Bush and our Future

[Rolavine]

Subject: Re: Bush and our Future
From: Mark Fergerson nunya@biz.ness
Date: 4/30/2004 1:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <L%nkc.6767$k24.4293@fed1read01

Rolavine wrote:
Sorry, my link did not take.

http://techextreme.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=22727
There is the address for what I quoted.

The gist of the story is that 540,000 high Tech jobs were lost in the US in
2002, and that these jobs now number only 6 million.
This story was from November 19,2003.

The AEA site is
http://www.aeanet.org/
and Google had no trouble finding it Marc?

Whoop-de-do.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2004/04/30/rtr1354445.html

So this should solve our credibilty gap?

What "credibility gap"?

And this from the Boston Herald just today.
http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=11823

"Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, campaigning in Midwest
states
hurt by job losses, proposed greater government investment in such
technologies
as renewable fuels and hybrid engines to build new industries. "

Bullshit, plain and simple. Those "new industries" would
supposedly put "displaced" workers in new jobs, right?
There's a major hitch; the workers would need retraining.
Labor Unions _do not want_ retraining to work because they'd
lose "loyal members" since the workers would likely join a
different Union. Union members are encouraged to believe
that the job they now have is the "only one worth having"
since it gives them a wholly vaporous status. Now ask
yourself what the members are "loyal" to; their own real
interests (making a living no matter what the economy is
based on), or the Unions' bullshit?

Well bullshit back at you, you have no facts for this not proof and no
evidence, therfore inherently Bull Shit. Some of you people are just plain
NUTs.

Hence the major factor keeping us on an "oil economy" is
the UAW, not the White House.

Wow, bullshit that is supposed to become a conclusive argument? Do you ever

listen to yourself?

Why the hell anyone with three functioning cerebral
neurons would join an organization dedicated to keeping them
in a job that's _guaranteed_ to disappear sooner or later
(as all jobs are) is beyond me.

I don't understand you at all.

You also wrote:

Most of my competition is out of business and I'm just paying the bills.
There
are a dozen huge facilites around the Portland Oregon area that are closed
up
now.

Did the people who worked there take any initiative in
being able to do any other kind of work?

Are _you_ making any effort to figure out how to make a
living doing something else?

I still doing electronic engineering, but the idea that I ever do the same
thing is quite wrong. I learn to do new stuff al the time.

Bush did nothing to encourage investment in High Technology or other hard
hit
sectors. The tax cuts and 1% prime rate did not save 3 million American
Jobs.

What do you mean by "high technology"? Car manufacturing
used to be that, but it's now mostly done by robots, and a
good thing that is.

I'm not sure, check with the links I listed and see what they call high tech. I

don't need a definition, I work in high tech.

Blanket tax cut did not help our kind at all.

Who is "our kind"?

Electronic people, who the hell else reads this newsgroup.

I found a job twenty years ago that
_cannot_ be outsourced. Why don't you do something similar
instead of whining that "Daddy President" isn't taking care
of you?

Mark L. Fergerson

I did not whine for me, and you know it. Why would you lie about what I said? I

simply stated that over 750 thousand tech jobs were lost and that Bush did
nothing. Bush did things to concentrate even more wealth in the hands of the
rich, I suppose they had some relationship with the daddy president? But Mark
you know this argument is BS anyway, you just want to blow bubbles over an
important point. When things were good for us teckies the govt let in aliens to
compete for our jobs, it was ok for them to take from us but not to give when
things got though?

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Ken Taylor wrote:

"Rene Tschaggelar" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:4092cb16$0$704$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...

Ken Taylor wrote:

Or going and doing something smarter than everyone else and charging
wads of
dough for the privilege. Then, when any schmoe can do this new 'thing',
export the job to some overly grateful foreigner and go do something
else
smarter. (Re-iterate ad infinitum). I believe it is what made USA
pre-eminent.

Just in case you were wondering ...
Foreign policies matter a lot too.

Eg when Nylon .. [snip]

I don't know what you've been drinking, but I'll have a double.

I was just hinting that a good product is not necessarily sufficient.
Somtimes a little help from the goverment does wonders.
Be it in getting the raw materials cheap or selling the products at
high prices.

You wouldn't believe how difficult it may be to get a product
in the US (other countries do the same BTW, perhaps to a
lesser extent)

Many of the regulation aim at keeping competition out.
Just consider the USDA regulations for imported food.
Likewise the Europeans don't accept antibiotics in meat.
And genetic engineered food is also not appreciated.

Electronics is a bit less restricted.

Rene

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:44:28 -0700) it happened "Richard Henry"
<rphenry@home.com> wrote in <yxBkc.3883$fE.1061@fed1read02>:

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6u4f3$4hk$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:40:17 -0700) it happened "Richard
Henry"
rphenry@home.com> wrote in <Shokc.3234$fE.483@fed1read02>:
I recently lost my job due to cutbacks in a high-tech company.

On the other hand, my 401(K) is doing so well since then that I consider
myself retired.
But do you not think that now society is missing your genius input and
help, it will crumble, and the defence will crumble too, and the Iraqis
will take over? ;-)

As long as the account stays healthy, who cares?
We cannot guarantee that.

JP

 

[John Larkin]

On 30 Apr 2004 16:43:07 -0700, jeffm_@email.com (JeffM) wrote:

But this would just perpetuate the massive over-investment
that caused the current problem in the tech sector.
Ken Taylor

High Tech only has about 6 million workers.
Rocky Rolavine

Because that's where the most over-investment was. Remember how everyone
thought it was a really good idea to put everything possible into tech,
coz that's where heaps of moolah was to be made?

Oh where is the next Killer Ap?

The wild swing of the economic pendulem (irrational exuberance)
hasn't swung back, however.
Post-bubble, all the VCs want to hit a grand slam at every at-bat.
Capitalism is supposed to reward RISK,
but these guys won't poke their necks out.

The VCs, eagerly searching for the next sucker-punch, are now touring
the country promoting nanotech, whatever that is.

from The Curse of the Hundred Bagger:
Why Venture Capitalists Are Paralyzed and Our Economy is Stagnant
by Robert X. Cringely
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040304.html

Cringely is a kick.

love to be told that
they are the engine that keeps the economy running,
but ask them to act like that engine and they won't."

A few sustainable companies were nurtured by VCs (Apple comes to mind)
but that was when investments were sincere; now it's mostly
pump-and-dump, just make it to IPO and cash out.

Take a look at some of the Sand Hill Road VC web sites; their
portfolios are hilarious.

John

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 01 May 2004 12:43:45 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
<kqu790houkba2qn4iqrrg1k77mfqipfdcd@4ax.com>:

Oh where is the next Killer Ap?
USB 128 MB memory sticks with mp3 player, that you an charge after the concert.

Or from the net, with a credit card.
Made in China or there about of cause.
Your 20 $ -> China -> buys US bonds (not really ;-) ), you lose China wins.

 

[KR Williams]

In article <c71c2e$e9h$1@news.epidc.co.kr>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...

On a sunny day (Sat, 01 May 2004 12:43:45 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
kqu790houkba2qn4iqrrg1k77mfqipfdcd@4ax.com>:


Oh where is the next Killer Ap?
USB 128 MB memory sticks with mp3 player, that you an charge after the concert.
Or from the net, with a credit card.

That's your idea of a "killer app"? Please! That technology is
cheap today. It's the distribution of "software" that makes this
work. Apple's iTunes is a stab in this direction.

Made in China or there about of cause.
Your 20 $ -> China -> buys US bonds (not really ;-) ), you lose China wins.

You're as clueless as usual here, Jan. Your sort of doom-sayers
have been with us for at least the thirty years I've been doing
"high-tech" stuff. Nothing has changed, but the players. ...and
the US is still at the table.

--
Keith

 

[Ken Taylor]

"KR Williams" <krw@att.biz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1afe24e858841e169897d4@news1.news.adelphia.net...

In article <c71c2e$e9h$1@news.epidc.co.kr>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...
On a sunny day (Sat, 01 May 2004 12:43:45 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
kqu790houkba2qn4iqrrg1k77mfqipfdcd@4ax.com>:


Oh where is the next Killer Ap?
USB 128 MB memory sticks with mp3 player, that you an charge after the
concert.
Or from the net, with a credit card.

That's your idea of a "killer app"? Please! That technology is
cheap today. It's the distribution of "software" that makes this
work. Apple's iTunes is a stab in this direction.

Made in China or there about of cause.
Your 20 $ -> China -> buys US bonds (not really ;-) ), you lose China
wins.

You're as clueless as usual here, Jan. Your sort of doom-sayers
have been with us for at least the thirty years I've been doing
"high-tech" stuff. Nothing has changed, but the players. ...and
the US is still at the table.

--
Keith

I agree with Keith about nay-sayers in particular. The end of the steam-ship
was going to be the end of the universe too. It can be shown quite readily
that the US generates far more (domestic) jobs with it's
tear-down-and-rebuild economics than do other forms, and that the
efficiencies gained generate greater wealth (non zero-sum economics). Not to
say that individuals don't get hurt on the way, so I acknowledge it's easy
to proselytize from a distance.

Ken

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 1 May 2004 22:20:44 -0400) it happened KR Williams
<krw@att.biz> wrote in <MPG.1afe24e858841e169897d4@news1.news.adelphia.net>:

In article <c71c2e$e9h$1@news.epidc.co.kr>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...
On a sunny day (Sat, 01 May 2004 12:43:45 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
kqu790houkba2qn4iqrrg1k77mfqipfdcd@4ax.com>:


Oh where is the next Killer Ap?
USB 128 MB memory sticks with mp3 player, that you an charge after the concert.
Or from the net, with a credit card.

That's your idea of a "killer app"? Please! That technology is
cheap today. It's the distribution of "software" that makes this
work. Apple's iTunes is a stab in this direction.

Made in China or there about of cause.
Your 20 $ -> China -> buys US bonds (not really ;-) ), you lose China wins.

You're as clueless as usual here, Jan. Your sort of doom-sayers
have been with us for at least the thirty years I've been doing
"high-tech" stuff. Nothing has changed, but the players. ...and
the US is still at the table.
But not being served anymore!

JP

 

[KR Williams]

In article <c72vji$9vl$1@news.epidc.co.kr>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...

On a sunny day (Sat, 1 May 2004 22:20:44 -0400) it happened KR Williams
krw@att.biz> wrote in <MPG.1afe24e858841e169897d4@news1.news.adelphia.net>:

In article <c71c2e$e9h$1@news.epidc.co.kr>,
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com says...
On a sunny day (Sat, 01 May 2004 12:43:45 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
kqu790houkba2qn4iqrrg1k77mfqipfdcd@4ax.com>:


Oh where is the next Killer Ap?
USB 128 MB memory sticks with mp3 player, that you an charge after the concert.
Or from the net, with a credit card.

That's your idea of a "killer app"? Please! That technology is
cheap today. It's the distribution of "software" that makes this
work. Apple's iTunes is a stab in this direction.

Made in China or there about of cause.
Your 20 $ -> China -> buys US bonds (not really ;-) ), you lose China wins.

You're as clueless as usual here, Jan. Your sort of doom-sayers
have been with us for at least the thirty years I've been doing
"high-tech" stuff. Nothing has changed, but the players. ...and
the US is still at the table.
But not being served anymore!

The house always serves the players at the big table.

--
Keith

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Rolavine wrote:

Subject: Re: Bush and our Future
From: Mark Fergerson nunya@biz.ness
Date: 4/30/2004 1:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <L%nkc.6767$k24.4293@fed1read01

Rolavine wrote:

Sorry, my link did not take.

http://techextreme.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=22727
There is the address for what I quoted.

The gist of the story is that 540,000 high Tech jobs were lost in the US in
2002, and that these jobs now number only 6 million.
This story was from November 19,2003.

The AEA site is
http://www.aeanet.org/
and Google had no trouble finding it Marc?

Whoop-de-do.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2004/04/30/rtr1354445.html

I notice you ignored this. Why?

So this should solve our credibilty gap?

What "credibility gap"?

And you didn't answer that either.

And this from the Boston Herald just today.
http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=11823

"Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, campaigning in Midwest

states

hurt by job losses, proposed greater government investment in such

technologies

as renewable fuels and hybrid engines to build new industries. "

Bullshit, plain and simple. Those "new industries" would
supposedly put "displaced" workers in new jobs, right?
There's a major hitch; the workers would need retraining.
Labor Unions _do not want_ retraining to work because they'd
lose "loyal members" since the workers would likely join a
different Union. Union members are encouraged to believe
that the job they now have is the "only one worth having"
since it gives them a wholly vaporous status. Now ask
yourself what the members are "loyal" to; their own real
interests (making a living no matter what the economy is
based on), or the Unions' bullshit?


Well bullshit back at you, you have no facts for this not proof and no
evidence, therfore inherently Bull Shit. Some of you people are just plain
NUTs.

Ever join a Union? Ever know any Union members?

Hence the major factor keeping us on an "oil economy" is
the UAW, not the White House.


Wow, bullshit that is supposed to become a conclusive argument? Do you ever
listen to yourself?

Of course I do, but apparently you only listen to
yourself. And Al, of course.

Why the hell anyone with three functioning cerebral
neurons would join an organization dedicated to keeping them
in a job that's _guaranteed_ to disappear sooner or later
(as all jobs are) is beyond me.


I don't understand you at all.

That explains why you're still wrapping buggy-whip handles.

You also wrote:


Most of my competition is out of business and I'm just paying the bills.

There

are a dozen huge facilites around the Portland Oregon area that are closed

up

now.

Did the people who worked there take any initiative in
being able to do any other kind of work?

Are _you_ making any effort to figure out how to make a
living doing something else?


I still doing electronic engineering, but the idea that I ever do the same
thing is quite wrong. I learn to do new stuff al the time.

Yup, new ways to improve the way you wrap your buggy-whip
handles.

Bush did nothing to encourage investment in High Technology or other hard

hit

sectors. The tax cuts and 1% prime rate did not save 3 million American

Jobs.

What do you mean by "high technology"? Car manufacturing
used to be that, but it's now mostly done by robots, and a
good thing that is.


I'm not sure, check with the links I listed and see what they call high tech. I
don't need a definition, I work in high tech.

Point it that one day's "high tech" is the next day's
"scutwork". Do you really want to be stuck doing scutwork?

Blanket tax cut did not help our kind at all.

Who is "our kind"?


Electronic people, who the hell else reads this newsgroup.

Helped me.

I found a job twenty years ago that
_cannot_ be outsourced. Why don't you do something similar
instead of whining that "Daddy President" isn't taking care
of you?

Mark L. Fergerson


I did not whine for me, and you know it. Why would you lie about what I said? I
simply stated that over 750 thousand tech jobs were lost and that Bush did
nothing. Bush did things to concentrate even more wealth in the hands of the
rich, I suppose they had some relationship with the daddy president? But Mark
you know this argument is BS anyway, you just want to blow bubbles over an
important point. When things were good for us teckies the govt let in aliens to
compete for our jobs, it was ok for them to take from us but not to give when
things got though?

Sigh. You whined that you're "just paying the bills".
Make up your mind.

You (or whoever you quoted) picked a number of "lost tech
jobs", and Forbes serves up a larger number of "insourced" jobs.

Why the hell do you worry what any government does? Run
your own damn life.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Ken Taylor wrote:


Or going and doing something smarter than everyone else and charging
wads of
dough for the privilege. Then, when any schmoe can do this new 'thing',
export the job to some overly grateful foreigner and go do something else
smarter. (Re-iterate ad infinitum). I believe it is what made USA
pre-eminent.


Just in case you were wondering ...

Foreign policies matter a lot too.

Eg when Nylon was discovered, the only fibre with matching if not
surpassing properties was hemp. The US subsequently was rather
effective to declare it as drug worldwide and let it disappear.

That was _one_ reason; the other was the Protestants who
were in office had to appease their constituents (since
alcohol Prohibition was going so well. Ahem).

A side effect was bangladesh which was built physically on hemp,
it got washed away and actually still is being washed away with
every flood.

See, that's a classic example of stupidity. You'd think
whoever was in charge there would have tried to find
something else for them to do to make money.

Next are the installation of dictators in numerous thirld world
countries to let the US companies plunder the riches and the work
force for peanuts.

<snip>

Excuse me, but you're projecting the British East India
Company's history (among others') here.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Mark Fergerson wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

[snip]
Just in case you were wondering ...

Foreign policies matter a lot too.

Eg when Nylon was discovered, the only fibre with matching if not
surpassing properties was hemp. The US subsequently was rather
effective to declare it as drug worldwide and let it disappear.

That was _one_ reason; the other was the Protestants who were in
office had to appease their constituents (since alcohol Prohibition was
going so well. Ahem).

A side effect was bangladesh which was built physically on hemp,
it got washed away and actually still is being washed away with
every flood.

See, that's a classic example of stupidity. You'd think whoever was in
charge there would have tried to find something else for them to do to
make money.

It has been a while since I saw that report. These insulas were
physically held together with the hemp they grew. And they didn't grow
it for dope but for the fibre. At least that was told.
Their destruction was not justified.

Next are the installation of dictators in numerous thirld world
countries to let the US companies plunder the riches and the work
force for peanuts.

snip

Excuse me, but you're projecting the British East India Company's
history (among others') here.

The brits indeed had some more track history.
Well, the contras in Honduras were CIA sponsored terrorists to
get the pineapple and bananas for less than peanuts.
And the Haiti dictator, Papa-Doc was installed an maintained by the US,
wasn't he. What was the name of Ex-CIA & drugrunner that became chief of
"whatever", ah Noriega.

Rene

 

[Rolavine]

Subject: Re: Bush and our Future
From: Mark Fergerson

I'm not going to bother re-quoting this thread. Mark I'm glad your so in
control of your life and have managed to make a good safe spot for yourself.
Why you are openly contemptuous of so some of our less fortunate techies? You
then say that doing electronic engineering is wrapping buggy whips, so I can
only guess your safe niche is well grounded in the general area of 'makes
nothing and pushes paper.' In short Mark your arrogance and coming on from a
high horse maybe quite impressive if only for the fact that this media does not
promote honesty.

When I say the government has acted in ways to favor one section of the public
over another, you just come back with don't look to the government. While I
favor your approach I also value fairness in government decisions. It is quite
clear the Bush admin favors the rich over the middle and poor. Just paying the
bills is pretty good around here. I have lots of friends that were employed by
corporations who have been looking for tech work for months now. However, Mark,
be our guru, tell us about this amazing safe big buck paying, job that you have
so cleverly made for yourself? If you too gutless to do that then shut the hell
up.

Rocky

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

[snip]
Just in case you were wondering ...

Foreign policies matter a lot too.

Eg when Nylon was discovered, the only fibre with matching if not
surpassing properties was hemp. The US subsequently was rather
effective to declare it as drug worldwide and let it disappear.


That was _one_ reason; the other was the Protestants who were in
office had to appease their constituents (since alcohol Prohibition
was going so well. Ahem).

A side effect was bangladesh which was built physically on hemp,
it got washed away and actually still is being washed away with
every flood.


See, that's a classic example of stupidity. You'd think whoever was
in charge there would have tried to find something else for them to do
to make money.


It has been a while since I saw that report. These insulas were
physically held together with the hemp they grew. And they didn't grow
it for dope but for the fibre. At least that was told.

Why the hell didn't they _move away_?

Their destruction was not justified.

I didn't say or think it was. Don't get me started on
hemp (rope or smokable varietals). Recycling may be
bullshit, but renewability isn't.

Next are the installation of dictators in numerous thirld world
countries to let the US companies plunder the riches and the work
force for peanuts.


snip

Excuse me, but you're projecting the British East India Company's
history (among others') here.


The brits indeed had some more track history.
Well, the contras in Honduras were CIA sponsored terrorists to
get the pineapple and bananas for less than peanuts.

BTW, I despise bananas, and they'll be moot soon anyway.
Do a Google for banana +fungus to see what I mean.

Maybe they can go back to growing hemp.

And the Haiti dictator, Papa-Doc was installed an maintained by the US,
wasn't he. What was the name of Ex-CIA & drugrunner that became chief of
"whatever", ah Noriega.

My point was that you, like so many others, appeared to
believe that the U.S. invented this kind of behavior. Nice
to see you, at least, know better. Now, what shall we do
about Europe-based corporations, who went along happily with
the "installation" of Saddam because he gladly did business
with them?

FTM, do you buy "multinational" frinst Nike products? I
make it a practice to buy only products made in first-world
countries wherever possible (damn near impossible for
certain items, like my 'puter). I see no reason to encourage
slave labor practices _anywhere_.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Rolavine wrote:

Subject: Re: Bush and our Future
From: Mark Fergerson


I'm not going to bother re-quoting this thread. Mark I'm glad your so in
control of your life and have managed to make a good safe spot for yourself.

So am I, thank you very much.

Why you are openly contemptuous of so some of our less fortunate techies? You
then say that doing electronic engineering is wrapping buggy whips, so I can
only guess your safe niche is well grounded in the general area of 'makes
nothing and pushes paper.' In short Mark your arrogance and coming on from a
high horse maybe quite impressive if only for the fact that this media does not
promote honesty.

"Arrogance"? Am I the only one here that wants to control
his own life _and_ does enough homework to make it possible?

_All_ manufacturing jobs are transitory (unless
technological advancement is artificially held back; do you
want that?), which means you don't plan your life around
them, and certainly don't base hopes of retirement on them.

As an example, do you really expect major electronics
manufacturers to employ hundreds of manual board-stuffers
when robots can do it better, faster, and cheaper? Do you
expect Governments to outlaw robots in favor of "fairness"?

How "fair" are you; when you did anything that might
eliminate manual labor jobs (like using mechanical plotters
instead of draftsmen), did you voluntarily give extra money
in taxes to help support the workers you displaced/failed to
hire?

And no, I do a very minimal amount of paper-pushing; it's
a "service" job. Electronics is now my hobby since all the
jobs I've held in the field got outsourced out from under
me. I just took the hint a bit earlier than you appear to be
willing to.

When I say the government has acted in ways to favor one section of the public
over another, you just come back with don't look to the government. While I
favor your approach I also value fairness in government decisions. It is quite
clear the Bush admin favors the rich over the middle and poor. Just paying the
bills is pretty good around here. I have lots of friends that were employed by
corporations who have been looking for tech work for months now. However, Mark,
be our guru, tell us about this amazing safe big buck paying, job that you have
so cleverly made for yourself? If you too gutless to do that then shut the hell
up.

Blah, blah, blah. My "outsource-proof" job is regional; I
can only do it here in PHX AZ, but then again I like hot
weather. Such jobs can be had anywhere you want to live;
just look around and find them.

Why do you expect "fairness" from governments? They're
flat-out incapable of it, all of them. Clinton was as big a
suckass to corporations as any Texan (except for Microsoft,
but that's because Gates wouldn't contribute big bucks to
the DNC), and Kerry's richer than Bush Sr. and Jr. put
together (the cite I gave from Forbes magazine was an ironic
clue). What makes you think Kerry'd do any better
"fairness"-wise?

Be your own damned guru. _You're_ the one who has to live
your life, so micromanage it yourself. If you're too
"gutless" to do that then get in the Welfare line with the
rest of the willing peasants. Did that sound "contemptuous"?
It was indeed intended to be. Adults ought to at least be
capable of making their own decisions and living by them.
People who don't behave like adults damn well deserve to be
managed like children.

Are you an adult? Act like one.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Rene Tschaggelar]

Mark Fergerson wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:


And the Haiti dictator, Papa-Doc was installed an maintained by the
US, wasn't he. What was the name of Ex-CIA & drugrunner that became
chief of
"whatever", ah Noriega.

My point was that you, like so many others, appeared to believe that
the U.S. invented this kind of behavior. Nice to see you, at least, know
better. Now, what shall we do about Europe-based corporations, who went
along happily with the "installation" of Saddam because he gladly did
business with them?

Good question. You're right.
We've been drifting off though. I was merely pointing out that
sometimes a new product sells better with the help of the
goverment.

Rene

 

[Tim Auton]

Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness> wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[snip]
A side effect was bangladesh which was built physically on hemp,
it got washed away and actually still is being washed away with
every flood.

See, that's a classic example of stupidity. You'd think whoever was
in charge there would have tried to find something else for them to do
to make money.

It has been a while since I saw that report. These insulas were
physically held together with the hemp they grew. And they didn't grow
it for dope but for the fibre. At least that was told.

Why the hell didn't they _move away_?

The place is severely overpopulated, a third of it floods every year
and most people don't own any land. Where are they supposed to _move
away_ to? Does the US want 138m Bangladeshis?


Tim
--
Love is a travelator.

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Tim Auton wrote:

Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness> wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:

[snip]

A side effect was bangladesh which was built physically on hemp,
it got washed away and actually still is being washed away with
every flood.

See, that's a classic example of stupidity. You'd think whoever was
in charge there would have tried to find something else for them to do
to make money.

It has been a while since I saw that report. These insulas were
physically held together with the hemp they grew. And they didn't grow
it for dope but for the fibre. At least that was told.

Why the hell didn't they _move away_?

The place is severely overpopulated,

And whose fault is that? What kind of nitwits are in charge?

...a third of it floods every year

So it's good to grow _something_ on.

and most people don't own any land.

One gets the government one deserves. Why do they permit
their warlords to treat them that way?

Where are they supposed to _move
away_ to? Does the US want 138m Bangladeshis?

If people would act locally, the U.S. (U.N., whatever)
wouldn't have to act globally.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:


And the Haiti dictator, Papa-Doc was installed an maintained by the
US, wasn't he. What was the name of Ex-CIA & drugrunner that became
chief of
"whatever", ah Noriega.


My point was that you, like so many others, appeared to believe that
the U.S. invented this kind of behavior. Nice to see you, at least,
know better. Now, what shall we do about Europe-based corporations,
who went along happily with the "installation" of Saddam because he
gladly did business with them?

Good question. You're right.

And I have no better idea than do you, except to be
extremely suspicious of the motives of anyone who starts off
with "Evil U.S. Corporations".

We've been drifting off though. I was merely pointing out that
sometimes a new product sells better with the help of the
goverment.

Well, of course. Wanna discuss Japan's
"Government-Industry Collusion"? Nobody seems to be upset
about that.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Mark Fergerson" <nunya@biz.ness> wrote in message
news:Mhcmc.12018$k24.5889@fed1read01...

Tim Auton wrote:

Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness> wrote:

Rene Tschaggelar wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:

[snip]

A side effect was bangladesh which was built physically on hemp,
it got washed away and actually still is being washed away with
every flood.

See, that's a classic example of stupidity. You'd think whoever was
in charge there would have tried to find something else for them to do
to make money.

It has been a while since I saw that report. These insulas were
physically held together with the hemp they grew. And they didn't grow
it for dope but for the fibre. At least that was told.

Why the hell didn't they _move away_?

The place is severely overpopulated,

And whose fault is that? What kind of nitwits are in charge?

...a third of it floods every year

So it's good to grow _something_ on.

and most people don't own any land.

One gets the government one deserves. Why do they permit
their warlords to treat them that way?

Where are they supposed to _move
away_ to? Does the US want 138m Bangladeshis?

If people would act locally, the U.S. (U.N., whatever)
wouldn't have to act globally.

Mark L. Fergerson

And some yanks have the gall to wonder why the rest of the world think

they're pig-ignorant, selfish dumb-arses. Go figure.

Ken