Chip with simple program for Toy

[Pig Bladder]

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:18:08 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:

In article <SbadneDJQeo0-mHcRVn-iQ@scnresearch.com>,
Don Taylor <dont@agora.rdrop.com> wrote:

So, what hardware can we feasibly build?
thanks

How much money do you have? The more complex solutions get expensive to
do. If you consider logic in a CPLD or FPGA as hardware, you can make
lots of stuff.

A funny sort of hard drive circuit would be one idea. An image of the
normal harddrive is made and kept. A circuit causes a second hard drive
to write the time and the data every time the systems C drive is written
and what is written is different that the old image.

This would give you a log of all the changes to C drive with the times.
When a virus is detected, you can step the system back in time by going
through the log in reverse order.

Boy, you people sure do seem to want to jump through a bunch of hoops, to
achieve the privelege of continuing to kiss Uncle Bill's ass.

You could install Linux, and never have another virus, spyware, finkware,
slutware, whatever!
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.

 

[Mark Jones]

Mark Jones wrote:

Jack// ani wrote:

Hi all,

I'm using El Cheapo PICmicro Programmer by Mike Predko's for learning
uC. I don't know whether the software work in WindowsXP or not?? But
while programming I get error: Programming Failure at Address 0x00,
0x02805 was written, but 0x03fff was Read Back. And when I try to
verify I get, PICmicro MCU does not have Correct Instruction at Address
0x00, 0x02805 was expected, but 0x03fff is the actual. What could be
the problem? Is this hardware problem or operating system problem?
Any help is highly appreciated.

Thanks a lot.




Hi Jack. Does this require your chip to have a bootloader already downloaded
onto it?

"3FFF" is equivalent to "not programmed" so what it's saying is, if the chip is
supposed to have data there, it is either blank or not being programmed.

Make sure the PIC's MCLR pin is being driven to +13v during the programming
cycle. Also MCLR should have a 33k pullup resistor to Vcc. Hope that helps.

Ooops, by Vcc I meant Vdd. Connect MCLR --> 33k --> +5v, not +13.

 

[Lord Garth]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.01.31.09.24.44.952521@example.net...

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:32:43 +0000, john jardine wrote:


This sounds like Windows Messaging. Log out and log in as administrator.
Right-click the "My Computer" icon on the desktop, then click "Manage".
under Services and Applications/Services , right-click "Messenger", and
"Stop". Log out and log in as yourself.

Good Luck!
Rich

Hey Rich,
Find the file SYSOC.INF in the C:\windows\inf folder....edit out 'HIDE'
everyplace you find it in that file. Save the file. Go into CONTROL PANEL,
ADD / REMOVE PROGRAMS. After the screen fills, click ADD/REMOVE
WINDOWS COMPONENTS. Kill messengers two entries near the bottom of
the list.

Note, there is a bug here (Noooooo! say it ain't so!) when you click on
the
second box to un-mark the entry, the mark will not disappear until you
scroll
a bit.

This change, in addition to your tip will kill the little bastard. BTW, you
can
go to GRC.COM and get his DCOMbobulator, Shoot the Messenger and UPNP
programs. Very small routines used to fill the appropriate hole in Windows.

 

John,

I'm glad it worked for you.

One thing to note is that on my old machine it took all three programs
to rid me of it. AVG got two "main?" .exe files while it took the
other two anti-spyware progs to clean up the rest.

Before I downloaded the very latest AVG definitions it'd miss coolWWW
and the anti-spyware looked like they'd gotten everything... but it'd
always promptly return.

Each systems a little different though.

Regards,

Andrew.



On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:19:13 -0000, "john jardine"
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:07hqv05bg7k37v64i3dme4n4gc1gbkcrq6@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:32:43 -0000, "john jardine"
john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


Rubicon> wrote in message news:41fdb5a4.2546132@news.netaccess.co.nz...

John,

I've only just gotten rid of it myself.

Spybot was useless but didn't crash on my machine. Ad-Aware SE
Personal combined with the trial version of Spy Sweeper along with the
new AVG Free and all with the latest definitions finally managed to do
it.

The Spyware/Adware/Malware/Spam E-Mail just seems to be getting worse.
I'm becomming more and more reluctant to go online because of the
immense frustration at trying to get rid of them afterwards.

Good luck.

Andrew.


Pleased to know it's actually possible to get rid of the f***ing thing.
I've just downloaded those 3 software items and will give 'em a try. What
I'm ill at ease with, is paying for anti-virus software. The cynical part
of
me is suspecting I'd then be actively propping up the whole nightmare.

Past day or so I've been using Firefox as the browser which has been no
problem. But the major scumware component is still present somewhere in
windows and I'm seeing the Internet-Explorer browser opening up over the
top
of Firefox (or this outlook express) every 6 minutes or so and
advertising
crap. Even has the cheek to rattle my a: floppy disc drive and then put
up
an antivrus advert.

Even have my own f***ing bank advertising with coolWWW, so am having to
pursue with vigour and extreme predjudice, the bank's marketing people.
Each
hour megabytes of scumware programmes are self installing all over the
hard
disc, along with scum porn and ringtone icons littered everywhere.
They'll
continously alter the 'host.TXT' file, the start up prog list, the active
running progs,the home page, the IE addons and numerous registry entries.
In addition to this, the scumware also enjoys auto-altering certain
"permissions" on IE (an oxymoron if ever I saw one) so I can't close it
down
or get at the 'options tab etc. Have now to run another prog called
'permissions' to reset a number of IE check boxes before I can even start
removing the rubbish that's come in.
Even tried to remove IE itself http://www.litepc.com/ieradicator.html
but
this prog is worthless.
I tried reinstalling windows, but no joy as it assumes existing files are
OK. There's only a couple of self supporting virus/trojan files at work
but
windows is littered across 1000's of files so manually finding 'em is
damned
near impossible. Can't even just delete all the windows files as any
normal
software install will bung masses of unknown .exes, .dlls, junk, etc, in
among the windows stuff. Jesus H Christ, windows is a f***ing mess.
'Spybot', 'miniremoval', 'CWshredder', 'Hijackthis', 'Win patrolExplorer'
(and about 4 others!), have proved useless and I just hope that your
suggestions will work for me.
If not, then I'm looking to manually dismantle as much of Internet
Explorer
as I can without unduly crippling windows (or Firefox).

10/10 for whoever wrote this POS. I just wish the major software
companies
would make their products as reliable.

regards
john


Knocking on wood... I'm very impressed with Mozilla Firefox. NO
adware since I switched from IE. And I don't need StopZilla or Cookie
Pal anymore.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Same here Jim. I'm very pleased.
Although I emptied the IE cache store every week, there were usually about
50-100 'tracking cookies' to be found in it.

Also, looks like 'Ad-Aware SE Personal' has managed to kill 'CoolWWW' !!!.
It wasn't just-a-couple of files like I thought, but 39 separate CoolWWW
*.DLLs files, 58 registry changes, plus 44 other *.exe and *.DLL scumwares
belonging to 5 other sales outfits. Big problem was a counterfeit MStask.exe
running as if normal. It took 3 locks ups and 2 crashes before Ad-Aware
winkled them all out. All this grief is the result of my visiting a porn
site two weeks ago. Let one in and they hold the door open for the rest.

I'll give it a couple of days and hope I can thank Andrew for the recommend.
regards
john

 

[Robert Monsen]

Fred Abse wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:57:03 -0800, Robert Monsen wrote:


Even linux, with it's macrokernel and loaded dlls that run in the kernel,


Not sure what you mean there, Robert. Are you referring to loadable kernel
modules? That's all I can imagine you mean, since the kernel does not use
shared libraries.

It would be quite a feat to insinuate malicious kernel modules, run
depmod, then get modprobe to load them.

If you have root access, anything is possible. Preventing root access
has always been the problem with unix systems. Replacing kernel modules
would be trivial with root access.

The real problem with linux, however, is the complexity of what runs in
the kernel. The number of developers whose hands are in there is
enormous, when you consider networking, file systems, scheduler, and
devices. Any of these subsystems could have a (possibly unrecognized)
backdoor that could be exploited. This leads to allowing users root
access, leanding to security holes. A microkernel is far less likely to
allow this sort of exploit.

I spent time helping to secure a linux network appliance, and
applications that act as servers usually require root privs. That means
they are susceptible to inadvertently allowing root access. You might be
suprised at how easy this sort of problem is to overlook. Again, this is
a big problem with unix. You might recall the issues that sendmail and
bind have had. Most of these are user setup problems, as the developers
are quick to point out, but that doesn't really help if your system is
compromised. There are so many knobs on a typical linux app that people
tend to tweak the knobs just to see what's up. Disaster waiting to
happen. Often, they don't even need user access to use your system for
no good.

Once the hacker gets root access, and installs a root kit, you will
never know he is there, even while you are using the system. You think
you own the machine, but you really don't... It could be sending spam,
being used as a platform for denial of service attacks, etc. There was a
raft of problems in the last few years with spammers using improperly
installed sendmails as relays. They use it till your ISP turns off your
account, or you get blacklisted, in which case your email is then
forever dropped at most major hubs.

However, the spyware sickos are a whole different breed. They don't need
to hack the kernel on Windows. They trick users into installing
malicious applications, and later start up these malicious applications
which then monitor what's going on. There is nothing stopping somebody
from doing this with linux as well. User programs can almost always
write into their own bins, modify their startup files, edit their .kde
or .gnome files, etc. They can read any file the user owns, monitor
network traffic, etc.

The fact that it takes somebody who knows a bit to set up and maintain a
linux box means that most linux users are probably somewhat less
oblivious to the risks, and secure their boxes more carefully, and are
thus less prone to problems. Let's see what happens when everybody's
mother is running linux, and the support for the 200 million users is
Linus Torvolds and 100 teenage undergrads.

The hope that linux will help in any way with spyware or adware is just
more wishful thinking.

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

[Steve Rush]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:38:32 -0500, Mark Jones wrote:

I can second this motion. I switched to FireFox and Thunderbird...
got lots of new features, it's faster, no popups, no "window
maximizing", no "webpages which play annoying music", no malware...
can't say enough good things about switching. You'll be glad you did!

Why not go the rest of the way and defenestrate? If you have a broadband
connection and a CD burner, you can get the Knoppix ISO free from
www.distrowatch.com. The Knoppix CD is bootable; you can get a look at
Linux without writing anything at all to your hard disk.

I run Fedora Core 3, the free branch of Red Hat Linux, dual-booting with
WinXP. Except for a really cool implementation of Conway's Game of Life
(look for life32.exe) I haven't used Windows in months. I may delete
the XP partition and give the whole disk to Linux. There are Linux
workalikes, most of them open-source, for most Windows apps, including
Microsoft Office. My most important anti-malware measure is to physically
unplug the network cable before booting Windows.

 

[john jardine]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.01.31.09.24.44.952521@example.net...

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:32:43 +0000, john jardine wrote:

Pleased to know it's actually possible to get rid of the f***ing thing.
I've just downloaded those 3 software items and will give 'em a try.
What
I'm ill at ease with, is paying for anti-virus software. The cynical
part of
me is suspecting I'd then be actively propping up the whole nightmare.

Past day or so I've been using Firefox as the browser which has been no
problem. But the major scumware component is still present somewhere in
windows and I'm seeing the Internet-Explorer browser opening up over the
top
of Firefox (or this outlook express) every 6 minutes or so and
advertising
crap. Even has the cheek to rattle my a: floppy disc drive and then put
up
an antivrus advert.

This sounds like Windows Messaging. Log out and log in as administrator.
Right-click the "My Computer" icon on the desktop, then click "Manage".
under Services and Applications/Services , right-click "Messenger", and
"Stop". Log out and log in as yourself.

I don't know if you'll have to do this every time you boot. I did it
before, and was kind of surprised to see that it's started itself again.

Good Luck!
Rich

"Administrator", WTFsT?. I think that must be a later version of windows.
Every time I hear that word I remember a particularly stupid, overpaid chap,
with a goatee beard, cheap suit, gold cuff-links, unwashed shiny tie and a
real bad, snotty attitude. TBH I'm only on win98 cos it's got USB facility.
I'd probably even be happier with GEM. One day I'll move to the Linux thing.
I'm clear of crap now and have Spy-Sweeper running in the background but
still gave Garth's Decombobulator a go
regards
john

 

[Mark Jones]

Steve Rush wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:38:32 -0500, Mark Jones wrote:


I can second this motion. I switched to FireFox and Thunderbird...
got lots of new features, it's faster, no popups, no "window
maximizing", no "webpages which play annoying music", no malware...
can't say enough good things about switching. You'll be glad you did!


Why not go the rest of the way and defenestrate? If you have a broadband
connection and a CD burner, you can get the Knoppix ISO free from
www.distrowatch.com. The Knoppix CD is bootable; you can get a look at
Linux without writing anything at all to your hard disk.

I run Fedora Core 3, the free branch of Red Hat Linux, dual-booting with
WinXP. Except for a really cool implementation of Conway's Game of Life
(look for life32.exe) I haven't used Windows in months. I may delete
the XP partition and give the whole disk to Linux. There are Linux
workalikes, most of them open-source, for most Windows apps, including
Microsoft Office. My most important anti-malware measure is to physically
unplug the network cable before booting Windows.

I've thought about this [trying 'nix again]. I tried a version of RedHat back
in '01 (nifty Matrix-style screensaver, heh.) I didn't use WiNE or any other
translator. The problem arises in the number of PC-only apps I use daily for
which there is no 'nix port for. Without half these windows programs I'm sunk.
It sucks being "locked in" to Microsoft - guess they'd say that's a good
buisness plan though. Could one honestly expect an app like
http://labcenter.co.uk to run emulated, and even run well on 'nix?

I was very suprised to run across ePSXe - a PlayStation1 Emulator for the PC.
Lo and behold, run the emulator, put in your playstation disc, and it runs! I
guess this shouldn't be so amazing, but considering the archetecture is
completely different...


-- "Abhorred is the day when it's all figured out." MCJ 200402

 

[Fred Abse]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:33:44 -0800, Robert Monsen wrote:

Fred Abse wrote:
[quoted text muted]
If you have root access, anything is possible. Preventing root access has
always been the problem with unix systems. Replacing kernel modules would
be trivial with root access.

True, the name of the game is preventing unauthorized people getting root
access. Easier said than done, sometimes.

The real problem with linux, however, is the complexity of what runs in
the kernel. The number of developers whose hands are in there is
enormous,

OTOH, there's a large amount of peer review. Closed-source can by its
nature not get the same scrutiny.

when you consider networking, file systems, scheduler, and
devices. Any of these subsystems could have a (possibly unrecognized)
backdoor that could be exploited.

This has happened, and will continue to happen. However the likelihood of
its being spotted is much greater, and, once spotted, patches appear in
days, sometimes hours.

Hell, Microsoft are still releasing fixes for such basic things as buffer
overruns on Win2K. We're now in 2K5


This leads to allowing users root

access, leanding to security holes. A microkernel is far less likely to
allow this sort of exploit.

I agree about microkernels. Sadly, as you said yourself, nobody has yet
made a usable system out of one.

I spent time helping to secure a linux network appliance, and
applications that act as servers usually require root privs.

I'll concede that some server apps need to be suid root. Good ones won't
even install for userid 0.

That means
they are susceptible to inadvertently allowing root access.

Not per se.

You might be

suprised at how easy this sort of problem is to overlook.

Believe me, I'm not.

Again, this is
a big problem with unix. You might recall the issues that sendmail and
bind have had. Most of these are user setup problems, as the developers
are quick to point out, but that doesn't really help if your system is
compromised. There are so many knobs on a typical linux app that people
tend to tweak the knobs just to see what's up. Disaster waiting to
happen. Often, they don't even need user access to use your system for
no good.

That's down to poor quality administration.

Once the hacker gets root access, and installs a root kit, you will
never know he is there, even while you are using the system. You think
you own the machine, but you really don't... It could be sending spam,
being used as a platform for denial of service attacks, etc. There was a
raft of problems in the last few years with spammers using improperly
installed sendmails as relays. They use it till your ISP turns off your
account, or you get blacklisted, in which case your email is then
forever dropped at most major hubs.

Most major ISPs are actvely probing their address space for open relays,
now. Should have happened five years ago.

However, the spyware sickos are a whole different breed. They don't need
to hack the kernel on Windows. They trick users into installing
malicious applications, and later start up these malicious applications
which then monitor what's going on. There is nothing stopping somebody
from doing this with linux as well. User programs can almost always
write into their own bins, modify their startup files, edit their .kde
or .gnome files, etc. They can read any file the user owns, monitor
network traffic, etc.

At least that approach will only screw up one account. It won't take the
system down.

The fact that it takes somebody who knows a bit to set up and maintain a
linux box means that most linux users are probably somewhat less
oblivious to the risks, and secure their boxes more carefully, and are
thus less prone to problems. Let's see what happens when everybody's
mother is running linux, and the support for the 200 million users is
Linus Torvolds and 100 teenage undergrads.

I hope that day never comes. I like being in a minority. However, if it
ever does, support will be much the same as it is now with Windows. The
big box-shifters provide support to their customers. OEMs provide support.
Linux distros provide support. How many end users, other than large
corporates get support direct from Microsoft?

Linus Torvalds does provide (expensive) support, mainly to distros. I
doubt there are many teenage undergrads on his team. Postgrads in their
twenties, perhaps. Linux is a business, now.

The hope that linux will help in any way with spyware or adware is just
more wishful thinking.

I don't think we disagree about that.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)

 

[Anthony Fremont]

dave.harper wrote:

I'm switching over to PICs from Basic Stamps due speed, capacity, and
price reasons. I've already purchased a semi-universal programmer,
and am looking a couple good PICs to start with. I was thinking
about a lower end PIC for simple projects, and a mid-range PIC for
more advanced stuff. I has thinking about the 12F629 for the low-end
stuff, and the 16F88 for mid-range stuff. Would these be good PICs
to start with?

I've never used a 12F myself, but that's just because I didn't have any.
They should be fine for small projects where you only want a few i/o
pins. Since I've never used one personally, the rest of my response
will be on the 16F88.

For the 16F's, I started on the F84 (a few moons ago ;-) and then
switched to the 16F628. Now, I'm tinkering with a 16F88. I like it,
but it's a bit sensitive to PS noise. Be sure to use bypass caps on the
cpu or you will likely see mysterious device resets. This is the first
PIC I've used that has a real ADC in it (the F628 just has comparators).
I just used the ADC for the first time yesterday, worked like a champ
first time out. ;-) The 16F88 is also a member of the nanowatt PIC
family and really uses a miniscule amount of power.

Note: I just noticed a warning in the datasheet saying to use a pull-up
resistor >1k on the MCLR line instead of tying it directly to Vdd or
latch-up may occur due to spikes. Hmm....I guess I better change my
methods. I've always just tied it high on the other PICs with no ill
effects.

Also, apparently these come with their own internal oscillators. Am I

Yes, the 88 has a multiple speed internal oscillator that runs from
31KHz to 8MHz. It's reasonably accurate for most projects (+/- 1%
typical at 25C). I wouldn't depend on it in production if rs-232 comms
are going to be used, especially over any realistic temperature range.

correct in understanding that these will not need crystals unless I
want to clock them at different speeds?

I would recommend you use crystals if you need clock time accuracy or
even with serial comms. If you can live with a little bit of
inaccuracy, the internal oscillator is fine.

Do external oscillators add
any benefit for these PICs? Speed? etc?

You can crank the F88 up to 20MHz if you use a crystal.

Thanks in advance for any insight...

The 18F452 might be interesting to you. It will run at up to 40MHz
using a 10MHz crystal giving you a 100nS instruction cycle time. It
also has certain advantages over the 16F's in terms of the instruction
set and the architecture.

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"dave.harper" <dave.harper@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1107360412.738600.152230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I'm switching over to PICs from Basic Stamps due speed, capacity, and
price reasons. I've already purchased a semi-universal programmer, and
am looking a couple good PICs to start with. I was thinking about a
lower end PIC for simple projects, and a mid-range PIC for more
advanced stuff. I has thinking about the 12F629 for the low-end stuff,
and the 16F88 for mid-range stuff. Would these be good PICs to start
with?

Also, apparently these come with their own internal oscillators. Am I
correct in understanding that these will not need crystals unless I
want to clock them at different speeds? Do external oscillators add
any benefit for these PICs? Speed? etc?
Thanks in advance for any insight...

Dave

Look at: http://www.voti.nl/e_index.html
for a lot of PICinfo.

petrus bitbyter

 

[Jamie]

dave.harper wrote:

I'm switching over to PICs from Basic Stamps due speed, capacity, and
price reasons. I've already purchased a semi-universal programmer, and
am looking a couple good PICs to start with. I was thinking about a
lower end PIC for simple projects, and a mid-range PIC for more
advanced stuff. I has thinking about the 12F629 for the low-end stuff,
and the 16F88 for mid-range stuff. Would these be good PICs to start
with?

Also, apparently these come with their own internal oscillators. Am I
correct in understanding that these will not need crystals unless I
want to clock them at different speeds? Do external oscillators add
any benefit for these PICs? Speed? etc?
Thanks in advance for any insight...

Dave

most of the pics have the internal osc, you only need to supply Xstal or

Cap (depending in which one) to get the internal clock to operate.
after you have master the pic, there are also things like the ATMEL
chips (AVR), they use linear addressing.

 

[Jim Douglas]

Get the free stuff from Microsoft, it's seems to be OK, I have been using
and checking the results against other programs and so far 100%

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:2j5kv05pqvarkhnvn2nfu64248nl2ih6er@4ax.com...

I was surprised to learn today that all anti-adware and anti-spyware
programs perform so badly. Here's an extract of the ranking, from
'Anti-adware misses most malware' By Brian Livingston, in
http://windowssecrets.com/050127/

Product Adware Fixed
---------------- ------------
Giant AntiSpyware 63%
Webroot Spy Sweeper 48%
Ad-Aware SE Personal 47%
Pest Patrol 41%
SpywareStormer 35%
Intermute SpySubtract Pro 34%
PC Tools Spyware Doctor 33%
Spybot Search & Destroy 33%
McAfee AntiSpyware 33%
Xblock X-Cleaner Deluxe 31%
XoftSpy 27%
NoAdware 24%
Aluria Spyware Eliminator 23%
OmniQuad AntiSpy 16%
Spyware COP 15%
SpyHunter 15%
SpyKiller 2005 15%

So, given that there must be great overlap, I reckon my
frequently-used combination of Ad-Aware SE Personal and Spybot Search
& Destroy is catching little more than half the malware reaching me.
Unsettling.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Byron A Jeff]

In article <1107360412.738600.152230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
dave.harper <dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote:
<I'm switching over to PICs from Basic Stamps due speed, capacity, and
<price reasons. I've already purchased a semi-universal programmer, and
<am looking a couple good PICs to start with. I was thinking about a
<lower end PIC for simple projects, and a mid-range PIC for more
<advanced stuff. I has thinking about the 12F629 for the low-end stuff,
<and the 16F88 for mid-range stuff. Would these be good PICs to start
<with?

Yes for the 16F88. It come fully packed with peripherals and memory.
For the 8 pin package maybe the 16F683 may be a better choice. It's also
nanowatt (with the internal oscillator), and has 2K of code space.

<
<Also, apparently these come with their own internal oscillators. Am I
<correct in understanding that these will not need crystals unless I
<want to clock them at different speeds?

To a point. As nanowatt parts, they have an internal 8 Mhz oscillator
coupled with a on the fly frequency divider that goes down to 31250 Hz.

< Do external oscillators add
<any benefit for these PICs? Speed? etc?

You'll need crystals or resonators for 2 types of situations:

1) You need better performance than the 8Mhz can give you. Both parts run up
to 20 Mhz with an external oscillator.

2) You need tighter frequency tolerances for the USART for example.

Hope this helps,

BAJ

 

[Rich Grise]

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 10:40:56 -0500, Mark Jones wrote:

Steve Rush wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:38:32 -0500, Mark Jones wrote:
I can second this motion. I switched to FireFox and Thunderbird...
got lots of new features, it's faster, no popups, no "window
maximizing", no "webpages which play annoying music", no malware...
can't say enough good things about switching. You'll be glad you did!
Why not go the rest of the way and defenestrate? If you have a broadband
connection and a CD burner, you can get the Knoppix ISO free from
www.distrowatch.com. The Knoppix CD is bootable; you can get a look at
Linux without writing anything at all to your hard disk.
I run Fedora Core 3, the free branch of Red Hat Linux, dual-booting with
WinXP. Except for a really cool implementation of Conway's Game of Life
(look for life32.exe) I haven't used Windows in months. I may delete
the XP partition and give the whole disk to Linux. There are Linux
workalikes, most of them open-source, for most Windows apps, including
Microsoft Office. My most important anti-malware measure is to physically
unplug the network cable before booting Windows.

I've thought about this [trying 'nix again]. I tried a version of RedHat back
in '01 (nifty Matrix-style screensaver, heh.) I didn't use WiNE or any other
translator. The problem arises in the number of PC-only apps I use daily for
which there is no 'nix port for. Without half these windows programs I'm sunk.
It sucks being "locked in" to Microsoft - guess they'd say that's a good
buisness plan though. Could one honestly expect an app like
http://labcenter.co.uk to run emulated, and even run well on 'nix?

I don't know why not, if there's a decent emulator yet.

If you've paid for the program, what are the odds of getting source code
and porting it?

I was very suprised to run across ePSXe - a PlayStation1 Emulator for the PC.
Lo and behold, run the emulator, put in your playstation disc, and it runs! I
guess this shouldn't be so amazing, but considering the archetecture is
completely different...

That's nothing! Check out MAME! http://www.mame.net/

Runs every arcade game that's ever been made! And it's even available for
Linux, although I haven't looked deeply into configuring it yet; when I'm
going to sit and play, it's simpler to just unplug the network and boot
'doze.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Wouter van Ooijen (www.vo]

I'm switching over to PICs from Basic Stamps due speed, capacity, and
price reasons. I've already purchased a semi-universal programmer, and
am looking a couple good PICs to start with. I was thinking about a
lower end PIC for simple projects, and a mid-range PIC for more
advanced stuff. I has thinking about the 12F629 for the low-end stuff,
and the 16F88 for mid-range stuff. Would these be good PICs to start
with?

That depends on what you need. The 12F629 is a bit short on I/O pins,
but of course very cheap. The 16F88 is the king of the 18-pins 14-bit
core chips, but you might want more pins (maybe an 16F877A) and/or
more CPU power (18Fxxx). Personally I think the 16F630/676 are very
good value for money. There is so much to choose from. Just stay clear
of the 16x84(a) unless you are building an existing project and don't
want to modify the code.

The internal oscillator means the you need fewer components and (for
some chips) can change speed on the fly. Be aware that the internal
oscillator is not very accurate.




Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
Webshop for PICs and other electronics
http://www.voti.nl/hvu
Teacher electronics and informatics

 

[Wouter van Ooijen (www.vo]

Thanks Jeff. As a follow-up, will the internal oscillator be good
enough for serial communication up to, say, 9600 bps? Under what
circumstances would I need tighter tolerances for the USART?

Yes for on-the-bench work at 20 degrees Celcius and a 5.0 Volt supply
and an 'other side' that has an accurate clock.

No for serious production.


Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
Webshop for PICs and other electronics
http://www.voti.nl/hvu
Teacher electronics and informatics

 

[tkirk]

I know this thread is a bit old, but thought I'd reply anyway in case
anyone is doing a search on a similar problem.

At the company I work for (Rogue Engineering Inc.), we ran into a
similar problem where we were trying to set up a radio
converter/repeater station that also had a PLC attached to it.
Essentially, we needed a full 3-way communications hub for serial data
at RS-232 signal levels. To solve this problem, we designed a 3 port
half-duplex RS-232 hub. The 3 ports are identical, and any incoming
message to one of the hubs ports will be echoed out the other 2 ports.
While a message is incoming on one port, the other two ports are locked
out from incoming messages until the first port is done, and a short
time-out period (~1 ms) has expired. It works great as long as you are
using a half-duplex communication protocol, such as Modbus, and is much
better than the so-called "smart" data switches I've seen out there
that require you to modify your communications protocol to work with
them.

We also decided to go ahead and sell the device to the public. It is
available from a distributor we work with, RawIQ for approximately
$100. Their website is www.rawiq.com Both DB-9 and euroterm wiring
connectors are available for each of the 3 ports. Total current
consumption is less than 20mA typical including RS-232 drivers at a
single supply voltage of between 4 and 18V.

Tim Kirk
tkirk@rogue-engr.com
Electronics Design Engineer
www.rogue-engr.com


Steve Fisher wrote:

A while back I asked this question and received the following answer.
I tried to build the device in the ANSWER, but I can't get it to
work.
Any ideas as to what is wrong?


QUESTION:
I am currently working on a project that requires I connect a device
mid-stream in an RS-232 connection to send data to one end.
The system I am trying to connect to:
There are two computers (A and B) currently connected via an RS-232
cable. I want to connect a device (like a barcode scanner) to one end
and have it send data to the other but I still need the two computers
to carry on a "normal" RS-232 conversation.
Basically this is an RS-232 wedge.


ANSWER:
Based on your message, it looks like you can do it nicely
with two signal diodes, 1N4148, and two 4.7K resistors.
When the RS-232 devices are all idle, there is a negative voltage on
the signal lines. Data is transmitted by pulling the signal lines
positive in pulses. I'll attempt a drawing....

(NOTE: This "drawing" must be displayed in a fixed font such as
Courier to line up correctly)

computer 1 -------4.7Kresistor--------|
| 1N4148 | |
|------|>|---------| |
|-------- computer 2
|------|>|---------| |
| 1N4148 | |
Handheld -------4.7Kresistor--------|

The resistors and diodes "isolate" the two sending devices from
each other but still allow them to talk to computer 2.

The network only has to be put into the line for one wire, the
one connected to computer 2's input.

 

[Lord Garth]

"KILOWATT" <kilowatt"nospam"@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:ibDOd.25522$Ub4.1071748@news20.bellglobal.com...

Hi everyones...thanks to read. Please check the following link:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3872692720&fromMakeTrack=t
rue
With a proper enclosure, circulating fan, a timer circuit, and the item
descibed there, do you think that i would have all the components to make
an
inexpensive but efficient Ozone generator? TIA

Alain, you can do as well with any fluorescent lamp and a germicidal tube to
match.
I would not pay over $10 for this including shipping.

I have to vent my UV EPROM eraser due to the ozone it produces. Heed the
warnings
to protect your eyes...I lightly 'sunburned' my hand with a 30 second
exposure.

 

KILOWATT wrote:

Hi everyones...thanks to read. Please check the following link:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3872692720&fromMakeTrack=t
rue
With a proper enclosure, circulating fan, a timer circuit, and the
item
descibed there, do you think that i would have all the components to
make an
inexpensive but efficient Ozone generator? TIA

--
Alain(alias:Kilowatt)
Montréal Québec
PS: 1000 excuses for errors or omissions,
i'm a "pure" french canadian!
Come to visit me at: http://kilowatt.camarades.com
(If replying also by e-mail, remove
"no spam" from the adress.)

I couldnt get your ebay page to open so Im sure exactly what you are
wanting to do but......

You can make an inexpensive ozone generator out of a used oil burner
ignition transformer and a wad of steel wool or tin foil. Just take the
two high voltage leads from the transformer output and jam them into a
wad of steel wool or crampled up tinfoil. You will generate massive
amounts of ozone. If you can find a heating and cooling place in your
area they will sometimes give you old transformers off of furnaces they
have replaced..just got to catch them before they send the furnace to
the scrap yard.

Older neon sign transformers will do the same thing...but are usually
harder to get around here than old oil burner transformers.