Chip with simple program for Toy

[matt]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:38:25 -0500, Sambo <sambo@void.com> wrote:


To follow-up on this - firstly I haven't made up that 'slowdown'
circuit yet, as I've finally managed to contact the guy who came up
with the JEDEC and it transpires that he used a 10ns GAL, so I guess
my 25ns may be too slow?

I've also tried 7ns and 15ns GALs but to no avail.

Perhaps I need to get hold of and try a 10ns GAL?

BTW, is there a JEDEC editor for Windows that a GAL 'dunce' like me
could use?

 

matt wrote:

But since you say it works for someone else, perhaps most likely is
that some other part of your 25 year old board is bad.

The board is okay as it works with the original 82S153 (which I can't
dump and don't have a replacement for - I'm testing the GAL on this
board but it will be going on another board (same type) as that one
has a bad 82S153).

I'm guessing that that guy who created the JEDEC file (a few years ago
now) used a slower GAL.

Maybe your board isn't actually the same as his. There might have been
some minor change.

Maybe you could send the other guy one of your surplus of programmed
GALs and ask him to test it, or even reprogram it for you?

Since you have the working chip, this really would be a good time to
build yourself a truth table extractor using a parallel port - perhaps
even use one of your extra GALs as an I/O expander. Good project,
you'll learn a lot, and likely find a way in which the file you
programmed your GAL with does not duplicate the functionality of the
original.

 

[matt]

On 26 Feb 2006 08:40:58 -0800, cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:

Maybe your board isn't actually the same as his. There might have been
some minor change.

That's possible, but I'm not aware of any changes made to this
particular PCB (Robby Roto was never a popular arcade game).

Maybe you could send the other guy one of your surplus of programmed
GALs and ask him to test it, or even reprogram it for you?

Hmmm, yes - good idea.

Since you have the working chip, this really would be a good time to
build yourself a truth table extractor using a parallel port - perhaps
even use one of your extra GALs as an I/O expander. Good project,
you'll learn a lot, and likely find a way in which the file you
programmed your GAL with does not duplicate the functionality of the
original.

To be honest I wouldn't know where to start - although some schematics
would help. Do any exist on the 'net - a quick search doesn't turn up
anything.

 

[ehsjr]

Joe Brophy wrote:

Why not use a GFCI breaker in the breaker box?

More expensive.
Ed

On 13 Feb 2006 10:06:49 -0800, "w2aew" <w2aew@yahoo.com> wrote:


Rich,

That's not exactly true. The GFCI receptacles have a LINE input and
and LOAD output. Any receptacles connected to the LOAD output
terminals of the GFCI are also protected circuits.

 

matt wrote:

On 26 Feb 2006 08:40:58 -0800, cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:


Maybe your board isn't actually the same as his. There might have been
some minor change.

That's possible, but I'm not aware of any changes made to this
particular PCB (Robby Roto was never a popular arcade game).

I doubt the board is unique to Robby Roto. It's probably used in a
whole range of games from that maker. More interesting question is if
they made all the Robby Roto's at once, or if a Robby Roto consist of
Assy-547, Assy-628, Assy-71 (with rom #521) etc... and could be put
together from these more generic stock components at any time over
several years. You might also have a replacement for a failed original
memory board?

Since you have the working chip, this really would be a good time to
build yourself a truth table extractor using a parallel port - perhaps
even use one of your extra GALs as an I/O expander. Good project,
you'll learn a lot, and likely find a way in which the file you
programmed your GAL with does not duplicate the functionality of the
original.

To be honest I wouldn't know where to start - although some schematics
would help. Do any exist on the 'net - a quick search doesn't turn up
anything.

Read up on parallel port interfacing. Start by learning to turn some
LED's on and off under software control. Learn to read the state of
the status inputs. You may not have enough bits for all the inputs and
outputs, in which case you have the option of using a switch for the
unused input and manually changing it partway through the run. You can
also change the inputs back to the computer - maybe only read half the
chip outputs at a time. Or you can program one of your GALs to
multiplex the signals, but that's a more involved project.

By the way, this is easier with a windows 98 (or dos) or earlier PC,
though there are dirvers such as giveio which will let you program the
parallel port in windows XP.

 

[matt]

On 26 Feb 2006 10:10:28 -0800, cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:

I doubt the board is unique to Robby Roto. It's probably used in a
whole range of games from that maker.

In this case it is as Robby Roto and a few others all shared four of
the stacked boards, while there were two other boards in the rack that
are unique to each game. In this case it's the Memory Board that I'm
having problems with which is unique to Robby Roto.

More interesting question is if
they made all the Robby Roto's at once, or if a Robby Roto consist of
Assy-547, Assy-628, Assy-71 (with rom #521) etc... and could be put
together from these more generic stock components at any time over
several years. You might also have a replacement for a failed original
memory board?

It's definitely an original - matches the schems, serial nos, etc.

Read up on parallel port interfacing. Start by learning to turn some
LED's on and off under software control. Learn to read the state of
the status inputs. You may not have enough bits for all the inputs and
outputs, in which case you have the option of using a switch for the
unused input and manually changing it partway through the run. You can
also change the inputs back to the computer - maybe only read half the
chip outputs at a time. Or you can program one of your GALs to
multiplex the signals, but that's a more involved project.

Sounds simple.

By the way, this is easier with a windows 98 (or dos) or earlier PC,
though there are dirvers such as giveio which will let you program the
parallel port in windows XP.

Thanks - yes, I'm on XP Pro.

 

[Sambo]

matt wrote:

On 26 Feb 2006 10:10:28 -0800, cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:



I doubt the board is unique to Robby Roto. It's probably used in a
whole range of games from that maker.


In this case it is as Robby Roto and a few others all shared four of
the stacked boards, while there were two other boards in the rack that
are unique to each game. In this case it's the Memory Board that I'm
having problems with which is unique to Robby Roto.


More interesting question is if
they made all the Robby Roto's at once, or if a Robby Roto consist of
Assy-547, Assy-628, Assy-71 (with rom #521) etc... and could be put
together from these more generic stock components at any time over
several years. You might also have a replacement for a failed original
memory board?


It's definitely an original - matches the schems, serial nos, etc.

Hmm, was wondering if the ram or rom wasn't different speed.

If the other person used 10ns chips and it worked, then 7 or 15ns should be close enough for a 1.8Mhz design.
Sounds like logic check is in order. What programmer are you using.
Why can't the programmer be used to read the truth table, unless it is something hobby grade as the galblast I found on the net.

Cheers

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"matt" <mattgyma@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:44020386.793590328@news.freeserve.net...

On 26 Feb 2006 10:10:28 -0800, cs_posting@hotmail.com wrote:


I doubt the board is unique to Robby Roto. It's probably used in a
whole range of games from that maker.

In this case it is as Robby Roto and a few others all shared four of
the stacked boards, while there were two other boards in the rack that
are unique to each game. In this case it's the Memory Board that I'm
having problems with which is unique to Robby Roto.

More interesting question is if
they made all the Robby Roto's at once, or if a Robby Roto consist of
Assy-547, Assy-628, Assy-71 (with rom #521) etc... and could be put
together from these more generic stock components at any time over
several years. You might also have a replacement for a failed original
memory board?

It's definitely an original - matches the schems, serial nos, etc.

Read up on parallel port interfacing. Start by learning to turn some
LED's on and off under software control. Learn to read the state of
the status inputs. You may not have enough bits for all the inputs and
outputs, in which case you have the option of using a switch for the
unused input and manually changing it partway through the run. You can
also change the inputs back to the computer - maybe only read half the
chip outputs at a time. Or you can program one of your GALs to
multiplex the signals, but that's a more involved project.

Sounds simple.

By the way, this is easier with a windows 98 (or dos) or earlier PC,
though there are dirvers such as giveio which will let you program the
parallel port in windows XP.

Thanks - yes, I'm on XP Pro.

Checked out the JEDEC and the schematic as far as I can and found no
contradictions. The memory map looks like:

0000-3FFF X1-X4
8000-BFFF X5-X8
C000-CFFF X9-X10
E800-FFFF X22-X24 Write
E000-FFFF X21-X24 Read

Apparently X21 will not be written, that is to say, not by using this
address decoder.

The more I see about it, the more I get the feeling your GAL is not
correctly programmed. Do you have any possibillity to read back your GAL by
another programmer and check whether the JEDEC is read back correctly? If
not, the best you can do is building the hardware I mentioned before. But,
drawing a schematic is no big problem. Not to me. But... then it has to be
build and hooked up to a PC. I would fire up an old DOS machine and write a
quick and dirty GWBASIC or maybe TURBOC program to read the components.
That's a lot of work, guess at least a full day. So if you want the
schematic, just say it.

BTW to learn about parallel port programming (and many other things) look at
http://www.beyondlogic.org/

For your application I like to use the EPP-port best.

petrus bitbyter

 

[Phil Allison]

"Lem"

I'm in the UK. I want to record my landline phone calls.


** With WHAT as the recorder ?

I once made a crude device which had a transformer (don't know its
spec). A pair of wires from one side of the transformer went into
the telephone wall socket and a pair of wires on the other side of
the transformer went to a jack plug which goes into my recorder.
There's a potentiometer adjusts the output level.

It kind of works but not very well and I get too much hum.

What would be a proper circuit to follow?

** Get a small (about 50 mm square) 600 ohm to 600 ohm transformer
rated
for telephone line use.

On the line side, add a 0.22uF, 100volt cap and series resistor of
10
kohms, also fit a 4.7 kohm across the winding.

On the output side, use a pot to match the signal to the mic input of
a
cassette recorder - you can test by making a dummy phone call on the
same
line.

Keep the transformer away from sources of AC hum.



.......... Phil

 

[matt]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:42:02 -0500, Sambo <sambo@void.com> wrote:

Hmm, was wondering if the ram or rom wasn't different speed.

All the 6116's on the board are HM6116LP-4

If the other person used 10ns chips and it worked, then 7 or 15ns should be close enough for a 1.8Mhz design.
Sounds like logic check is in order. What programmer are you using.

A Galep-4 .....

http://www.conitec.com/galep4.htm

Why can't the programmer be used to read the truth table, unless it is something hobby grade as the galblast I found on the net.

Read it from the original 82S153 you mean? If so, afraid it can't
handle that device.

Thanks

 

[matt]

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 02:16:00 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
<pieterkraltlaatditweg@enditookhccnet.nl> wrote:

Checked out the JEDEC and the schematic as far as I can and found no
contradictions. The memory map looks like:

0000-3FFF X1-X4
8000-BFFF X5-X8
C000-CFFF X9-X10

Almost - it's C000-DFFF for X9-X10 - a fault in the JEDEC perhaps?

E800-FFFF X22-X24 Write
E000-FFFF X21-X24 Read

Apparently X21 will not be written, that is to say, not by using this
address decoder.

The 6116 at location X21 is battery backed and used to store high
scores, game settings, etc.

The more I see about it, the more I get the feeling your GAL is not
correctly programmed. Do you have any possibillity to read back your GAL by
another programmer and check whether the JEDEC is read back correctly?

Afraid not, no.

However, it verifies okay with the existing programmer - a Galep-4,
details here on that programmer:

http://www.conitec.com/galep4.htm

If
not, the best you can do is building the hardware I mentioned before. But,
drawing a schematic is no big problem. Not to me. But... then it has to be
build and hooked up to a PC. I would fire up an old DOS machine and write a
quick and dirty GWBASIC or maybe TURBOC program to read the components.
That's a lot of work, guess at least a full day. So if you want the
schematic, just say it.

Thanks for the kind offer - I don't though want to put you to any
unnecessary trouble so let's see how it goes as to alternative
solutions.

BTW to learn about parallel port programming (and many other things) look at
http://www.beyondlogic.org/

For your application I like to use the EPP-port best.

Many thanks.


Cheers

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"matt" <mattgyma@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:4402e16d.850738250@news.freeserve.net...

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 02:16:00 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
pieterkraltlaatditweg@enditookhccnet.nl> wrote:


Checked out the JEDEC and the schematic as far as I can and found no
contradictions. The memory map looks like:

0000-3FFF X1-X4
8000-BFFF X5-X8
C000-CFFF X9-X10

Almost - it's C000-DFFF for X9-X10 - a fault in the JEDEC perhaps?

E800-FFFF X22-X24 Write
E000-FFFF X21-X24 Read

Apparently X21 will not be written, that is to say, not by using this
address decoder.

The 6116 at location X21 is battery backed and used to store high
scores, game settings, etc.

The more I see about it, the more I get the feeling your GAL is not
correctly programmed. Do you have any possibillity to read back your GAL
by
another programmer and check whether the JEDEC is read back correctly?

Afraid not, no.

However, it verifies okay with the existing programmer - a Galep-4,
details here on that programmer:

http://www.conitec.com/galep4.htm

If
not, the best you can do is building the hardware I mentioned before. But,
drawing a schematic is no big problem. Not to me. But... then it has to be
build and hooked up to a PC. I would fire up an old DOS machine and write
a
quick and dirty GWBASIC or maybe TURBOC program to read the components.
That's a lot of work, guess at least a full day. So if you want the
schematic, just say it.

Thanks for the kind offer - I don't though want to put you to any
unnecessary trouble so let's see how it goes as to alternative
solutions.

BTW to learn about parallel port programming (and many other things) look
at
http://www.beyondlogic.org/

For your application I like to use the EPP-port best.

Many thanks.


Cheers

C000-CFFF X9-X10 must be C000-DFFF X9-X10
no JEDEC fault, a petrus typo.

The conitec site seems to have problems at the moment. But FAIK the Galep is
a decent programmer. Guess you kept your software up to date. I'm out of
ideas for the moment

petrus bitbyter

 

[matt]

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:32:19 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
<pieterkraltlaatditweg@enditookhccnet.nl> wrote:

C000-CFFF X9-X10 must be C000-DFFF X9-X10
no JEDEC fault, a petrus typo.

The conitec site seems to have problems at the moment. But FAIK the Galep is
a decent programmer. Guess you kept your software up to date. I'm out of
ideas for the moment

Hmmm, I can access the site okay.

Yes, the Galep is a decent programmer so I would have thought it would
be okay.

Here's a thought - if I was to get the 82S153 dumped, what would be
involved in turning it into a JEDEC?

 

[Christopher]

Hello Lem,

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 23:47:08 GMT, Lem <mail@mail.com> wrote:

I'm in the UK. I want to record my landline phone calls.

Everything you need is at Maplin Electronics in the UK

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=telephone%20recording&doy=27m2&source=15



* * *
Christopher

Temecula CA.USA
http://www.oldtemecula.com

 

[Sambo]

matt wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:42:02 -0500, Sambo <sambo@void.com> wrote:



Hmm, was wondering if the ram or rom wasn't different speed.


All the 6116's on the board are HM6116LP-4


If the other person used 10ns chips and it worked, then 7 or 15ns should be close enough for a 1.8Mhz design.
Sounds like logic check is in order. What programmer are you using.


A Galep-4 .....

http://www.conitec.com/galep4.htm
hmm. the one I have been dreaming about for 2 or 3 years. Over time I guess I transposed verifying devices to reading any device truth table.

Read it from the original 82S153 you mean? If so, afraid it can't
handle that device.

Thanks

Perhaps this is a good time to fire a message to them to provide a program that
can be configures for input/output pins and reading truth tables and then I'll purchase it.

 

[matt]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:24:01 -0500, Sambo <sambo@void.com> wrote:

Perhaps this is a good time to fire a message to them to provide a program that
can be configures for input/output pins and reading truth tables and then I'll purchase it.

Would that be relatively easy to code?

 

[Sambo]

matt wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:24:01 -0500, Sambo <sambo@void.com> wrote:



Perhaps this is a good time to fire a message to them to provide a program that
can be configures for input/output pins and reading truth tables and then I'll purchase it.


Would that be relatively easy to code?


With their "UNIVERSAL PIN DRIVER TECHNOLOGY" should be a piece of cake.

This could be also used for testing regular logic ICs.

 

[Sambo]

matt wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:24:01 -0500, Sambo <sambo@void.com> wrote:



Perhaps this is a good time to fire a message to them to provide a program that
can be configures for input/output pins and reading truth tables and then I'll purchase it.


Would that be relatively easy to code?


With their "UNIVERSAL PIN DRIVER TECHNOLOGY" should be a piece of cake.

This could be also used for testing regular logic ICs.

I have read some time ago about one of those new programmable chips ( little more analog than the rest ) and said to myself "this would be perfect for the heart of a programmer".
If one of those is the heart of Galep....
I emailed them asking about their plans to provide at least basic program that configures power , input and output pins and sends test pattern and reads the outputs, will see what they say. I have seen other programmers in the past, claming to be able to test TTLs and even RAMs.

Cheers

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:23:19 -0500, Ken C <cprstn54@nospam.att.net>
wrote:

Sounds like a strange question,I know.

The questions concerns digital ammeters like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-0-30A-3-1-2-Digital-LED-Amp-Current-meter-Shunt_W0QQitemZ7595502001QQcategoryZ25411QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Does anyone know how much current typically flows in the leads from
the shunt to this kind of digital meter?

I am trying to determine how far I can put the meter from the shunt
without losing accuracy.

---
This is really a digital millivoltmeter reading the drop across the
shunt and, typically, the input impedance to these voltmeters is
about 10 megohms, so the current in the leads (and, thus, the drop
across them) will be negligible compared to what's going through the
shunt.


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Ken C]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:29:39 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

This is really a digital millivoltmeter reading the drop across the
shunt and, typically, the input impedance to these voltmeters is
about 10 megohms, so the current in the leads (and, thus, the drop
across them) will be negligible compared to what's going through the
shunt.

Thank you. I still don't think I have enough information to avoid
trial & error.

The voltage drop along the meter leads will indeed be very small in
absolute amount, but not as a fraction of the voltage drop across the
shunt -- which will also be very small.

I think I need to know either the typical current through the meter
leads or the typical voltage drop across this kind of shunt.

I don't have instruments accurate enough to measure such small
variables. My only recourse is to try different lead lengths and to
see what happens to the readings.

Ken C