battery question

[felix_unger]

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
election results explained: http://ausnet.info/pics/labor_wins2.jpg
“People sleep peacefully in their beds only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”

 

[news13]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:32:18 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

It is just a bog standard SLA (sealed lead acid) battery; a sort of gel
cell.

Replace with cheapest one of the same size that you can get hold of,
IME, they are cactus after two years just sitting there as the continual
standby charging just dries them out and you can not get water back into
them.

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.

 

[atec77]

On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

 

[felix_unger]

On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:

On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do

so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
election results explained: http://ausnet.info/pics/labor_wins2.jpg
“People sleep peacefully in their beds only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:

On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do


so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.

 

[Bob Milutinovic]

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:MK6dnXema-h4U1HOnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:
On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do


so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.

Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!

--
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom

 

[Chris]

On Monday, 21 July 2014 18:27:18 UTC+10, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:

On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:

On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:



the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed

to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since

it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't

remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA

NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could

replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they

don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary

thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!



same rating and voltage will do





so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some

kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the net

and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design

of this kind of battery.



It's a venting system.

Kind of like these news groups ;-)

Chris.

 

[news13]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 00:33:53 +1000, Damian wrote:

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.

It's just silly hype.
AGMs.

And the hype around AGM is incredible.

 

[Damian]

"Bob Milutinovic" <cognicom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqiuaq$j1k$1@cognicom.eternal-september.org...

"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:MK6dnXema-h4U1HOnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:
On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do


so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.

Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!

)

 

[Damian]

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lqipvt$fdv$6@dont-email.me...

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:32:18 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!


It is just a bog standard SLA (sealed lead acid) battery; a sort of gel
cell.

Replace with cheapest one of the same size that you can get hold of,
IME, they are cactus after two years just sitting there as the continual
standby charging just dries them out and you can not get water back into
them.

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.

It's just silly hype. Those sealed little lead acids comes with UPS's are
crap. Good ones are expensice AGMs. I replaced mine with a secondhand car
battery that was given to me by my auto electrician for nothing.
It's doing far far better than the orginal crap sealed lead acid battery and
holding upto an hour(instead of just under ten mintues like the built in
sealed battery) when( or if) there's blackout.
Only downside is that with the heavy car battery outside the UPS, you can't
move the UPS as a simple 'lightweight' unit as before. Doesn't bother me
though. Nearly two years, the old car battery is still going good.
It's hasn't got anywhere enough CCA to handle a cranking of a car motor, but
plenty of grunt to handle a PC and even a couple of peripherals.
My home security system(which is connected to the PC as well) depend on this
battery in case of a blackout.
If you really wanna good and long lasting reliable stuff, then you need to
spend around $300+ and get a good AGM battery. They claim to last for upto
ten years with good maintenance.
I got one of them for the van, but I bought a used one, which happens to be
in good nick. I checked is with and induction tester(they are expensive) at
Autobarn(I know the manager). CCAs and Amp hours are still pretty good.
You have to be lucky though. Some of the ebay second hand AGMs aren't that
good. It's better to buy a $300 new AGM than a used crap $100 AGM, unless
you have access to an induction tester to test it before you buy.

 

[felix_unger]

On 27-July-2014 12:10 AM, Damian wrote:

"Bob Milutinovic" <cognicom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqiuaq$j1k$1@cognicom.eternal-september.org...
"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:MK6dnXema-h4U1HOnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:
On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:
the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do

so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)

It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
election results explained: http://ausnet.info/pics/labor_wins2.jpg
“People sleep peacefully in their beds only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”

 

[felix_unger]

On 21-July-2014 8:28 PM, news13 wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:32:18 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

It is just a bog standard SLA (sealed lead acid) battery; a sort of gel
cell.

K

Replace with cheapest one of the same size that you can get hold of,
IME, they are cactus after two years just sitting there as the continual
standby charging just dries them out and you can not get water back into
them.

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.

I got the YUASA one. the technology seemed better, and they claim a five
year lifespan. the one that died was at least that old.

http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/03296112/np7.2-12-12v-7.2amp-yuasa-sla-battery-f1-terminal-np-series#.U9Ra0rGc7rE


--
rgds,

Pete
-------
election results explained: http://ausnet.info/pics/labor_wins2.jpg
“People sleep peacefully in their beds only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”

 

[felix_unger]

On 27-July-2014 12:33 AM, Damian wrote:

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lqipvt$fdv$6@dont-email.me...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:32:18 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

It is just a bog standard SLA (sealed lead acid) battery; a sort of gel
cell.

Replace with cheapest one of the same size that you can get hold of,
IME, they are cactus after two years just sitting there as the continual
standby charging just dries them out and you can not get water back into
them.

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.
It's just silly hype. Those sealed little lead acids comes with UPS's are
crap. Good ones are expensice AGMs. I replaced mine with a secondhand car
battery that was given to me by my auto electrician for nothing.
It's doing far far better than the orginal crap sealed lead acid battery and
holding upto an hour(instead of just under ten mintues like the built in
sealed battery) when( or if) there's blackout.

my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power for
long

Only downside is that with the heavy car battery outside the UPS, you can't
move the UPS as a simple 'lightweight' unit as before. Doesn't bother me
though. Nearly two years, the old car battery is still going good.
It's hasn't got anywhere enough CCA to handle a cranking of a car motor, but
plenty of grunt to handle a PC and even a couple of peripherals.
My home security system(which is connected to the PC as well) depend on this
battery in case of a blackout.
If you really wanna good and long lasting reliable stuff, then you need to
spend around $300+ and get a good AGM battery. They claim to last for upto
ten years with good maintenance.
I got one of them for the van, but I bought a used one, which happens to be
in good nick. I checked is with and induction tester(they are expensive) at
Autobarn(I know the manager). CCAs and Amp hours are still pretty good.
You have to be lucky though. Some of the ebay second hand AGMs aren't that
good. It's better to buy a $300 new AGM than a used crap $100 AGM, unless
you have access to an induction tester to test it before you buy.

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
election results explained: http://ausnet.info/pics/labor_wins2.jpg
“People sleep peacefully in their beds only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”

 

[Damian]

"felix_unger" <me@nothere.biz> wrote in message
news:c3j3uvF2q3sU1@mid.individual.net...

On 27-July-2014 12:10 AM, Damian wrote:
"Bob Milutinovic" <cognicom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqiuaq$j1k$1@cognicom.eternal-september.org...
"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message
news:MK6dnXema-h4U1HOnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 21/07/14 16:19, felix_unger wrote:
On 21-July-2014 6:12 PM, atec77 wrote:
On 21/07/2014 4:32 PM, felix_unger wrote:
the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement,
since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I
could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

same rating and voltage will do

so are all these kinds of batteries 'valve regulated', or is that some
kind of extra safety feature with only some of them? I looked on the
net
and it seems that 'valve regulated' might just mean the type of design
of this kind of battery.

It's a venting system.
Ssshhhh! Don't throw logic at Felix; you'll confuse him!
)



It could have been some sort of electronic mechanism.

In Sealed(and non sealed) lead acid batteries, it's a mechanical valve.

 

[news13]

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:47:19 +1000, Damian wrote:

my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power
for long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on the
PC,
right?

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.
Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

If you want it to signal the PC to go into hibernation, then look for one
that will give a hibernation signal, followed by a shutdown if the UPS
battery drops significantly.

The small UPS are not designed as medium or long term power devices,
despite the expectations of a lot of people who effectively misuse/
mispurpose them.

 

[Damian]

"felix_unger" <me@nothere.biz> wrote in message
news:c3j4dfF2u9hU1@mid.individual.net...

On 21-July-2014 8:28 PM, news13 wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:32:18 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc., failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

It is just a bog standard SLA (sealed lead acid) battery; a sort of gel
cell.

K


Replace with cheapest one of the same size that you can get hold of,
IME, they are cactus after two years just sitting there as the continual
standby charging just dries them out and you can not get water back into
them.

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.


I got the YUASA one. the technology seemed better, and they claim a five
year lifespan. the one that died was at least that old.

http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/03296112/np7.2-12-12v-7.2amp-yuasa-sla-battery-f1-terminal-np-series#.U9Ra0rGc7rE


--
rgds,

Pete
-------
election results explained: http://ausnet.info/pics/labor_wins2.jpg
"People sleep peacefully in their beds only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"

Yuasa is ok, if they come from Japan, as they claim to be.

 

[Damian]

"felix_unger" <me@nothere.biz> wrote in message
news:c3j4jmF2vgeU1@mid.individual.net...

On 27-July-2014 12:33 AM, Damian wrote:
"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lqipvt$fdv$6@dont-email.me...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:32:18 +1000, felix_unger wrote:

the power went off recently, and the UPS protecting the PC, etc.,
failed
to kick in, so I'm guessing that the battery needs replacement, since
it's at least 5 years old- maybe even up to ten years old. (can't
remember when I got it). the battery that's in there now is a YUASA
NP7-12, and it has written on it that's it 'valve regulated'. I could
replace it with the same battery, but generic ones are cheaper, but
they
don't say 'valve regulated', so I'm wondering if that's a necessary
thing or not? what would ppl recommend? ta!

It is just a bog standard SLA (sealed lead acid) battery; a sort of gel
cell.

Replace with cheapest one of the same size that you can get hold of,
IME, they are cactus after two years just sitting there as the continual
standby charging just dries them out and you can not get water back into
them.

They are also pretty much cactus after their first use as the discharge
rate is usually way beyond C/20, which is what it should be for maximum
life cycles.
It's just silly hype. Those sealed little lead acids comes with UPS's are
crap. Good ones are expensice AGMs. I replaced mine with a secondhand
car
battery that was given to me by my auto electrician for nothing.
It's doing far far better than the orginal crap sealed lead acid battery
and
holding upto an hour(instead of just under ten mintues like the built in
sealed battery) when( or if) there's blackout.

my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power for
long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on the PC,
right?

 

[Damian]

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:lt3hbh$au3$1@dont-email.me...

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:47:19 +1000, Damian wrote:


my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power
for long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on the
PC,
right?

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.
Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings.

On windows, hibernation shouldn't draw any power. The snapshot is saved to
the hard drive and loaded back when you restart.
You may be referrring to sleep mode, which consumes power in minimum mode.

A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Pretty much all the UPS devices these days come with the software to
initiate safe shutdown or hibernation(or sleep).
Even they don't, there're always third party free and commercial software.

If you want it to signal the PC to go into hibernation, then look for one
that will give a hibernation signal, followed by a shutdown if the UPS
battery drops significantly.

Yes, but hibernation shouldn't draw any power in windows.
Kinda contradicts the common sense meaning of hibernation for sure, but
that's how Bill Gates saw it.

The small UPS are not designed as medium or long term power devices,
despite the expectations of a lot of people who effectively misuse/
mispurpose them.

I use a small el cheapo one quite effectively for hours when necessary with
a more powerfull battery.
It seems to be working ok. Can't say every small one can do it though.

 

[news13]

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 23:20:34 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful &
safe shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup
generator kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

hint, how does the system recover from hibernation?

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-08-21, news13 <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 10:47:19 +1000, Damian wrote:


my UPS will shut down the PC, so it doesn't need to supply the power
for long

It must be triggering the hybernation via UPS software installed on the
PC,
right?

SHUTDOWN and not hibernation.
Shutdown is no power draw.

That is not actually true

Hibernation is still a power draw and sometimes not that much of a
savings. A UPS is usually(commercially) a device to allow graceful & safe
shutdown or a transistion device to bridge until the backup generator
kicks in.

Hibernation (also known as "suspend to disk") is the same power draw as
shutdown.

If you want it to signal the PC to go into hibernation, then look for one
that will give a hibernation signal, followed by a shutdown if the UPS
battery drops significantly.

that's pointless and unneccessary.


--
umop apisdn


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