Detecting best path?

On 10/16/2012 12:49 PM, Jymesion wrote:
On 16 Oct 2012 06:41:17 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
On 2012-10-14, Jymesion <noreplies@jymes.com> wrote:
'Real' Situation:
The Cross is tubes of insulating ceramic, and the gold ribbon isn't
continuous -- there are gaps on the back of the Cross, making each
turn a contact plate connected to a voltage multiplier. A remote
control turns it on and off. Output (without load) is 300kV.

Ivory is a pretty good insulator itself.

Ivory isn't practical in this situation because there's no good excuse
for him to have it. He can order ceramic tubes in a variety of sizes
from a company where he buys items for his electronics hobby. As long
as it seems mainstream, and can't be used to build an obvious weapon,
it slips under the radar of those watching him.

What's needed is some method of determining which contact plates will
send the current through the person's body.

You can use spark gaps to route the current. Just put a 0.1mm spark gap
between each segment and apply the voltage between the ends. the gaps
will arc and connect the segments in series until the current reaches
each hand and then the current will take the easier path through the
hands and arms,

Wouldn't the easiest path be though a hand which touches two plates?

If that happens, the suspect will let go. While that would establish
his guilt, it wouldn't be as frightening. I assume anyone who'd plot
to assassinate his king would be made of stern stuff, and it'd take a
combination of pain and fear to make him confess and start naming
names.
Click to expand...
You are looking for a blocking oscillator.
Basically it is a transformer and a transistor.
It can operate from a single cell.
Output voltage depend on the number of turns.

Beware of the warning:

This booklet provides info on an important application of the Tesla
oscillator, high frequency lighting. It gives full instructions for the
construction of a one transistor battery powered oscillator that will
run fluorescent tubes up to 40 watts. Printed-circuit artwork is
included for those wishing to etch their own boards. Instructions are
given for winding two different types resonance transformer. The
oscillator can be used for a small scale demonstration of Tesla's
Air/Ground system for wireless electrical power transmission.

This is from: <http://www.tfcbooks.com/mall/more/444tod.htm>
You can Google to for: non blocking oscillator wiki for additional
information.

Remote on/off control can be done with a simple remote controlled toy.

Perhaps a mercury switch is nice to have. The device is only active when
it is more or less vertical.

An other idee could be a Ruhmkorff inductor. Draw back it makes some noise.

regards, pim.
 
Jymesion wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:23 +0200, tuinkabouter
dachthetniet@net.invalid> wrote:


You are looking for a blocking oscillator.


The high voltage part isn't the problem -- a voltage multiplier module
designed for use in stun guns is readily available.

The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.
Click to expand...
You're trying to give some one a hear attach, why?

Jamie
 
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:23 +0200, tuinkabouter
<dachthetniet@net.invalid> wrote:

You are looking for a blocking oscillator.
Click to expand...
The high voltage part isn't the problem -- a voltage multiplier module
designed for use in stun guns is readily available.

The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.
 
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:00:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

What seems to me to be a glaring error is that if only one hand
gripped the cross, then there'd be no way for current to flown through
the body and elicit convulsions.
Click to expand...
Perfectly true.

I don't think that is likely. The accused had to hold a Cross up,
state their innocence, and wait while a prayer was said. Being unable
to hold it up until the prayer ended indicated guilt, which meant
immediate imposition of the death penalty.

I doubt most people would be so cavalier as to do it one-handed when
there's so much at stake.

In any case, it's reasonable to assume the suspect would use both
hands, so that is how the scene is written.

(I've never found accounts which detail such things, but I've always
suspected that if the priest liked you, it was a small Cross and he
raced through the prayer, but if he didn't like you, it was an
80-pounder and the words came slowly.)
 
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:11:49 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>
wrote:

Can you point me to something you have written?
Click to expand...
http://ruw.jymes.com/wp/?cat=16
 
George Herold wrote:

On Oct 16, 7:05 pm, Jymesion <norepl...@jymes.com> wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:23 +0200, tuinkabouter

dachthetn...@net.invalid> wrote:

You are looking for a blocking oscillator.

The high voltage part isn't the problem -- a voltage multiplier module
designed for use in stun guns is readily available.

The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.


That's your problem as I see it... you can't apply a voltage to the
hand and have the current go through some other part of the body...
unless he's got his other hand on a 'grounded' bible, or he is
standing bare footed on a damp floor. You've got to show the entire
current path, else he just has a hand spasm.

George H.


Now a reborn baptism ceremony may work with some salted water, if the
Click to expand...
electron displacement from the cross does not get them, a little splash
in the eyes will wake them up!..

Jamie
 
On Oct 16, 7:05 pm, Jymesion <norepl...@jymes.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:23 +0200, tuinkabouter

dachthetn...@net.invalid> wrote:
You are looking for a blocking oscillator.

The high voltage part isn't the problem -- a voltage multiplier module
designed for use in stun guns is readily available.

The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.
Click to expand...
That's your problem as I see it... you can't apply a voltage to the
hand and have the current go through some other part of the body...
unless he's got his other hand on a 'grounded' bible, or he is
standing bare footed on a damp floor. You've got to show the entire
current path, else he just has a hand spasm.

George H.
 
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:52:41 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

You're trying to give some one a hear attach, why?
Click to expand...
What I'm trying to do is get some help with circuit design.
 
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:42:55 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
On Oct 16, 7:05 pm, Jymesion <norepl...@jymes.com> wrote:
The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.

That's your problem as I see it... you can't apply a voltage to the
hand and have the current go through some other part of the body...
Click to expand...
It's natural to use two hands to pick up something large, especially
when you have to hold it up for a while.

Current goes in one hand, out the other.
 
Jymesion wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:25:23 +0200, tuinkabouter
dachthetniet@net.invalid> wrote:

You are looking for a blocking oscillator.

The high voltage part isn't the problem -- a voltage multiplier module
designed for use in stun guns is readily available.

The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.
Click to expand...

Bull. Connect all alternating surfaces, so no matter how they hold
it they are shocked. I built things that did that back in the '60s. A
foil covered box, a 'D' cell, a small hand wound iron core coil & a
vibration/tilt switch. There was no way you could pick it up with bare
hands and not be shocked. Your "300,000 volts" would arc over the
outside of that cross, unless it is over 12 inches between the exposed
contacts.
 
On 10/16/2012 8:06 PM, Jymesion wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:11:49 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net
wrote:

Can you point me to something you have written?

http://ruw.jymes.com/wp/?cat=16

Thanks. Do you do drugs?
Click to expand...
 
On 10/17/2012 1:42 PM, Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:38:17 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net
wrote:

Do you do drugs?

I'm on an aspirin regimen.

I had to ask after reading some of the stuff on your page.
Click to expand...
 
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:34:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Jymesion wrote:
The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.

Bull.
Click to expand...
If a person's hand touches both, the reflex is to jerk the hand away.
Your "300,000 volts" would arc over the
outside of that cross, unless it is over 12 inches between the exposed
contacts.
Click to expand...
My stun gun is rated 300kV. It doesn't arc over.
 
Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:38:17 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net
wrote:


Do you do drugs?


I'm on an aspirin regimen.
Click to expand...
Better check the contents of that bottle... I think
it might be mislabeled.

Jamie
 
Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:34:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Jymesion wrote:
The problem is determining which of several available contact plates
to make active so the current flows through the person's body rather
than just one hand.

Bull.

If a person's hand touches both, the reflex is to jerk the hand away.
Your "300,000 volts" would arc over the
outside of that cross, unless it is over 12 inches between the exposed
contacts.

My stun gun is rated 300kV. It doesn't arc over.
Click to expand...

So, it defies the laws of physics?
 
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:26:54 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>
wrote:
On 10/17/2012 1:42 PM, Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:38:17 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net
wrote:
Do you do drugs?
I'm on an aspirin regimen.
I had to ask after reading some of the stuff on your page.
Click to expand...
It's often been said that writers get strange ideas, and sf writers
get really strange ideas. I've always tried to live up to that. :)
 
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:04:06 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:34:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

If a person's hand touches both, the reflex is to jerk the hand away.
Your "300,000 volts" would arc over the
outside of that cross, unless it is over 12 inches between the exposed
contacts.

My stun gun is rated 300kV. It doesn't arc over.

So, it defies the laws of physics?
Click to expand...
It has a safety feature so it doesn't discharge unless it's pressed
against something. Since a body has less resistance than air, the
current chooses that path rather than arcing.

If you cared at all about knowing what you're talking about, you would
have read the part of the original post where it's explained the
device would only be discharged when it's in proper contact with a
body.
 
Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:04:06 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jymesion wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:34:07 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

If a person's hand touches both, the reflex is to jerk the hand away.
Your "300,000 volts" would arc over the
outside of that cross, unless it is over 12 inches between the exposed
contacts.

My stun gun is rated 300kV. It doesn't arc over.

So, it defies the laws of physics?

It has a safety feature so it doesn't discharge unless it's pressed
against something. Since a body has less resistance than air, the
current chooses that path rather than arcing.

If you cared at all about knowing what you're talking about, you would
have read the part of the original post where it's explained the
device would only be discharged when it's in proper contact with a
body.
Click to expand...

I read it. I also understand the way HV arcs.
 
On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:38:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

I read it. I also understand the way HV arcs.
Click to expand...
I've had training and practical experience in use of stun guns up to
500kV. This included watching many hours of videos on various methods
of use. I've never seen an arc when both leads are in contact with a
body.

The resistance of air is much higher than what's essentially a bag of
salt water.
 
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