 years ago I knew a software engineer, who after taking into account
the costs of living away from home, said he was better off working for
McDonalds.

Admittedly some properly qualified chefs do include the hamburger -
or some version of it - in their repertoire. Julia Child did include
the dish in her Mastering the Art of French Cooking, but Cursitor
Doom wouldn't have known that.

I'm sure even Mr Doom will also have been dragged into seeing Julia &
Julia (2009).


--
Mike Perkins
Video Solutions Ltd
www.videosolutions.ltd.uk

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 19 August 2018 19:35:38 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

My point ? Figure out what those voltages should be on your own.

Of course that's the ideal thing. But the reality is that if working
on a circuit the person doesn't understand too well, and it's
happened to all of us, a diagram with expected voltages is a big
plus. And that's why they have long been popular.

My father bought a Sony Trinitron in 1978, which came with a complete
schematic that had waveforms in addition to voltages. That was the last
time I saw a TV that came with one.

 

>"The repair technician usually needs to make one work."

Not me.

 

"> Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids *what* to
think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail "

You piece of fucking garbage, get off our planet.

 

>"2 years ago I knew a software engineer, who after taking into account
the costs of living away from home, said he was better off working for
McDonalds. "

Not so good at it eh ?

No offense but that means som

 

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 19:17:10 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"> Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids *what* to
think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail "

You piece of fucking garbage, get off our planet.

He is. Oh, he's *far* off this planet.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 19:17:10 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"> Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids
*what* to think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail "

You piece of fucking garbage, get off our planet.

He is. Oh, he's *far* off this planet.

He's human, and humans are an infection in the body of the living
planet.

 

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 11:28:48 AM UTC+10, Mike Perkins wrote:

On 20/08/2018 02:05, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:14:47 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 16:22:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I know the feeling. Three times in my life I've turned my hobby
into a business. Now, I'm getting ready to begin to start
planning to retire and I'm turning my business into a hobby with
at least one of my hobbies into a potential business. Perhaps it
would be better for the skools to teach hobbies instead of
professions?

Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids
*what* to think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail

Very little of a typical school day is now spent learning anything
genuinely useful.

That does depend how you define "useful". The Daily Mail probably
regrets the disappearance of Latin.

The kids the schools turn out into the world of work nowadays are
mostly only suited to flipping burgers or delivering pizzas.

Which is to say, competing with Cursitor Doom, who couldn't manage
anything more demanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

tells us that 49% of UK's 24-35 year-old have completed some form of
tertiary education, which moves them beyond flipping burgers and
delivering pizzas.

You might think so, but very wrong.

A rather implausible claim, unsupported by any shred of statistical evidence. One has to suspect that you are another Daily telegraph reader who credoulsy soaks up tales of gloom and doom.

> Unfortunately much of UK tertiary education in the past decade or so is in subjects such as media science and equally useless subject that have few opportunities. As a result many do go onto flipping burgers.

It's not the subjects studied that are useless, but rather the people who study them. I've met some perfectly useless (or at best minimally useful) people who seemed to have a good degree in electrical engineering (which also happens to be the subject that Rowan Atkinson got his degrees in, not that any of this study seems to have been of any use to him).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowan_Atkinson

2 years ago I knew a software engineer, who after taking into account
the costs of living away from home, said he was better off working for
McDonalds.

Living rent-free with your parents is cheap.

Admittedly some properly qualified chefs do include the hamburger -
or some version of it - in their repertoire. Julia Child did include
the dish in her Mastering the Art of French Cooking, but Cursitor
Doom wouldn't have known that.

I'm sure even Mr Doom will also have been dragged into seeing Julia &
Julia (2009).

Read the book. Didn't bother to see the film, but the media hype did make it easy for me to replace my worn-out copy of MTAFC.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 12:17:14 PM UTC+10, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"> Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids *what* to
think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail "

You piece of fucking garbage, get off our planet.

What makes jurb think that it's his planet?

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 19:11:31 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"The repair technician usually needs to make one work."

Not me.

You make none of them work? It's rather difficult to stay in business
with a batting average of zero.

Notice that I said "usually". Long ago, I worked for a repair shop
that did warranty work for the local tape recorder and cheap audio
importers. Making 100+ work was what I was doing. I'll give their
factories in Japan credit for being very consistent. When one tape
recorder had a manufacturing problem, it was highly likely that all of
them had the same exact problem. I could look at their inspection
stickers, see who did the work, sort the machines by inspection
sticker, and every one of the machines would have exactly the same
problem. Doing that almost made it profitable to do flat rate
warranty work, which was normally a loss leader in order to get the
more lucrative out of warranty repairs.

However, that was the exception. When I was designing marine radios,
I had great difficulties teaching the difference between an
engineering tech and a repair tech. The repair techs usually
considered it perfectly acceptable to take a prototype run of 10
radios, and "fix" them 10 different ways. It took a bit of effort to
convince them that was a bad idea and that in a production
environment, all the radios should be exactly the same with no
creative substitutions, customization, or selected parts.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 20/08/18 07:57, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Is the Daily Mail leftist, centrist, or rightist? Since Mr Doom seems
to be more to the left, I suggest that he read his news from sources
that are as far to the right as his digestive tract can manage. If
his leftist convictions are still intact after a few months of that,
then he is a true believer.

The Daily Wail has several notable characteristics.

It is right wing (in the 30s it supported Hitler).
It is hardline brexit.
It is aimed at women.
Many of its above the fold headlines are aimed at the
"worried well".
It divides all substances into two categories: "cancer
forming" and "cancer curing".
It is perfectly content to ignore any relevant fact
that gets in the way of a good headline.

One story combined many of those themes. The Wail
bemoaned that a dangerous chemical had been found
in food, and blamed the EU for not banning it.

In reality the EU had banned it 5 years earlier.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 18:05:51 -0700 (PDT), bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:14:47 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 16:22:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I know the feeling. Three times in my life I've turned my hobby into a
business. Now, I'm getting ready to begin to start planning to retire
and I'm turning my business into a hobby with at least one of my hobbies
into a potential business. Perhaps it would be better for the skools to
teach hobbies instead of professions?

Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids *what* to
think rather than how to.

In the US, the skools seem to teach kids how to be better consumers.
What bothers me is not that high skool graduates don't know how to do
anything useful, but rather that they don't want to learn anything new
and that the push towards excellence has been replaced by glorified
mediocrity, where everyone is expected to be "equal". Most of that is
a side effect of "mainstreaming", which like all such programs, has
good and bad points plus the usual unanticipated side effects.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstreaming_(education)>

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?
He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail

Is the Daily Mail leftist, centrist, or rightist? Since Mr Doom seems
to be more to the left, I suggest that he read his news from sources
that are as far to the right as his digestive tract can manage. If
his leftist convictions are still intact after a few months of that,
then he is a true believer.

Very little of a typical school day is now
spent learning anything genuinely useful.

That does depend how you define "useful". The Daily Mail probably
regrets the disappearance of Latin.

One must do something with all the "Classical Education" graduates.

The kids the schools turn out
into the world of work nowadays are mostly only suited to flipping
burgers or delivering pizzas.

Which is to say, competing with Cursitor Doom, who couldn't manage
anything more demanding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment
tells us that 49% of UK's 24-35 year-old have completed some form
of tertiary education, which moves them beyond flipping burgers and
delivering pizzas.

The only reason I attended college was because the US was busy
fighting a war in Viet Nam at the time and I was in danger of getting
drafted into the army. Also, my parents agreed to subsidize my
education. Otherwise, I would probably have gone directly to work or
started a small business after 2 years of college (Junior College as
it was called at the time).

College graduates working in fast food preparation isn't much of a
disgrace. One of my many jobs during early college was manager at a
local 24hr coffee shop. The prime purpose of the restaurant was to
launder money from illicit operations for the local criminal
organizations. Not quite flipping burgers, but close enough. Later,
my perfect timing had me graduating college directly into a small
recession, where the aerospace industry was in the process of
collapsing due to the cancellation of the space race. The best I
could do was find a job fixing CB radios and installing radios in
cement mixers (because all the burger flipping jobs were taken). Like
all such diversions, the job was only temporary. As the economy
recovered, so did I.

Admittedly some properly qualified chefs do include the hamburger
- or some version of it - in their repertoire. Julia Child did include
the dish in her Mastering the Art of French Cooking, but Cursitor
Doom wouldn't have known that.

Assembling hamburgers is not really cooking. Somewhere along the
line, I forgot to learn how to cook. Every attempt was a failure
because I don't read the instructions and wouldn't follow the
instructions anyway. I'm just too creative and never do anything
twice the same way twice. In the few jobs and tasks that require
creativity, ingenuity, and logical thinking, such attributes are
useful. For most everything else, it's potentially dangerous and a
great way to get fired, which is why I'm self-employed.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 20/08/18 02:08, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:35:53 AM UTC+10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 09:56:08 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

I'm an engineer, not a service technician.

Good Lord!! I've only been reading your comments on this group for the
last 20+ years and never really noticed that before! ;-)

Your nym isn't that old. What was it before?

Eeyore.

Out of curiosity, how did you match the monikers?

 

[Clive Arthur]

On 20/08/2018 14:08, Bill Gill wrote:

On 8/19/2018 1:39 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
"'Cetera' (KAY-ter-ah) means 'the rest', so 'and the rest'.  ('O' level
Latin circa 1970)"

Well we pronounce it "Set-er-a" around here. "The rest" sounds right,
closer than what I said. It has been a while since I have paid
attention to things like that. I would just be less unhappy if they
wouldn't use "ect.".

When I was in grade school I was taught that etc. is pronounced
'and so forth'.  Yes, that is what the teacher told us to say
when we saw it.  I never thought it was correct, but what can you
say when the teacher says it?

Bill

I was taught that 'viz' (from Latin videlicet) is pronounced 'namely'.

Cheers
--
Clive

 

[Bill Gill]

On 8/19/2018 1:39 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"'Cetera' (KAY-ter-ah) means 'the rest', so 'and the rest'. ('O' level
Latin circa 1970)"

Well we pronounce it "Set-er-a" around here. "The rest" sounds right, closer than what I said. It has been a while since I have paid attention to things like that. I would just be less unhappy if they wouldn't use "ect.".

When I was in grade school I was taught that etc. is pronounced
'and so forth'. Yes, that is what the teacher told us to say
when we saw it. I never thought it was correct, but what can you
say when the teacher says it?

Bill

 

[Sjouke Burry]

On 20-8-2018 7:07, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 12:17:14 PM UTC+10, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
"> Not sure about the US, but schools in the UK are teaching kids *what* to
think rather than how to.

One wonders how Cursitor Doom found this out?

He's presumably echoing something he read in the Daily Mail "

You piece of fucking garbage, get off our planet.

What makes jurb think that it's his planet?

He uses google mail.
That explains it.