Building an electric... bike!? (electric motors)

[Allan]

I'd like to build an electric bike/trike (or something) with our kids.
I was considering a Briggs & Stratton "Etek Motor" - until I realised
it has brushes.

Would I be correct in thinking a brushless (dc) motor is more
suitable? Is that what those nasty k-mart scooters use??

Does a brushless dc motor have "consumables" (for want of a better
word) like brushes that I'm not aware of, that will need to be
replaced?

I guess basically I'm after suggestions for a long-lasting, reliable
motor with a good bit of torque. Something that won't burn out in 12
months time and we can pull out and build something else with.

Also while I think of it, I'm so cheap I don't even want to pay
$1.40/L just to get bread and milk anymore. ; ) So if anyone knows
of any Australian sites where someone has built electric
bikes/trikes/cars themselves - that would be appreciated. Or good US
one... There is lots of US sites of course, but parts they refer to
are often not available here - but open to suggestions from either
side of the pond.

Thanks for reading...

Allan

 

[Mike]

mmm Lot of time and energy to design/build or rather reinvent
old technology with all the associated costs - which would
probably be far less overall than using the car <shrug>, so
start the spreadhseet now...

Petrol is cheaper now than it was 10 years ago, all else
considered, and milk is even cheaper, so take some of what you
gain on milk and put it to the petrol and think of doing
something useful with your time...

<chuckle>

ie. Petrol = Money,
Time is the killer

cheers

Mike



In article <fin5825pkhh4idijuqnbkcm140mv9i513m@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

I'd like to build an electric bike/trike (or something) with our kids.
I was considering a Briggs & Stratton "Etek Motor" - until I realised
it has brushes.

Would I be correct in thinking a brushless (dc) motor is more
suitable? Is that what those nasty k-mart scooters use??

Does a brushless dc motor have "consumables" (for want of a better
word) like brushes that I'm not aware of, that will need to be
replaced?

I guess basically I'm after suggestions for a long-lasting, reliable
motor with a good bit of torque. Something that won't burn out in 12
months time and we can pull out and build something else with.

Also while I think of it, I'm so cheap I don't even want to pay
$1.40/L just to get bread and milk anymore. ; ) So if anyone knows
of any Australian sites where someone has built electric
bikes/trikes/cars themselves - that would be appreciated. Or good US
one... There is lots of US sites of course, but parts they refer to
are often not available here - but open to suggestions from either
side of the pond.

Thanks for reading...

Allan

--
Regards
Mike
* GMC/VL Commodore, Calais VL Turbo FuseRail that wont warp or melt !
* High grade milspec ignition driver electronics now in development
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au

 

[Allan]

On 04 Jun 2006 16:55:28 GMT, erazmus@iinet.net.au (Mike) wrote:

mmm Lot of time and energy to design/build or rather reinvent
old technology with all the associated costs - which would
probably be far less overall than using the car <shrug>, so
start the spreadhseet now...

Petrol is cheaper now than it was 10 years ago, all else
considered, and milk is even cheaper, so take some of what you
gain on milk and put it to the petrol and think of doing
something useful with your time...

chuckle

ie. Petrol = Money,
Time is the killer

cheers

Mike

Er... Thanks for the reply, but a 7 and a 10 year old can't drive a
full sized car around our backyard. ; )

Anyone else here done/know of anything along these lines?

Allan

In article <fin5825pkhh4idijuqnbkcm140mv9i513m@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

I'd like to build an electric bike/trike (or something) with our kids.
I was considering a Briggs & Stratton "Etek Motor" - until I realised
it has brushes.

Would I be correct in thinking a brushless (dc) motor is more
suitable? Is that what those nasty k-mart scooters use??

Does a brushless dc motor have "consumables" (for want of a better
word) like brushes that I'm not aware of, that will need to be
replaced?

I guess basically I'm after suggestions for a long-lasting, reliable
motor with a good bit of torque. Something that won't burn out in 12
months time and we can pull out and build something else with.

Also while I think of it, I'm so cheap I don't even want to pay
$1.40/L just to get bread and milk anymore. ; ) So if anyone knows
of any Australian sites where someone has built electric
bikes/trikes/cars themselves - that would be appreciated. Or good US
one... There is lots of US sites of course, but parts they refer to
are often not available here - but open to suggestions from either
side of the pond.

Thanks for reading...

Allan

 

[Pete]

A few minutes with Google turned these links up:

http://evchallenge.murdoch.edu.au/making.html

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s916760.htm

http://www.imtmotors.com/ebike.htm

http://mcs.une.edu.au/~ashley/ebike/index.html

http://www.designawards.com.au/ADA/01-02/STUDENT%20DESIGN/624/624.HTM

There's lots of interesting links for you to chase down in this next one:

http://www.aust.stgeorgeonline.com.au/index.php?browse=/Business/Consumer_Goods_and_Services/Sporting_Goods/Cycling/Electric/

There's a zillion more links in Google - informational, DIY and pre-made
(but all the pre-mades seem to cost way over $1K!).

Peter

 

[sarleeeepy bo bo`s]

Try here.
http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/motors.html


"Allan" <justallan@COLDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fin5825pkhh4idijuqnbkcm140mv9i513m@4ax.com...

I'd like to build an electric bike/trike (or something) with our kids.
I was considering a Briggs & Stratton "Etek Motor" - until I realised
it has brushes.

Would I be correct in thinking a brushless (dc) motor is more
suitable? Is that what those nasty k-mart scooters use??

Does a brushless dc motor have "consumables" (for want of a better
word) like brushes that I'm not aware of, that will need to be
replaced?

I guess basically I'm after suggestions for a long-lasting, reliable
motor with a good bit of torque. Something that won't burn out in 12
months time and we can pull out and build something else with.

Also while I think of it, I'm so cheap I don't even want to pay
$1.40/L just to get bread and milk anymore. ; ) So if anyone knows
of any Australian sites where someone has built electric
bikes/trikes/cars themselves - that would be appreciated. Or good US
one... There is lots of US sites of course, but parts they refer to
are often not available here - but open to suggestions from either
side of the pond.

Thanks for reading...

Allan

 

[quietguy]

Allen, if you haven't already been there have a look at the Oatly
Electronics site - they were (last time I was there) selling motors and
controllers for electric bikes/scooters at what seemed VG prices

David

Allan wrote:

I'd like to build an electric bike/trike (or something) with our kids.
I was considering a Briggs & Stratton "Etek Motor" - until I realised
it has brushes.

Would I be correct in thinking a brushless (dc) motor is more
suitable? Is that what those nasty k-mart scooters use??

Does a brushless dc motor have "consumables" (for want of a better
word) like brushes that I'm not aware of, that will need to be
replaced?

I guess basically I'm after suggestions for a long-lasting, reliable
motor with a good bit of torque. Something that won't burn out in 12
months time and we can pull out and build something else with.

Also while I think of it, I'm so cheap I don't even want to pay
$1.40/L just to get bread and milk anymore. ; ) So if anyone knows
of any Australian sites where someone has built electric
bikes/trikes/cars themselves - that would be appreciated. Or good US
one... There is lots of US sites of course, but parts they refer to
are often not available here - but open to suggestions from either
side of the pond.

Thanks for reading...

Allan

 

[two bob]

Petrol is cheaper now than it was 10 years ago, all else

How do you work that one out? In 10 years petrol has more than doubled in
price, my income has gone up far less than double in the same period.

considered, and milk is even cheaper, so take some of what you
gain on milk and put it to the petrol and think of doing
something useful with your time...

 

[Mike]

In article <l0r682lkeu3od6f3sst9gco1l8jv8orhgb@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

Er... Thanks for the reply, but a 7 and a 10 year old can't drive a
full sized car around our backyard. ; )

The more direct route is a small petrol engine, such as off a radio
control two stroke petrol car, car more interesting to make work
and far more long term interest retained by participants. If you go
the route of electric motor and associated batteries, interest will
diminish as the performance will lack and the batteries will invariably
fail and the project will fizzle out...

Anyone else here done/know of anything along these lines?

See it done a couple of times, electric bike = nice idea in principle
until you do some time management. As its for kids there are many
more opportunities to learn with mechanics and overall design concepts
if you go down the ICE route...

Allan

In article <fin5825pkhh4idijuqnbkcm140mv9i513m@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

I'd like to build an electric bike/trike (or something) with our kids.
I was considering a Briggs & Stratton "Etek Motor" - until I realised
it has brushes.

Would I be correct in thinking a brushless (dc) motor is more
suitable? Is that what those nasty k-mart scooters use??

Does a brushless dc motor have "consumables" (for want of a better
word) like brushes that I'm not aware of, that will need to be
replaced?

I guess basically I'm after suggestions for a long-lasting, reliable
motor with a good bit of torque. Something that won't burn out in 12
months time and we can pull out and build something else with.

Also while I think of it, I'm so cheap I don't even want to pay
$1.40/L just to get bread and milk anymore. ; ) So if anyone knows
of any Australian sites where someone has built electric
bikes/trikes/cars themselves - that would be appreciated. Or good US
one... There is lots of US sites of course, but parts they refer to
are often not available here - but open to suggestions from either
side of the pond.

Thanks for reading...

Allan

--
Regards
Mike
* GMC/VL Commodore, Calais VL Turbo FuseRail that wont warp or melt !
* High grade milspec ignition driver electronics now in development
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au

 

[Allan]

On 05 Jun 2006 10:49:33 GMT, erazmus@iinet.net.au (Mike) wrote:

In article <l0r682lkeu3od6f3sst9gco1l8jv8orhgb@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

Er... Thanks for the reply, but a 7 and a 10 year old can't drive a
full sized car around our backyard. ; )

The more direct route is a small petrol engine, such as off a radio
control two stroke petrol car, car more interesting to make work
and far more long term interest retained by participants. If you go
the route of electric motor and associated batteries, interest will
diminish as the performance will lack and the batteries will invariably
fail and the project will fizzle out...

Yep - we have a small two stroke lying around. Still have that in the
back of my mind as a last resort. Thanks!

 

[Allan]

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:08:49 +0800, "sarleeeepy bo bo`s"
<bocchoi@spamx.com.au> wrote:

Try here.
http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/motors.html

Some good stuff there - thanks!

 

[Allan]

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 01:32:49 GMT, quietguy
<quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:

Allen, if you haven't already been there have a look at the Oatly
Electronics site - they were (last time I was there) selling motors and
controllers for electric bikes/scooters at what seemed VG prices

David

Thanks!

 

[Allan]

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 10:43:15 +1000, Pete <pjetson@yahoo.com> wrote:

A few minutes with Google turned these links up:

Great stuff - thanks. For some reason most of the stuff I came up
with was in the USA.

 

[Max Harding vk3jin]

I have plans for a steam powered push bike.
"Allan" <justallan@COLDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ije882pg3n6a446vfadhfl8pl5kf0gf3r5@4ax.com...

On 05 Jun 2006 10:49:33 GMT, erazmus@iinet.net.au (Mike) wrote:

In article <l0r682lkeu3od6f3sst9gco1l8jv8orhgb@4ax.com>,
justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

Er... Thanks for the reply, but a 7 and a 10 year old can't drive a
full sized car around our backyard. ; )

The more direct route is a small petrol engine, such as off a radio
control two stroke petrol car, car more interesting to make work
and far more long term interest retained by participants. If you go
the route of electric motor and associated batteries, interest will
diminish as the performance will lack and the batteries will invariably
fail and the project will fizzle out...

Yep - we have a small two stroke lying around. Still have that in the
back of my mind as a last resort. Thanks!

 

[Mike]

In article <448514f2$0$26629$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, maxh10@optusnet.com.au says...

I have plans for a steam powered push bike.

<chuckle>

The gearing on a penny farthing would be of interest but,
where do you put the reservoir for the torque convertor,

<shrug>


--
Regards
Mike
* GMC/VL Commodore, Calais VL Turbo FuseRail that wont warp or melt !
* High grade milspec ignition driver electronics now in development
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au

 

[Allan]

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:39:27 +1000, "Max Harding vk3jin"
<maxh10@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

I have plans for a steam powered push bike.

You have my respect. I would love to own the Pritchard Steam car.
Wish I had the knowledge to build a steam... anything.

 

[Mike]

In article <639a82h2774h83go86f516ud690fvkuam9@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:39:27 +1000, "Max Harding vk3jin"
maxh10@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

I have plans for a steam powered push bike.

You have my respect. I would love to own the Pritchard Steam car.
Wish I had the knowledge to build a steam... anything.

Its actually much easier than you'd think:-

a. Boil water in a vessel that can keep a high pressure
b. Use the steam to push a piston with a valve that switches
the flow off when its on the return, ie Pipes and valve.
c. Condense the steam back to water and pump this back into
boiler.

These days you dont need proprietary mechanical valves, use cheap
electronics and solenoid valves, you can then vary the timing to
suit etc.

Have seen a V8 chevy motor many years ago that was configured to
run off a waste steam source, what the guy did was:-

1. Change the valve timing, this is also easier than you'd think.
2. Use an oil/water separator on the sump, so the sump wouldnt
slowly fill up with water, I think it was some centrifugal
system to ensure any emulsion was nicely cleared.

No need for sparks or ignition etc, (I seem to recall also he ran
some pressure sensors off the old plug holes) just need the inlet
manifold to be able to hold the full waste steam pressure. In his
situation he didnt worry about recycling the steam to a condensor,
just let it exhaust to atmosphere - this was fairly efficient because
the exhaust would be straight to air so lower exit pressure and no need
for a water pump back to the bolier. If I recall corectly it ran
at about 2000 to 2400 rpms or so. Based on BMEP he could have got
something like 250 Hp from his waste steam source, might even be
legacy links on web, last time I looked was 12 years ago <shrug>



--
Regards
Mike
* GMC/VL Commodore, Calais VL Turbo FuseRail that wont warp or melt !
* High grade milspec ignition driver electronics now in development
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au

 

[Clifford Heath]

Mike wrote:

Have seen a V8 chevy motor many years ago that was configured to
run off a waste steam source

I wonder if it ran a week, or a month, before rusting out?

 

[Mike]

In article <44862177$0$25129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, no.spam@please.net says...

Mike wrote:
Have seen a V8 chevy motor many years ago that was configured to
run off a waste steam source

I wonder if it ran a week, or a month, before rusting out?

Dont know, I wondered about that at the time, though if its 'dry'
steam and the engine is in continuous use, without much opportunity
for condensation and presumably the oil/water separator is working
or there isnt much steam blowby then you'd expect some considerable
time, wonder how long ordinary older steam engines ran with their
cast iron pistons ?


--
Regards
Mike
* GMC/VL Commodore, Calais VL Turbo FuseRail that wont warp or melt !
* High grade milspec ignition driver electronics now in development
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au

 

[Allan]

On 07 Jun 2006 04:43:59 GMT, erazmus@iinet.net.au (Mike) wrote:

In article <44862177$0$25129$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, no.spam@please.net says...

Mike wrote:
Have seen a V8 chevy motor many years ago that was configured to
run off a waste steam source

I wonder if it ran a week, or a month, before rusting out?

Dont know, I wondered about that at the time, though if its 'dry'
steam and the engine is in continuous use, without much opportunity
for condensation and presumably the oil/water separator is working
or there isnt much steam blowby then you'd expect some considerable
time, wonder how long ordinary older steam engines ran with their
cast iron pistons ?

I saw an article years ago about a VW bug - still have it somewhere, I
might dig it out. I *think* it said titanium pistons were fitted.
Anyway, point being of course engines are modified to prevent rust. I
have always wished I could learn to build steam engines - maybe one
day I can find a decent book on it. [sigh]

 

[Mike]

In article <5cqc821u9gmoik7tmpse06forutsn5t3d4@4ax.com>, justallan@COLDhotmail.com says...

I wonder if it ran a week, or a month, before rusting out?

Dont know, I wondered about that at the time, though if its 'dry'
steam and the engine is in continuous use, without much opportunity
for condensation and presumably the oil/water separator is working
or there isnt much steam blowby then you'd expect some considerable
time, wonder how long ordinary older steam engines ran with their
cast iron pistons ?

I saw an article years ago about a VW bug - still have it somewhere, I
might dig it out. I *think* it said titanium pistons were fitted.
Anyway, point being of course engines are modified to prevent rust. I
have always wished I could learn to build steam engines - maybe one
day I can find a decent book on it. [sigh]

Yes I would like to see that, I have a heat engine project on the back
burner at moment <great pun>. Basically arranging best use of pressure,
also have a pair of unused VL/Nissan 6 cyl engines in the back shed
that havent rusted yet, have in mind using them at some point though I
robbed one of them of big end bearings for my VLT...

Steam engines are really really simple, just pressure and applied to
a piston, thats effectively it...

--
Regards
Mike
* GMC/VL Commodore, Calais VL Turbo FuseRail that wont warp or melt !
* High grade milspec ignition driver electronics now in development
* Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au