device for testing UK adsl signal

[tg]

in my job fixing internet connections (here in the UK) I constantly collide
with bad adsl signals and dodgy home telephone wiring and I need a device
that tests the presence/level/quality of the adsl signal on the line -
something I can plug into the BT socket and get an accurate reading. I
specifically want to test for any deterioration in the adsl signal in
extension sockets coming off the main socket.
I figured there must be a gadget somewhere that can do this but I've never
seen one. I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not
interested in that, I'd rather get a dedicated device. Does anyone know of
such equipment?
thanks for any advice.

 

[Adrian C]

tg wrote:

I figured there must be a gadget somewhere that can do this but I've never
seen one.

Try googling "ADSL handheld"

--
Adrian C

 

[PeterD]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:18:59 +0100, "tg" <tg@nospamevereverever.net>
wrote:

in my job fixing internet connections (here in the UK) I constantly collide
with bad adsl signals and dodgy home telephone wiring and I need a device
that tests the presence/level/quality of the adsl signal on the line -
something I can plug into the BT socket and get an accurate reading.

These (DSL) line test systems have existed and do exist. They are
available to industry, but are rather expensive, so you need to reveal
your budget before I'll bother researching and posting a list. We're
talking tens of thousands, IIRC for a reasonable tester.

I
specifically want to test for any deterioration in the adsl signal in
extension sockets coming off the main socket.
I figured there must be a gadget somewhere that can do this but I've never
seen one.

Consider a simple signal strength meter, with a 20 KHz high pass
filter.

Study DSL some more. Understand the bands used, the frequencies used.
Then you can come up with something realistic to test with, assuming
your budget doesn't allow for a dedicated tester.

But... Why are you running DSL to multiple sockets? Catch the DSL line
as it enters the premises and run the modem there, then split the POTS
line to the sockets as needed. Don't try to run the DSL places where
it is 'not needed'.

I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not
interested in that,

What does a router have to do with this problem. That's an ethernet
device, and knows zip, zero, nothing, nada about DSL.

I'd rather get a dedicated device. Does anyone know of
such equipment?
thanks for any advice.

 

[Adrian C]

Brian Mc wrote:

In uk.telecom.broadband PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

: What does a router have to do with this problem. That's an ethernet
: device, and knows zip, zero, nothing, nada about DSL.

I had presumed this meant that most routers will give an analysis of the DSL
line (S/N levels, sync speeds etc.) on their control interface.

.... If the router is a modem-router (as most are these days used in the
context of ADSL)

--
Adrian C

 

[reader443.eternal-septemb]

"PeterD" <peter2@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:g4om45th140gshpl0snjcct7qfla6g5s1v@4ax.com...

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:18:59 +0100, "tg" <tg@nospamevereverever.net
wrote:

in my job fixing internet connections (here in the UK) I constantly
collide
with bad adsl signals and dodgy home telephone wiring and I need a device
that tests the presence/level/quality of the adsl signal on the line -
something I can plug into the BT socket and get an accurate reading.

These (DSL) line test systems have existed and do exist. They are
available to industry, but are rather expensive, so you need to reveal
your budget before I'll bother researching and posting a list. We're
talking tens of thousands, IIRC for a reasonable tester.

I
specifically want to test for any deterioration in the adsl signal in
extension sockets coming off the main socket.
I figured there must be a gadget somewhere that can do this but I've never
seen one.

Consider a simple signal strength meter, with a 20 KHz high pass
filter.

Study DSL some more. Understand the bands used, the frequencies used.
Then you can come up with something realistic to test with, assuming
your budget doesn't allow for a dedicated tester.

But... Why are you running DSL to multiple sockets? Catch the DSL line
as it enters the premises and run the modem there, then split the POTS
line to the sockets as needed. Don't try to run the DSL places where
it is 'not needed'.


I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not
interested in that,

What does a router have to do with this problem. That's an ethernet
device, and knows zip, zero, nothing, nada about DSL.

I'd rather get a dedicated device. Does anyone know of
such equipment?
thanks for any advice.

I see your logic, but most domestic grade routers sold in the UK
are hybrid devices and include a DSL modem and often a wireless
access point too. I suspect you are not in the UK, are things
different where you are?
Oh and we pronounce it "rooter" and not "rawter".

I certainly carry such a device for diagnostic purposes.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

 

[Peter Crosland]

in my job fixing internet connections (here in the UK) I constantly
collide
with bad adsl signals and dodgy home telephone wiring and I need a device
that tests the presence/level/quality of the adsl signal on the line -
something I can plug into the BT socket and get an accurate reading. I
specifically want to test for any deterioration in the adsl signal in
extension sockets coming off the main socket.
I figured there must be a gadget somewhere that can do this but I've never
seen one. I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not
interested in that, I'd rather get a dedicated device. Does anyone know of
such equipment?
thanks for any advice.

They are available but expect to have to pay lots for one. Google ADSL
handheld for a range of them.

Peter Crosland

 

[Brian Mc]

In uk.telecom.broadband PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

: What does a router have to do with this problem. That's an ethernet
: device, and knows zip, zero, nothing, nada about DSL.

I had presumed this meant that most routers will give an analysis of the DSL
line (S/N levels, sync speeds etc.) on their control interface.

 

[alexd]

tg wrote:

I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not interested in
that,

Get a router that's compatible with DMT [http://dmt.mhilfe.de/] and you'll
be able to get a frequency response graph from each point where you'd like
to test.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
19:49:02 up 56 days, 3:53, 2 users, load average: 0.09, 0.26, 0.25
A few flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

Brian Mc wrote:

In uk.telecom.broadband PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

: What does a router have to do with this problem. That's an ethernet
: device, and knows zip, zero, nothing, nada about DSL.

I had presumed this meant that most routers will give an analysis of the DSL
line (S/N levels, sync speeds etc.) on their control interface.
Well it depends if you mean by router a 'generic device for machining

wood' a ' device that purely routes computer network traffic' or ' A
device thet purely routes ethernet traffic or 'a device that not only
routes IP traffic but also does NAT, and contains a DSL modem as well'

I THINK the definition is a device that maintains a routing state table
of some sort, that connects networks at a layer *above* the transport
address level. This clearly marking where an ethernet switch ends: That
being a device that routes Ethernet packets irrespoective of what
protocol is layered above.

Strictly a 'broadband router' is hardly a router at all. Its a DSL modem
with ATM support and almost (but not quite) a bridge between the CPE and
the ISP termination equipment.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

reader443.eternal-september.org wrote:

Oh and we pronounce it "rooter" and not "rawter".

ROWTER shirley?

I certainly carry such a device for diagnostic purposes.

Drilling holes and trepanning into peoples' mind sets perhaps? ;-)

 

[tg]

"Adrian C" <email@here.invalid> wrote in message
news:7b0sdlF21uvlaU2@mid.individual.net...

tg wrote:
I figured there must be a gadget somewhere that can do this but I've
never
seen one.

Try googling "ADSL handheld"

thanks for your feedback, that search did bring up some gadgets. The first
one was over Ł3000...oh dear. I did see a Vonaq 100 pretty cheap but I'm
not sure if this device will serve my needs. I liked the look of the argus
testers but again I'll make sure I'm sitting down when I check out the
price.

 

[tg]

"PeterD" <peter2@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:g4om45th140gshpl0snjcct7qfla6g5s1v@4ax.com...

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:18:59 +0100, "tg" <tg@nospamevereverever.net
wrote:

But... Why are you running DSL to multiple sockets? Catch the DSL line
as it enters the premises and run the modem there, then split the POTS
line to the sockets as needed. Don't try to run the DSL places where
it is 'not needed'.

I can't do that. If the customer wants the adsl 'there', I've got to make
it work there.

I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not
interested in that,

What does a router have to do with this problem. That's an ethernet
device, and knows zip, zero, nothing, nada about DSL.

some routers give detailed info about the adsl signal they're connected to
but I'm not going to do it that way. I'm talking about the home/plastic box
routers here, not the pure ethernet devices.

 

[tg]

"alexd" <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8988235.ljVUCQOuko@ale.cx...

tg wrote:

I've heard the argument about using routers but I'm not interested in
that,

Get a router that's compatible with DMT [http://dmt.mhilfe.de/] and
you'll
be able to get a frequency response graph from each point where you'd
like
to test.

thanks I'm not interested in routers, I want to get a handheld dedicated
device.

 

[tg]

"reader443.eternal-september.org" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h2ftd8$j30$1@news.eternal-september.org...

I see your logic, but most domestic grade routers sold in the UK
are hybrid devices and include a DSL modem and often a wireless
access point too. I suspect you are not in the UK, are things
different where you are?

I am in the UK

 

[Adrian C]

reader443.eternal-september.org wrote:

Oh and we pronounce it "rooter" and not "rawter".

There is a nation of sniggering ozzies having a great and crude time
with the word router and the pronounciation as rooter ...

I certainly carry such a device for diagnostic purposes.

Indeed, you do ;-)

--
Adrian C

 

[Graham.]

"tg" <tg@nospamevereverever.net> wrote in message
news:u9adnQWguf3NcdbXnZ2dnUVZ8hAAAAAA@eclipse.net.uk...

"reader443.eternal-september.org" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h2ftd8$j30$1@news.eternal-september.org...

I see your logic, but most domestic grade routers sold in the UK
are hybrid devices and include a DSL modem and often a wireless
access point too. I suspect you are not in the UK, are things
different where you are?

I am in the UK

I know you are, my remark was addressed to "PeterD"

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

 

[Graham.]

"tg" <tg@nospamevereverever.net> wrote in message
news:u9adnQuguf3NcdbXnZ2dnUVZ8hAAAAAA@eclipse.net.uk...

"PeterD" <peter2@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:g4om45th140gshpl0snjcct7qfla6g5s1v@4ax.com...
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:18:59 +0100, "tg" <tg@nospamevereverever.net
wrote:

But... Why are you running DSL to multiple sockets? Catch the DSL line
as it enters the premises and run the modem there, then split the POTS
line to the sockets as needed. Don't try to run the DSL places where
it is 'not needed'.

I can't do that. If the customer wants the adsl 'there', I've got to make
it work there.

Of course you do, but that is not at odds with Peter's advice.
Ideally use a filtered faceplate on the master socket and
connect all the extension sockets to the filtered side.
Only the socket for the router (wherever the customer wants it)
should be direct from the line (use an RJ11 plate to prevent a phone
being plugged in).

Using multiple filters, one on each POTS device is not ideal,
despite what some ISPs might have you believe.

Tackling installations, especially marginal ones, using this
central filter approach is more important than investing in expensive
test equipment.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

 

[PeterD]

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:52:21 +0100, "reader443.eternal-september.org"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

I see your logic, but most domestic grade routers sold in the UK
are hybrid devices and include a DSL modem and often a wireless
access point too. I suspect you are not in the UK, are things
different where you are?

US, and they go either way here. I use stand alone DSL modems, and
then feed a router which is a seperate box. Oh, and at least around
here, we say rooter too.

Oh and we pronounce it "rooter" and not "rawter".

I certainly carry such a device for diagnostic purposes.

I know of some that do give diagnostic information, but I'd be
reluctant to depend on it.

But again, why wire DSL to all the phone jacks, instead do the jack
nearest the entry point, put the DSL modem (or router/modem) there,
and put the rest of the house's sockets on the other side of a DSL
filter.

 

[Graham.]

"PeterD" <peter2@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:2s2o45163godcg0r5m1fvfgj58dgp2mr8t@4ax.com...

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:52:21 +0100, "reader443.eternal-september.org"
me@privacy.net> wrote:



I see your logic, but most domestic grade routers sold in the UK
are hybrid devices and include a DSL modem and often a wireless
access point too. I suspect you are not in the UK, are things
different where you are?

US, and they go either way here. I use stand alone DSL modems, and
then feed a router which is a seperate box. Oh, and at least around
here, we say rooter too.

Oh and we pronounce it "rooter" and not "rawter".

I certainly carry such a device for diagnostic purposes.

I know of some that do give diagnostic information, but I'd be
reluctant to depend on it.

But again, why wire DSL to all the phone jacks, instead do the jack
nearest the entry point, put the DSL modem (or router/modem) there,
and put the rest of the house's sockets on the other side of a DSL
filter.

I agree, it's far from ideal.
Here in the UK ADSL is almost always self-installed by the customer,
and it is easier for the ISP to mail out to the customer a number of
ADSL filters with instructions to connect them between extension
sockets and POTS equipment.

The more savvy amongst us will use a central splitter/filter an a
similar way to what I think you normally do in the US.

The problem here in getting the uninitiated to alter the wiring,
is if they mess it up, the main phone company that looks
after the local loop will charge heavily if they are called out.

Other problems are for historical reason's some properties
don't have a recognised demarcation point between the Telco's
wiring and customers own wiring

Another odd (unique?) feature is the master socket contains
a capacitor that passes the AC ringing current to a third pin
on each telephone socket to work the ringer, although most
newer phones ignore this and sense the ringing from the line
pair in the normal way, this third wire tends to adversely affect
marginal DSL signals.

Oh and we don't use RJ11 jacks on the end of the cord,
we use an odd UK connector that no doubt has a name,
but it is so ubiquitous here it is simply called a phone plug.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

 

[George Weston]

"Graham." <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h2iaff$523$1@news.eternal-september.org...

"PeterD" <peter2@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:2s2o45163godcg0r5m1fvfgj58dgp2mr8t@4ax.com...
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:52:21 +0100, "reader443.eternal-september.org"
me@privacy.net> wrote:



I see your logic, but most domestic grade routers sold in the UK
are hybrid devices and include a DSL modem and often a wireless
access point too. I suspect you are not in the UK, are things
different where you are?

US, and they go either way here. I use stand alone DSL modems, and
then feed a router which is a seperate box. Oh, and at least around
here, we say rooter too.

Oh and we pronounce it "rooter" and not "rawter".

I certainly carry such a device for diagnostic purposes.

I know of some that do give diagnostic information, but I'd be
reluctant to depend on it.

But again, why wire DSL to all the phone jacks, instead do the jack
nearest the entry point, put the DSL modem (or router/modem) there,
and put the rest of the house's sockets on the other side of a DSL
filter.

I agree, it's far from ideal.
Here in the UK ADSL is almost always self-installed by the customer,
and it is easier for the ISP to mail out to the customer a number of
ADSL filters with instructions to connect them between extension
sockets and POTS equipment.

The more savvy amongst us will use a central splitter/filter an a
similar way to what I think you normally do in the US.

The problem here in getting the uninitiated to alter the wiring,
is if they mess it up, the main phone company that looks
after the local loop will charge heavily if they are called out.

Other problems are for historical reason's some properties
don't have a recognised demarcation point between the Telco's
wiring and customers own wiring

Another odd (unique?) feature is the master socket contains
a capacitor that passes the AC ringing current to a third pin
on each telephone socket to work the ringer, although most
newer phones ignore this and sense the ringing from the line
pair in the normal way, this third wire tends to adversely affect
marginal DSL signals.

Oh and we don't use RJ11 jacks on the end of the cord,
we use an odd UK connector that no doubt has a name,
but it is so ubiquitous here it is simply called a phone plug.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_telephone_sockets

George