Driver to drive?

[legg]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

I told you older posts were more interesting. Unfortunately, Sally
doesn't live here any more. 2002....a vintage year.

RL

 

[John S]

On 7/6/2016 7:43 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 03:32:37 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:39:27 -0400, krw@attt.bizz Gave us:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:28:28 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 03:56:56 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:

Would be interesting to learn how they estimated that reliability.
If you have a machine that properly aligns the connectors when
plugged, maybe.

The problem is that when it is already under power, which with most
dopey, lazy humans, it already is, it makes little arcs as it connects
and the microinch of Gold goes away and the carbonized conductor... no
longer does.

AlwaysWrong.

You're a goddamned idiot kiethkeithstain. You are a stain on society.
And that stench! Go away, old fucktard.

You're *always* wrong, AlwaysWrong. It's amazing that anyone can be
so consistently wrong.

Not any more. He has set the bar so high that he has become the epitome
of wrong. He is the ceiling of wrong. He cannot be exceeded in wrong.

 

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:43:16 AM UTC+2, legg wrote:

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

I told you older posts were more interesting. Unfortunately, Sally
doesn't live here any more. 2002....a vintage year.

Looking back at the thread, I'm a bit surprised that nobody got onto roll-your-own AC (Blumlein) bridges.

https://www.amazon.com/Coaxial-AC-Bridges-B-Kibble/dp/0852743890

has a section about small precison capacitors. Sadly, my copy (which I'd bought before 2002 ) is at home in Sydney, and I can't remember how much it has to say about measuring them.

It would be hard to get a precision ratio transformer to work well at the sorts of frequencies you'd want to use to measure a 1pF capacitance, but the classic Blumlein centre-tapped transforner bridge would work fine for comparing small capacitors.

In a national standards laboratory they'd be comparing the unknown capacitor with a Thompson-Lampard calculable capacitor

http://cfmetrologie.edpsciences.org/articles/metrology/pdf/2015/01/metrology_metr2015_12001.pdf

It's capacitance depends only on it's length, and typically they measure the length with a laser interferometer.

The Thompson-Lampard theorem was published in 1956, when both the authors were working for the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney (but in Aurons, Provence, France at the moment).

 

[legg]

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 02:24:38 -0700 (PDT), bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:43:16 AM UTC+2, legg wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

I told you older posts were more interesting. Unfortunately, Sally
doesn't live here any more. 2002....a vintage year.

Looking back at the thread, I'm a bit surprised that nobody got onto roll-your-own AC (Blumlein) bridges.

https://www.amazon.com/Coaxial-AC-Bridges-B-Kibble/dp/0852743890

has a section about small precison capacitors. Sadly, my copy (which I'd bought before 2002 ) is at home in Sydney, and I can't remember how much it has to say about measuring them.

It would be hard to get a precision ratio transformer to work well at the sorts of frequencies you'd want to use to measure a 1pF capacitance, but the classic Blumlein centre-tapped transforner bridge would work fine for comparing small capacitors.

In a national standards laboratory they'd be comparing the unknown capacitor with a Thompson-Lampard calculable capacitor

http://cfmetrologie.edpsciences.org/articles/metrology/pdf/2015/01/metrology_metr2015_12001.pdf

It's capacitance depends only on it's length, and typically they measure the length with a laser interferometer.

The Thompson-Lampard theorem was published in 1956, when both the authors were working for the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO).

The old AAD meter (available at that time) exhibits about .01pF
jitter. If all the OP wanted was .01pF resolution, then that might
have been the quickest option.

Sort of takes the fun out of it, however.

RL

 

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 4:00:50 PM UTC+2, legg wrote:

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 02:24:38 -0700 (PDT), bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:43:16 AM UTC+2, legg wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

<snip>

The old AAD meter (available at that time) exhibits about .01pF
jitter. If all the OP wanted was .01pF resolution, then that might
have been the quickest option.

Sort of takes the fun out of it, however.

Sally had designed her own capacitance meter, and really wanted advice on why it wasn't working well. Since she didn't post any details of the circuit, and was worrying about dielectric absorbtion in a polystyrene capacitor, it wasn't the kind of thread that was going to go anywhere useful.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 07/07/2016 02:55 PM, legg wrote:

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

Sort of wondering where you're getting the headers from 2002. The only
archives I'm currently aware of go back only to 2014 or Pre-1991.

RL

Supernews goes back to 2003, and Google way before that. archive.org
also has a bunch of old SED, back to 2003ish.

Where's the pre-1991 stuff?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[legg]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

Sort of wondering where you're getting the headers from 2002. The only
archives I'm currently aware of go back only to 2014 or Pre-1991.

RL

 

[legg]

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:36:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 07/07/2016 02:55 PM, legg wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

Sort of wondering where you're getting the headers from 2002. The only
archives I'm currently aware of go back only to 2014 or Pre-1991.

RL

Supernews goes back to 2003, and Google way before that. archive.org
also has a bunch of old SED, back to 2003ish.

Where's the pre-1991 stuff?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Sorry, I thought I'd corrected that to 2004.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.design/

Have trouble navigating archive.org for anything looking like a
thread-date display. They provide Pre 1991 from the wiseman archive

https://archive.org/details/utzoo-wiseman-usenet-archive

Never did sign into Google. Probably won't. Is this where Whit3rd is
reading old threads?

RL

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 07/07/2016 04:26 PM, legg wrote:

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:36:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 07/07/2016 02:55 PM, legg wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

Sort of wondering where you're getting the headers from 2002. The only
archives I'm currently aware of go back only to 2014 or Pre-1991.

RL

Supernews goes back to 2003, and Google way before that. archive.org
also has a bunch of old SED, back to 2003ish.

Where's the pre-1991 stuff?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Sorry, I thought I'd corrected that to 2004.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.design/

Have trouble navigating archive.org for anything looking like a
thread-date display. They provide Pre 1991 from the wiseman archive

https://archive.org/details/utzoo-wiseman-usenet-archive

Never did sign into Google. Probably won't. Is this where Whit3rd is
reading old threads?

RL

Probably.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 12:25:31 PM UTC-7, legg wrote:

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:36:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:


http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.design/

Have trouble navigating archive.org for anything looking like a
thread-date display. They provide Pre 1991 from the wiseman archive

https://archive.org/details/utzoo-wiseman-usenet-archive

Never did sign into Google. Probably won't. Is this where Whit3rd is
reading old threads?

Yes, I got the thread with a search on Google Groups... not recalling the circumstances
next morning, posted a reply. Noticed the date, tried to un-post, but maybe
that's only a Google thing...

The 'wiseman' artchive sounds nifty, gotta try that...

 

[legg]

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 20:12:03 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 12:25:31 PM UTC-7, legg wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:36:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:


http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.design/

Have trouble navigating archive.org for anything looking like a
thread-date display. They provide Pre 1991 from the wiseman archive

https://archive.org/details/utzoo-wiseman-usenet-archive

Never did sign into Google. Probably won't. Is this where Whit3rd is
reading old threads?

Yes, I got the thread with a search on Google Groups... not recalling the circumstances
next morning, posted a reply. Noticed the date, tried to un-post, but maybe
that's only a Google thing...

The 'wiseman' artchive sounds nifty, gotta try that...

Not user friendly. Double-compressed in varying file organization,
with many anomalies in data within and without individual archives -
every post an individual entity, unsortable by filename as to date or
subject.

It would be real project to reorganize the (~html) contents, as any
automation has to negotiate the anomalies.

RL

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 3:25:31 PM UTC-4, legg wrote:

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:36:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 07/07/2016 02:55 PM, legg wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

Sort of wondering where you're getting the headers from 2002. The only
archives I'm currently aware of go back only to 2014 or Pre-1991.

RL

Supernews goes back to 2003, and Google way before that. archive.org
also has a bunch of old SED, back to 2003ish.

Where's the pre-1991 stuff?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Sorry, I thought I'd corrected that to 2004.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.design/

Have trouble navigating archive.org for anything looking like a
thread-date display. They provide Pre 1991 from the wiseman archive

https://archive.org/details/utzoo-wiseman-usenet-archive

Never did sign into Google. Probably won't. Is this where Whit3rd is
reading old threads?

RL

I went looking for Win's thread on 0.02ff.. found this,

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sci.electronics.design/flVaMyp9fnY/lUwMLY4ithYJ

George H.

 

I've used these before, especially the 2700A:

http://www.andeen-hagerling.com/

Hard to argue with the guys NIST buys secondary standards from...

For those looking for a more practical device...

For fun and giggles, you might like to toy around with FDC1004 or ADC7745/ADC7746

The FDC dev kit is a lot for fun for 49.95/

Steve

 

[legg]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:21:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, September 2, 2002 at 2:02:21 PM UTC-7, sally wrote:
"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@aol.com> wrote in message

With repect to capacitors, ... DA is an effect
you see mainly at low frequencies, so if you make your measurements
quickly, you won't see it.


Since polystyrenes are strongly discouraged in new equipment design, I
haven't bothered to look at how their DA is.

Why?

On material properties, polystyrene and PTFE both look splendid: very low leakage.
For mass production, though, styrene softens above about 100C. That's no good
for a surface mount/reflow soldered component, so it has to be hand-assembled.

PTFE and PPS go over 200C. Tin-silver-copper solder reflows at 217C.

It doesn't help that the original poster was looking for help with
measurement to .001pF, not 0.01pF.

RL

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, July 17, 2016 at 1:13:26 PM UTC-7, DaveC wrote:

http://imgur.com/a/6qeua

(The images of the plug are stills from a video. I don’t have it in my
possession.)

The header measures approx.:
pin dia: 0.6 mm,0.024 in
spacing: 3.85 mm, 0.152 in

It looks like 0.1" spacing 0.025"' square pins, aka 'wire-wrap pins' with
a suitable crimp mating shell. Something like this
<http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/104503-2/A121054-ND/665421>

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:10:31 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Don't update!


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:10:31 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop
Subject: Windows Update changes
From: "RandyM" <rand@yyy.mmm
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 04:59:52 -0500

There will be a big change in Windows Update starting in October 2016 for
W7/8. Everything will be bundled into a single download with no user options
re what to accept. That includes security updates and whatever M$ considers
as "important". All or nothing. Your computer will then be owned by M$. End
of story.

RandyM

I simply block _all_ Windows updates.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I'm looking for work... see my website.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/23/2016 7:54 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:10:31 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:



Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop
Subject: Windows Update changes
From: "RandyM" <rand@yyy.mmm
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 04:59:52 -0500

There will be a big change in Windows Update starting in October 2016 for
W7/8. Everything will be bundled into a single download with no user options
re what to accept. That includes security updates and whatever M$ considers
as "important". All or nothing. Your computer will then be owned by M$. End
of story.

RandyM

I simply block _all_ Windows updates.

For "connected" machines, this can be risky as most updates fix
security problems in the "OS". And, if that machine can talk
to other machines "locally", then it represents a potential beachhead
for malware, malicious probes, etc.

I.e., ONLY this machine talks to the outside world. And, there is
nothing on it; it can be rebuilt in less than 5 minutes (disk failure,
fear of being compromised, etc.) Don't leave anything on the
desktop that you would hate to lose! :>

The "banking laptop" is effectively a read-only disk -- as long
as you remember to power it down before you use it for something
"precious", you are pretty much guaranteed that it is malware free.

 

[Robert Baer]

John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:10:31 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Don't update!

Absolutely. BUT make damn sure that all update options are "set" to
"NO WAY IN HELL".

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Baer wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:10:31 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Don't update!


Absolutely. BUT make damn sure that all update options are "set" to
"NO WAY IN HELL".

And then constantly complain that nothing works right.


--
Subject: Spelling Lesson

The last four letters in American.........I Can
The last four letters in Republican.......I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats

End of lesson. Test to follow in November, 2016

Remember, November is to be set aside as rodent extermination month.