Bloody digital!

[Sylvia Else]

Superman wrote:

On 2/01/2010 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 11:45 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:

'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly
pixilating, although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength
is 10! (full scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?


Are you using an outdoor antenna?

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way
splitter amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)

And why do the ads not pixilate? There must be some difference in the
nature of the transmission.

I wonder whether that's really the case. Ads occupy less time then
program material (though, admittedly, only half as much), and you'll
probably not be paying that much attention to them. So if they do
pixalate, you might not notice.

accepted


But, assuming the difference is real...

The word "pixilate" is used somewhat loosely. Overcompression can
create the situation where one becomes aware of the boundaries of the
16x16 pixel macroblocks, particularly during pans.

A burst of noise can destroy the data so that a number of macroblocks
show manifestly wrong content.

I wonder which of these effects you're noticing.

the latter


The difference between ads and King Arthur may be that ads are not
down converted from HD. It's possible there's an incompatibility
between Seven's encoder, and your decoder.

Unless you're using a PVR to watch live broadcasts on a non-digital
TV, you might find a difference between using the PVR to do so, or
using the PVR to record and then play back, and using the digital TV
or STB to watch the broadcasts.

I have the current model Panasonic DVDR and recorded it


My own experience of digital TV is that it's pretty stable, with
visual glitches rare (less than one per several hours).

I think location is relevant in that regard.


Sylvia.

The best bet seems to be that it's a noise issue. Either someone in your
locality (including you yourself) is generating bursts of noise that the
antenna picks up, or mains noise is getting in - perhaps at the splitter
amplifier.

It would be worth checking that the antenna cable screen is properly
connected everywhere.

If the problem is radiated noise from an electric arc, then you'd
probably hear it on an AM radio - particular one that's not tuned to a
station. You could try watchng live TV while such a radio is on, and see
whether there's a correlation between bad video on the TV and noise on
the radio.

Sylvia.

 

[Coach]

On Jan 2, 11:30 am, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Rheilly Phoull"



I get pissed off with the audio cutting in and out on live sports progs,
what causes that one ??

** That was going on a lot at the recent live Golf in Melbourne and Sydney.

The on-course commentators were using back pack portable radio links to the
OB van -  which I suspect were not terribly reliable at getting through
obstacles like crowds of people or thick vegetation etc.

.....  Phil

"on-course commentators", pray tell? Commentators aren't allowed on
the course. They are allowed to stand only just off the course. I
hope that both helps AND informs.

 

[Superman]

On 2/01/2010 1:22 PM, Phil the Dill wrote:

"Super Stupid man"

"Phil the dill" wrote:

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way
splitter amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)

I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just
hopeless. but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps that
was a major cause.


** ROTFLMAO !!!


I'm glad you're amused. Pity you don't see fit to mention it's cause for
our enlightenment.


** For the benefit of readers living outside VIC.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wild-thunderstorms-lash-victoria/story-e6frf7jo-1225815371184


So your point (if you actually have one) is that thunderstorms do
seriously affect digital transmissions, right?


** Errrrrrrr - yes .....

I had been watching earlier in the evening when the storm was most
severe, and the transmission was fine, but that was on channel 90. And
I'm fairly sure that the storm had all but finished when 'King Arthur'
was on, so how do you explain that? Can we assume that there is some
difference in the signal between nine HD and 7 HD? According to my meter
the signal strengh and quality is the same for both stations- full
scale, 10.

...... Phil

--
rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com

"We stopped the boats coming. The facts speak for themselves. People knew where we stood. We didn't try to be all things to all men. Look, our policy worked. There was no need to alter it" - John Howard

"Our journalists are finally noticing the elephant in the room. Rudd has given us grocery watch, fuel watch, a national dept our children will still be paying, an ETS scheme that will further bankrupt the nation without making an iota of difference to global warming. Rudd is all spin and no substance. Even worse, he expects to fool all people all the time." - media comment

"I don't care what you f__kers think!" - The Hon Kevin Rudd MP, Prime Minister of Australia

 

[Sylvia Else]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 11:45 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:

'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly
pixilating, although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength
is 10! (full scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?


Are you using an outdoor antenna?

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way
splitter amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)

And why do the ads not pixilate? There must be some difference in
the nature of the transmission.

I wonder whether that's really the case. Ads occupy less time then
program material (though, admittedly, only half as much), and you'll
probably not be paying that much attention to them. So if they do
pixalate, you might not notice.

accepted


But, assuming the difference is real...

The word "pixilate" is used somewhat loosely. Overcompression can
create the situation where one becomes aware of the boundaries of the
16x16 pixel macroblocks, particularly during pans.

A burst of noise can destroy the data so that a number of macroblocks
show manifestly wrong content.

I wonder which of these effects you're noticing.

the latter


The difference between ads and King Arthur may be that ads are not
down converted from HD. It's possible there's an incompatibility
between Seven's encoder, and your decoder.

Unless you're using a PVR to watch live broadcasts on a non-digital
TV, you might find a difference between using the PVR to do so, or
using the PVR to record and then play back, and using the digital TV
or STB to watch the broadcasts.

I have the current model Panasonic DVDR and recorded it


My own experience of digital TV is that it's pretty stable, with
visual glitches rare (less than one per several hours).

I think location is relevant in that regard.


Sylvia.



The best bet seems to be that it's a noise issue. Either someone in your
locality (including you yourself) is generating bursts of noise that the
antenna picks up, or mains noise is getting in - perhaps at the splitter
amplifier.

It would be worth checking that the antenna cable screen is properly
connected everywhere.

If the problem is radiated noise from an electric arc, then you'd
probably hear it on an AM radio - particular one that's not tuned to a
station. You could try watchng live TV while such a radio is on, and see
whether there's a correlation between bad video on the TV and noise on
the radio.

Sylvia.

Um, or a thunderstorm.

Sylvia.

 

[David L. Jones]

Superman" <"the _man_of_steel wrote:

On 2/01/2010 12:55 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 11:45 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:

'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly
pixilating, although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength
is 10! (full scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?


Are you using an outdoor antenna?

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way
splitter amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)

And why do the ads not pixilate? There must be some difference in
the nature of the transmission.

I wonder whether that's really the case. Ads occupy less time then
program material (though, admittedly, only half as much), and you'll
probably not be paying that much attention to them. So if they do
pixalate, you might not notice.

accepted


But, assuming the difference is real...

The word "pixilate" is used somewhat loosely. Overcompression can
create the situation where one becomes aware of the boundaries of the
16x16 pixel macroblocks, particularly during pans.

A burst of noise can destroy the data so that a number of macroblocks
show manifestly wrong content.

I wonder which of these effects you're noticing.

the latter

In that case the cause could be anything.
The storm (even if it's passed you), electrical interference from a neighor
using a bit of quipment, or most likely something in your own house (washing
machine or lights for example), or a whole host of other stuff.

I have the current model Panasonic DVDR and recorded it

Were you playing with any gear while you recorded it?
Switching lights off and on is a common cause of interference for example.
My garage roller door for example will completely blot every single digital
channel. And that's after I've tried all sorts of filtering techniques and
got a proper digital only log-periodic antenna.

My own experience of digital TV is that it's pretty stable, with
visual glitches rare (less than one per several hours).

I think location is relevant in that regard.

Yep, but I'm betting in this case it's a bit of gear in your house switching
on and off while you were recording.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[Phil Allison]

"Super Stupid man"

Phil Allison

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way
splitter amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)

I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just
hopeless. but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps
that
was a major cause.


** ROTFLMAO !!!


I'm glad you're amused. Pity you don't see fit to mention it's cause
for
our enlightenment.


** For the benefit of readers living outside VIC.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wild-thunderstorms-lash-victoria/story-e6frf7jo-1225815371184


So your point (if you actually have one) is that thunderstorms do
seriously affect digital transmissions, right?


** Errrrrrrr - yes .....


I had been watching earlier in the evening when the storm was most severe,
and the transmission was fine,

** Blah, blah, blah - more tedious bullshit.

The issue is LIGHTNING !!!

How much, what kind and where all make a difference.

Lightning does NOT have to be visible to YOU to interfere with the pix on
your TV.

With analogue TV you see bursts of noise on the screen - with DTV you get
pixilation or worse.

What planet have you been living on - was it Krypton by any chance ??




...... Phil

 

[atec 7 7]

Superman wrote:

On 2/01/2010 9:05 AM, David L. Jones wrote:

Superman"<"the _man_of_steel wrote:

'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly pixilating,
although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength is 10! (full
scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?

Too much compression. They can vary the compression at their end to
whatever
they want.
The standard def channels like 7 can really suck. Try watching fast
moving
sport action on a standard def channel and you'll see it all the time.


Are you talking about artefacts? yes, it's pathetic. we have these hi
res panels and have to watch stuff that looks like it's come off youtube!

The HD channels are much better and will rarely have this problem. So the
rule is to watch the HD version of the channel (70)unless they are
annoyingly displaying a different show on the HD channel.

I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just
hopeless. but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps that
was a major cause. but I don't know how we are expected to watch
transmission like this.

Even if you don't
have a HD capable TV, it's worth getting a HD box just for this.

It's nothing to do with signal strength, digital TV either works or it
doesn't. If the signal strength is too low to image will freeze, not
pixelate.


I tried attenuating the signal to see if that helped but it didn't. I've
heard that too strong a signal can cause pixilation and image break up.

Dave.




In simple term it might be equated with over-modulation in a radio mike

or similar and the waveform edges get messy hence failure to hold lock well

 

[DaveS]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:55:18 GMT, Superman <"the
_man_of_steel"@metropolis.com> wrote:

On 2/01/2010 11:01 AM, DaveS wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:01:51 GMT, Superman<"the
_man_of_steel"@metropolis.com> wrote:


'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly pixilating,
although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength is 10! (full
scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?

Looked okay on my 1989 TV!


Were you watching thru a STB? HD or SD? and what location?

None of those new fangled things, young fella.....

 

[geoff]

David L. Jones wrote:

In that case the cause could be anything.
The storm (even if it's passed you), electrical interference from a
neighor using a bit of quipment, or most likely something in your own
house (washing machine or lights for example), or a whole host of
other stuff.

Or even heavy rain.

geoff

 

[Superman]

On 2/01/2010 1:45 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Super Stupid man"

That would be you for thinking that just because someone doesn't know a
lot about a particular subject, it means that they're stupid. How much
do you know about Medieval literature for example? Or Palaeoecology? Or
maybe carpentry or plumbing? Does it mean you're stupid if you know SFA
about any of those subjects, or a myriad of others I could mention? I
know far more about electronics matters than the average person, but
unlike you I don't consider that makes others stupid.

 

[Superman]

On 2/01/2010 4:57 PM, DaveS wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:55:18 GMT, Superman<"the
_man_of_steel"@metropolis.com> wrote:


On 2/01/2010 11:01 AM, DaveS wrote:


On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:01:51 GMT, Superman<"the
_man_of_steel"@metropolis.com> wrote:



'King Arthur' on channel 70 is unwatchable! It's constantly pixilating,
although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength is 10! (full
scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?


Looked okay on my 1989 TV!


Were you watching thru a STB? HD or SD? and what location?

None of those new fangled things, young fella.....

Well then you wouldn't have a problem with pixilation since you're
watching an analogue transmission not digital.

--
rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com

"We stopped the boats coming. The facts speak for themselves. People knew where we stood. We didn't try to be all things to all men. Look, our policy worked. There was no need to alter it" - John Howard

"Our journalists are finally noticing the elephant in the room. Rudd has given us grocery watch, fuel watch, a national dept our children will still be paying, an ETS scheme that will further bankrupt the nation without making an iota of difference to global warming. Rudd is all spin and no substance. Even worse, he expects to fool all people all the time." - media comment

"I don't care what you f__kers think!" - The Hon Kevin Rudd MP, Prime Minister of Australia

 

[Superman]

On 2/01/2010 2:23 PM, atec 7 7 wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 9:05 AM, David L. Jones wrote:

Superman"<"the _man_of_steel wrote:
'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly pixilating,
although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength is 10! (full
scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?
Too much compression. They can vary the compression at their end to
whatever
they want.
The standard def channels like 7 can really suck. Try watching fast
moving
sport action on a standard def channel and you'll see it all the time.

Are you talking about artefacts? yes, it's pathetic. we have these hi
res panels and have to watch stuff that looks like it's come off
youtube!

The HD channels are much better and will rarely have this problem.
So the
rule is to watch the HD version of the channel (70)unless they are
annoyingly displaying a different show on the HD channel.

I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just
hopeless. but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps
that was a major cause. but I don't know how we are expected to watch
transmission like this.

Even if you don't
have a HD capable TV, it's worth getting a HD box just for this.

It's nothing to do with signal strength, digital TV either works or it
doesn't. If the signal strength is too low to image will freeze, not
pixelate.

I tried attenuating the signal to see if that helped but it didn't.
I've heard that too strong a signal can cause pixilation and image
break up.

Dave.



In simple terms it might be equated with over-modulation in a radio
mike or similar and the waveform edges get messy hence failure to hold
lock well

Do you think if I reduce the amplifier gain it might help the situation?

--
rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com

"We stopped the boats coming. The facts speak for themselves. People knew where we stood. We didn't try to be all things to all men. Look, our policy worked. There was no need to alter it" - John Howard

"Our journalists are finally noticing the elephant in the room. Rudd has given us grocery watch, fuel watch, a national dept our children will still be paying, an ETS scheme that will further bankrupt the nation without making an iota of difference to global warming. Rudd is all spin and no substance. Even worse, he expects to fool all people all the time." - media comment

"I don't care what you f__kers think!" - The Hon Kevin Rudd MP, Prime Minister of Australia

 

[Sylvia Else]

Superman wrote:

On 2/01/2010 1:45 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Super Stupid man"


That would be you for thinking that just because someone doesn't know a
lot about a particular subject, it means that they're stupid. How much
do you know about Medieval literature for example? Or Palaeoecology? Or
maybe carpentry or plumbing? Does it mean you're stupid if you know SFA
about any of those subjects, or a myriad of others I could mention? I
know far more about electronics matters than the average person, but
unlike you I don't consider that makes others stupid.

Phil considers everyone to be stupid, with the exception of himself. He
is totally unbiased in this respect.

Sylvia.

 

[Dr. Sir John Howard, AC,]

Sylvia Else wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 1:45 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

"Super Stupid man"

That would be you for thinking that just because someone doesn't know
a lot about a particular subject, it means that they're stupid. How
much do you know about Medieval literature for example? Or
Palaeoecology? Or maybe carpentry or plumbing? Does it mean you're
stupid if you know SFA about any of those subjects, or a myriad of
others I could mention? I know far more about electronics matters than
the average person, but unlike you I don't consider that makes others
stupid.

Phil considers everyone to be stupid, with the exception of himself. He
is totally unbiased in this respect.

You might say he's an expert on stupidity.

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor
general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott

 

[DaveS]

On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:33:47 GMT, Superman <"the
_man_of_steel"@metropolis.com> wrote:

Well then you wouldn't have a problem with pixilation since you're
watching an analogue transmission not digital.

You finally worked it out - pick a kewpie doll from the top shelf.....

 

[Phil Allison]

"Super Stupid man"

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way splitter
amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)


I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just hopeless.
but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps that was a major
cause.

** ROTFLMAO !!!




.... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Super Stupid man"

Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way splitter
amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)


I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just hopeless.
but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps that was a major
cause.

** ROTFLMAO !!!





.... Phil

 

[atec 7 7]

Superman wrote:

On 2/01/2010 2:23 PM, atec 7 7 wrote:

Superman wrote:
On 2/01/2010 9:05 AM, David L. Jones wrote:

Superman"<"the _man_of_steel wrote:
'King Arthur' on channel 7 is unwatchable! It's constantly pixilating,
although the DVDR says the signal quality and strength is 10! (full
scale) BUT the ads don't pixilate. Now why is that?
Too much compression. They can vary the compression at their end to
whatever
they want.
The standard def channels like 7 can really suck. Try watching fast
moving
sport action on a standard def channel and you'll see it all the time.

Are you talking about artefacts? yes, it's pathetic. we have these hi
res panels and have to watch stuff that looks like it's come off
youtube!

The HD channels are much better and will rarely have this problem.
So the
rule is to watch the HD version of the channel (70)unless they are
annoyingly displaying a different show on the HD channel.

I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just
hopeless. but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps
that was a major cause. but I don't know how we are expected to watch
transmission like this.

Even if you don't
have a HD capable TV, it's worth getting a HD box just for this.

It's nothing to do with signal strength, digital TV either works or it
doesn't. If the signal strength is too low to image will freeze, not
pixelate.

I tried attenuating the signal to see if that helped but it didn't.
I've heard that too strong a signal can cause pixilation and image
break up.

Dave.



In simple terms it might be equated with over-modulation in a radio
mike or similar and the waveform edges get messy hence failure to hold
lock well

Do you think if I reduce the amplifier gain it might help the situation?

you should really takes measurements although its a simple test and cant

hurt , how much signal does the stp report on the bad channel ?

 

[atec 7 7]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Super Stupid man"


Yes, I have a digital fringe range aerial running into a four way splitter
amplifier. (outer melb metro area location)


I was watching on 70. sorry, I didn't mention that. It was just hopeless.
but there was a storm and lightning last night. perhaps that was a major
cause.


** ROTFLMAO !!!





... Phil



No matter how hard you try to look smarter than you are we are never

fooled you meatpipe gobbling troll

 

[Superman]

On 3/01/2010 4:21 PM, DaveS wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 04:33:47 GMT, Superman<"the
_man_of_steel"@metropolis.com> wrote:


Well then you wouldn't have a problem with pixilation since you're
watching an analogue transmission not digital.

You finally worked it out - pick a kewpie doll from the top shelf.....

smartase prick..