Chip with simple program for Toy

[krw]

In article <pan.2004.12.15.19.43.04.81767@example.net>,
rich@example.net says...

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:59:29 -0500, Keith Williams wrote:

In article <pan.2004.12.15.18.04.20.597123@neodruid.org>, null@example.net
says...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:53:06 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com
wrote (in <32b154F3k64i0U1@individual.net&gt about 'Circuit that
produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Wed, 15 Dec 2004:
Roger Johansson wrote:
You have to realize that John Woodgate is so old that when he
learned the
multiplication table it was still very new, and still contained some
faulty results. The multiplication tables have been debugged since
then.

John, like myself, was taught the tables in an age when you had to be
prepared to change base several times within a single problem. 12d =
1s, 20s = Ł1, 21s = 1 guinea. A Ł133/6/8d note would not have been
surprising back then.

We also had to convert from Ł133/6/8 to Ł133.33 *mentally* and
Ł24.737 to Ł24/14/8 and three farthings as well. Mental calculation
in base 960.

I've heard that in England, they spend a semester learning to make
change, but weights and measures are done in a day (metric). In the US,
it's the other way around.

It took me a while to get used to their FSF[*] system.

Well, before they decimalized the pound.

Ten ounces to the pound?

Oh, you Brits and your British Humour! Of course, if I'd said, "Pound
Sterling," neither of you would have had this opportunity. I hope you
appreciate it! ;-)

Brits? Me? Ok, I do currently live in New England, but...

--
Keith

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote (in <MPG.1c2a539b767413919897da@news.individual.net&gt about
'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Wed, 15
Dec 2004:

Ten ounces to the pound?

Yes. Very cheap, snow leopards are. And very light.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote
(in <32d0c0F3kl331U1@individual.net&gt about 'Circuit that produces a
tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

The ounce (Acceptable in a former cat)

Very few people these days would recognise 'U' as meaning 'acceptable'.

OTOH, no-one has yet mentioned the cause of pricking of thumbs.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote
(in <32d0p3F3k7lcqU1@individual.net&gt about 'Circuit that produces a
tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

Good one! Why are mountains (well eminences anyway) always measured in
feet in the UK, but yards in the USA?

Are they? My one US-made map doesn't agree with you. The furlong, of
course, is a unit of length very close to 200 metres.

And why were horses' prices always
quoted in guineas?

Because the guinea is a much older unit of currency and was always a
gold coin (AFAIK). The heights of horses are measured in hands, of
course, a unit of approximately 100 mm.(;-)

Why haven't men cottoned on to millimetres as a more
impressive unit of penile shortness?

Why not zoctometres?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote
(in <32d0hnF3jhgr6U1@individual.net&gt about 'Circuit that produces a
tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

John Woodgate wrote:

I don't know whether the kids are taught hexadecimal or '16 ounces = 1
pound'.

When it's not 14. Remember the table on the back of school exercise
books that began "2 glasses - one noggin"? Fortunately nobody ever asked
me to convert the Yorkshire Woollen Ell to centimetres.

Well, it's 114 cm, give or take a small amount. But there are other

ells: one is almost exactly 99 cm.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.cont
raspam.yuk> wrote (in <DXFlj6BBbVwBFwPN@jmwa.demon.co.uk&gt about
'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Thu, 16
Dec 2004:

Why not zoctometres?

Because it's a typo for yoctometres.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 16 Dec 2004 02:23:33 -0800, abcdstutzer@evard.ch (Diego Stutzer)
wrote:

Hi all,
Lets say I intend to design a simple circuit that shoud connect a
(large) capacitor with a pulsed voltage-source, if and only if the
voltage of the pulsed source is at a higher level than the voltage of
the capacitor (the cap is charged). To do this I want to use a
(certain) MOS-Fet Transistor.

Now I've got the problem, that there is no signal where the potential
is allways at the highest level in the circuit. E.g. If the pulsed
source is charging the capacitor with a large current, there will be
quite a bit of voltage-drop across the MOS-Fet, and while the source
is at level 0 the transistor will be turned off an there will be a
voltage drop the other way.

So how schould I connect the bulk of the mosfet in a way that the
source-to-bulk-diode never becomes foreward biased (to high)?

I thought maybe a kind of "bulk-switch-circuit" could help? Maybe also
just a simple diode (with a foreward voltage lower than that of the
transistors-diodes)?

Any ideas, experience?

So far, Thanks for reading,
Regards,

Diego

You have a "MOS-Fet" with a separate bulk connection?

Post a schematic on a.b.s.e

Your description is clear as mud.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Diego Stutzer wrote...

Lets say I intend to design a simple circuit that shoud connect a
(large) capacitor with a pulsed voltage-source, if and only if the
voltage of the pulsed source is at a higher level than the voltage
of the capacitor (the cap is charged). To do this I want to use a
(certain) MOS-Fet Transistor.

Which one?

Now I've got the problem, that there is no signal where the potential
is allways at the highest level in the circuit. E.g. If the pulsed
source is charging the capacitor with a large current, there will be
quite a bit of voltage-drop across the MOS-Fet, and while the source
is at level 0 the transistor will be turned off an there will be a
voltage drop the other way.

So how schould I connect the bulk of the mosfet in a way that the
source-to-bulk-diode never becomes foreward biased (to high)?

Most MOSFETs we use these days are vertical or VMOS types, which
have three terminals. Generally the drain is the substrate, with
an intrinsic diode to the source. The pre-connected substrate
is also present for the popular lateral MOSFETs used in audio
amplifiers. Many of the old-style "ordinary" MOSFETs with four
terminals, like the 2n4351, etc., had a fourth terminal connected
to the case, not to the substrate. So in all these cases as a
designer you get to (have to) simply ignore the substrate.

If you're using a 4-terminal MOSFET with a substrate pin, in many
cases you can still ignore the substrate, and let it seek its own
voltage through occasional substrate-diode conductance and low
leakage-discharge currents. In rare cases you'll take charge of
this pin to set the voltage, to reduce capacitance, etc.

I thought maybe a kind of "bulk-switch-circuit" could help?

Yes, this is what some IC designers did, especially with CMOS
analog switches, e.g., as first shown in RCA's CD4066 datasheet.
Here they wanted to improve Ron as a function of signal voltage
and used a second analog switch to connect the n-channel signal
FET's substrate to the signal when the switch was on and to Vss
when the switch was off. This trick is still commonly used in
linear CMOS switches.

Maybe also just a simple diode (with a foreward voltage lower
than that of the transistors-diodes)?

As explained, the necessary diode is already present.

BTW, Diego, it's not good to crosspost to so many groups.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Joerg]

Hi Diego,

Lets say I intend to design a simple circuit that shoud connect a
(large) capacitor with a pulsed voltage-source, if and only if the
voltage of the pulsed source is at a higher level than the voltage of
the capacitor (the cap is charged). To do this I want to use a
(certain) MOS-Fet Transistor.

Wouldn't a diode alone do that? Anyway, if you are concerned about the
substrate diode shorting your cap back to the source the only way I see
is to place a diode in series.

Win is right about too many cross posts. Also, I wouldn't go across
language barriers, at least not a lot. Except if you worked at my
favorite radio station when I was a student, where they happily jumped
between four languages ;-)

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[CBFalconer]

Alan Balmer wrote:

Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote:
Keith Williams wrote:

FSF[*] system.
[*] - Furlong Stone Fortnight

Good one! Why are mountains (well eminences anyway) always measured
in feet in the UK, but yards in the USA?

? I've never seen mountains measured in yards in the US. Feet is the
usual, though I have seen feet and meters.

Here in leftpondia yards are normally used for foot/swimming races
(under about 1 mile/1500 km) and naval gunnery ranges AFAICT.
Mountains and altitudes get feet. For most internatinal purposes,
such as records, meters become supreme, even in the US.

A few obstreporous types measure automobile fuel consumption in
acres, or more conveniently, picoacres. I have a machine that
consumes between 15 and 20 picoacres.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
wrote (in <41C1F2AB.A66EC5E9@yahoo.com&gt about 'Circuit that produces a
tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

A few obstreporous types measure automobile fuel consumption in acres,
or more conveniently, picoacres. I have a machine that consumes between
15 and 20 picoacres.

Clever: volume/distance = area.

Reminds me of specific piezoelectric sensitivity;

volts/meter divided by newtons/sq. meter = voltmeters/newton

Can't be right, because voltmeters weren't invented in Newton's time.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that genenamg@yahoo.com wrote (in
<1103240587.070676.282920@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com&gt about 'Pi
Network & S - parameters', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

Hi,

I am new in the RF field and I have a question regarding Pi Networks
and S parameters.

I was recently reading an article about Pi networks and it uses in RF.
I am confused about a couple of things. The article said the k=1/S21,
where k is the attenuation constant. How do you derive this relation
between k and S21. I know that k=10^(A/20), where A is the value of
attenuation, does it have something to do with this?

No, that equation converts between A in decibels and k as a pure number.

S21 is the forward 'gain' (a number less than 1 for a passive network),
so the attenuation coefficient is obviously its reciprocal.

My second question is, the article says that the load reflection
coefficient gammaL=1/k^2. How do I derive this?

You will find the answer on the pages up to page 17 of the document:

http://www.sss-mag.com/pdf/an-95-1.pdf

Remember that in general s21 is a complex number (there is phase-shift
through the network) and that s21 = 1/k.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:YR3DCyE3SyvBFwl3@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that Nicholas O. Lindan <see@sig.com
wrote (in <zwEvd.4831$Yj4.2677@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net&gt
about
'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Tue,
14
Dec 2004:

There is no such thing as no such thing.

Quite right. Now I have a special bargain for you. A hundred $6 bills
for $500.

At work, I often go to lunch at this British pub down the street, and
they have a bunch of stuff such as British coins in collages on the
walls. Messes with my head when I try to make sense (or cents) of their
old coin system. ;-)

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in <10s90ldp1fr3k88@corp.su
pernews.com&gt about 'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the
fingers.', on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

At work, I often go to lunch at this British pub down the street, and
they have a bunch of stuff such as British coins in collages on the
walls. Messes with my head when I try to make sense (or cents) of their
old coin system. ;-)

4 farthings = 2 halfpennies = 1 penny
4 pence = 1 groat
6 pence = 1 sixpence
2 sixpences = 1 shilling
2 shillings = 1 florin
2.5 shillings = 1 half-crown
2 half-crowns = 1 crown
2 crowns = 1 half-sovereign
2 half-sovereigns = 1 sovereign
21 shillings = 1 guinea
50 sovereigns = 1 pony
500 sovereigns = 1 monkey

I don't see the problem.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Grant Edwards]

On 2004-12-18, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

At work, I often go to lunch at this British pub down the street, and
they have a bunch of stuff such as British coins in collages on the
walls. Messes with my head when I try to make sense (or cents) of their
old coin system. ;-)

Why? It wasn't any more complicated than US coinage. We've got
pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters, half-dollars, dollars
(1,5,10,25,50,100). It was just a different series of numbers:
(1/2,1,2,6,12,120,240). I left out a few, I guess there was a 3
and 24. Oh, and I forgot about guineas. OK, it was a bit more
complicated than US coinage...

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Are the STEWED PRUNES
at still in the HAIR DRYER?
visi.com

 

[peterk]

The abbreviation for penny was "d" for reasons lost in the mists of
time. There was the circular threepenny bit (3d), which when changed
from silver to something cheaper became octagonal. And you missed off
all the low value slang names, tanner (6d), bob (1s), quid (Ł1).
Peter

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that peterk <peterk.vt80@gmail.com>
wrote (in <1103403323.997475.232480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com&gt about
'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Sat, 18
Dec 2004:

The abbreviation for penny was "d" for reasons lost in the mists of
time.

Well, about 200 years, but not lost. It's from the Latin 'denarius', a
silver coin of considerable value. Equally 'shilling' si 'solidus and
the Ł symbol is from 'libra' - a pound weight, not a coin.

There was the circular threepenny bit (3d), which when changed
from silver to something cheaper became octagonal. And you missed off
all the low value slang names, tanner (6d), bob (1s), quid (Ł1).

I did think about including them, but I really wanted to concentrate on
the counting bases (slightly on-topic). Besides, there are so many of
them, especially for a pound, that it would make a very long article.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jonathan Kirwan
<jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote (in <df79s09ha9p31erm7581kmvjecb2t2fue4@4
ax.com&gt about 'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the
fingers.', on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

Also, a 2 bob bit was called never really called a
florin, despite the word being on the 2 bob bit, right?

The word was in use up to about 1940, but even I am not old enough to
remember it clearly.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com>
wrote (in <41c495c4$0$86400$a1866201@visi.com&gt about 'Circuit that
produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:

Why? It wasn't any more complicated than US coinage. We've got pennies,
nickels, dimes, quarters, half-dollars, dollars (1,5,10,25,50,100). It
was just a different series of numbers: (1/2,1,2,6,12,120,240). I left
out a few, I guess there was a 3 and 24.

A long time ago, there was a 'mark', whose value varied from time to
time but was once 6s 8d, a third of a pound. Queen Victoria minted
double-florins (4 shillings), quarter, half and one-third farthings.

Crowns were rarely common items of currency, partly because some people
considered them unlucky - big and heavy enough to wear a hole in your
pocket and 5 shillings was a lot to lose! They were mostly commemorative
coins, as were also two pounds and five pounds gold coins.

Oh, and I forgot about
guineas. OK, it was a bit more complicated than US coinage...

Only a bit.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mike Harding <mike_harding@nixspam
..fastmail.fm> wrote (in <bfbbs0heplmst75ijtvcde2a2vdmrpsbqo@4ax.com&gt
about 'Circuit that produces a tingling sensation in the fingers.', on
Sun, 19 Dec 2004:

At junior school 12 pennies to a shilling was always useful when we had
to calculate the price of one egg if a dozen eggs cost 3 shillings and
sixpence - bloody useless at all other times though

How much is 12 feet of half-inch dowel if it's 2d an inch?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk