Chip with simple program for Toy

Rheilly Phoull · Apr 26, 2008

"axrock" <chris.sefton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2c1e95f4-5659-4188-a918-1c31fbda9a6e@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

Hi,

I am a total rookie when working with circuits, but I have built a kit
set transonic proximity sensor. I'll explain my use at the end.

Essentially what it does is turn on an LED when an object gets near to
the sensors. I have extended the kit with another kit to add relay
functionality. So when an object nears the sensor it switches the
relay. All this is a simple kit set circuit that runs on 12V.

My only problem with it, is the sensors a very touchy, when it senses
an odd shaped object (like a human or dog etc) the relay switches
madly on, off, on, off until the object is really close (EG: 2 Inches
etc).

I am wanting to add a delay to the circuit, so that when the relay
switches it stays on for at least 3 or 5 seconds. In other words, when
the sensor begins to detect the presence of an object rather than the
relay going nuts, it will actually stay on for at least 3 or 5 seconds
etc. When it is due to turn off again it will likely receive another
erratic pulse from the sensors due to the odd object near by. Hope
that makes sense.

What this is designed for:
Just in case you are curious.
I am attempting to build a device that will allow my dog to turn on an
outside tap to allow him to drink straight out of the hose. This way
he always has fresh water whenever he needs it. So far I have a
washing machine solenoid which switches on a home made pressure mat.
This does not work that well though. Hence, using a proximity sensor.
My dog just needs to walk up to the water outlet and the water turns
on. It works at the moment, but switches on and off very fast as he
gets within the distance I want. I need to set a timer of sorts
(possibly a 555) to keep the relay on rather than switch it off
immediately. This way it should keep the water flow steady for the
drink, and will turn off within 3 or 5 seconds of the dog moving away.

Really appreciate any help.
Really just need some help to add a small delay timer between the
sensor circuit and the relay circuit.

Thanks,
Chris

The pressure pad idea seems good, how do you have that setup ?

--
Cheers ............. Rheilly

Rheilly Phoull · Apr 26, 2008

"axrock" <chris.sefton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2c1e95f4-5659-4188-a918-1c31fbda9a6e@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

Hi,

I am a total rookie when working with circuits, but I have built a kit
set transonic proximity sensor. I'll explain my use at the end.

Essentially what it does is turn on an LED when an object gets near to
the sensors. I have extended the kit with another kit to add relay
functionality. So when an object nears the sensor it switches the
relay. All this is a simple kit set circuit that runs on 12V.

My only problem with it, is the sensors a very touchy, when it senses
an odd shaped object (like a human or dog etc) the relay switches
madly on, off, on, off until the object is really close (EG: 2 Inches
etc).

I am wanting to add a delay to the circuit, so that when the relay
switches it stays on for at least 3 or 5 seconds. In other words, when
the sensor begins to detect the presence of an object rather than the
relay going nuts, it will actually stay on for at least 3 or 5 seconds
etc. When it is due to turn off again it will likely receive another
erratic pulse from the sensors due to the odd object near by. Hope
that makes sense.

What this is designed for:
Just in case you are curious.
I am attempting to build a device that will allow my dog to turn on an
outside tap to allow him to drink straight out of the hose. This way
he always has fresh water whenever he needs it. So far I have a
washing machine solenoid which switches on a home made pressure mat.
This does not work that well though. Hence, using a proximity sensor.
My dog just needs to walk up to the water outlet and the water turns
on. It works at the moment, but switches on and off very fast as he
gets within the distance I want. I need to set a timer of sorts
(possibly a 555) to keep the relay on rather than switch it off
immediately. This way it should keep the water flow steady for the
drink, and will turn off within 3 or 5 seconds of the dog moving away.

Really appreciate any help.
Really just need some help to add a small delay timer between the
sensor circuit and the relay circuit.

Thanks,
Chris

The pressure pad idea seems good, how do you have that setup ?

--
Cheers ............. Rheilly

The Ghost In The Machine · Apr 26, 2008

In sci.physics, Phil Allison
<philallison@tpg.com.au>
wrote
on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:32:37 +1000
<6773rgF2n665eU1@mid.individual.net>:

"Dope Bowey"

"JeffM"

Bret Cahill wrote:
:10X More Efficient

Cite your sources for 920% efficiency.

Cite where you think he said that. It's not in this thread.

** What is 10 times more efficient than 92 % ??

920% ?

Presumably, 99.2%. The loss for 92% efficiency
is 8%; reducing that loss by a factor of 10
generates 0.8%.

The OP's question is an absurd troll.

Like you.

I do wonder. We were born about a century too late;
Tesla and Edison produced various papers and/or actions
(including electrocutions!) based on AC (Tesla) and DC
(Edison).

Tesla won, as it turns out.

...... Phil

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
Windows. The choice of a bunch of people who like very weird behavior on
a regular basis, random crashes, and "extend, embrace, and extinguish".

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The Ghost In The Machine · Apr 26, 2008

In sci.physics, Phil Allison
<philallison@tpg.com.au>
wrote
on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:32:37 +1000
<6773rgF2n665eU1@mid.individual.net>:

"Dope Bowey"

"JeffM"

Bret Cahill wrote:
:10X More Efficient

Cite your sources for 920% efficiency.

Cite where you think he said that. It's not in this thread.

** What is 10 times more efficient than 92 % ??

920% ?

Presumably, 99.2%. The loss for 92% efficiency
is 8%; reducing that loss by a factor of 10
generates 0.8%.

The OP's question is an absurd troll.

Like you.

I do wonder. We were born about a century too late;
Tesla and Edison produced various papers and/or actions
(including electrocutions!) based on AC (Tesla) and DC
(Edison).

Tesla won, as it turns out.

...... Phil

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
Windows. The choice of a bunch of people who like very weird behavior on
a regular basis, random crashes, and "extend, embrace, and extinguish".

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Androcles · Apr 26, 2008

Androcles · Apr 26, 2008

Dan Coby · Apr 26, 2008

"axrock" <chris.sefton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2c1e95f4-5659-4188-a918-1c31fbda9a6e@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

What this is designed for:
Just in case you are curious.
I am attempting to build a device that will allow my dog to turn on an
outside tap to allow him to drink straight out of the hose. This way
he always has fresh water whenever he needs it.

Some friends of mine have used one of these for years for their dogs.
Just attach it to the faucet. No electronics, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Lixit-Dog-Waterer/dp/B0002UOIZG

Phil Allison · Apr 26, 2008

"The Ghost In The Machine TROLL "

** What is 10 times more efficient than 92 % ??

920% ?

Presumably, 99.2%. The loss for 92% efficiency
is 8%; reducing that loss by a factor of 10
generates 0.8%.

** ???????????????

Absurd gobbledgook.

......... Phil

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Bearded Occam" <BeardedOccam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bd25562d-f6f0-43d8-81e2-c347c00f1761@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

Hopefully this is the last time I use Google Gropes. You guys are
right. Yeesh. Sorry about this.

I have used PIC chips for well over a decade, and in particular, have
developed circuits using the PIC16C773 due to the 12-bit ADC.
Everything would be rosy with the '773, except that I fried my two
windowed chips, they are no longer stocked by DigiKey or Mouser, and
it just seems like I could modernize a bit with an MCU that supports,
among other things:

* 12-bit ADC
* Serial port
* EEPROM or Flash, instead of EPROM / OTP
* Low pin count packages that a geezer can solder -- does not have to
be DIP necessarily
* Free software tools, possibly even C compiler
* Relatively painless programmer hardware

Another option would be to use one of the flash-based PIC chips and
switch to an outboard ADC, if the collective wisdom favored such a
route.

Thanks in advance for letting me use GG one last time, and for any
wisdom you are willing to share.

Microchip does have some new products with 12 bit ADC:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2018&mcparam=en532100

The dsPIC family has had 12 bit ADC for a while:

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/70183A.pdf

The PIC24HJ series has a 12 bit ADC:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en520472

I was surprised that there was not a flash version of the PIC16C773, and
the similar PIC16C770/771 seems to be only available in OTP. But you can
order one of the windowed CERDIPs direct from Microchip, and get more by
Halloween:

http://www.microchipdirect.com/productdetails.aspx?mid=10&catalog=buymicrochip&category=PIC16C770

If you go with an external ADC, Microchip has some SPI SAR devices up to 13
bits:

http://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=11021&mid=11&lang=en&pageId=79

and Delta Sigma up to 22 bits:

http://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=11022&mid=11&lang=en&pageId=79

and dual slope to 17 bits with 3-wire or serial interface:

http://www.microchip.com/ParamChartSearch/chart.aspx?branchID=11023&mid=11&lang=en&pageId=79

BTW, I sent a couple dozen complaints to Google about the spam and porn,
and it seems to have abated for awhile. Direct your abuse complaints to:
http://groups.google.com/groups/abuse

Good luck,

Paul

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
news:9aLQj.13882$Yy6.9158@newsfe11.ams2...

--
This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
message
news:7bsbe5-s07.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
|
| I do wonder. We were born about a century too late;
| Tesla and Edison produced various papers and/or actions
| (including electrocutions!) based on AC (Tesla) and DC
| (Edison).
|
| Tesla won, as it turns out.

If you have a high voltage then you can use less current and
you only need a small conductor ... but then you need to
step it down again for safety in domestic applications.
The transformer and AC makes it all possible. Edison's DC
was not a option, there are no DC transformers (or AC
batteries) - besides which a DC generator needs an expensive
commutator.

DC generators with commutators are 19th century technology. Solid state
converters and inverters are essentially DC transformers, but would have
been only wet dreams to Edison and Tesla. It may be that Tesla was the
winner (although not financially and emotionally), but Edison may prove to
be the winner by a few percentage points as solid state technology becomes
cheaper and more efficient.

High voltage is more efficient and practical because insulation is much
cheaper and lighter weight than copper, silver, aluminum, or other good
conductors. And superconductors are not practical for really long
transmission. AC at high voltage will have some losses due to radiation,
inductance, capacitance, and phase shift, as well as resistance, corona and
insulator leakage, which affect both AC and DC. A balanced three phase, 3
wire system transfers 50% more power than a two wire DC system with the
same size wires, and the same voltage to ground, but the AC system will
have inductive and capacitive losses, requires 40% better insulation to
handle peaks, and may have shorter insulator life due to capacitive
current. Also, the AC system is often not well balanced, which puts extra
load on one of the conductors and consequently higher losses.

A DC system can also use the earth (possibly with a smaller buried
conductor) for a return path, which shifts efficiency in its favor as
compared to AC.

But maybe Tesla will prove to be the ultimate winner if his methods of
transmitting power by means of atmospheric and earth resonance ever prove
to be practical and safe.

Paul

Androcles · Apr 27, 2008

--
This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4813cc89$0$19806$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
|
| "Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
| news:9aLQj.13882$Yy6.9158@newsfe11.ams2...
| >
| >
| > --
| > This message is brought to you by Androcles
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
| >
| > "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
| > message
| > news:7bsbe5-s07.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
| > |
| > | I do wonder. We were born about a century too late;
| > | Tesla and Edison produced various papers and/or actions
| > | (including electrocutions!) based on AC (Tesla) and DC
| > | (Edison).
| > |
| > | Tesla won, as it turns out.
| >
| >
| > If you have a high voltage then you can use less current and
| > you only need a small conductor ... but then you need to
| > step it down again for safety in domestic applications.
| > The transformer and AC makes it all possible. Edison's DC
| > was not a option, there are no DC transformers (or AC
| > batteries) - besides which a DC generator needs an expensive
| > commutator.
|
| DC generators with commutators are 19th century technology.

My goodness... you are right, how could I have missed that?
And Edison lived when?

| Solid state
| converters and inverters are essentially DC transformers, but would have
| been only wet dreams to Edison and Tesla. It may be that Tesla was the
| winner (although not financially and emotionally), but Edison may prove to
| be the winner by a few percentage points as solid state technology becomes
| cheaper and more efficient.

Take down the wires between the pylons and beam the energy across country
using masers, huh?
And for the next wet dream we'll have big mirrors in space focussing
sunlight
on Antarctica to terra-form it, melt that damned ice and show those tree
huggers
some new trees to cuddle up to while we get on with a bit of rape and
plunder
of the mineral wealth there. All the crap about global warming and we've
a whole continent to explore. Too much water? Syphon some off and
leave it on the Moon. All it takes is energy and the Sun has more than
enough.

|
| High voltage is more efficient and practical because insulation is much
| cheaper and lighter weight than copper, silver, aluminum, or other good
| conductors.

Oh, I didn't know HV power lines were insulated...

| And superconductors are not practical for really long
| transmission.

Superconductors are only a wet dream to Edison and Tesla.

| AC at high voltage will have some losses due to radiation,
| inductance, capacitance, and phase shift, as well as resistance, corona
and
| insulator leakage, which affect both AC and DC.

Losses due to phase shift, huh? Power factor correction wasn't
an Edison and Tesla wet dream, was it?

| A balanced three phase, 3
| wire system transfers 50% more power than a two wire DC system with the
| same size wires, and the same voltage to ground, but the AC system will
| have inductive and capacitive losses, requires 40% better insulation to
| handle peaks, and may have shorter insulator life due to capacitive
| current.

Capacitive losses? They get hot, those nasty capacitors...

| Also, the AC system is often not well balanced, which puts extra
| load on one of the conductors and consequently higher losses.
| A DC system can also use the earth (possibly with a smaller buried
| conductor) for a return path, which shifts efficiency in its favor as
| compared to AC.

That sounds like an Edison wet dream to me. Just connect to the steel
frame of the building and the copper pipes from the bathtub. Very useful
for fluorescent lights, I'm sure.

| But maybe Tesla will prove to be the ultimate winner if his methods of
| transmitting power by means of atmospheric and earth resonance ever prove
| to be practical and safe.
|
Got any more wet dreams for us?
There is no "ultimate", we go with what we have... NOW. And the process
will continue to evolve until it blows up in all our faces.

Man, as a species, has survived without technology for 2-3 million years.
What science and technology have done is caused massive overpopulation.
That CANNOT continue. We live in the Golden Age preceding the mighty
crash that will be as dark an age as the demise of the dinosaur, and we are
doing it to ourselves.

Androcles · Apr 27, 2008

--
This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4813cc89$0$19806$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
|
| "Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
| news:9aLQj.13882$Yy6.9158@newsfe11.ams2...
| >
| >
| > --
| > This message is brought to you by Androcles
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
| >
| > "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
| > message
| > news:7bsbe5-s07.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
| > |
| > | I do wonder. We were born about a century too late;
| > | Tesla and Edison produced various papers and/or actions
| > | (including electrocutions!) based on AC (Tesla) and DC
| > | (Edison).
| > |
| > | Tesla won, as it turns out.
| >
| >
| > If you have a high voltage then you can use less current and
| > you only need a small conductor ... but then you need to
| > step it down again for safety in domestic applications.
| > The transformer and AC makes it all possible. Edison's DC
| > was not a option, there are no DC transformers (or AC
| > batteries) - besides which a DC generator needs an expensive
| > commutator.
|
| DC generators with commutators are 19th century technology.

My goodness... you are right, how could I have missed that?
And Edison lived when?

| Solid state
| converters and inverters are essentially DC transformers, but would have
| been only wet dreams to Edison and Tesla. It may be that Tesla was the
| winner (although not financially and emotionally), but Edison may prove to
| be the winner by a few percentage points as solid state technology becomes
| cheaper and more efficient.

Take down the wires between the pylons and beam the energy across country
using masers, huh?
And for the next wet dream we'll have big mirrors in space focussing
sunlight
on Antarctica to terra-form it, melt that damned ice and show those tree
huggers
some new trees to cuddle up to while we get on with a bit of rape and
plunder
of the mineral wealth there. All the crap about global warming and we've
a whole continent to explore. Too much water? Syphon some off and
leave it on the Moon. All it takes is energy and the Sun has more than
enough.

|
| High voltage is more efficient and practical because insulation is much
| cheaper and lighter weight than copper, silver, aluminum, or other good
| conductors.

Oh, I didn't know HV power lines were insulated...

| And superconductors are not practical for really long
| transmission.

Superconductors are only a wet dream to Edison and Tesla.

| AC at high voltage will have some losses due to radiation,
| inductance, capacitance, and phase shift, as well as resistance, corona
and
| insulator leakage, which affect both AC and DC.

Losses due to phase shift, huh? Power factor correction wasn't
an Edison and Tesla wet dream, was it?

| A balanced three phase, 3
| wire system transfers 50% more power than a two wire DC system with the
| same size wires, and the same voltage to ground, but the AC system will
| have inductive and capacitive losses, requires 40% better insulation to
| handle peaks, and may have shorter insulator life due to capacitive
| current.

Capacitive losses? They get hot, those nasty capacitors...

| Also, the AC system is often not well balanced, which puts extra
| load on one of the conductors and consequently higher losses.
| A DC system can also use the earth (possibly with a smaller buried
| conductor) for a return path, which shifts efficiency in its favor as
| compared to AC.

That sounds like an Edison wet dream to me. Just connect to the steel
frame of the building and the copper pipes from the bathtub. Very useful
for fluorescent lights, I'm sure.

| But maybe Tesla will prove to be the ultimate winner if his methods of
| transmitting power by means of atmospheric and earth resonance ever prove
| to be practical and safe.
|
Got any more wet dreams for us?
There is no "ultimate", we go with what we have... NOW. And the process
will continue to evolve until it blows up in all our faces.

Man, as a species, has survived without technology for 2-3 million years.
What science and technology have done is caused massive overpopulation.
That CANNOT continue. We live in the Golden Age preceding the mighty
crash that will be as dark an age as the demise of the dinosaur, and we are
doing it to ourselves.

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
news:mNSQj.150204$cj2.79114@newsfe13.ams2...

--
This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4813cc89$0$19806$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
|
| High voltage is more efficient and practical because insulation is much
| cheaper and lighter weight than copper, silver, aluminum, or other good
| conductors.

Oh, I didn't know HV power lines were insulated...

The lines themselves are not insulated, but they are suspended on insulting
bushings, and of course air itself is an insulator.

| AC at high voltage will have some losses due to radiation,
| inductance, capacitance, and phase shift, as well as resistance, corona
| and insulator leakage, which affect both AC and DC.

Losses due to phase shift, huh? Power factor correction wasn't
an Edison and Tesla wet dream, was it?

| A balanced three phase, 3
| wire system transfers 50% more power than a two wire DC system with the
| same size wires, and the same voltage to ground, but the AC system will
| have inductive and capacitive losses, requires 40% better insulation to
| handle peaks, and may have shorter insulator life due to capacitive
| current.

Capacitive losses? They get hot, those nasty capacitors...

Insulators have their own capacitance, and power factor correction
capacitors have some losses from ESR. Also, their cost of procurement and
maintenance need to be factored into the overall efficiency.

| Also, the AC system is often not well balanced, which puts extra
| load on one of the conductors and consequently higher losses.
| A DC system can also use the earth (possibly with a smaller buried
| conductor) for a return path, which shifts efficiency in its favor as
| compared to AC.

That sounds like an Edison wet dream to me. Just connect to the steel
frame of the building and the copper pipes from the bathtub. Very useful
for fluorescent lights, I'm sure.

It's already being done for some transmission lines. But I would not
advocate earth ground return path for distribution.

| But maybe Tesla will prove to be the ultimate winner if his methods of
| transmitting power by means of atmospheric and earth resonance ever
prove
| to be practical and safe.
|
Got any more wet dreams for us?
There is no "ultimate", we go with what we have... NOW. And the process
will continue to evolve until it blows up in all our faces.

Man, as a species, has survived without technology for 2-3 million years.
What science and technology have done is caused massive overpopulation.
That CANNOT continue. We live in the Golden Age preceding the mighty
crash that will be as dark an age as the demise of the dinosaur, and we
are
doing it to ourselves.

Now that is something with which I can at least partially agree. We, the
"enlightened" people of the industrial and technological age, are exerting
unprecedented stresses on our fragile biosphere, and a privileged and
greedy few are reaping temporary financial benefits from human activities
that simply cannot continue on a sustainable basis. The world population
continues to rise, and much of that increase is composed of individuals who
are genetically and behaviorally challenged so that they reperesent more of
a burden than an asset in the grand scheme of things. Dogmatic religions
oppose any sort of limitations or social engineering, yet will not take
direct responsibility for the continued supervision, care, and protective
containment of those who make negative contributions to the advancement of
civilization. And business models and economic metrics require ever
increasing growth as a requirement for success, which encourages
conspicuous consumption, planned obsolescence, depletion of resources, and
waste of energy.

The long-bearded old weirdo in robes has been professing that "The end is
near", and perhaps that is becoming more of a reality that we could see in
our lifetimes.

Paul

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
news:mNSQj.150204$cj2.79114@newsfe13.ams2...

--
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http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4813cc89$0$19806$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
|
| High voltage is more efficient and practical because insulation is much
| cheaper and lighter weight than copper, silver, aluminum, or other good
| conductors.

Oh, I didn't know HV power lines were insulated...

The lines themselves are not insulated, but they are suspended on insulting
bushings, and of course air itself is an insulator.

| AC at high voltage will have some losses due to radiation,
| inductance, capacitance, and phase shift, as well as resistance, corona
| and insulator leakage, which affect both AC and DC.

Losses due to phase shift, huh? Power factor correction wasn't
an Edison and Tesla wet dream, was it?

| A balanced three phase, 3
| wire system transfers 50% more power than a two wire DC system with the
| same size wires, and the same voltage to ground, but the AC system will
| have inductive and capacitive losses, requires 40% better insulation to
| handle peaks, and may have shorter insulator life due to capacitive
| current.

Capacitive losses? They get hot, those nasty capacitors...

Insulators have their own capacitance, and power factor correction
capacitors have some losses from ESR. Also, their cost of procurement and
maintenance need to be factored into the overall efficiency.

| Also, the AC system is often not well balanced, which puts extra
| load on one of the conductors and consequently higher losses.
| A DC system can also use the earth (possibly with a smaller buried
| conductor) for a return path, which shifts efficiency in its favor as
| compared to AC.

That sounds like an Edison wet dream to me. Just connect to the steel
frame of the building and the copper pipes from the bathtub. Very useful
for fluorescent lights, I'm sure.

It's already being done for some transmission lines. But I would not
advocate earth ground return path for distribution.

| But maybe Tesla will prove to be the ultimate winner if his methods of
| transmitting power by means of atmospheric and earth resonance ever
prove
| to be practical and safe.
|
Got any more wet dreams for us?
There is no "ultimate", we go with what we have... NOW. And the process
will continue to evolve until it blows up in all our faces.

Man, as a species, has survived without technology for 2-3 million years.
What science and technology have done is caused massive overpopulation.
That CANNOT continue. We live in the Golden Age preceding the mighty
crash that will be as dark an age as the demise of the dinosaur, and we
are
doing it to ourselves.

Now that is something with which I can at least partially agree. We, the
"enlightened" people of the industrial and technological age, are exerting
unprecedented stresses on our fragile biosphere, and a privileged and
greedy few are reaping temporary financial benefits from human activities
that simply cannot continue on a sustainable basis. The world population
continues to rise, and much of that increase is composed of individuals who
are genetically and behaviorally challenged so that they reperesent more of
a burden than an asset in the grand scheme of things. Dogmatic religions
oppose any sort of limitations or social engineering, yet will not take
direct responsibility for the continued supervision, care, and protective
containment of those who make negative contributions to the advancement of
civilization. And business models and economic metrics require ever
increasing growth as a requirement for success, which encourages
conspicuous consumption, planned obsolescence, depletion of resources, and
waste of energy.

The long-bearded old weirdo in robes has been professing that "The end is
near", and perhaps that is becoming more of a reality that we could see in
our lifetimes.

Paul

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Hamad bin Turki al Salami" <hamad@no.me.spam> wrote in message
news:67idnVVfc44SmInVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com...

JeffM wrote:
Hamad bin Turki al Salami wrote:
I have a few dozen kinds of expensive electronic components[...]
I want to be able to keep them organized in trays
that I can store and display.

Jameco still sells these
http://www.google.com/images?q=bug.box+compartments+Jameco

That would be perfect, except that it seems to be too small. The
compartments are only big enough for a 16 pin DIP. For a 72 pin
simm, I need compartments that are more than 4 inches long.

I have found that index card (3" x 5") files work well for storage of small

parts. I put SMT components in coin envelopes, which are easy to label and
inexpensive. Also, such card files can often be found very cheap or free,
at places like libraries that are converting to computerized indexes. If
you can find some cassette tape cases, they might be about the right size
for your components. You can use aluminum foil to wrap the components for
static protection.

Paul

Androcles · Apr 27, 2008

This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4814046b$0$19789$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
|
| "Androcles" <Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote in message
| news:mNSQj.150204$cj2.79114@newsfe13.ams2...
| >
| >
| > --
| > This message is brought to you by Androcles
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
| >
| > "Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
| > news:4813cc89$0$19806$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
| > |
| > | High voltage is more efficient and practical because insulation is
much
| > | cheaper and lighter weight than copper, silver, aluminum, or other
good
| > | conductors.
| >
| >
| > Oh, I didn't know HV power lines were insulated...
|
| The lines themselves are not insulated, but they are suspended on
insulting
| bushings,

Which are cheaper and lighter weight than aluminium or other good
conductors?

| and of course air itself is an insulator.

Now that raises an interesting question.
In a CRT the electron beam passes through vacuum ( a conductor, of course),
so let air in and it's a DC insulator (of course). But is it an AC
insulator?

|
| >
| > | AC at high voltage will have some losses due to radiation,
| > | inductance, capacitance, and phase shift, as well as resistance,
corona
| > | and insulator leakage, which affect both AC and DC.
| >
| > Losses due to phase shift, huh? Power factor correction wasn't
| > an Edison and Tesla wet dream, was it?
| >
| > | A balanced three phase, 3
| > | wire system transfers 50% more power than a two wire DC system with
the
| > | same size wires, and the same voltage to ground, but the AC system
will
| > | have inductive and capacitive losses, requires 40% better insulation
to
| > | handle peaks, and may have shorter insulator life due to capacitive
| > | current.
| >
| > Capacitive losses? They get hot, those nasty capacitors...
|
| Insulators have their own capacitance, and power factor correction
| capacitors have some losses from ESR. Also, their cost of procurement and
| maintenance need to be factored into the overall efficiency.

So a Lamborghini is less efficient than a Ford due to its procurement and
maintenance cost? I learn something new every day.

| > | Also, the AC system is often not well balanced, which puts extra
| > | load on one of the conductors and consequently higher losses.
| > | A DC system can also use the earth (possibly with a smaller buried
| > | conductor) for a return path, which shifts efficiency in its favor as
| > | compared to AC.
| >
| > That sounds like an Edison wet dream to me. Just connect to the steel
| > frame of the building and the copper pipes from the bathtub. Very useful
| > for fluorescent lights, I'm sure.
|
| It's already being done for some transmission lines. But I would not
| advocate earth ground return path for distribution.

Funny that the return path carries no current in a balanced three phase 3
wire
system... that would make earth an ideal return path with nothing to return,
wouldn't it? You can't do that with DC.

| >
| > | But maybe Tesla will prove to be the ultimate winner if his methods of
| > | transmitting power by means of atmospheric and earth resonance ever
| > prove
| > | to be practical and safe.
| > |
| > Got any more wet dreams for us?
| > There is no "ultimate", we go with what we have... NOW. And the process
| > will continue to evolve until it blows up in all our faces.
| >
| > Man, as a species, has survived without technology for 2-3 million
years.
| > What science and technology have done is caused massive overpopulation.
| > That CANNOT continue. We live in the Golden Age preceding the mighty
| > crash that will be as dark an age as the demise of the dinosaur, and we
| > are
| > doing it to ourselves.
|
| Now that is something with which I can at least partially agree. We, the
| "enlightened" people of the industrial and technological age, are exerting
| unprecedented stresses on our fragile biosphere, and a privileged and
| greedy few are reaping temporary financial benefits from human activities
| that simply cannot continue on a sustainable basis. The world population
| continues to rise, and much of that increase is composed of individuals
who
| are genetically and behaviorally challenged so that they reperesent more
of
| a burden than an asset in the grand scheme of things. Dogmatic religions
| oppose any sort of limitations or social engineering, yet will not take
| direct responsibility for the continued supervision, care, and protective
| containment of those who make negative contributions to the advancement of
| civilization. And business models and economic metrics require ever
| increasing growth as a requirement for success, which encourages
| conspicuous consumption, planned obsolescence, depletion of resources, and
| waste of energy.
|
| The long-bearded old weirdo in robes has been professing that "The end is
| near", and perhaps that is becoming more of a reality that we could see in
| our lifetimes.
|
| Paul
Yep... that's evolution in action and there isn't a damn thing anyone
can do about it.
Mr. and Mrs. Microbe live in a petri dish for 2 minutes and die, but first
they reproduce and double the population in 1 minute.
http://www.epa.gov/mold/images/petreidish.jpg

The process begins at 11:00 pm and continues until midnight when the dish
is full, all the agar nutrient is eaten and all microbes die, but first they
slaughter each other for the last remaining nutrient. What time was it when
the dish was half full?
Is getting another dish a solution?

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Tom2000" <abuse@giganews.net> wrote in message
news:0968149rqgvtbmc39a2kv9kpff5101hi5c@4ax.com...

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:12:27 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
pstech@smart.net> wrote:

Microchip does have some new products with 12 bit ADC:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2018&mcparam=en532100

Thanks, Paul. I've been using the 18F2431 for 28-pin projects for a
long time now. I wasn't aware of the 12 bit ADC nor the larger amount
of memory in the 18F2553. I think I'll put a few of those chips on my
shopping list for my next Microchip order.

Now, I just need to contact Microchip and arrange for my commission!

Glad to help. It's also information that I and others might be able to use.

Paul

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Tom2000" <abuse@giganews.net> wrote in message
news:0968149rqgvtbmc39a2kv9kpff5101hi5c@4ax.com...

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:12:27 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
pstech@smart.net> wrote:

Microchip does have some new products with 12 bit ADC:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2018&mcparam=en532100

Thanks, Paul. I've been using the 18F2431 for 28-pin projects for a
long time now. I wasn't aware of the 12 bit ADC nor the larger amount
of memory in the 18F2553. I think I'll put a few of those chips on my
shopping list for my next Microchip order.

Now, I just need to contact Microchip and arrange for my commission!

Glad to help. It's also information that I and others might be able to use.

Paul

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lOGdnfIrON0MjInVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@earthlink.com...

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

The lines themselves are not insulated, but they are suspended on
insulting
bushings, and of course air itself is an insulator.

I've never seen an insulting bushing. ;-)

I was wondering if anyone would catch that... You win!!!

Actually if an insulator broke off and fell on my head, it would be quite
insulting

Paul

Paul E. Schoen · Apr 27, 2008

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lOGdnfIrON0MjInVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@earthlink.com...

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

The lines themselves are not insulated, but they are suspended on
insulting
bushings, and of course air itself is an insulator.

I've never seen an insulting bushing. ;-)

I was wondering if anyone would catch that... You win!!!

Actually if an insulator broke off and fell on my head, it would be quite
insulting

Paul

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