device for testing UK adsl signal

[tg]

thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow, I'll be
getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit) budget and
from what I gather it will provide the info I want from the line. If anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about it's
pro's and con's go right ahead..

 

[Clint Sharp]

In message <EtSdne7Qif7ehtDXnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, tg
<tg@nospamevereverever.net> writes

thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow, I'll be
getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit) budget and
from what I gather it will provide the info I want from the line. If anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about it's
pro's and con's go right ahead..



I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's laudable

to want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT engineers
used to use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to determine line
quality etc. that isn't good enough for you?

I can't see anything on that device that you can't obtain from a simple
router or USB modem (apart from perhaps ADSL2+, does anyone do a USB
attached ADSL2+ 'modem'?). The only advantage is that it's self
contained but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a router in a
box with an LCD attached to a debug port for which you're paying a hefty
premium.

The fact that you can't even download a brochure without registering for
marketing e-mail off them puts me off as well, surely if the product is
good then they'd share the details.

Again, really not meant as a dig at you, it just baffles me why spending
more money than is necessary to get the job done seems to be required
unless it's to baffle customers with bullshit (which may be taken as
either a dig or a heads up for you)
--
Clint Sharp

 

[Peter Crosland]

thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow, I'll be
getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit) budget and
from what I gather it will provide the info I want from the line. If
anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about it's
pro's and con's go right ahead..



I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's laudable to
want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT engineers used to
use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to determine line quality etc.
that isn't good enough for you?

I can't see anything on that device that you can't obtain from a simple
router or USB modem (apart from perhaps ADSL2+, does anyone do a USB
attached ADSL2+ 'modem'?). The only advantage is that it's self contained
but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a router in a box with an
LCD attached to a debug port for which you're paying a hefty premium.

The fact that you can't even download a brochure without registering for
marketing e-mail off them puts me off as well, surely if the product is
good then they'd share the details.

Again, really not meant as a dig at you, it just baffles me why spending
more money than is necessary to get the job done seems to be required
unless it's to baffle customers with bullshit (which may be taken as
either a dig or a heads up for you)

Spot on really! Unless you are investigating a really obscure problem it is
an expensive tool. When I had a serious problem the specialist OpenReach
engineer brought a Cable Shark amongst other things and he said that it was
really overkill for ADSL fault finding. Most of his testing was done with
the standard USB modem.

Peter Crosland

 

[Graham.]

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a0SlzzCSWcTKFwKc@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...

In message <EtSdne7Qif7ehtDXnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, tg
tg@nospamevereverever.net> writes
thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow, I'll be
getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit) budget and
from what I gather it will provide the info I want from the line. If
anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about it's
pro's and con's go right ahead..



I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's laudable to
want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT engineers used to
use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to determine line quality etc.
that isn't good enough for you?

I can't see anything on that device that you can't obtain from a simple
router or USB modem (apart from perhaps ADSL2+, does anyone do a USB
attached ADSL2+ 'modem'?). The only advantage is that it's self contained
but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a router in a box with an
LCD attached to a debug port for which you're paying a hefty premium.

The fact that you can't even download a brochure without registering for
marketing e-mail off them puts me off as well, surely if the product is
good then they'd share the details.

Again, really not meant as a dig at you, it just baffles me why spending
more money than is necessary to get the job done seems to be required
unless it's to baffle customers with bullshit (which may be taken as
either a dig or a heads up for you)

And you have to ask yourself even if your instrument identifies a
problem, what are you going to do about it?
Your options are limited to
A) Eliminating everything downstream of the line-box.
B) If A improves the situation, optimising the customers installation
by remaking connections, using single-point filtering, removing bell wires
etc.
C) If A does not improve the situation conceder escalation via ISP
In other words, exactly the same options as you would have without
the tester.

Just a thought, can that Vonaq device do the DMT tool trickery like
a bog-standard Netgear router can?


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

 

[baron]

Graham. Inscribed thus:

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a0SlzzCSWcTKFwKc@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
In message <EtSdne7Qif7ehtDXnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, tg
tg@nospamevereverever.net> writes
thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow,
I'll be getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit)
budget and from what I gather it will provide the info I want from
the line. If anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about
it's pro's and con's go right ahead..



I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's
laudable to want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT
engineers used to use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to
determine line quality etc. that isn't good enough for you?

I can't see anything on that device that you can't obtain from a
simple
router or USB modem (apart from perhaps ADSL2+, does anyone do a USB
attached ADSL2+ 'modem'?). The only advantage is that it's self
contained but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a router in
a box with an LCD attached to a debug port for which you're paying a
hefty premium.

The fact that you can't even download a brochure without registering
for
marketing e-mail off them puts me off as well, surely if the product
is good then they'd share the details.

Again, really not meant as a dig at you, it just baffles me why
spending more money than is necessary to get the job done seems to be
required unless it's to baffle customers with bullshit (which may be
taken as either a dig or a heads up for you)

And you have to ask yourself even if your instrument identifies a
problem, what are you going to do about it?
Your options are limited to
A) Eliminating everything downstream of the line-box.
B) If A improves the situation, optimising the customers installation
by remaking connections, using single-point filtering, removing bell
wires etc.
C) If A does not improve the situation conceder escalation via ISP
In other words, exactly the same options as you would have without
the tester.

Just a thought, can that Vonaq device do the DMT tool trickery like
a bog-standard Netgear router can?

Every ADSL problem I've come across is, either the signal is present at
the master socket or it isn't. Everything else is internal, ie the
clients responsibility ! A speedtouch 330 does just fine for testing
the line. After that an ohmmeter and a few jumpered plugs will allow
internal wiring tests.

M2P
--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[tg]

"baron" <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:h2l3o0$le5$1@news.eternal-september.org...

Graham. Inscribed thus:

Every ADSL problem I've come across is, either the signal is present at
the master socket or it isn't. Everything else is internal, ie the
clients responsibility ! A speedtouch 330 does just fine for testing
the line. After that an ohmmeter and a few jumpered plugs will allow
internal wiring tests.

spoken like a true amateur.

 

[tg]

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a0SlzzCSWcTKFwKc@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...

In message <EtSdne7Qif7ehtDXnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, tg
tg@nospamevereverever.net> writes
thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow, I'll be
getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit) budget and
from what I gather it will provide the info I want from the line. If
anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about it's
pro's and con's go right ahead..



I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's laudable to
want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT engineers used
to use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to determine line quality
etc. that isn't good enough for you?

aspring to be as good as a BT engineer is like aspiring to be a bin man. I
want to be ahead of them, not level with them.
waiting for the adsl light to stop blinking is for amateurs.

 

[tg]

"Peter Crosland" <g6jns@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:RPWdnTwOus5_RtDXnZ2dnUVZ8lqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...

Spot on really! Unless you are investigating a really obscure problem it
is an expensive tool. When I had a serious problem the specialist
OpenReach engineer brought a Cable Shark amongst other things and he said
that it was really overkill for ADSL fault finding. Most of his testing
was done with the standard USB modem.

that's typical of a bt engineer. You think he gives a damn about quality of
work? He's on a fixed wage, he just wants to do as little as possible to
complete and get back to his tv.

 

[tg]

"Graham." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h2kv1l$kci$1@news.eternal-september.org...

And you have to ask yourself even if your instrument identifies a
problem, what are you going to do about it?

for a start I'd be more certain about what the situation really is, I'd be
more certain about what I could and couldn't do about it, and I'd be able
to inform the client with greater honesty about what they should do. Many
might not care about that, but it means a lot to me.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

tg wrote:

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a0SlzzCSWcTKFwKc@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
In message <EtSdne7Qif7ehtDXnZ2dnUVZ8tadnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk>, tg
tg@nospamevereverever.net> writes
thanks for all the responses here. I think that once funds allow, I'll be
getting a Vonaq 500 tester. It's closer to my (recession-hit) budget and
from what I gather it will provide the info I want from the line. If
anyone
has used one of these devices and wants to enlighten us all about it's
pro's and con's go right ahead..



I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's laudable to
want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT engineers used
to use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to determine line quality
etc. that isn't good enough for you?

aspring to be as good as a BT engineer is like aspiring to be a bin man. I
want to be ahead of them, not level with them.
waiting for the adsl light to stop blinking is for amateurs.

Yawn. If you're so damn smart get a job there and show them how its
done.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

 

[Peter Crosland]

Spot on really! Unless you are investigating a really obscure problem it
is an expensive tool. When I had a serious problem the specialist
OpenReach engineer brought a Cable Shark amongst other things and he said
that it was really overkill for ADSL fault finding. Most of his testing
was done with the standard USB modem.

that's typical of a bt engineer. You think he gives a damn about quality
of
work? He's on a fixed wage, he just wants to do as little as possible to
complete and get back to his tv.

You really are leading with your chin by making such a sweeping, and wholly
inaccurate, statement. The engineer I was talking about was emphatically not
one of the regular OpenReach fault finders, but a regional specialist known
as a Precision Test Officer or PTO who undoubtedly knows rather more about
job than you do. Much of the testing he did involved fitting test equipment
at the exchange and using this to examine what was happening between it and
various points between there and the customer's site. For someone such as
yourself advanced ADSL test gear is simply unnecessary.


Peter Crosland

 

[R Johnson]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:24:35 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

Spot on really! Unless you are investigating a really obscure problem
it is an expensive tool. When I had a serious problem the specialist
OpenReach engineer brought a Cable Shark amongst other things and he
said that it was really overkill for ADSL fault finding. Most of his
testing was done with the standard USB modem.

that's typical of a bt engineer. You think he gives a damn about
quality of
work? He's on a fixed wage, he just wants to do as little as possible
to complete and get back to his tv.


You really are leading with your chin by making such a sweeping, and
wholly inaccurate, statement. The engineer I was talking about was
emphatically not one of the regular OpenReach fault finders, but a
regional specialist known as a Precision Test Officer or PTO who
undoubtedly knows rather more about job than you do.

I have to object. Most PTR's are the laziest, dumbest tossers you will
find on the firm. It takes years of begging to get one of his (or her)
arse, they expect everything to be done for them and then find nothing. I
recall watching one hunting for a source of interference with a massive
dipole aerial and a million pound tester. A ÂŁ5 AM radio and a pair of
ears used by a multi-skilled faultsman who still gave a toss proved to be
just as effective and faster.

A PTR does not get the role of 'specialist' as per the normal definition.
It is usually an upward promotion for the sick, lame, lazy or useless. At
BT/Openreach SHIT HAS ALWAYS FLOATED TO THE TOP OF THE BUCKET. There may
be one or two that break this mould, but by far you could sack all PTR's
and nobody much would notice other than the accountants.

Still Peter Crosland - I'm glad you still believe the hype

 

[Clint Sharp]

In message <psSdnRU-lpy_ENPXnZ2dnUVZ8jMAAAAA@eclipse.net.uk>, tg
<tg@nospamevereverever.net> writes

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a0SlzzCSWcTKFwKc@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
I'm not criticising your decision to buy test equipment, it's laudable to
want to do the job properly but I just wonder why, if BT engineers used
to use a fairly simple USB modem and a laptop to determine line quality
etc. that isn't good enough for you?

aspring to be as good as a BT engineer is like aspiring to be a bin man. I
want to be ahead of them, not level with them.
Meh... This all smacks of someone trying to justify a bad decision who's

spitting his dummy out now someone has shown him there's no point.

waiting for the adsl light to stop blinking is for amateurs.
I guess it must be a special, professional, blinking LED on the Vonaq

then..

I bow to your superior attitude and wish to offer apologies for pointing
out that the kit you're about to unnecessarily spend money on is not
going to give you any more information than the status page of a cheap
router.

Still, it's got a pretty case and six lovely professional LED indicators
so I bet your customers will be impressed that you can professionally
bullshit them.

Good luck.

--
Clint Sharp
pment

 

[George Weston]

"R Johnson" <bounce@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:4a4ee88e$0$18236$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:24:35 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

Spot on really! Unless you are investigating a really obscure problem
it is an expensive tool. When I had a serious problem the specialist
OpenReach engineer brought a Cable Shark amongst other things and he
said that it was really overkill for ADSL fault finding. Most of his
testing was done with the standard USB modem.

that's typical of a bt engineer. You think he gives a damn about
quality of
work? He's on a fixed wage, he just wants to do as little as possible
to complete and get back to his tv.


You really are leading with your chin by making such a sweeping, and
wholly inaccurate, statement. The engineer I was talking about was
emphatically not one of the regular OpenReach fault finders, but a
regional specialist known as a Precision Test Officer or PTO who
undoubtedly knows rather more about job than you do.

I have to object. Most PTR's are the laziest, dumbest tossers you will
find on the firm. It takes years of begging to get one of his (or her)
arse, they expect everything to be done for them and then find nothing. I
recall watching one hunting for a source of interference with a massive
dipole aerial and a million pound tester. A Ł5 AM radio and a pair of
ears used by a multi-skilled faultsman who still gave a toss proved to be
just as effective and faster.

A PTR does not get the role of 'specialist' as per the normal definition.
It is usually an upward promotion for the sick, lame, lazy or useless. At
BT/Openreach SHIT HAS ALWAYS FLOATED TO THE TOP OF THE BUCKET. There may
be one or two that break this mould, but by far you could sack all PTR's
and nobody much would notice other than the accountants.

Still Peter Crosland - I'm glad you still believe the hype

Not bitter and twisted then? That's reassuring
;-)

George

 

[Peter Crosland]

Not bitter and twisted then? That's reassuring

When people resort to shouting and abusive language like this it is a clear
sign they have totally lost the plot. Sounds like an ex BT employee who did
not make the grade to me so I added him to my killfile..

Peter Crosland

 

[R Johnson]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:09:59 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

Not bitter and twisted then? That's reassuring

When people resort to shouting and abusive language like this it is a
clear sign they have totally lost the plot. Sounds like an ex BT
employee who did not make the grade to me so I added him to my
killfile..

Peter Crosland

Always been a wanker know-nothing, always will be.

 

[Ato_Zee]

On 4-Jul-2009, Clint Sharp <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote:

waiting for the adsl light to stop blinking is for amateurs.
I guess it must be a special, professional, blinking LED on the Vonaq
then..

To me the blinking light means negotiation process.

Some modems tell you all you want to know, both numerical
values, and a picture of the BINS spectrum in bargraph
form, where you can, if you have the time and inclination,
select and write down the values for each BIN, and there
are a lot of them.

 

[Graham.]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:09:59 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

Not bitter and twisted then? That's reassuring

When people resort to shouting and abusive language like this it is a
clear sign they have totally lost the plot. Sounds like an ex BT
employee who did not make the grade to me so I added him to my
killfile..

Peter Crosland

Always been a wanker know-nothing, always will be.

He's an arrogant so-and-so isn't he?

A quick look at his posting profile shows he rarely contributes to
a thread unless he is the OP, a sure indicator of a troll.

A few weeks ago he needed help identifying an signal he received on
his HF "scanner". It occurred to me if his data-comms experience is not
up to identifying simple FSK Baudot, what chance has he got troubleshooting
a complex DMT signal?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

 

[alexd]

R Johnson wrote:

Always been a wanker know-nothing, always will be.

Yes, but what about Peter Crosland?

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
17:16:36 up 59 days, 2:00, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.17, 0.11
A few flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction

 

[R Johnson]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:16:55 +0100, alexd wrote:

R Johnson wrote:

Always been a wanker know-nothing, always will be.

Yes, but what about Peter Crosland?

The same as you Alex. As stated.