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https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/18/1836218/claim-that-covid-19-came-from-
lab-in-china-completely-unfounded-scientists-say
On 18 Apr 2020 12:06:14 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/18/1836218/claim-that-covid-19-came-from-
lab-in-china-completely-unfounded-scientists-say
These days, you can find scientists to say most anything.
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they
don't agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a
conspiracy.
** What idiocy.
The term refers to hypotheses of events that require and large number
of persons be involved and yet silent on the fact - seemingly
indefinitely.
Any believer is required to suspend disbelief about the extreme
improbability of that actually being the case.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying
saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
A lab accident, if it happened, is not a conspiracy.
** My god you are dumb.
The conspiracy bit relates to ALL those aware being complicit and
silent.
That's not a conspiracy either. That's a dictatorial government telling
people what to do.
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 4:50:44 PM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
whit3rd wrote...
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 12:46:22 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On 18 Apr 2020 12:06:14 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/18/1836218/claim-that-covid-19-
came-from-
lab-in-china-completely-unfounded-scientists-say
These days, you can find scientists to say most anything.
No scientists trusts a scientist's words, rather we trust the data.
The 'say almost anything' phrase suggests that you've been finding
scientists entertaining hypotheses that aren't in agreement. That's
normal, and wouldn't surprise anyone with a good elementary school
science education. It's not noteworthy.
When a scientist, in this case, says a claim is unfounded, it means the
claim alone is worthless, absent a supporting observation; that doesn't
mean the claim is right or wrong, it means it's untested.
The dramatic-form 'he said, she said' squabbling is irrelevant in science.
The resolution will always come from observations, not words and syllables.
You should re-read the material. Here's one statement:
"The genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is
not derived from any previously used virus backbone."
https://nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uox9g9kgq2h8r3v/s41591-020-0820-9.pdf?dl=1
That's one of many such strong statements. Alexandre Hassanin,
"Even if it is difficult to prove that a laboratory accident did not
take place, you should know that SARS-CoV-2 is not closely related
to any previous viruses; it was never sequenced (even partially)
in previous studies, and the COVID-19 outbreak began in November/
December, as in previous SARS epidemic events (2002 and 2003)."
Hassanin said: "These two points suggest therefore that the current
outbreak was not the consequence of a laboratory accident."
Eric Hundman, an Assistant Professor at NYU Shanghai, had stern
words for anyone still spreading this misinformation. "Insinuating
that the virus escaped from a lab in China by saying 'well, there's
no evidence that it didn't' is not only untrue, it amounts to
disinformation that could further ratchet up US-China tensions
and distract from more urgent priorities. There actually is
scientific evidence against the "escaped from a lab" theory."
It really matters not if it escaped from a lab or if it was some crazy bat virus from a slaughter market in Wuhan. What matters is why the immediate coverup.
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
--------------------
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they don't
agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a conspiracy.
** What idiocy.
The term refers to hypotheses of events that require and large number of persons be involved and yet silent on the fact - seemingly indefinitely.
Any believer is required to suspend disbelief about the extreme improbability of that actually being the case.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
A lab accident, if it happened, is not a conspiracy.
** My god you are dumb.
The conspiracy bit relates to ALL those aware being complicit and silent.
.... Phil
On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:56:02 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
Scientists are no different than musicians....
He who pays the piper calls the tunes
They are as driven by emotion and ego as musicians too. The computer
simulations are all over the place.
** Does anyone sensible really think that modelling future outcomes based on numerous guesses and hunches is doing science ?
It works OK for well-behaved, reasonably linear systems, which aren't
the most interesting or important systems.
Seems the public have been conned into calling it science - because "scientists" are the ones doing it. Hmmmm....
TOP scientists!
Winfield Hill wrote:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/18/1836218/claim-that-covid-19-came-from-
lab-in-china-completely-unfounded-scientists-say
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they don't
agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a conspiracy. A
lab accident, if it happened, is not a conspiracy.
Winfield Hill wrote:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/18/1836218/claim-that-covid-19-came-from-
lab-in-china-completely-unfounded-scientists-say
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they don't
agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a conspiracy. A
lab accident, if it happened, is not a conspiracy.
Phil Allison wrote:
"The science is settled" & "I believe in the science" are
catchphrases trotted out to prove one's feelings about AGW have
virtue.
"I believe in science" is a useful phrase because it marks the people
who wouldn't know science if it fell on them.
So does "the science is settled" to a lesser degree.
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
--------------------
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they don't
agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a conspiracy.
** What idiocy.
The term refers to hypotheses of events that require and large number of persons be involved and yet silent on the fact - seemingly indefinitely.
Any believer is required to suspend disbelief about the extreme improbability of that actually being the case.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
"Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
blather
My god you are in need of therapy.
lol
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 9:50:58 PM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/18/1836218/claim-that-covid-19-came-from-
lab-in-china-completely-unfounded-scientists-say
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they don't
agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a conspiracy. A
lab accident, if it happened, is not a conspiracy.
When they say "conspiracy theory" they are referring to the fact that the idea is believed in without much evidence... or in most cases, any substantial evidence.
I posted a day or two ago that there was information that indicated this infection coming from a Wuhan lab was thin, but not unbelievable or however I put it at the time. While the supporting information is scant, there is also very little evidence of the virus originating spontaneously from natural causes and showing up in the wet market.
Our friend Bill seems to be very dismissive of this idea. I agree that the evidence is very thin so at this point it is only a possibility. But the theory that it came from natural means via the Wuhan wet market is equally thin and also only a possibility. As usual Bill can't discuss a topic reasonably, something he has in common with a number of people here.
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 10:36:33 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
"Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
blather
My god you are in need of therapy.
lol
You can laugh, but you are right there sitting next to him on the group W bench.
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 10:14:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
--------------------
People always use the term "conspiracy theory" for any theory they don't
agree with, whether or not it has anything to do with a conspiracy.
** What idiocy.
The term refers to hypotheses of events that require and large number of persons be involved and yet silent on the fact - seemingly indefinitely.
Any believer is required to suspend disbelief about the extreme improbability of that actually being the case.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
That's not accurate. There have been many events that were kept secret by the government for many years before they finally were revealed and acknowledged. One good example is the âTuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male.â The experiment went on for 40 years from 1932 to 1972. It involved who knows how many people in the government knowingly participating. It was only when an employee of the Public Health Service went public to the press that the experiment ended.
This is just one notable example of many people needing to keep quiet to maintain a secret that would not be well received by the general public.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying
saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
That's not accurate. There have been many events that were kept
secret by the government for many years before they finally were
revealed and acknowledged. One good example is the âTuskegee Study of
Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male.â The experiment went on for 40
years from 1932 to 1972. It involved who knows how many people in the
government knowingly participating. It was only when an employee of
the Public Health Service went public to the press that the experiment
ended.
This is just one notable example of many people needing to keep quiet
to maintain a secret that would not be well received by the general
public.
Likely few involved thought they were doing anything "wrong" and it's
unlikely most of the American public would've cared much either prior to
1972 anyway there wouldn't be anyone to tell. Yeah they're doing some
medical experiments on poor black men, whatever.
Doesn't seem like they did much extremely proactive to keep those
experiments much of a "secret" for the majority of the 40 years nobody
gave a shit for the most part.
To have an actual conspiracy I'd argue some significant part of the
conspirators have to believe they're actually doing something bad or
against the law they weren't breaking any laws of the time as far as I know.
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:32:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
To have an actual conspiracy I'd argue some significant part of the
conspirators have to believe they're actually doing something bad or
against the law they weren't breaking any laws of the time as far as I know.
Not the first time you'd think wrong.
Seems like someone disagreed with your opinion. A lot of someones once the news broke.
On 4/18/2020 11:55 PM, Ricky C wrote:
On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:32:57 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
To have an actual conspiracy I'd argue some significant part of the
conspirators have to believe they're actually doing something bad or
against the law they weren't breaking any laws of the time as far as
I know.
Not the first time you'd think wrong.
Seems like someone disagreed with your opinion. A lot of someones
once the news broke.
There was a class-action ethics lawsuit that was settled. Who went to
jail? on what charges? what criminal laws were broken?
"It was only when an employee of the Public Health Service went public
to the press that the experiment ended. "
Not exactly, the study was known about by medical professionals and
academics before 1972 and professionals in the field had accused the
organizers of unethical practice a number of times before and attempted
to draw attention to the matter. Nobody cared:
https://tenor.com/view/nobody-cares-nobody-cares-spongebob-imagination-gif-8176136
Not much of a "conspiracy." More like an "open secret"
The term refers to hypotheses of events that require and large number of persons be involved and yet silent on the fact - seemingly indefinitely.
Any believer is required to suspend disbelief about the extreme improbability of that actually being the case.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
That's not accurate. There have been many events that were kept secret
by the government for many years before they finally were revealed
and acknowledged.
This is just one notable example of many people needing to keep quiet
to maintain a secret that would not be well received by the general
public.
Ricky C wrote:
---------------
Phil Allison wrote:
The term refers to hypotheses of events that require and large number of persons be involved and yet silent on the fact - seemingly indefinitely..
Any believer is required to suspend disbelief about the extreme improbability of that actually being the case.
So far, no such hypotheses have ever proved correct - from flying saucers, flat earth and space aliens running the world and worse.
That's not accurate. There have been many events that were kept secret
by the government for many years before they finally were revealed
and acknowledged.
** Governments rely on privacy/secrecy provisions that all public servants must sign before taking up employment. Sometimes there are anonymous leaks to journalists.
But this it not a conspiracy, which is an agreement between persons carrying out an nefarious act.
One good example is the âTuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male.â The experiment went on for 40 years from 1932 to 1972. It involved who knows how many people in the government knowingly participating. It was only when an employee of the Public Health Service went public to the press that the experiment ended.
** So not a conspiracy - the employee had to risk their future career to do that.
This is just one notable example of many people needing to keep quiet
to maintain a secret that would not be well received by the general
public.
** Such situations are common, in business and government organisations. It is why "whistle blower" laws were created in many places.