Driver to drive?

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:26:08 GMT, om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen of sci.electronics.design, the message you are
replying to is a part of an ongoing campaign to disrupt the whole of
sfnet, the Finnish-language Usenet hierarchy, by means of cross-
posting Finnish-language garbage messages to other hierarchies.

Several bots are currently being run to try to remove these messages,
but unfortunately it is quicker to randomly generate than to find and
then remove messages.

The users of sfnet would much appreciate if you do not post followups
to these messages (specially cross-posting to the sfnet hierarchy),
the original garbage messages will be removed shortly. Thank you.

Since I know of no valid sfnet posters to S.E.D, in Agent v4.2 I
killfile on... Newsgroups: {^sfnet.*}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

 

[krw]

In article <3borj41d16scak476udpq3ofvs34sdb178@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...>

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:42:55 -0800, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <MPG.23a72548c1ca82ce9896ee@news.individual.net>,
krw@att.zzzzzzzzz says...
In article <MPG.23a76baff80d79d39896c7@172.16.0.1>,
paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk says...
In article <MPG.23a706ae1955768d9896ec@news.individual.net>,
krw@att.zzzzzzzzz says...
In article <8f4bbb1b-c188-4ede-b2de-
f406e934aaaa@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, pomerado@hotmail.com
says...
On Dec 7, 11:46 am, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:01:23 +0000, John Devereux

j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
A hardware top assembly could be 28A346-3B, where -3 is a version
(literally the "dash number") and B is the rev. This is basic
aerospace notation.
...
like that. It keeps things together.

Everything is formally released, archived, backed up. 10 years later,
we know exactly what was built when, and can build exact copies if we
need to.

John
Providing that you still have a computer that can read 5.25" disks.
Well, genius, most are smart enough to migrate their business
critical data to new systems when the old get replaced.
Migrating code for tools no longer manufactured/sold actually means
that the simpler and cost effective solution for some markets is
actually to archive complete computer systems as changing the tools
means revalidation/certification. Even if you could get the new versions
of tools to work with newer computers/operating systems/etc..
No one specified code, though that is a bigger problem. How much
bigger depends on the tools (another vote for VHDL vs. schematic,
IMO).

There is no point archiving data that is in 90% of the time (or more)
anything other than plain text, without the tools to read it, even if
it is just to print out new copies.


Not so. I once was called to a new client. The new design wasn't what
they tasked me with (but that happened immediately after this initial
job ...). They were way behind schedule, trade show coming up, so the
only avenue to save the bacon was to gussy up an old system. A really,
really old one. So I plunged in. Later in the day I presented my
findings to the CTO. Found out that a math function was completely
"missing" on a board where it definitely should have been. "What?!!" He
turned pale. Now came the real issue. This board hadn't been touched in
a decade or so, the SW guy was long gone but we managed to find him in a
phone book. Whew! Next night he agreed to come in. Luckily he brought a
stone-age compiler and computer that was able to read in the source
code. The reason we couldn't read any of the archives was that it needed
to be done under CP/M. I almost couldn't believe it. If they hadn't
archived those ancient files the trade show would have been gone and the
CEO mad as hell.


We do archive tools to a server, which gets weekly backups. And we
rolled all our old DOS PADS jobs forward into the newer Windows format
before we retired the DOS machines.

Do test the entire process on every OS release and hardware
upgrade?

We also release duplicate PDFs of drawings in proprietary formats, so
that anyone can see them, roughly forever.

That's the minimum that should be done. I'll have to see what
we're doing along those lines. At least there is a manual path
back from "disaster".

 

[Joerg]

Paul Carpenter wrote:

In article <C2k%k.6422$hc1.2452@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <MPG.23a72548c1ca82ce9896ee@news.individual.net>,
krw@att.zzzzzzzzz says...
In article <MPG.23a76baff80d79d39896c7@172.16.0.1>,
paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk says...
In article <MPG.23a706ae1955768d9896ec@news.individual.net>,
krw@att.zzzzzzzzz says...
In article <8f4bbb1b-c188-4ede-b2de-
f406e934aaaa@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, pomerado@hotmail.com
says...
On Dec 7, 11:46 am, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:01:23 +0000, John Devereux

j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
A hardware top assembly could be 28A346-3B, where -3 is a version
(literally the "dash number") and B is the rev. This is basic
aerospace notation.
...
like that. It keeps things together.

Everything is formally released, archived, backed up. 10 years later,
we know exactly what was built when, and can build exact copies if we
need to.

John
Providing that you still have a computer that can read 5.25" disks.
Well, genius, most are smart enough to migrate their business
critical data to new systems when the old get replaced.
Migrating code for tools no longer manufactured/sold actually means
that the simpler and cost effective solution for some markets is
actually to archive complete computer systems as changing the tools
means revalidation/certification. Even if you could get the new versions
of tools to work with newer computers/operating systems/etc..
No one specified code, though that is a bigger problem. How much
bigger depends on the tools (another vote for VHDL vs. schematic,
IMO).
There is no point archiving data that is in 90% of the time (or more)
anything other than plain text, without the tools to read it, even if
it is just to print out new copies.

Not so. I once was called to a new client. The new design wasn't what
they tasked me with (but that happened immediately after this initial
job ...). They were way behind schedule, trade show coming up, so the
only avenue to save the bacon was to gussy up an old system. A really,
really old one. So I plunged in. Later in the day I presented my
findings to the CTO. Found out that a math function was completely
"missing" on a board where it definitely should have been. "What?!!" He
turned pale. Now came the real issue. This board hadn't been touched in
a decade or so, the SW guy was long gone but we managed to find him in a
phone book. Whew! Next night he agreed to come in. Luckily he brought a
stone-age compiler and computer that was able to read in the source
code. The reason we couldn't read any of the archives was that it needed
to be done under CP/M. I almost couldn't believe it. If they hadn't
archived those ancient files the trade show would have been gone and the
CEO mad as hell.

Well actually if you think about you have proved my point, that the
customer was lucky that SOMEBODY had archived the tools and systems
otherwise the data was almost useless.

It would not have been useless. I would have searched and searched until
the old SW tool and a contractor with the necessary skills are found.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:04:34 -0800, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <C2k%k.6422$hc1.2452@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
[snip]

Well actually if you think about you have proved my point, that the
customer was lucky that SOMEBODY had archived the tools and systems
otherwise the data was almost useless.


It would not have been useless. I would have searched and searched until
the old SW tool and a contractor with the necessary skills are found.

Counting on old SW tools running on a modern PC, with who knows what
variant of Wimpows, is very dangerous.

While I do maintain archives in native SW language, I also archive
device model and symbol libraries (text), netlists (text) and PDF
versions of all schematics.

I would hate to have to re-enter such stuff into a new SW, but I have
done it... like some ancient SDT III stuff for which the symbol
libraries went bye-bye :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:11:09 -0600, krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:

In article <3borj41d16scak476udpq3ofvs34sdb178@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:42:55 -0800, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <MPG.23a72548c1ca82ce9896ee@news.individual.net>,
krw@att.zzzzzzzzz says...
In article <MPG.23a76baff80d79d39896c7@172.16.0.1>,
paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk says...
In article <MPG.23a706ae1955768d9896ec@news.individual.net>,
krw@att.zzzzzzzzz says...
In article <8f4bbb1b-c188-4ede-b2de-
f406e934aaaa@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, pomerado@hotmail.com
says...
On Dec 7, 11:46 am, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:01:23 +0000, John Devereux

j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
A hardware top assembly could be 28A346-3B, where -3 is a version
(literally the "dash number") and B is the rev. This is basic
aerospace notation.
...
like that. It keeps things together.

Everything is formally released, archived, backed up. 10 years later,
we know exactly what was built when, and can build exact copies if we
need to.

John
Providing that you still have a computer that can read 5.25" disks.
Well, genius, most are smart enough to migrate their business
critical data to new systems when the old get replaced.
Migrating code for tools no longer manufactured/sold actually means
that the simpler and cost effective solution for some markets is
actually to archive complete computer systems as changing the tools
means revalidation/certification. Even if you could get the new versions
of tools to work with newer computers/operating systems/etc..
No one specified code, though that is a bigger problem. How much
bigger depends on the tools (another vote for VHDL vs. schematic,
IMO).

There is no point archiving data that is in 90% of the time (or more)
anything other than plain text, without the tools to read it, even if
it is just to print out new copies.


Not so. I once was called to a new client. The new design wasn't what
they tasked me with (but that happened immediately after this initial
job ...). They were way behind schedule, trade show coming up, so the
only avenue to save the bacon was to gussy up an old system. A really,
really old one. So I plunged in. Later in the day I presented my
findings to the CTO. Found out that a math function was completely
"missing" on a board where it definitely should have been. "What?!!" He
turned pale. Now came the real issue. This board hadn't been touched in
a decade or so, the SW guy was long gone but we managed to find him in a
phone book. Whew! Next night he agreed to come in. Luckily he brought a
stone-age compiler and computer that was able to read in the source
code. The reason we couldn't read any of the archives was that it needed
to be done under CP/M. I almost couldn't believe it. If they hadn't
archived those ancient files the trade show would have been gone and the
CEO mad as hell.


We do archive tools to a server, which gets weekly backups. And we
rolled all our old DOS PADS jobs forward into the newer Windows format
before we retired the DOS machines.

Do test the entire process on every OS release and hardware
upgrade?

No. Whenever the tools change, we dump another set into the M:\TOOLS
folder, where the M-drive is our library server. That's probably
enough to untange the mess if we really need to go back and rebuild an
ancient software product.

All my assembly stuff uses batch files and programs that run under DOS
or the Windows command line. That includes a few homebrew things that
we have the source code for. So far, I've been able to rebuild 10-12
year old stuff with no problems.

I won't let any of my guys use tools that we can't archive and be
reasonably sure we can run a decade or two into the future. If they
use a VCS, each formal release must be a set of clean files, all on
its own, independent of the VCS. And the next rev must start from
those released files, not from what the VCS thought the last formal
release was. KISS.

John

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:04:34 -0800, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <C2k%k.6422$hc1.2452@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
[snip]
Well actually if you think about you have proved my point, that the
customer was lucky that SOMEBODY had archived the tools and systems
otherwise the data was almost useless.

It would not have been useless. I would have searched and searched until
the old SW tool and a contractor with the necessary skills are found.

Counting on old SW tools running on a modern PC, with who knows what
variant of Wimpows, is very dangerous.

Nope. All the DOS stuff I still need does run on all machines here. Of
course there is no Vista in this here consulting office.

Other trick: I recently installed Sun VirtualBox. That allows multiple
virtual machines. If the Romans had any operating system even that would
probably run. I tried Linux on it and when clicking that tab the whole
Windows PC feels like a Linux PC. Nice thing is, after some tricks you
can effortlessly scoot back and forth between OS'es and even copy-paste
across platforms.

So far the only thing that presented a bump in the road to backward
compatibility was that old Borland runtime bug. But there is a massaging
routine you can send your *.exe through that will fix it even if you
don't have the source code for a re-compile.

While I do maintain archives in native SW language, I also archive
device model and symbol libraries (text), netlists (text) and PDF
versions of all schematics.

Same here.

I would hate to have to re-enter such stuff into a new SW, but I have
done it... like some ancient SDT III stuff for which the symbol
libraries went bye-bye :-(

You mean, you "lost" the symbol libraries?

When I have my druthers I might fire up ye olde SDT-III again. It was
one of the best products since sliced bread.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Joel Koltner]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:uh6tj41eru4k0e0l9rgqi34k0cmr2fm5bl@4ax.com...

I won't let any of my guys use tools that we can't archive and be
reasonably sure we can run a decade or two into the future.

I think that rules out most Microsoft compilers?

On Windows Vista, nothing prior to Visual Studio 2005 is officially
supported... although it turns out that Visual Studio 6 from 1998 will 99%
work with very minor workarounds. Of course, those workarounds are not found
on Microsoft's web site :-( ...but Google knows where they are.

If they
use a VCS, each formal release must be a set of clean files, all on
its own, independent of the VCS. And the next rev must start from
those released files, not from what the VCS thought the last formal
release was. KISS.

That's an entirely reasonable process that I doubt anyone would object to. I
believe in "management by interfaces" -- use whatever tools you feel like, but
when it comes time to release, we have a well-defined "interface" that says
what your code has to do... or, in your case, how the code needs to be built.

---Joel

 

[David Lesher]

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> writes:

On 2008-11-15, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

POTS lines are loop start and no-loop stop. If i am hearing a
longwinded ad that interferes with what i wish to do, i just pop the
jack out of the wall for a few seconds. The call has been ended.

I've seen some that would only terminate the call if the caller hangs up.
this feature would allow the called party to hang up one handset and then
pick up in a different part of the house.

The calling party has rapid disconnect. He hangs up and everything falls
down.

At the far end, well... The behaviour varies widely with different kinds
of switches in the terminating [i.e. called] office.

In an old Strodger CO it might never disconnect at all. [1] This was
exploited by bank robbers; they'd call all the numbers at a bank from pay
phones, leave them off hook and no one could call the cops when they came
in the door. That's one reason banks would have an unlisted number as
well.

Other switches may time out in a few seconds, tens of seconds, or a minute
or two.

You can have absolute control; if you have ISDN. It gave you signaling
and supervision not reliant on Dark Ages pulsing DC loops. Alas, the
Bells spent many many millions deploying ISDN and even more making it
undesirable for consumers.

2600 Hz is unlikely to do anything any more; there is no analog trunkage
left in the country, save a few museum pieces. ["Trunkage" has a meaning
here -- it's switch to switch, not switch to enduser.]

SIT tones work only if the caller is looking for them, and he hangs
up.

I do like the "please wait; your call is valuable to us...." approach.


1] Irving Texas, 1975. I was trying to call the local-yokel cab company
but.....
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

 

[John Devereux]

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:04:34 -0800, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <C2k%k.6422$hc1.2452@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
[snip]
Well actually if you think about you have proved my point, that
the customer was lucky that SOMEBODY had archived the tools and
systems
otherwise the data was almost useless.

It would not have been useless. I would have searched and searched
until the old SW tool and a contractor with the necessary skills
are found.

Counting on old SW tools running on a modern PC, with who knows what
variant of Wimpows, is very dangerous.


Nope. All the DOS stuff I still need does run on all machines here. Of
course there is no Vista in this here consulting office.

Other trick: I recently installed Sun VirtualBox. That allows multiple
virtual machines. If the Romans had any operating system even that
would probably run. I tried Linux on it and when clicking that tab the
whole Windows PC feels like a Linux PC. Nice thing is, after some
tricks you can effortlessly scoot back and forth between OS'es and
even copy-paste across platforms.

VirtualBox is great. I use it "the other way round", i.e. linux host,
windows guest(s). I do all my "windows" development and testing on it
(Visual C++). You can also have all the different windows variants
installed as separate images for software testing. When you have
finished testing, just roll it back to the virginal "snapshot" for
next time.

[...]

--

John Devereux

 

[bud--]

DaveC wrote:

This is a partial wiring diagram for an early 80's (West) German guillotine
paper cutter:

http://freefilehosting.net/show/42l0i

The goal of this circuit is to energize an electromagnetic clutch coil (m27)
that takes rotational energy from a flywheel to do a task (bring down the
knife blade). This circuit is currently not working.

This machine has no ICs. There are some monolithic rectifier bridges and
discrete transistors (the common symbol for which I cannot find *one* in the
diagram), and plenty of passives.

The transformer (m) primary center tap is connected to 24vdc. Do I interpret
this correctly that the primary is run by a switched dc voltage? (This on a
machine that runs on 3-phase 245vac.) Why?

Looks like the transformer must run switch-mode. The clutch is 42V while
the rest of the circuit is 24V - may be why a transformer is used.

I don't see any connection that can get to ground on the transformer
primary. Everything looks like it goes to 24+. Could be the
"Transistors?" mount on, and connect to, a grounded surface - not shown.
(That would give the "Transistors?" 4 leads.). "??" is the switch-mode
drive? Would think it also would need a ground - maybe not shown?

Where parts are about all identified it seems strange the blocks with
triangles and "??" have no identification at all.

I can say from experience that other machines of this same manufacturer use a
voltage derived directly from the 3-phase input to drive the electromagnetic
clutch. Why use a switched voltage, I cannot understand.

The manufacturer may want all of the control to be low voltage?

Is the triangle within a square symbol some sort of odd representation of a
transistor? And the "arrow thing" that feeds them? Ideas?

================================= =
My dipsiht news provider apparently no longer allows crossposting. Not
knowing which newsgroup the OP watches this is posted on all 3
newsgroups. Sorry.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

bud-- wrote:

DaveC wrote:
This is a partial wiring diagram for an early 80's (West) German
guillotine paper cutter:

http://freefilehosting.net/show/42l0i

The goal of this circuit is to energize an electromagnetic clutch coil
(m27) that takes rotational energy from a flywheel to do a task (bring
down the knife blade). This circuit is currently not working.
This machine has no ICs. There are some monolithic rectifier bridges
and discrete transistors (the common symbol for which I cannot find
*one* in the diagram), and plenty of passives.
The transformer (m) primary center tap is connected to 24vdc. Do I
interpret this correctly that the primary is run by a switched dc
voltage? (This on a machine that runs on 3-phase 245vac.) Why?

Looks like the transformer must run switch-mode. The clutch is 42V while
the rest of the circuit is 24V - may be why a transformer is used.

I don't see any connection that can get to ground on the transformer
primary. Everything looks like it goes to 24+. Could be the
"Transistors?" mount on, and connect to, a grounded surface - not shown.
(That would give the "Transistors?" 4 leads.). "??" is the switch-mode
drive? Would think it also would need a ground - maybe not shown?

Where parts are about all identified it seems strange the blocks with
triangles and "??" have no identification at all.


I can say from experience that other machines of this same
manufacturer use a voltage derived directly from the 3-phase input to
drive the electromagnetic clutch. Why use a switched voltage, I cannot
understand.

The manufacturer may want all of the control to be low voltage?


Is the triangle within a square symbol some sort of odd representation
of a transistor? And the "arrow thing" that feeds them? Ideas?


================================= =
My dipsiht news provider apparently no longer allows crossposting. Not
knowing which newsgroup the OP watches this is posted on all 3
newsgroups. Sorry.

I think the circuit with the arrows is an astable multivibrator, the
circuit following it with the triangles are the drivers for the
transformer and following that a bridge rectifier.

--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"Š

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

"Follow The Money" ;-P

 

[David Brown]

John Devereux wrote:

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:04:34 -0800, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Paul Carpenter wrote:
In article <C2k%k.6422$hc1.2452@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
[snip]
Well actually if you think about you have proved my point, that
the customer was lucky that SOMEBODY had archived the tools and
systems
otherwise the data was almost useless.

It would not have been useless. I would have searched and searched
until the old SW tool and a contractor with the necessary skills
are found.
Counting on old SW tools running on a modern PC, with who knows what
variant of Wimpows, is very dangerous.

Nope. All the DOS stuff I still need does run on all machines here. Of
course there is no Vista in this here consulting office.

Other trick: I recently installed Sun VirtualBox. That allows multiple
virtual machines. If the Romans had any operating system even that
would probably run. I tried Linux on it and when clicking that tab the
whole Windows PC feels like a Linux PC. Nice thing is, after some
tricks you can effortlessly scoot back and forth between OS'es and
even copy-paste across platforms.

VirtualBox is great. I use it "the other way round", i.e. linux host,
windows guest(s). I do all my "windows" development and testing on it
(Visual C++). You can also have all the different windows variants
installed as separate images for software testing. When you have
finished testing, just roll it back to the virginal "snapshot" for
next time.

I use both Windows and Linux guests in VirtualBox (on a Windows host).
If you've got two Ethernet ports on your host PC, a cunning trick is to
set up a bridge on the host with the second Ethernet port, and connect
the port physically to your network. Then make host interfaces in
VirtualBox and connect them to the bridge, and use them instead of NAT
to your host. It gives you a much more direct networking connection.

 

[Robert Baer]

David Lesher wrote:

Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> writes:


On 2008-11-15, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:


POTS lines are loop start and no-loop stop. If i am hearing a
longwinded ad that interferes with what i wish to do, i just pop the
jack out of the wall for a few seconds. The call has been ended.


I've seen some that would only terminate the call if the caller hangs up.
this feature would allow the called party to hang up one handset and then
pick up in a different part of the house.



The calling party has rapid disconnect. He hangs up and everything falls
down.

At the far end, well... The behaviour varies widely with different kinds
of switches in the terminating [i.e. called] office.

In an old Strodger CO it might never disconnect at all. [1] This was
exploited by bank robbers; they'd call all the numbers at a bank from pay
phones, leave them off hook and no one could call the cops when they came
in the door. That's one reason banks would have an unlisted number as
well.

Other switches may time out in a few seconds, tens of seconds, or a minute
or two.

You can have absolute control; if you have ISDN. It gave you signaling
and supervision not reliant on Dark Ages pulsing DC loops. Alas, the
Bells spent many many millions deploying ISDN and even more making it
undesirable for consumers.

2600 Hz is unlikely to do anything any more; there is no analog trunkage
left in the country, save a few museum pieces. ["Trunkage" has a meaning
here -- it's switch to switch, not switch to enduser.]

SIT tones work only if the caller is looking for them, and he hangs
up.

I do like the "please wait; your call is valuable to us...." approach.


1] Irving Texas, 1975. I was trying to call the local-yokel cab company
but.....
The majority of the spamcallers hang up almost immediately, and

instantly if (somehow) they detect an answering machine.
So somehing a bit more "active" than an answering meching response is
required.

 

[John Devereux]

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> writes:

John Devereux wrote:
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes:

[...]

Other trick: I recently installed Sun VirtualBox. That allows multiple
virtual machines. If the Romans had any operating system even that
would probably run. I tried Linux on it and when clicking that tab the
whole Windows PC feels like a Linux PC. Nice thing is, after some
tricks you can effortlessly scoot back and forth between OS'es and
even copy-paste across platforms.

VirtualBox is great. I use it "the other way round", i.e. linux host,
windows guest(s). I do all my "windows" development and testing on it
(Visual C++). You can also have all the different windows variants
installed as separate images for software testing. When you have
finished testing, just roll it back to the virginal "snapshot" for
next time.


I use both Windows and Linux guests in VirtualBox (on a Windows
host). If you've got two Ethernet ports on your host PC, a cunning
trick is to set up a bridge on the host with the second Ethernet port,
and connect the port physically to your network. Then make host
interfaces in VirtualBox and connect them to the bridge, and use them
instead of NAT to your host. It gives you a much more direct
networking connection.

I have not needed to delve into the networking yet - everything seems
to work fine as it is. I did create a shared folder link so that my
linux home directory appears as a drive letter in VirtualBox.

I was surprised how good the hardware support is. It creats some kind
of "virtual" USB controller, so you can use any USB device with the
manufacturers drivers.

I also use the "headless" mode where you can connect using a remote
desktop ("rdesktop") session. So I can be working in the office, then
move to the "lab" machine and carry on using that same session.

--

John Devereux

 

[David Brown]

John Devereux wrote:

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> writes:

John Devereux wrote:
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes:


[...]

Other trick: I recently installed Sun VirtualBox. That allows multiple
virtual machines. If the Romans had any operating system even that
would probably run. I tried Linux on it and when clicking that tab the
whole Windows PC feels like a Linux PC. Nice thing is, after some
tricks you can effortlessly scoot back and forth between OS'es and
even copy-paste across platforms.
VirtualBox is great. I use it "the other way round", i.e. linux host,
windows guest(s). I do all my "windows" development and testing on it
(Visual C++). You can also have all the different windows variants
installed as separate images for software testing. When you have
finished testing, just roll it back to the virginal "snapshot" for
next time.

I use both Windows and Linux guests in VirtualBox (on a Windows
host). If you've got two Ethernet ports on your host PC, a cunning
trick is to set up a bridge on the host with the second Ethernet port,
and connect the port physically to your network. Then make host
interfaces in VirtualBox and connect them to the bridge, and use them
instead of NAT to your host. It gives you a much more direct
networking connection.

I have not needed to delve into the networking yet - everything seems
to work fine as it is. I did create a shared folder link so that my
linux home directory appears as a drive letter in VirtualBox.

A networking setup like mine is particularly useful if the host is
windows. Linux has vastly more networking tools, so my VirtualBox setup
lets me run these in a virtual Linux box (the NAT networking can't pass
anything other than UDP and TCP/IP packets - no pings, arpings, or other
protocols). It is also useful if you want to access the virtual machine
directly on the network from other machines.

I was surprised how good the hardware support is. It creats some kind
of "virtual" USB controller, so you can use any USB device with the
manufacturers drivers.

I've found it can be a little unstable at times, but apart from that it
is *very* useful using USB devices in the virtual machines. It's
particularly useful if the drivers for the devices are not too great, or
have conflicting versions, or if you want to test installation routines.
Just make a snapshot of the virtual machine before they are connected,
then try it out. If it doesn't work, you can quickly roll back.

I also use the "headless" mode where you can connect using a remote
desktop ("rdesktop") session. So I can be working in the office, then
move to the "lab" machine and carry on using that same session.

 

[John Devereux]

David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> writes:


[...]

A networking setup like mine is particularly useful if the host is
windows. Linux has vastly more networking tools, so my VirtualBox
setup lets me run these in a virtual Linux box (the NAT networking
can't pass anything other than UDP and TCP/IP packets - no pings,
arpings, or other protocols). It is also useful if you want to access
the virtual machine directly on the network from other machines.

I was surprised how good the hardware support is. It creats some kind
of "virtual" USB controller, so you can use any USB device with the
manufacturers drivers.


I've found it can be a little unstable at times, but apart from that
it is *very* useful using USB devices in the virtual machines. It's
particularly useful if the drivers for the devices are not too great,
or have conflicting versions, or if you want to test installation
routines. Just make a snapshot of the virtual machine before they are
connected, then try it out. If it doesn't work, you can quickly roll
back.

Also I don't feel the need to run AV software on the Windows VM, or
keep it continuously updated. Although *theoretically* still needed, I
don't do much browsing or read email from Windows (and when I do it is
with firefox). So that in itself speeds things up enormously.


[...]


--

John Devereux

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:22:26 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:23:41 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:


On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:45:49 -0500, T <kd1s.nospam@cox.nospam.net
wrote:



In article <2_Wdnd2k15zKfILUnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@posted.localnet>,
robertbaer@localnet.com says...


Jim Thompson wrote:



On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:58:51 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:




Jim Thompson wrote:



On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:16:39 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:





Robert Baer wrote:




Robert Baer wrote:





Prelim specs:
1) Plugs into phone line, phone plugs into the black box.
2) Black box records all possible info concerning incoming calls for
later viewing and evidence gathering.
3) If incoming call is not in (programmable) list, then the caller
hears the 3 magic tones as loud as possible followed by a message
delivered s.l.o.w.l.y. "The number you have dialed is not active" and
(options) immediately hang up, OR forward call WITH CID info to a
provided number (say police non-emergency or FBI).
4) If call is in list, then the connected phone rings (call
"forwarded" to it).
5) Memory allows storage of at least 100 incoming SpamCalls per day,
say minimum of 500 total.
Is there anything like this on the market?
If such a device was designed, what would be the estimated sales price?

The sooner i can get one of these, the better.
Marketeers are driving me nuts.

Hello?
When can i buy even a prototype?


Be patient ;-)

...Jim Thompson

OK.
Be advised that the majority of SPAMcalls "id" as "UUU UNKNOWN
CALLER" or as "PPP PRIVATE CALLER" and the so-called trace (*57) does
not work.


My present land-line phone subscription can be set to block
anonymous/unknown callers. I have to turn it off when my doctor
calls.




So a "blacklist" of unwanted numbers is not all that useful.


A good start is to simply block every "800-number".




Not that i object to such an idea, but the black box should reject /
shunt all calls not on the whitelist.
And a simple message to unwanted callers is not sufficent.
A selection of pre-programmed responses that the user can "piece
together" would seem to be ideal, and definitely should include those 3
magic tones.
"Instant pickup and response" is perfect, especially for those
unidentified callers - using the 3 tones.

BTW, what if the caller siezes the line? (happens sometimes)
Is there any way to ZAP them and recover use of the line?


Reverse potential drops the line.

I've also considered a "pass-key" approach not unlike those "enter
these four letters" web site controls. Have our machine "answer" the
phone and request a 4-number sequence to cause the line to ring.
Solicitors won't take the time.

...Jim Thompson

The "block anonymous/unknown callers" does not work; somehow they got
thru anyway, so i dropped the costly and ineffective service.
"block every 800-number" is not an option provided by Quest, and i am
sure it would be as ineffective.
The "Caller Privacy" option was also useless.

Reversing the line potential to drop the line would be a nice option;
either automatic after the "end" of a "conersation" or with a (red)
pushbutton.

I do not think a "passkey" system is needed or ultimately useful,
because it cannot "zap" a marketeer in such a way as to permenantly
discourage them.
Something more "offensive" like the 3 tones followed by a choosable
message if there is a viable phone number, as well as an *immediate*
pickup on no number with 3 tones and same choices (immediate hangup,
Bronx cheer, etc etc).



When your phone company won't provide the advanced features you want,
spend a few bucks for a half decent PC, some FXO/FXS cards for the
computer and install Asterisk.


No.

For an affordable consumer product we need a microprocessor-controlled
system that can talk to most existing telephone sets, # or * key codes
to add/delete to a white-list.

I can see analog ways to block the first ring, yet show the CID on the
telephone set.

But I'm not enough uP savvy to add the controls.

...Jim Thompson

I agree on the basic approach.
As far as programming, maybe use ladder logic and the "compiler"
available at http://cq.cx/ladder.pl with a PIC controller?


It occurred to me just now what message to play, "Please hold, we
value your business"... 30 second pause..."Please hold, we value your
business"... 30 second pause..."Please hold, we value your
business"... ad nauseam ;-)

...Jim Thompson
A good option.
Totally useless against marketeer incoming calls in my case, because
they hangup almost immediately on pickup; that is why i emphasized the
possibility of presenting the 3 magic tones Plus other chooseable
message) the very *instant* the CID pops up.

With "kill" based on CID I just thought of another feature:

At the 12th ring my phone rolls to voice mail. Set system for
allowing 11 rings for 800 numbers then "answer" (off hook for a few
seconds), prevents 800 crap in the voice mail ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

 

[Hammy]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:48:55 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Hugh Gibbons"

Any gray market part is a risk, especially if it's out of production.


** Wrong.

The risk is HIGHEST if the part IS in production and is popular with
repair techs and /or hobbyists.

See this page for a few examples:

http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.htm




...... Phil


According to that site someone purchased some counterfit 2N3773's

from Digikey.

"About three weeks ago we received a batch of transistors from
Digikey... To be more specific: 2N3773's... (about... 100 of them at
$1.25 ea.)"

Full story here:

http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p2.htm#n3773

I thought distubutors like Digikey purchased straight from the
manufacturer? What the hell is Digikey doing buying off EBay?
Digikey's mark-up is high, enough greedy bastards. I wonder what their
response was?

I was worried about this happenning too but I checked some
manufacturers list of trusted distrubutors and the places I usually
use were on it.

I guess even though I only buy from Newark,Digikey or Mouser I'm going
to have to start looking more closely at my parts.This will be
difficult since 90% plus are tiny SM.

 

[Hammy]

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:20:22 -0500, Hammy <spamme@hotmail.com> wrote:

According to that site someone purchased some counterfit 2N3773's
from Digikey.

"About three weeks ago we received a batch of transistors from
Digikey... To be more specific: 2N3773's... (about... 100 of them at
$1.25 ea.)"

Full story here:

http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p2.htm#n3773

I thought distubutors like Digikey purchased straight from the
manufacturer? What the hell is Digikey doing buying off EBay?
Digikey's mark-up is high, enough greedy bastards. I wonder what their
response was?

I was worried about this happenning too but I checked some
manufacturers list of trusted distrubutors and the places I usually
use were on it.

I guess even though I only buy from Newark,Digikey or Mouser I'm going
to have to start looking more closely at my parts.This will be
difficult since 90% plus are tiny SM.

Heres a interview question from EDN to Larson (Digi-Key Corp
President)

"EDN: What does Digi-Key, specifically, do to thwart counterfeiting?

Larson: All we do is buy direct from the manufacturer. We don’t buy
any product from brokers or EMS guys that overbought. Everything we
sell comes directly from the manufacturer. That’s probably the
strongest defense you can have."

From here

http://www.edn.com/article/CA6579204.html

 

[Jose Sirén]

"L.S. 03.05-08.Jyrki Niittymaa.Ydinvoimanäkökanta tulevaisuuteen on, että jo
olemassaolevistakin yksiköistä tulee luopua puhumattakin uusien
rakentamissuunnitelmasuunnitelmista. Mielipidekirjoituksissa ja
tekstipalstoilla tuodaan usein esille, että Suomi olisi yksinään
ydinvoimahuumamaa.Vastustajat korostaa laitosten vaarallisuutta tavalla,
jolla viitataan katastrofaalisiin seurauksiin mittaamattomaksi ajaksi.
IAEA:n tilastojen mukaan kaikkiaan ydinvoimaloita on jäljellä ENÄÄ 439kpl!
(Tilanne tarkoittaa sitä, että aiempi ydinvoiman 2% maailman
energiantuotanto-osuus on rajussa laskussa, koska jopa ydinvoimaloitten
KOKONAISMÄÄRÄ on kovassa pudotuksessa muun energiantuotannon noustessa
vuosittain maailmalla taustassa useita prosentteja. Siksi esim. Kiina
5-kertaistaa satsaustaan suhteessa nyanssiseen ydinvoimaansa jopa
viimewvuotisia suunitelmiaan enemmän. Syynä on kuulema se, ettei ydinvoima
sovi energiakalliina ja hitaana säätökyvyttömänä perustarpeisiin, ja
kansalaiset vierastavat ydinvoimaa nyttemmin myös sielä! Siksi Niittymaa
jatkaa tietäessään, että mm. tänä vuona maailman valloittavat päästöttömät ,
piiputtomat voimalat alkavat dominoimaan maailman energiamarkkinoita , kuten
TVO:n mm. Nikula ja Luhta kommentoivat taannoisessa YVA-kokouksessaan, Jyrki
jatkaa

Korostettakoon taas kerran tässäkin yhteydessä, että muita tuotantomuotoja,
erityisesti uusiutuvia, ei pidä väheksyä, tai jättää käyttämättä!
Viimekädessä mm. käytetyn polttoaineen loppusijoittaminen tuntuu
pelottavimmalta uhalta kauhukuvineen satojen vuosituhansien päähän!" Hei
siis VAUTSI, kaveri alkanee heijastella syitä siihen miksi jopa SDP on
luopumassa ydinhysteriastaan!)

*Koska maailman ydinvoimaloita tunutaan alati vaan purkavan enemmän
ydinvoimaloita, kuin hidas ja ponneton rakentaminen on vuosikymmenten
odottelussa tuottanut. Juuri kuten IAEA ennakoi tapahtuvan
energiapositiivisen uraanintuotannon loputtua -07. Mutta on tässä toki myös
muita motiiveja. Kuten monet muistavat TVO käyttää nykyään JOKAISEEN
ydinvoimalaan sukupuuttoon kuolevan valaan/vuosi. Tämä näkyy näissä mm.
MTC-palojen rasvankäytöissä ja vastaavissa sitten näin, kun
kampamaneettikasvattamot tyhjentävät valailta myös kiihtyvästi
ruuat:"Norjalaiset valaanpyytäjät ovat saaneet saaliikseen viisi
lahtivalasta. Kertoi norjalaislehti perjantaina. Valaanpyyntikausi on on
ollut käynnissä jo runsaan kuukauden, mutta pyyntiä on haitannut huono sää
ja jatkuvasti kohoavat polttoainekustannukset. Norjan itselleen asettamat
valaanpyyntikiintiöt tälle vuodelle on reilut 1000 lahtivalasta. Kiintiö oli
saman suuruinen myös viime vuona. Norja irtisanoutui kansainvälisestä
valaanpyyntikiellosta vuonna 1993 väittäen, että valaanpyynti on
välttämätöntä lahtivalaskantojen pitämiseksi sellaisena, ettei haittaa
kalastusta. Lahtivalaat kasvavat 11-metrisiksi ja painavat kahdeksan
tonnia."

*Ja tosiaan näillä tappokintiöillään juuri ja juuri hoidetaan alati katoavaa
ydinperintöä ja hiukan rasvaa riittää myös varastokäyttöön.