Chip with simple program for Toy

[George Herold]

On Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:03:59 PM UTC-5, et...@whidbey.com wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 06:52:00 -0800 (PST), George Herold

gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:


,snip

Greetings George,
You can indeed spin many different metals. I have never worked with
tellurium copper alloy and so can't say whether it can be spun easily.

TeCu machines much nicer the Copper, similar to brass.
(If that makes any difference in spinning.)
But the thermal conductivity is better (than brass).
For the radiation shield it'd be nice to nickel plate it too.

Spinning does work harden the metal. Depending on the amount of
movement from the original disc a part may or may not need annealing.

I'm mostly worried about the conductivity*,
I guess it depends on how much the conductivity changes with work hardening.

Hey, that's interesting. Say I take a piece of copper wire,
Put one end in the vice and pull on the other till it gives a bit.
(I'm sure you've done this, you get a nice straight piece of wire.)
How much does the conductivity change? (Thermal or electrical.)
(Well besides the geometrical effect, longer length, less area)

> Cylindrical cups are hard to spin. especially the ones you describe.
What makes it hard? I don't need sharp corners,
a rounded bottom would be fine.
(In fact I'm a man that likes a round... never mind.)
> You would be better off soldering or welding. Can TeCu be welded? Will

It solders just fine. But soldering never looks great.
(this is for something to sell.)
Hmm, What does it look like if you nickle plate over solder?
I don't know about welding, can you weld brass?

the fumes kill you? One of the first things I attempted to spin was a
"fumes kill you".. Ahh you are thinking of BeCu (Beryllium) maybe

sterling silver shot glass. Tall for its diameter. It was quite a
challenge.

Eric

Thanks for the response. I better move this to metal crafting,
Tomorrow.
George H.

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[Bob Masta]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 13:40:14 -0500, Michael Black
<et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014, RobertMacy wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:01:54 -0700, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

...snip...
Probably Popular Electronics, that often had a speaker project in an issue,
and as I previously said, often written by David Weems.

I certainly remember one article by him about using a drainpipe.

Michael


Bet that's it!

Plus, remember someone made a rack of sixteen, mounted four by four, 4 inch
speakers that made a woofer like you wouldn't believe. Then, someone
complained about all the resonances adding up or such. sigh. you can spend a
lifetime in this and NEVER make much progress.

Jim Kyle had that article about the "Sweet 16", yes lots of speakers and
something about how the multiple speakers null out the bad parts of the
cheap speakers or something like that.

I thought it was just a general speaker, not a woofer, but the accumulated
speakers allowed for bass response.

It was in Popular Electronics in the late fifties or early sixties, I've
seen the article, it's somewhere around here (and might be on the
internet). And for the next decade, there were followup articles, some
arguing against, some in favor, and others extending the idea. I think
there were even commercial versions of it, but there may have been more
planning to those while a review I think I read saw it only as a commecial
version of the Sweet 16.

One factor to consider with speaker arrays is "beaming".
This seems at first counter-intuitive, but adding speakers
along one axis actually constricts the sound on that axis to
a narrower beam, unless you physically angle the speakers to
broaden the coverage. Commercial installations thus use
vertical stacks to put more of the sound into horizontal
coverage. I don't recall ever seeing the converse.

So the Sweet 16 would have had a narrow "sweet spot" for
listening.

As I recall, this was before the days of Thiele and Small
(who gave us scientific box design), and the array was
open-backed. Many speakers were open-backed back then,
which caused loss of bass when the back wave interfered with
the front output. Just the fact of having a wider front
panel, never mind the increased drivers, would have helped
reduce the back-interference. Similar to the effect of an
open-backed but deep box (also popular back then) or a sewer
pipe, it just increased the distance that the back wave had
to travel before interfering with the front wave.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v7.50
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
FREE Signal Generator, DaqMusiq generator
Science with your sound card!

 

[George Herold]

On Friday, January 31, 2014 6:45:19 PM UTC-5, Tim Wescott wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 18:59:19 -0800, George Herold wrote:

snip

Hey, that's interesting. Say I take a piece of copper wire,
Put one end in the vice and pull on the other till it gives a bit.
(I'm sure you've done this, you get a nice straight piece of wire.)
How much does the conductivity change? (Thermal or electrical.)
(Well besides the geometrical effect, longer length, less area)

IIRC hard drawn copper wire is more resistive than annealed by a few
percent. But don't quote me on that.

Seems like an easy experiment,
I was hoping to try it, but no time today.

George H.

--



Tim Wescott

Wescott Design Services

http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 18:59:19 -0800, George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:03:59 PM UTC-5, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 06:52:00 -0800 (PST), George Herold

gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:


,snip

Greetings George,
You can indeed spin many different metals. I have never worked with
tellurium copper alloy and so can't say whether it can be spun easily.
TeCu machines much nicer the Copper, similar to brass.
(If that makes any difference in spinning.)
But the thermal conductivity is better (than brass).
For the radiation shield it'd be nice to nickel plate it too.

Spinning does work harden the metal. Depending on the amount of
movement from the original disc a part may or may not need annealing.
I'm mostly worried about the conductivity*,
I guess it depends on how much the conductivity changes with work
hardening.

Hey, that's interesting. Say I take a piece of copper wire,
Put one end in the vice and pull on the other till it gives a bit.
(I'm sure you've done this, you get a nice straight piece of wire.)
How much does the conductivity change? (Thermal or electrical.)
(Well besides the geometrical effect, longer length, less area)

IIRC hard drawn copper wire is more resistive than annealed by a few
percent. But don't quote me on that.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 20:07:42 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku
<kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2014-01-22, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:
LTspice Tutorials now available on the Simulation Tools & Macros page
of my website...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/

Thank you. There's yet another LTSpice Tutorial at
http://denethor.wlu.ca/ltspice/ . Near the bottom is a list of
references to other helpful sources of information about LTSpice.

LTSpice needs to be overhauled by someone to bring its adherence to UI
conventions forward to 1993.

It's like something written by someone who has been living on an island since
1985, who hasn't received any software update since Windows 3.x running on DOS.

For example, F9 for undo, what the fuck? Ever heard of Ctrl-Z?

Having been using Cadence Virtuoso all this past week I can guess
where the obtuseness in LTspice came from. What a piece of unruly
organization... every activity requires a pull-down menu and a
non-intuitive action to get what you want.

And Virtuoso is the CAD of choice in the semiconductor industry :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-01-29, etpm@whidbey.com <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote:

Thanks Bob and everyone else who replied nto my question. It seems
that making an enclosure that follows the speaker shape is a bad idea.

Not a really a bad idea, it seems many here don't understand the
properties of spun metal.

The nature of spinning is that you're going to end up with some sort of
shell of rotation, you can make all manner of spheroids dome-ended
cylinders, these should all prove to be rigid under the pressure and
mechanical waves the driver will produce, much more rigid than a
wooden box.

You'll still need to line the enclosure to absorb echoes, and this
will probably be a bit more difficult than with a box
as the lining material comes in sheets

On the up side you can also produce all sorts of horns.

--
For a good time: install ntp

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[RobertMacy]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 19:59:19 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
wrote:

...snip...

Hey, that's interesting. Say I take a piece of copper wire,
Put one end in the vice and pull on the other till it gives a bit.
(I'm sure you've done this, you get a nice straight piece of wire.)
How much does the conductivity change? (Thermal or electrical.)
(Well besides the geometrical effect, longer length, less area)

from experience working with 36 Awg, expect ranges of 10-20%

 

[RobertMacy]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 19:31:21 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
wrote:

...snip...

Seems like an easy experiment,
I was hoping to try it, but no time today.

how about tracking the change in legnth?

thick wire: for a 5% increase in length there is an accompanying 5%
decrease in area [volume remains the same], then you'd get 5% increase in
resistance.

let us know results of experiment.

 

[George Herold]

On Saturday, February 1, 2014 9:22:29 AM UTC-5, RobertMacy wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 19:31:21 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com

wrote:



...snip...



Seems like an easy experiment,

I was hoping to try it, but no time today.



how about tracking the change in legnth?



thick wire: for a 5% increase in length there is an accompanying 5%

decrease in area [volume remains the same], then you'd get 5% increase in

resistance.



let us know results of experiment.

OK I'll give it a whirl. (but I'm thinking 5% length change will lead to ~10% resistance change.) (R = rho*Length/Area)
George H.

 

[George Herold]

On Monday, February 3, 2014 11:03:05 AM UTC-5, RobertMacy wrote:

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 08:54:08 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com

wrote:



...snip...



OK I'll give it a whirl. (but I'm thinking 5% length change will lead

to ~10% resistance change.) (R = rho*Length/Area)

George H.







NOW I GET IT!



10% longer AND 10% less area

is 1.1/.9, approximately 20% change in R



let us know what you find!

OK here are the results: I had a piece of 20 AWG
(nomial resistance of 10.1 milli Ohm/ft.)
I sent 1 amp through 152 inches and measured 132.62 mV (about 10.5 milli-ohm/ft)

Length Resistance predicted resistance
(milli ohms) (from area decrease length increase.)
152" 132.63
154" 135.6 136
158" 143.93 143.3
162" 150.9 150.6

So the short anwser is that I see no real change in the resistance except for the topological effects.

George H.

 

[RobertMacy]

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 08:54:08 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
wrote:

...snip...

OK I'll give it a whirl. (but I'm thinking 5% length change will lead
to ~10% resistance change.) (R = rho*Length/Area)
George H.

the volume has to stay the same, so the single other dimension, area, will
reduce in proportion. 10% longer, means 10% less area.

That was my thinking.

Or, more likely than stretching, the @#$!@#$ manufacturers just used less
copper!

 

[RobertMacy]

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 08:54:08 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
wrote:

...snip...

OK I'll give it a whirl. (but I'm thinking 5% length change will lead
to ~10% resistance change.) (R = rho*Length/Area)
George H.

NOW I GET IT!

10% longer AND 10% less area
is 1.1/.9, approximately 20% change in R

let us know what you find!

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-02-03, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

OK here are the results: I had a piece of 20 AWG
(nomial resistance of 10.1 milli Ohm/ft.)
I sent 1 amp through 152 inches and measured 132.62 mV (about 10.5 milli-ohm/ft)

Length Resistance predicted resistance
(milli ohms) (from area decrease length increase.)
152" 132.63
154" 135.6 136
158" 143.93 143.3
162" 150.9 150.6

So the short anwser is that I see no real change in the resistance except for the topological effects.

did you anneal the wire before you started?



--
For a good time: install ntp

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[George Herold]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:05:08 AM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-02-03, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:



OK here are the results: I had a piece of 20 AWG

(nomial resistance of 10.1 milli Ohm/ft.)

I sent 1 amp through 152 inches and measured 132.62 mV (about 10.5 milli-ohm/ft)



Length Resistance predicted resistance

(milli ohms) (from area decrease length increase.)

152" 132.63

154" 135.6 136

158" 143.93 143.3

162" 150.9 150.6



So the short anwser is that I see no real change in the resistance except for the topological effects.



did you anneal the wire before you started?

Nope, just took it off a spool.
hmm how hot do I need to get it to anneal it?

George H.

--

For a good time: install ntp



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[RobertMacy]

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 10:23:16 -0700, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com>
wrote:

...snip...

OK here are the results: I had a piece of 20 AWG
(nomial resistance of 10.1 milli Ohm/ft.)
I sent 1 amp through 152 inches and measured 132.62 mV (about 10.5
milli-ohm/ft)

Length Resistance predicted resistance
(milli ohms) (from area decrease length increase.)
152" 132.63
154" 135.6 136
158" 143.93 143.3
162" 150.9 150.6

So the short anwser is that I see no real change in the resistance
except for the topological effects.

George H.

THANKS

So, that explains why the impedance of my 36 Awg wire is waaay high AFTER
carefully winding it! Also, why I got more turns on than expected. duh!

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-02-04, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:05:08 AM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2014-02-03, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:



OK here are the results: I had a piece of 20 AWG

(nomial resistance of 10.1 milli Ohm/ft.)

I sent 1 amp through 152 inches and measured 132.62 mV (about 10.5 milli-ohm/ft)



Length Resistance predicted resistance

(milli ohms) (from area decrease length increase.)

152" 132.63

154" 135.6 136

158" 143.93 143.3

162" 150.9 150.6



So the short anwser is that I see no real change in the resistance except for the topological effects.



did you anneal the wire before you started?

Nope, just took it off a spool.
hmm how hot do I need to get it to anneal it?

red hot.
(gas flame etc)

you'll know when you're done becase it'll be much softer

--
For a good time: install ntp

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On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:08:18 AM UTC-8, Jim Thompson wrote:

Californica...



http://tinyurl.com/mh53msb



The preliminaries to Obamafornica for the whole US.





...Jim Thompson

--

| James E.Thompson | mens |

| Analog Innovations | et |

| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |

| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |

| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |

| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |



I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Californistan.

Get it right.

 

[Bret Cahill]

It would be much more difficult for me to find a comparable incident in Arizona,

since nothing happens in Arizona. I might be able to come up with a lizard

invasion or something.

Nothing _bad_ ever happens in AZ. No hurricanes, no earthquakes . . . fires are up in tribal and gummint land.

The real question is if anything really good happens in AZ.

The entire state is living on the SS mental disability program, that and jalapeno peppers.

A produce guy from Casa Grande told me that they had 3 jalapeno combine harvesters. Horrified at the overproduction miscalculation I told him that North America was basically uninhabited and that there there was no market for tones of peppers.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:08:53 -0800 (PST), mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:08:18 AM UTC-8, Jim Thompson wrote:
Californica...

http://tinyurl.com/mh53msb

The preliminaries to Obamafornica for the whole US.

...Jim Thompson

--
[snip]

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Californistan.

Get it right.

Sno-o-o-o-ort >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

On Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:26:55 PM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:

It would be much more difficult for me to find a comparable incident in Arizona,



since nothing happens in Arizona. I might be able to come up with a lizard



invasion or something.



Nothing _bad_ ever happens in AZ. No hurricanes, no earthquakes . . . fires are up in tribal and gummint land.

Nothing bad? Aren't a bunch of national parks closed due to armed Mexican cartel activity?