Building a Fibre NBN on a Copper budget

[Damian]

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Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote

http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/

Watch the 20 minute video on that page.

Trouble with that line is that Turdbull has decided to go
for FTTN instead.

For obvious reasons.

Yeah, someone eventually got it thru his thick skull that
wireless
was never gunna be able to do anything like what FTTP can
do.

Are you telling me Turnball previously believed in
wireless'ing the whole country without fibre??!!
I find it hard to believe!!!


Turnball's not in the business of dragging projects forever
on top of budget blow outs.

But his approach will cost even more than FTTP will.

Not correct in terms of what he promises in terms of speed
and rollout completion.
It may or may not cost more to switch the remainder of the
PSTN/POTS that he leaves as it is from the local node
onwards, into full fibre network, eventually.
But, that's still debatable.

I'd have to agree with Rod in this instance (yes, strange
things do happen!).

But, you are not. Rod's against both governments and
opposition's version of NBN.
Where he stands is unclear.

Only to those as stupid as you.

I have said repeatedly now that we should be providing
a decent broadband service for those who can't currently
have one if they want one, and that how that is best done
varys with where they are.

That's pretty vague, isn't it?!!

Nope.

Seriously lacks any technical details.

Nope, those are there right now.

How can the outback towns get at least 20Mbps?!!

They don’t need at least 20Mbps.

ADSL2+ will do them fine and most of them have that right now.

The problem isnt the towns, its those well out of the towns.

Is is possible the current satellite interenet technology to
provide a minimum satisfactory speed?!

Yes.

What about the towns(either regional outback ones or not so
regional) that need 50Mbps speed(at least)?!

None of them need anything like that.

You need to give some tech details,

Nope.

otherwise they are just sweet words that may turn bitter.

Nope.

According to him, we already have decent broadband all around
the country.

I have never ever said anything even remotely resembling
anything like that.

Yes, you said something remotely resemble that.

Nope.

I quote you here,

"I just don’t see any reason to be spending anything like $50B
NOW when most of us have
a very viable broadband service if we want it."

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that MOST OF US is nothing even remotely
resembling anything like ALL OF US.

"It makes a lot more sense to be delivering a decent broadband
service to those who can't currently have one

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that THOSE WHO CAN'T CURRENTLY HAVE
ONE is nothing even remotely resembling anything
like ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

using whatever makes the most sense with those who can't
currently have a decent broadband service."

And you provide us very little detail how you gonna do that!

Because anyone with even half a clue who has been following
the debate about the NBN knows that that is by using whatever
of ADSL2+. wireless the way the NBN is doing it right now, and
satellite and FTTP are the way to do that.

If that's the case why are you saying FTTP NBN is a waste?!!!

Because it costs a lot more than $50B.

So, you obviously have a plan to do FTTP NBN for less than $50B,
right?

Wrong. I keep saying we should only be providing broadband where
there isn't decent broadband already available to anyone who wants it.

That’s not going to cost anything like $50B.

So, how do we provide decent broadband to areas that currently can't
get broadband services like, ADSL and cable?!

I already told you that more than once. The type of very specific
wireless that the NBN is already rolling out, satellite and FTTP,
particularly with new subdivisions.

Ok. You are in favour of FTTP on new subdivisions, that makes sense after
all.

AFAIK, current satellite internet ain't that decent in terms of current
speeds they provide.
Tell me I'm wrong??!!

Yes, you are wrong, particularly for the most remote
communitys that don’t have fiber optic into the town at all.

I must be wrong then.
These are few deals available now, whether it's NBN type or non NBN sat
internet
http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/satellite/
http://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/satellite/
http://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/satellite/srss.php

Dunno whether i should trust them with 5-6Mbps speed they claim to provide
though.

And also not sure the reason for Telstra sat deals are crap with speed and
price wise.

Not that there are very many of those at all left now tho.

Its still the best way to do broadband for the largest
rural propertys where its not feasible to do by fiber either.

No argument there. Vast majority of the central Australia won't be feasible
to cover by fibre.
Mobile+sat internet is the solution.

My problem is that, many outback towns/stations that I visit have shitty sat
internet connection speeds.
Dunno how to explain that, if the things are so promising as it's being
implied.

I'm dying here to hear more details of your broadband plan for
the nation.

Then just die quietly.

'Whatever' isn't good enough.

You get no say what so ever on what is or is not good enough.

Pollies like to hear details regardless of whether they can
understand it or not.

No one with even half a clue actually gives a flying red fuck
what those stupid clowns might or might not like to hear.

Compare the coalition's
rejigged-one-more-time-'cause-we've-got-NFI policy to that of
roadworks. Let's take the example of majority of the M5 from
Liverpool to Lakemba.

They had the ability to implement three lanes in each
direction when it was being built, for nominally 15% more than
the cost of building two lanes in each direction - but they
chose not to. Now the widening of the road to three lanes each
way is costing them 150% of the original building cost.

Let's pluck an exemplaery figure out of my arse - if the
original cost of building the M5 from Liverpool to Lakemba was
$1B, it would've cost them $1.15B to make it a six-lane road -
but it's now costing them a total (including original woks) of
$2.5B.

As financially painful as it might be in the short term, a
complete investment in infrastructure will yield massive
rewards going into the future without constantly
"sticky-taping" costly improvements as the need arises for
each.

That doesn't mean to say I fully agree with the way in which
it was implemented; engaging contractors with NFI to do the
job just because they said they can was an utterly idiotic
decision to make, not at all different to the way in which the
"free roof insulation" scheme was implemented.

Ultimately, we _do_ need this type of infrastructure if we're
to even survive through the remainder of the century - we no
longer have a viable manufacturing industry, most of our
intellectual resources are being shipped out, and anybody who
thinks we're getting a fair price for the ore that's being dug
out of our land is an idiot.

Without providing technological infrastrucutre, it won't be
long before we end up being another Greece. Why do you think
India's booming? It's not because of their natural resources
and definitely not because of their capable citizens - it's
because their government was astute enough to realise that
providing appropriate tools would allow even incompetents to
flourish in the new world economy.

 

[Damian]

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Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> wrote
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote

http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/

Watch the 20 minute video on that page.

On 17th July 2013 I delivered a talk at the CommsDay Wholesale
and Data Centre Summit in Sydney about the NBN called
"The Ideal Wholesale NBN Market". Simon Hackett, Internode
founder

This talk proposes just a few of the many ways in which the
build cost,
build time, and operating cost of the FTTH NBN could be lowered
(perhaps dramatically lowered) by auditing the entire existing
design
and by applying the fruits of some lateral thinking about what
is really
needed to make the network work - and what the network can do
without.

The author presents a good case based on his position as a
major Retail Service Provider. He is advocating handing over
a larger share of the cost, and therefore the profit, to RSPs.

Not that large a share, actually. And he is actually talking
about the very real problem that the cost to the RSP is
supposed to dramatically increase over time too.

The current NBN Co Network Terminating Unit has four
ports and can offer a choice of RSPs but Hackett wants
to alter the system so that there is only a single RSP and
even proposes that the RSP should supply the NTU.

Yes.

While Hackett is probably right and
the extra ports will be largely unused

I doubt it with PayTV and the net alone.

While operations like his and now iinet that he sold
out to are certainly interested in providing that along
with the net service, that isn't what Foxtel wants to see.

they provide a unique opportunity for imaginative extra services.

Yes, but with a significant cost in what ends
up in the consumer's place as he points out.

The provision of a free government (and other)
services port seems an excellent idea.

Makes more sense to have that included in
the PayTV side of things, but at no cost for
those who just want the free to air channels.

Eliminating the POTS ports would also channel
the supply of telephone services via an RSP

Not necessarily with so many doing that
stuff with the mobile phone system now.

whereas the NBN Co design allows a telephone-only
connection using the customers existing telephones.

Yes, but as he points out, at a very significant cost for
those phone only connections, for what is as he points out
something that is seen with fewer and fewer customers now.

Does it actually make any real sense to be ripping out all that
POTS copper and replacing it with a much more expensive
way of providing POTS services for those customers ?

The reason the NBN wants to do that is because you then
have no choice but to use the NBN because the copper is
gone and they then can claim that most use the NBN service.

But in reality most would just use a mobile phone if the copper
is ripped out, most of them wouldn't bother with the NBN unless
they are too stupid to work out how to use a mobile phone and
just want someone to do everything for free and carry on
regardless
and in effect by grossly subsidised by everyone else for that
approach.

His proposal to revert to the original 7 points of interconnect
also limits competition. I believe the additional points of
interconnect were added at the instigation of the ACCC
because they would allow more localised service providers

But there are in fact fuck all of those left anymore for various
reasons.

Does it really make any sense to be forcing everyone who
wants to operate nationally to be spending a hell of a lot more
just so almost no one can do a local service more cheaply ?

and to avoid making existing telco's fibre useless.
They do increase the costs for a national RSP.

And dramatically so too.

The costings that Hackett presents are alarming but he does not
provide an estimate of any savings to NBN Co of his changes

And its clear its only a small part of the total cost
of the NBN even if he doesn't spell that out himself.

let alone an estimate of the added costs to the consumer.

He did claim it wouldn't cost much more at and is
likely right about that with the RSP provided NTU.

I agree that the cost of the NBN should be tax payer subsidised.

I don't when most of us already have a decent broadband service.

We don't.

We do.

Most of us do much more than usenet and wikepedia, etc surfing.
We download and upload a fair bit.

ADSL2+ and cable are fine for that.

Bandwidth demand due to audio-video material is growing rapidly.

Works fine over ADSL2+ and cable.

Wonder why it's not readiily available in outback towns!

With cable, that’s because they arent enough of a market
to warrant cable, they get satellite PayTV instead.

I'm not too worried about cable, even I don't have cable in my
neighbourhood.
It ain't worth the trouble laying cables when ADSL is fast enough for
most of the average people.


ADSL2+ is available in most towns.

Near the towns, that may be true.

It is true.

Further away from the town outside ADSL availability circle they can
only rely on satellite internet, right?!

Wrong. They all have wireless available too.

At what average speeds, according to your research?!

Only one step down from the 4G seen in the larger
towns now and that will be changing over time too
as 4G moves out to everywhere on the Telstra system.

That sounds promising.
I'm yet to trial a 4G phone and speeds they can provide.

I don't see that transferring a small fraction of those
costs to the consumer via the RSP is a benefit

And it can only be a small fraction.

especially if it limits access to the NBN.

It doesn't.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damianandrews@y7mail.com> wrote in message
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"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
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JB <jungle.bunnies@big.scrub.org.invalid> wrote:
[...]
Regardless, with empty nest and twilight years fast approaching we are
selling and moving to a unit in Townsville we bought some years ago.
We hope to be in by September should our dear tenants vacate the lease.
There is why I post.
Information we have so far is saying FTTN(?) will be connected to
the unit in August coming. Our problem is we have no foreseeable need
for the bandwidth plans being offered, and baulk at the costs which is
more
than we pay now, remembering that use is a waste as we believe we are
subsidising others with our meagre 500 - 800MB per month, tops.
So I ask if there is any plan known to the board which will provide that
low a usage and reflect a low cost. I understand the telephone will be
disconnected, with us to consider that also in that we have avoided
"bundling" until now and now it seems we will have to bundle on
current offers being made?

With such low usage, a *mobile* Internet connection will probably be
the cheapest and fast enough.

Even with 'expensive' Telstra and even on pre-paid, that shouldn't set
you back more than $20-$30 a month. Or you can take the easy/cheap(er)
route: 12GB at $180 with a 1 year expiry time (i.e. average 1GB/month at
average $15/month).

If you use a mobile broadband modem:

http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/mobile-broadband/prepaid/rates/index.htm

If you use a mobile phone as a data modem:

http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/prepaid-mobiles/offers-rates/plus-packs

The data costs for the 'mobile-phone' products are somewhat lower than
for the 'mobile-broadband' products, but the speeds are lower. I use
'mobile-phone' and 'mobile-broadband' in quotes, because you probably
can use a 'mobile-phone' SIM in a 'mobile-broadband' modem and vice
versa, at least that has been the case for the 'mobile-phone' SIMs I
used.

FYI/FWIW, I use the mobile-phone products (700MB Browse Plus Pack for
$20) when I'm in Oz (for 2-3 months at a time). One of my Aussie rellies
uses the 12GB at $180 with a 1 year expiry time mobile-broadband
product.

Which company's offering those products?! Telstra, obviously.
It's interesting they don't have prepaid mobile broadband packages with
long expiry date and low data allowance!

They do actually.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damianandrews@y7mail.com> wrote in message
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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JB <jungle.bunnies@big.scrub.org.invalid> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

"reply to" set for aus.computers

reversed

Hello World.

Goodbye Worm.
I read the statement in attribution "There is no jungle in this country"
to then keyphrase search the owner. Ignore my post should you be sure
you (poster) are right.

I know he is right.
There is no jungle in this country.

Where I live;

That's not live...

http://ozforecast.com.au/cgi-bin/weather.cgi?station=Mt+Myrtle.QLD
I assure you it is "jungle" - Mega Acres of it!

Wrong.
And yes, some who are 30K from the nearest town
exchange can have adsl off a CMUX or RIM or even
one of those exchanges in a shipping container sized
thing that are so common in rural areas outside towns.

The section of your post that interests me.
We are using an ADSL connection, where the exchange is I have no idea
but I suspect Mt. Myrtle which is around four kilometres away, as the
crow flies. During the wet season the connection is 85% out of service,
I am told due to water intrusion of the cable pits.

In more than 5 years "ADSL noise" is proven to be nonrepairable.
The problems with installing fibre here would parallel those of the
existing cable (I would think)

But wouldn't care about water.
but whatever we have been told it will happen by
20-------------------->?

Not possible to say given that Labor will be flushed where they belong.

Dreaming!.....

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of
it.

even if they lose, it won't be anywhere near a flush.

You watch. They'll be flushed as comprehensively as NSW and Qld Labor where.

That’s why the Dud was assassinated in the first place and why
Juliar was assassinated too and why almost all of the ministers
have decided to pull the plug on their political careers now.

Regardless, with empty nest and twilight years fast approaching we are
selling and moving to a unit in Townsville we bought some years ago.
We hope to be in by September should our dear tenants vacate the lease.
There is why I post.

Information we have so far is saying FTTN(?) will be connected to the
unit in August coming. Our problem is we have no foreseeable need for
the bandwidth plans being offered, and baulk at the costs which is more
than we pay now, remembering that use is a waste as we believe we are
subsidising others with our meagre 500 - 800MB per month, tops.

So I ask if there is any plan known to the board which will provide that
low a usage and reflect a low cost.

Yes, dodo has one.
I understand the telephone will be disconnected, with us to consider
that also in that we have avoided "bundling" until now and now it seems
we will have to bundle on current offers being made?

No, its still optional with most.
Please no more of this jungle denial platform[*]phobia. LOL

This is no laughing matter, and nothing to do with fear either.

No fear, No favours, eh?!!

Nope.

 

[Rod Speed]

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Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote

http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/

Watch the 20 minute video on that page.

Trouble with that line is that Turdbull has decided to go
for FTTN instead.

For obvious reasons.

Yeah, someone eventually got it thru his thick skull that
wireless
was never gunna be able to do anything like what FTTP can
do.

Are you telling me Turnball previously believed in
wireless'ing the whole country without fibre??!!
I find it hard to believe!!!


Turnball's not in the business of dragging projects
forever on top of budget blow outs.

But his approach will cost even more than FTTP will.

Not correct in terms of what he promises in terms of speed
and rollout completion.
It may or may not cost more to switch the remainder of the
PSTN/POTS that he leaves as it is from the local node
onwards, into full fibre network, eventually.
But, that's still debatable.

I'd have to agree with Rod in this instance (yes, strange
things do happen!).

But, you are not. Rod's against both governments and
opposition's version of NBN.
Where he stands is unclear.

Only to those as stupid as you.

I have said repeatedly now that we should be providing
a decent broadband service for those who can't currently
have one if they want one, and that how that is best done
varys with where they are.

That's pretty vague, isn't it?!!

Nope.

Seriously lacks any technical details.

Nope, those are there right now.

How can the outback towns get at least 20Mbps?!!

They don’t need at least 20Mbps.

ADSL2+ will do them fine and most of them have that right now.

The problem isnt the towns, its those well out of the towns.

Is is possible the current satellite interenet technology to
provide a minimum satisfactory speed?!

Yes.

What about the towns(either regional outback ones or not so
regional) that need 50Mbps speed(at least)?!

None of them need anything like that.

You need to give some tech details,

Nope.

otherwise they are just sweet words that may turn bitter.

Nope.

According to him, we already have decent broadband all around
the country.

I have never ever said anything even remotely resembling
anything like that.

Yes, you said something remotely resemble that.

Nope.

I quote you here,

"I just don’t see any reason to be spending anything like $50B
NOW when most of us have
a very viable broadband service if we want it."

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that MOST OF US is nothing even remotely
resembling anything like ALL OF US.

"It makes a lot more sense to be delivering a decent broadband
service to those who can't currently have one

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that THOSE WHO CAN'T CURRENTLY HAVE
ONE is nothing even remotely resembling anything
like ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

using whatever makes the most sense with those who can't
currently have a decent broadband service."

And you provide us very little detail how you gonna do that!

Because anyone with even half a clue who has been following
the debate about the NBN knows that that is by using whatever
of ADSL2+. wireless the way the NBN is doing it right now, and
satellite and FTTP are the way to do that.

If that's the case why are you saying FTTP NBN is a waste?!!!

Because it costs a lot more than $50B.

So, you obviously have a plan to do FTTP NBN for less than $50B,
right?

Wrong. I keep saying we should only be providing broadband where
there isn't decent broadband already available to anyone who wants
it.

That’s not going to cost anything like $50B.

So, how do we provide decent broadband to areas that currently can't
get broadband services like, ADSL and cable?!

I already told you that more than once. The type of very specific
wireless that the NBN is already rolling out, satellite and FTTP,
particularly with new subdivisions.

Ok. You are in favour of FTTP on new subdivisions, that makes sense
after all.

AFAIK, current satellite internet ain't that decent in terms of current
speeds they provide.
Tell me I'm wrong??!!

Yes, you are wrong, particularly for the most remote
communitys that don’t have fiber optic into the town at all.

I must be wrong then.
These are few deals available now, whether it's NBN type or non NBN sat
internet

That’s bullshit, there are in fact plenty.

http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/satellite/
http://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/satellite/
http://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/satellite/srss.php

Dunno whether i should trust them with 5-6Mbps speed they claim to provide
though.

And also not sure the reason for Telstra sat deals are crap with speed and
price wise.

Because they got lumbered with that and don’t care about it.

Not that there are very many of those at all left now tho.

Its still the best way to do broadband for the largest
rural propertys where its not feasible to do by fiber either.

No argument there. Vast majority of the central Australia won't be
feasible to cover by fibre.
Mobile+sat internet is the solution.

There's no one there anyway.

My problem is that, many outback towns/stations that I visit have shitty
sat internet connection speeds.

Because no one is prepared to pay for anything better.

The schools do have decent net speeds.

Dunno how to explain that,

No one is prepared to pay for it for blow ins like you to use.

Most of the blow ins are only prepared to pay for a wireless broadband
service.

if the things are so promising as it's being implied.

I'm dying here to hear more details of your broadband plan for
the nation.

Then just die quietly.

'Whatever' isn't good enough.

You get no say what so ever on what is or is not good enough.

Pollies like to hear details regardless of whether they can
understand it or not.

No one with even half a clue actually gives a flying red fuck
what those stupid clowns might or might not like to hear.

Compare the coalition's
rejigged-one-more-time-'cause-we've-got-NFI policy to that of
roadworks. Let's take the example of majority of the M5 from
Liverpool to Lakemba.

They had the ability to implement three lanes in each
direction when it was being built, for nominally 15% more
than the cost of building two lanes in each direction - but
they chose not to. Now the widening of the road to three
lanes each way is costing them 150% of the original building
cost.

Let's pluck an exemplaery figure out of my arse - if the
original cost of building the M5 from Liverpool to Lakemba
was $1B, it would've cost them $1.15B to make it a six-lane
road - but it's now costing them a total (including original
woks) of $2.5B.

As financially painful as it might be in the short term, a
complete investment in infrastructure will yield massive
rewards going into the future without constantly
"sticky-taping" costly improvements as the need arises for
each.

That doesn't mean to say I fully agree with the way in which
it was implemented; engaging contractors with NFI to do the
job just because they said they can was an utterly idiotic
decision to make, not at all different to the way in which
the "free roof insulation" scheme was implemented.

Ultimately, we _do_ need this type of infrastructure if we're
to even survive through the remainder of the century - we no
longer have a viable manufacturing industry, most of our
intellectual resources are being shipped out, and anybody who
thinks we're getting a fair price for the ore that's being
dug out of our land is an idiot.

Without providing technological infrastrucutre, it won't be
long before we end up being another Greece. Why do you think
India's booming? It's not because of their natural resources
and definitely not because of their capable citizens - it's
because their government was astute enough to realise that
providing appropriate tools would allow even incompetents to
flourish in the new world economy.

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damianandrews@y7mail.com> wrote in message
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"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
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JB <jungle.bunnies@big.scrub.org.invalid> wrote:
[...]
Regardless, with empty nest and twilight years fast approaching we are
selling and moving to a unit in Townsville we bought some years ago.
We hope to be in by September should our dear tenants vacate the lease.
There is why I post.
Information we have so far is saying FTTN(?) will be connected to
the unit in August coming. Our problem is we have no foreseeable need
for the bandwidth plans being offered, and baulk at the costs which is
more
than we pay now, remembering that use is a waste as we believe we are
subsidising others with our meagre 500 - 800MB per month, tops.
So I ask if there is any plan known to the board which will provide
that
low a usage and reflect a low cost. I understand the telephone will be
disconnected, with us to consider that also in that we have avoided
"bundling" until now and now it seems we will have to bundle on
current offers being made?

With such low usage, a *mobile* Internet connection will probably be
the cheapest and fast enough.

Even with 'expensive' Telstra and even on pre-paid, that shouldn't set
you back more than $20-$30 a month. Or you can take the easy/cheap(er)
route: 12GB at $180 with a 1 year expiry time (i.e. average 1GB/month at
average $15/month).

If you use a mobile broadband modem:

http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/mobile-broadband/prepaid/rates/index.htm

If you use a mobile phone as a data modem:

http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/prepaid-mobiles/offers-rates/plus-packs

The data costs for the 'mobile-phone' products are somewhat lower than
for the 'mobile-broadband' products, but the speeds are lower. I use
'mobile-phone' and 'mobile-broadband' in quotes, because you probably
can use a 'mobile-phone' SIM in a 'mobile-broadband' modem and vice
versa, at least that has been the case for the 'mobile-phone' SIMs I
used.

FYI/FWIW, I use the mobile-phone products (700MB Browse Plus Pack for
$20) when I'm in Oz (for 2-3 months at a time). One of my Aussie rellies
uses the 12GB at $180 with a 1 year expiry time mobile-broadband
product.

Which company's offering those products?! Telstra, obviously.
It's interesting they don't have prepaid mobile broadband packages with
long expiry date and low data allowance!

They do actually.

Ok. couldn't see it in above links though.
I'm talking about paying $10/$20 for 1Gig and having the expiry date for
around a year or so.

>

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5rr3iFf8s8U1@mid.individual.net...

"Damian" <damianandrews@y7mail.com> wrote in message
news:kt9qpu$nn0$1@dont-email.me...

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5qmg9F85crU1@mid.individual.net...
JB <jungle.bunnies@big.scrub.org.invalid> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

"reply to" set for aus.computers

reversed

Hello World.

Goodbye Worm.
I read the statement in attribution "There is no jungle in this
country" to then keyphrase search the owner. Ignore my post should you
be sure you (poster) are right.

I know he is right.
There is no jungle in this country.

Where I live;

That's not live...

http://ozforecast.com.au/cgi-bin/weather.cgi?station=Mt+Myrtle.QLD
I assure you it is "jungle" - Mega Acres of it!

Wrong.
And yes, some who are 30K from the nearest town
exchange can have adsl off a CMUX or RIM or even
one of those exchanges in a shipping container sized
thing that are so common in rural areas outside towns.

The section of your post that interests me.
We are using an ADSL connection, where the exchange is I have no idea
but I suspect Mt. Myrtle which is around four kilometres away, as the
crow flies. During the wet season the connection is 85% out of service,
I am told due to water intrusion of the cable pits.

In more than 5 years "ADSL noise" is proven to be nonrepairable.
The problems with installing fibre here would parallel those of the
existing cable (I would think)

But wouldn't care about water.
but whatever we have been told it will happen by
20-------------------->?

Not possible to say given that Labor will be flushed where they belong.

Dreaming!.....

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of
it.

even if they lose, it won't be anywhere near a flush.

You watch. They'll be flushed as comprehensively as NSW and Qld Labor
where.

That’s why the Dud was assassinated in the first place and why
Juliar was assassinated too and why almost all of the ministers
have decided to pull the plug on their political careers now.

Regardless, with empty nest and twilight years fast approaching we are
selling and moving to a unit in Townsville we bought some years ago.
We hope to be in by September should our dear tenants vacate the lease.
There is why I post.

Information we have so far is saying FTTN(?) will be connected to the
unit in August coming. Our problem is we have no foreseeable need for
the bandwidth plans being offered, and baulk at the costs which is more
than we pay now, remembering that use is a waste as we believe we are
subsidising others with our meagre 500 - 800MB per month, tops.

So I ask if there is any plan known to the board which will provide
that low a usage and reflect a low cost.

Yes, dodo has one.
I understand the telephone will be disconnected, with us to consider
that also in that we have avoided "bundling" until now and now it seems
we will have to bundle on current offers being made?

No, its still optional with most.
Please no more of this jungle denial platform[*]phobia. LOL

This is no laughing matter, and nothing to do with fear either.

No fear, No favours, eh?!!

Nope.

I like that ending phrase by Andrew Bolt. )
>

 

[Damian]

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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote

http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/

Watch the 20 minute video on that page.

Trouble with that line is that Turdbull has decided to
go for FTTN instead.

For obvious reasons.

Yeah, someone eventually got it thru his thick skull that
wireless
was never gunna be able to do anything like what FTTP can
do.

Are you telling me Turnball previously believed in
wireless'ing the whole country without fibre??!!
I find it hard to believe!!!


Turnball's not in the business of dragging projects
forever on top of budget blow outs.

But his approach will cost even more than FTTP will.

Not correct in terms of what he promises in terms of speed
and rollout completion.
It may or may not cost more to switch the remainder of the
PSTN/POTS that he leaves as it is from the local node
onwards, into full fibre network, eventually.
But, that's still debatable.

I'd have to agree with Rod in this instance (yes, strange
things do happen!).

But, you are not. Rod's against both governments and
opposition's version of NBN.
Where he stands is unclear.

Only to those as stupid as you.

I have said repeatedly now that we should be providing
a decent broadband service for those who can't currently
have one if they want one, and that how that is best done
varys with where they are.

That's pretty vague, isn't it?!!

Nope.

Seriously lacks any technical details.

Nope, those are there right now.

How can the outback towns get at least 20Mbps?!!

They don’t need at least 20Mbps.

ADSL2+ will do them fine and most of them have that right now.

The problem isnt the towns, its those well out of the towns.

Is is possible the current satellite interenet technology to
provide a minimum satisfactory speed?!

Yes.

What about the towns(either regional outback ones or not so
regional) that need 50Mbps speed(at least)?!

None of them need anything like that.

You need to give some tech details,

Nope.

otherwise they are just sweet words that may turn bitter.

Nope.

According to him, we already have decent broadband all around
the country.

I have never ever said anything even remotely resembling
anything like that.

Yes, you said something remotely resemble that.

Nope.

I quote you here,

"I just don’t see any reason to be spending anything like $50B
NOW when most of us have
a very viable broadband service if we want it."

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that MOST OF US is nothing even remotely
resembling anything like ALL OF US.

"It makes a lot more sense to be delivering a decent broadband
service to those who can't currently have one

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to
grasp that THOSE WHO CAN'T CURRENTLY HAVE
ONE is nothing even remotely resembling anything
like ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

using whatever makes the most sense with those who can't
currently have a decent broadband service."

And you provide us very little detail how you gonna do that!

Because anyone with even half a clue who has been following
the debate about the NBN knows that that is by using whatever
of ADSL2+. wireless the way the NBN is doing it right now, and
satellite and FTTP are the way to do that.

If that's the case why are you saying FTTP NBN is a waste?!!!

Because it costs a lot more than $50B.

So, you obviously have a plan to do FTTP NBN for less than $50B,
right?

Wrong. I keep saying we should only be providing broadband where
there isn't decent broadband already available to anyone who wants
it.

That’s not going to cost anything like $50B.

So, how do we provide decent broadband to areas that currently can't
get broadband services like, ADSL and cable?!

I already told you that more than once. The type of very specific
wireless that the NBN is already rolling out, satellite and FTTP,
particularly with new subdivisions.

Ok. You are in favour of FTTP on new subdivisions, that makes sense
after all.

AFAIK, current satellite internet ain't that decent in terms of current
speeds they provide.
Tell me I'm wrong??!!

Yes, you are wrong, particularly for the most remote
communitys that don’t have fiber optic into the town at all.

I must be wrong then.
These are few deals available now, whether it's NBN type or non NBN sat
internet

That’s bullshit, there are in fact plenty.

That's exactly what I meant. Are you pissed again?!
I warned you about mixing crack with booze.

http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/satellite/
http://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/satellite/
http://www.skymesh.net.au/services/nbn/satellite/srss.php

Dunno whether i should trust them with 5-6Mbps speed they claim to
provide though.

And also not sure the reason for Telstra sat deals are crap with speed
and price wise.

Because they got lumbered with that and don’t care about it.

Not that there are very many of those at all left now tho.

Its still the best way to do broadband for the largest
rural propertys where its not feasible to do by fiber either.

No argument there. Vast majority of the central Australia won't be
feasible to cover by fibre.
Mobile+sat internet is the solution.

There's no one there anyway.

I was there, plenty other trekkers and resort owners.
Not to mention aborigenes.
They need broadband more than anyone else there.

My problem is that, many outback towns/stations that I visit have shitty
sat internet connection speeds.

Because no one is prepared to pay for anything better.

The resort owners can't afford decent internet?! They have no problem
charging scary prices on shitty tent accommodation.
Prices comes out there rear end. Must be a tough business.

The schools do have decent net speeds.

Didn't visit schools.
I wasn't there as a teacher.

Dunno how to explain that,

No one is prepared to pay for it for blow ins like you to use.

Ok.
Would they pay for it for blow outs like you?!

Most of the blow ins are only prepared to pay for a wireless broadband
service.

And wireless broadband in outback towns are crappy?!

if the things are so promising as it's being implied.

I'm dying here to hear more details of your broadband plan for
the nation.

Then just die quietly.

'Whatever' isn't good enough.

You get no say what so ever on what is or is not good enough.

Pollies like to hear details regardless of whether they can
understand it or not.

No one with even half a clue actually gives a flying red fuck
what those stupid clowns might or might not like to hear.

Compare the coalition's
rejigged-one-more-time-'cause-we've-got-NFI policy to that
of roadworks. Let's take the example of majority of the M5
from Liverpool to Lakemba.

They had the ability to implement three lanes in each
direction when it was being built, for nominally 15% more
than the cost of building two lanes in each direction - but
they chose not to. Now the widening of the road to three
lanes each way is costing them 150% of the original building
cost.

Let's pluck an exemplaery figure out of my arse - if the
original cost of building the M5 from Liverpool to Lakemba
was $1B, it would've cost them $1.15B to make it a six-lane
road - but it's now costing them a total (including original
woks) of $2.5B.

As financially painful as it might be in the short term, a
complete investment in infrastructure will yield massive
rewards going into the future without constantly
"sticky-taping" costly improvements as the need arises for
each.

That doesn't mean to say I fully agree with the way in which
it was implemented; engaging contractors with NFI to do the
job just because they said they can was an utterly idiotic
decision to make, not at all different to the way in which
the "free roof insulation" scheme was implemented.

Ultimately, we _do_ need this type of infrastructure if
we're to even survive through the remainder of the century -
we no longer have a viable manufacturing industry, most of
our intellectual resources are being shipped out, and
anybody who thinks we're getting a fair price for the ore
that's being dug out of our land is an idiot.

Without providing technological infrastrucutre, it won't be
long before we end up being another Greece. Why do you think
India's booming? It's not because of their natural resources
and definitely not because of their capable citizens - it's
because their government was astute enough to realise that
providing appropriate tools would allow even incompetents to
flourish in the new world economy.

 

[Baron]

Wow ! Must be going for a record...
The longest newspost in history.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[atec77]

On 2/08/2013 6:13 AM, Baron wrote:

Wow ! Must be going for a record...
The longest newspost in history.

certainly needs some trimming

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[yaputya]

"atec77" <"atec77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:kteg9f$ci7$1@dont-email.me...

On 2/08/2013 6:13 AM, Baron wrote:
Wow ! Must be going for a record...
The longest newspost in history.

certainly needs some trimming

It's the usenet version of verbal diarrhoea....

 

[F Murtz]

Potassium chloride.
You reckon it exists now?!


Does what exist? what you said or what you changed it to.

Your experties on Chemistry and language is amazing!
Can't you do better than picking on a simple typo?!
Not all of us have the luxury of a spell checker backed newsreader.
alt.languages.english is good place for such discussions/debates.
You sound like somebody's avatar's avatar!
A typo is usually involving adjacent letters, yours seem to be

dyslexic,Although I should not pick on that.

 

[atec77]

On 2/08/2013 6:44 AM, yaputya wrote:

"atec77" <"atec77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:kteg9f$ci7$1@dont-email.me...
On 2/08/2013 6:13 AM, Baron wrote:
Wow ! Must be going for a record...
The longest newspost in history.

certainly needs some trimming


It's the usenet version of verbal diarrhoea....


yes your response is nonsensical in my post is accurate and yours is shite

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[Damian]

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ktf61k$mcg$1@dont-email.me...

Potassium chloride.
You reckon it exists now?!


Does what exist? what you said or what you changed it to.

Your experties on Chemistry and language is amazing!
Can't you do better than picking on a simple typo?!
Not all of us have the luxury of a spell checker backed newsreader.
alt.languages.english is good place for such discussions/debates.
You sound like somebody's avatar's avatar!
A typo is usually involving adjacent letters, yours seem to be
dyslexic,Although I should not pick on that.

And you seem to be intellectually disabled to understand the difference
between a typo and dyslexia.
I won't pick on that though.

 

[F Murtz]

Damian wrote:

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ktf61k$mcg$1@dont-email.me...

Potassium chloride.
You reckon it exists now?!


Does what exist? what you said or what you changed it to.

Your experties on Chemistry and language is amazing!
Can't you do better than picking on a simple typo?!
Not all of us have the luxury of a spell checker backed newsreader.
alt.languages.english is good place for such discussions/debates.
You sound like somebody's avatar's avatar!
A typo is usually involving adjacent letters, yours seem to be
dyslexic,Although I should not pick on that.

And you seem to be intellectually disabled to understand the difference
between a typo and dyslexia.
I won't pick on that though.