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Anyway, whatever you do make sure the connections are safe. The voltage
of the batteries is safe but the short-circuit current isn't!
They're called "deep cycle". The problem is that the original
batteries are probably AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) batteries, which are
charged to some specified maximum voltage at a given temperature. If
you replace these with a different chemistry battery, such as
lead-acid flooded cells commonly found in automotive and marine
batteries, the charging characteristics and maximum charge voltage
will be different. I'm too lazy to dig out a table for you, but I
think you'll find that they're different. Also, removing the
batteries from the case also removes them from being thermally
connected to whatever temperature sensor is built into the UPS.
Fortunately, you can extend the leads on those and attach them to the
battery box. That's the sensor on the right:
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/APC%20XS-1300/slides/XS-1300-05.html
To make matters worse, the various UPS manufacturers compete with each
other for the longest runtimes. To achieve high numbers, they charge
the batteries with an EOC (end of charge) voltage to be as close to
maximum as possible. This is not good for the life of the battery,
especially when changing battery chemistry. They also charge as
quickly as possible, which is yet another reason for relatively short
(5-8 year) battery life in a UPS. Fortunately, when going from the
stock battery, to a much larger battery, the lower relative charge
rate will help extend the battery life.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Phil Hobbs wrote:
SmartUPSes, my bad.
Some of their models can regulate a high voltage without going to
battery, and some can also boost a low voltage without going to battery,
but it takes a long phone call to find the guy who can tell you which
models do it because they don't seem to print specs like that anywhere.
All the APC use what they call "SLA suspended electrolyte
leakproof" batteries, which I take to mean Gel Cell.
The Gel Cell is the only technology to use for a "deep discharge"
application, AGM is not, suffering significant lifetime degradation
at discharges greater than 60%. AGM is for peak power applications,
not deep discharge. Gel Cell is also the type most sensitive to the
charging profile, AGM is more forgiving. AGM is good for things
like inverters for motor drives or incandescent loads with high
start up surge requirements, but, like you say, 45% THD is garbage
in that kind of application.
Phil Hobbs wrote:
SmartUPSes, my bad.
Some of their models can regulate a high voltage without going to
battery, and some can also boost a low voltage without going to battery,
but it takes a long phone call to find the guy who can tell you which
models do it because they don't seem to print specs like that anywhere.
On 01/19/2016 08:56 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:
SmartUPSes, my bad.
Some of their models can regulate a high voltage without going to
battery, and some can also boost a low voltage without going to
battery, but it takes a long phone call to find the guy who can tell
you which models do it because they don't seem to print specs like
that anywhere.
The ones that have the tap switching have LEDs on the front to tell
you about it, and a decal on the bottom telling you what the LEDs
mean.
IBM eServer 750T and 1000T models do, and they're nearly free on eBay
because nobody knows they're re rebadged SmartUPSes.
Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 01/19/2016 08:56 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:
SmartUPSes, my bad.
Some of their models can regulate a high voltage without going to
battery, and some can also boost a low voltage without going to
battery, but it takes a long phone call to find the guy who can tell
you which models do it because they don't seem to print specs like
that anywhere.
The ones that have the tap switching have LEDs on the front to tell
you about it, and a decal on the bottom telling you what the LEDs
mean.
IBM eServer 750T and 1000T models do, and they're nearly free on eBay
because nobody knows they're re rebadged SmartUPSes.
According to the guy I found at APC (4 years ago) some of the plain
models with no LED's can do it, but there's no indication except the
unusual suffix in the model name which I've forgotten. Actually I wrote
down the details somewhere but can't find it.
This is sometimes referred to as "brownout protection".
However, there also exist "online" types of UPS where the AC is always
transformed down and rectified to battery voltage then converted back
to AC at the proper output voltage. Those types of UPS have the same
function. No idea if APC has many models like that, but e.g. Powerware
and MGE UPSes often are "online".
However, that's not why I mentioned it. The way it works is to run
the switcher continuously and in phase with the AC input power. The
voltage from the AC line is always slightly higher than that from the
battery powered switcher section. This way, the AC line is providing
almost all the power to the load, with the battery powered section
just idling along. When the AC disappears, the battery powered
section is already switched on, is running in phase, and is active
with zero transfer time. When it worked, it was fairly good, if you
didn't mind the steel case buzzing at 60 Hz or the heating and loss of
efficiency running the UPS full time.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
However, that's not why I mentioned it. The way it works is to run
the switcher continuously and in phase with the AC input power. The
voltage from the AC line is always slightly higher than that from the
battery powered switcher section. This way, the AC line is providing
almost all the power to the load, with the battery powered section
just idling along. When the AC disappears, the battery powered
section is already switched on, is running in phase, and is active
with zero transfer time. When it worked, it was fairly good, if you
didn't mind the steel case buzzing at 60 Hz or the heating and loss of
efficiency running the UPS full time.
When I wired up the APC 1000 my plan was to put it on the line only for
part of the time (manually or using a clock) just to keep the big
batteries topped up, and to connect it only in the case of a prolonged
power outage. Over here, energy is expensive and the line is very
reliable, it actually is hard to maintain a UPS with an MTBF higher than
that of the line so systems behind a UPS often experience more power
failures due to UPS defects or maintenance than due to a power break.
However, once it fails it can remain off for hours, and I thought it
might be a good idea to have some backup power on standby.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the APC SmartUPS 1000 (and some other
APC models as well) CANNOT be switched ON when the mains has failed!!
It has to be running all the time and then it will take over when the
mains fails, you cannot use it as a portable power source that can be
switched on when it is already charged... bummer.
On 01/20/2016 04:23 AM, Rob wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
However, that's not why I mentioned it. The way it works is to run
the switcher continuously and in phase with the AC input power. The
voltage from the AC line is always slightly higher than that from the
battery powered switcher section. This way, the AC line is providing
almost all the power to the load, with the battery powered section
just idling along. When the AC disappears, the battery powered
section is already switched on, is running in phase, and is active
with zero transfer time. When it worked, it was fairly good, if you
didn't mind the steel case buzzing at 60 Hz or the heating and loss of
efficiency running the UPS full time.
When I wired up the APC 1000 my plan was to put it on the line only for
part of the time (manually or using a clock) just to keep the big
batteries topped up, and to connect it only in the case of a prolonged
power outage. Over here, energy is expensive and the line is very
reliable, it actually is hard to maintain a UPS with an MTBF higher than
that of the line so systems behind a UPS often experience more power
failures due to UPS defects or maintenance than due to a power break.
However, once it fails it can remain off for hours, and I thought it
might be a good idea to have some backup power on standby.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the APC SmartUPS 1000 (and some other
APC models as well) CANNOT be switched ON when the mains has failed!!
It has to be running all the time and then it will take over when the
mains fails, you cannot use it as a portable power source that can be
switched on when it is already charged... bummer.
Wouldn't help for that anyway--even unloaded, it'll only run half an
hour or so.
When I wired up the APC 1000 my plan was to put it on the line only for
part of the time (manually or using a clock) just to keep the big
batteries topped up, and to connect it only in the case of a prolonged
power outage. Over here, energy is expensive and the line is very
reliable, it actually is hard to maintain a UPS with an MTBF higher than
that of the line so systems behind a UPS often experience more power
failures due to UPS defects or maintenance than due to a power break.
However, once it fails it can remain off for hours, and I thought it
might be a good idea to have some backup power on standby.
Unfortunately, it turned out that the APC SmartUPS 1000 (and some other
APC models as well) CANNOT be switched ON when the mains has failed!!
It has to be running all the time and then it will take over when the
mains fails, you cannot use it as a portable power source that can be
switched on when it is already charged... bummer.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Good luck.
Ok I was not the original poster, just someone who has tried the same
thing in the past. But I see you have calculated the case of the original
poster an I'm sure he will read that.
It can often be wise to replace it while it still works, because the cost
will be recovered through less use of energy (especially here).
Unfortunately, the expected lifespan of household equipment decreases
so quickly over the years that it often happens that 20 year old stuff is
still working today, while new equipment bought 5-10 years ago is
already defective beyond repair. That means once you enter that cycle
you have to replace again and again...
It can often be wise to replace it while it still works, because the cost
will be recovered through less use of energy (especially here).
Yep. That's the theory. However, I'm not so sure. Electricity is
still quite cheap.
Unfortunately, the expected lifespan of household equipment decreases
so quickly over the years that it often happens that 20 year old stuff is
still working today, while new equipment bought 5-10 years ago is
already defective beyond repair. That means once you enter that cycle
you have to replace again and again...
Yep. It is now possible to computer design a product for a specific
lifetime. Simple component cost reduction does the most to reduce
product life. Lack of repair parts and facilities does the rest.
Planet 9:
http://www.caltech.edu/news/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-real-ninth-planet-49523
Planet Nine, that's a great name!
On 21/01/2016 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Planet 9:
http://www.caltech.edu/news/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-real-ninth-planet-49523
Planet Nine, that's a great name!
But we all know it should be named 'Rupert' - of course we'd need to
re-instate Pluto to make Rupert the tenth....
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Grebulons
Cheers
Planet 9:
http://www.caltech.edu/news/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-real-ninth-planet-49523
On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 2:24:28 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Planet 9:
http://www.caltech.edu/news/caltech-researchers-find-evidence-real-ninth-planet-49523
I had just been thinking about another planet orbiting the sun being the cause of that 'Dyson Sphere' around KIC 8462852. Maybe something like a binary planet or a bunch of moons and the occultations acting like a Foucault knife edge on the star. The planet's orbit around the sun would be really slow holding it's position but the moons' orbits would cause all the weird dimming periods. I wonder if the proposed orbit of this new planet and KIC 8462852 intersect.