Arrow Keys Going Away

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 09:25:18 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:38:42 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:0r4soedg5qif07hi263s7hvbdkatqi25ku@4ax.com:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 05:19:22 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:1ldqoe5i4q1br2o23m1aqqhdtdp8lk7vmj@4ax.com:

I do disable Caps Lock. Why does anyone want Caps Lock?



A data entry session where all caps are needed in the fields.

I've never encountered anything like that.

There are plenty of situations. A company where their serial
number system uses caps with a person that must enter them in all
day.

You are not a data centric person.

I've written a million lines of code or so. But most of the stuff I
code is case insensitive.

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

It was just like some early 5 bit Baudot teleprinters with numeric
shift and alpha shift keys and numeric keys labeled on alphabetic
keys.
 
In article <v2t2pe9q8d3f6bmer1dovvki7hcss649rc@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...
On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I did my apprenticeship in the early 1960s with a British manufacturer
of punched card kit, but I don't remember any of the device numbers! I
guess there must have been punches and verifiers, but the sorters,
collaters and tabulators were more interesting...

Mike.
 
On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).
 
On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

Please re-read what I scribbled. I said
"The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:"
The link I provided included the keyboard layout, which has no caps
lock key.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

If you had a printing device capable of producing lower case and/or
international characters, you could use Runoff or similar programs,
which accepted input in all uppercase from punched cards or Teletype.
 
On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 5:32:43 PM UTC-4, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote in
news:16e8b444-0a1c-4f52-bfe1-7cceede92e8b wrote:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 1:15:36 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 02:23:31 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 10:43:24 PM UTC-4, Jeff
Liebermann wrote:

Weird layout is what provides "product differentiation" or
minor changes that distinguish one product from the rest of
the herd. If the keyboard manufacturer can get a user
addicted to that particular form factor, they have a customer
for life. I'm afraid I'm one of those type of customers. I'm
addicted to Dell SK-8135 keyboards, I'll probably continue
using them until the supply of used keyboards evaporates and
I'm forced tolerate something different.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dell+SK-8135&tbm=isch
https://steemit.com/diy/@ammonite/fixing-a-dell-sk-8135-keyboa
rd

I think that I still have some of those. I have about 150 used
keyboards

that will be donated to a local Veteran's group. They are all
boxed and

in storage right now, but I need to get rid of them.

Cleaning 150 keyboards is not my idea of fun. I've done a bit of
experimenting over the years to see what works best. So far, the
winner is:

1. Blow compressed air (from an air compressor, not a can)
through a narrow nozzle that fits UNDER the keys. Blow
horizontally, and all the crumbs, crud, filth, hair, staples,
etc, will low out the other end. Move the nozzle around the
outer edge of the keyboard to attack the crud from all angles.
You might need to use a pair of tweezers to extract large dust
balls and hair. You also might need to temporarily remove a few
key caps in order to give the air and crud an exit path.

1. After blowing out the crud, spray some kind of general
purpose cleaner (e.g. 409) over the key caps and sides. Use a
soft rag (not a paper towel) to wipe clean.

I hope this helps.

That is similar to my method:

I have cleaned hundreds of PC and other types of keyboards in the
past 35+ years. I blow out the dust and crumbs, then I stand then
up on one end in a laundry sink. I spray a fine mist of household
ammonia on them, and wait a few minutes. I follow that with a fine
mist of distilled water, to rinse off the dissolved crud. I leave
them standing on end to dry overnight. I usually clean five to ten
at a time so that I have clean spares when I need one. PC
keyboards are a lot easier to clean than the early Commodore
keyboards with the taller key caps. Some of those were so grubby
that I had to remove the key caps, and the circuit board to soak
the plastic frame. I would put a couple Alka Seltzer tablets in
the bottom of a cut off two liter soda bottle and fill it about
2/3 full of the dirty parts, the add warm water to let the bubbles
remove the crud. A soft nylon brush and running water got off
anything that was left behind.


I have disassembled entire keyboards from the keycaps down to the
rubber table pads on the base, and washed each individual keycap in
the sink with Dawn while thinking of happy oil free duckling videos.
I clean the outer framework and base as well. No need for drip dry
when you re-assemble it with dry parts and never 'spray' it. And
with the keycaps pulled, one can clear all dust as well.

I bought an old early '70s Harmon Kardon receiver at a yard sale
for $15 one year that worked flawlessly except for the station
display cursor on the tuning dial (I know pretty major flaw). I used
it as my Front channel amp on my home video system. Anyway, I took
it home from the garage sale and took the front panel off to see how
bad the tuning dial problem was, and I washed each Aluminum piece
with dishsoapy water and a toothbrush and re-assembled it to look
like it was new, and it was full of cigarette nicotine when I
started. I was fairly pleased that it turned out so well.

Try that on hundreds of keyboards VS less than two minutes each with my method.

It also works on nasty PC boards.

I bought a Harmon Kardon 330B new in 1973 while stationed in Alaska. I ordered the walnut outer case option from H-K. I was pleasantly surprised that they shipped it for free to any Military postal address. It was stolen, along with my other stereo equipment, a few years later.

I bought a used 330C at a thrift store a few years ago. The build quality was poor, when compared to the B model.
 
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the
towel. The Acer Aspire 7 17.3" Gaming Laptop has miniature arrow
movement keys and the numeric keypad has narrow width keys. It's
a 17 inch laptop! They have all the room in the world, more than
an inch on every side of the keyboard.

How many games do you play on your computah?

Lots. The keyword being COMPUTER.

If none, why are you complaining about a keyboard layout made for
gamers? The only keys of interest to a gamer are the keys used by
the various games. Those are easy to find. They're the broken
keys on the gamers keyboard. Arrow keys are used only by games
who can't afford a gaming mouse, joystick, etc, or don't know that
the arrow keys are duplicated on the number pad

Utter nonsense. Anybody who knows anything about gaming knows, the more
keys the better. If you know how to use the Internet, you can also look
up pictures of gaming keyboards... But using the Internet is a challenge
when it contradicts his "expertise" on stuff he knows nothing about.
I've never heard any gamer suggest fewer keys is better, that's just
nonsense.

Maybe the poster is talking about console gaming? But then it wouldn't
be spewing nonsense about PC keyboards and gaming.
 
I wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the
towel. The Acer Aspire 7 17.3" Gaming Laptop has miniature arrow
movement keys and the numeric keypad has narrow width keys. It's
a 17 inch laptop! They have all the room in the world, more than
an inch on every side of the keyboard.

It's called "bad design".

What ever happened to "form follows function"???

Buy a different laptop.

Keyboards still have all the same keys as they have ever had,
including arrow keys and keypad keys, plus an F11 and F12 key,
plus the more recent addition of a Windows key and multimedia
keys.

PLUS the power key. Mine is removed and taped since it's right next
to the volume+ key. I don't use manual power management, except for
turning off the monitor. My reasonably fast PC box uses about 45 W
when piddling around, measured before the power supply (so includes
power supply inefficiency). Surprising how many people (like gamers)
think they need a huge power supply because they have no clue how
much power there PC actually uses.
 
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the
towel. The Acer Aspire 7 17.3" Gaming Laptop has miniature arrow
movement keys and the numeric keypad has narrow width keys. It's
a 17 inch laptop! They have all the room in the world, more than
an inch on every side of the keyboard.

It's called "bad design".

> What ever happened to "form follows function"???

Buy a different laptop.

Keyboards still have all the same keys as they have ever had, including
arrow keys and keypad keys, plus an F11 and F12 key, plus the more
recent addition of a Windows key and multimedia keys.
 
On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.
If you had a printing device capable of producing lower case and/or
international characters, you could use Runoff or similar programs,
which accepted input in all uppercase from punched cards or Teletype.

But what a PITA to punch weird combinations.
 
On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:00:07 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.

Not at least those 029s that I have used.

Numerics were 1-of-10 (only one punch in 10 zones) Letters had also an
additional punch in 11 or 12 zone. Some special characters might have
a third punch in the same columns.

EBCDIC doesn't use 1-of-10 coding for numeric but instead codes them
into a 4 bit BCD numbers. Then there are an other 4 bit code (not just
11 and 12 punch), which selects one of the sixteen BCD groups, some of
them decoding upper case, lower case, control characters. Since the
low group is BCD (not pure 4 bit binary) there are gaps in for
instance in upper case alphabet, when the end of the alphabet is in
the next BCD groups.

If you had a printing device capable of producing lower case and/or
international characters, you could use Runoff or similar programs,
which accepted input in all uppercase from punched cards or Teletype.

But what a PITA to punch weird combinations.

The purpose of the Runoff or similar program will solve this issue, It
uses only available characters for decoding unprintable or unavailable
characters. For instance in a single case input adding a single
special character in front of the next character will turn it to
uppercase and the characters after that as lowercase, while two
special character in front of a line will turn the whole rest of line
to uppercase.

Inserting non-printable characters used a system similar to current
systems adding Unicode characters using printable hexadecimal in HTML
tags.
 
On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:09:30 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:00:07 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html
The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.

Not at least those 029s that I have used.

You weren't using 029s, then.
Numerics were 1-of-10 (only one punch in 10 zones) Letters had also an
additional punch in 11 or 12 zone. Some special characters might have
a third punch in the same columns.

12-rows. IBM was all EBCDIC at the time.
EBCDIC doesn't use 1-of-10 coding for numeric but instead codes them
into a 4 bit BCD numbers. Then there are an other 4 bit code (not just
11 and 12 punch), which selects one of the sixteen BCD groups, some of
them decoding upper case, lower case, control characters. Since the
low group is BCD (not pure 4 bit binary) there are gaps in for
instance in upper case alphabet, when the end of the alphabet is in
the next BCD groups.

If you had a printing device capable of producing lower case and/or
international characters, you could use Runoff or similar programs,
which accepted input in all uppercase from punched cards or Teletype.

But what a PITA to punch weird combinations.

The purpose of the Runoff or similar program will solve this issue, It
uses only available characters for decoding unprintable or unavailable
characters. For instance in a single case input adding a single
special character in front of the next character will turn it to
uppercase and the characters after that as lowercase, while two
special character in front of a line will turn the whole rest of line
to uppercase.

Inserting non-printable characters used a system similar to current
systems adding Unicode characters using printable hexadecimal in HTML
tags.
 
On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 22:31:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:09:30 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:00:07 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html

The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.

Not at least those 029s that I have used.

You weren't using 029s, then.

Then the pictures shown in the link above doesn't either show a 029.

Numerics were 1-of-10 (only one punch in 10 zones) Letters had also an
additional punch in 11 or 12 zone. Some special characters might have
a third punch in the same columns.

12-rows. IBM was all EBCDIC at the time.

EBCDIC was a quite recent concept and came with IBM S/360 in the
1960's. Punched cards had been used for more than a half century
before that.
 
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 08:26:56 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 22:31:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:09:30 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:00:07 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html

The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.

Not at least those 029s that I have used.

You weren't using 029s, then.

Then the pictures shown in the link above doesn't either show a 029.


Numerics were 1-of-10 (only one punch in 10 zones) Letters had also an
additional punch in 11 or 12 zone. Some special characters might have
a third punch in the same columns.

12-rows. IBM was all EBCDIC at the time.

EBCDIC was a quite recent concept and came with IBM S/360 in the
1960's. Punched cards had been used for more than a half century
before that.

When do you think the 029 was used?
 
On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 6:21:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the towel. The Acer Aspire 7 17.3" Gaming Laptop has miniature arrow movement keys and the numeric keypad has narrow width keys. It's a 17 inch laptop! They have all the room in the world, more than an inch on every side of the keyboard..

Partly this seems to be aesthetics. They seem to be obsessed with maintaining a straight border all around the keyboard. The tilde key, on the other end from the keypad is also a narrow key, most likely because to make it full size would create a tiny bulge, maybe an eighth of an inch. No, that's too unsightly. Or they could make all the other keys on that edge an eighth of an inch wider. No, once again the keys have to be as symmetric as humanly possible.

What ever happened to "form follows function"???

--

Rick C.

- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 22:30:35 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 08:26:56 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 22:31:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:09:30 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:00:07 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html

The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.

Not at least those 029s that I have used.

You weren't using 029s, then.

Then the pictures shown in the link above doesn't either show a 029.


Numerics were 1-of-10 (only one punch in 10 zones) Letters had also an
additional punch in 11 or 12 zone. Some special characters might have
a third punch in the same columns.

12-rows. IBM was all EBCDIC at the time.

EBCDIC was a quite recent concept and came with IBM S/360 in the
1960's. Punched cards had been used for more than a half century
before that.

When do you think the 029 was used?

While IBM was a very big player in the 1950's to 1970's (Snow White
and the Seven Dwarfs) but it did not dominate the world neither did
the EBCDIC for S/360 only. Even all other IBM families did not use
EBCDIC. .

In those days we used UNIVACs (6 bit FIELDDATA) and Honeywell and DEC
computers (7 bit ASCII). Why would we have ordered much more expensive
card punches for EBCDIC when much older punches used codes also used
for decades in fully mechanical card sorting, which were in use long
before electronic computers.
 
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 6:13:17 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:58:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the towel. The
Acer Aspire 7 17.3" Gaming Laptop has miniature arrow movement keys and
the numeric keypad has narrow width keys. It's a 17 inch laptop!
They have all the room in the world, more than an inch on every side of
the keyboard.

How many games do you play on your computah? If none, why are you
complaining about a keyboard layout made for gamers? The only keys of
interest to a gamer are the keys used by the various games. Those are
easy to find. They're the broken keys on the gamers keyboard. Arrow
keys are used only by games who can't afford a gaming mouse, joystick,
etc, or don't know that the arrow keys are duplicated on the number
pad and as the ESDX or WASD keys, also known as the "cursor diamond".
The really important keys are the alt keys, ctrl keys, shift keys,
tab, space bar, enter, escape, and backspace. You could remove most
of the other keys off a gamers keyboard, and nobody would notice
(unless they have to type a password).

Partly this seems to be aesthetics. They seem to be obsessed with
maintaining a straight border all around the keyboard. The tilde key,
on the other end from the keypad is also a narrow key, most likely
because to make it full size would create a tiny bulge, maybe an eighth
of an inch. No, that's too unsightly. Or they could make all the other
keys on that edge an eighth of an inch wider. No, once again the keys
have to be as symmetric as humanly possible.

Well, you got that one right, but failed to understand why aesthetics
are important. It's the advent of RGB color shifting keyboards that
are driving the aesthetics. A ragged edge on an illuminated RGB
keyboard looks awful. Since RGB illumination on boxes, fans,
plumbing, keyboards, and mice are the driving force in sales to
gamers, and that the Acer Aspire 7 17.3" Gaming Laptop is for gamers,
whatever they want, they get, even if it means that you can't type on
the keyboard. Look at the available external keyboards and notice
that most have straight edges and a few narrow keys:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=rgb+keyboard

The other part of the puzzle are mechanical versus dome type keyboard
switches. Gamers prefer mechanical keyboards mostly because they are
able to mash the keys in order to gain a few nanoseconds of response
time over other players. Rather than build a new keyboard just for
the laptop, the manufactures just transplanted the guts from an
external keyboard into the gaming laptop. Of course the transplanted
switch layout didn't quite fit in the laptop case, so a few changes
were necessary. Since there wasn't any vertical headroom available
for a real mechanical switches, Acer used slim and thin dome switches
and low profile keycaps.

What ever happened to "form follows function"???

Obsolete and replace by "Form follows Fashion".

I needed a new kb so ordered one that looked nice, from Amazon. It was
a "gamer" keyboard with varying color LED backlights, weird layout,
and really klunky action. I threw it away.

I do now have some nice backlit keyboards by Logitech.

I do disable Caps Lock. Why does anyone want Caps Lock?

I disable caps lock by pulling off the key. I can still turn it on by poking inside with a pen, but I don't hit it by mistake anymore. Better keyboards have the right edge of the caps lock key recessed so you don't hit it by mistake when you really wanted the "A" key.
 
On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 9:37:39 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 02:31:58 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 6:21:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the towel. ....

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about the vanishing cursor keys on your computer.

Ever hear of "Alexa"? (Amazon Echo)
The whole damn keyboard is disappearing!

Bezos surely wants that. He'd love to listen in to everyone,
everywhere.

I do have to say, though, it's one of the FEW refinements that the millennial crowd has helped pushed to widespread adoption. That, and maybe eliminating cords from MP3 players.

Nope. Never going to happen in this house. My son gave us a smart
speaker a couple of Christmases back. It's still in the box, in the
basement.

Then there is the issue of working/surfing with others around. Dumb
idea made dumber.

I was listening to an NPR show about "typing" on phones vs. voice recognition. "THEY" found that voice recognition is way more accurate than typing, and faster, too, according to some standardized test for typists. I have been trying to get into the habit of talking instead of typing when sending texts from my android phone. It is remarkable how well it does...even if they're recording everything I say - but why wouldn't they just record everything I type?
 
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 14:37:09 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
<rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 9:37:39 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 02:31:58 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 6:21:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
It seems the last bastion of real keyboards is throwing in the towel. ....

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about the vanishing cursor keys on your computer.

Ever hear of "Alexa"? (Amazon Echo)
The whole damn keyboard is disappearing!

Bezos surely wants that. He'd love to listen in to everyone,
everywhere.

I do have to say, though, it's one of the FEW refinements that the millennial crowd has helped pushed to widespread adoption. That, and maybe eliminating cords from MP3 players.

Nope. Never going to happen in this house. My son gave us a smart
speaker a couple of Christmases back. It's still in the box, in the
basement.

Then there is the issue of working/surfing with others around. Dumb
idea made dumber.

I was listening to an NPR show about "typing" on phones vs. voice recognition. "THEY" found that voice recognition is way more accurate than typing, and faster, too, according to some standardized test for typists. I have been trying to get into the habit of talking instead of typing when sending texts from my android phone. It is remarkable how well it does...even if they're recording everything I say - but why wouldn't they just record everything I type?

Do you type your sex with your wife or girlfriend (both?) in the
"privacy" of your bedroom? Do you type every conversation you have
into your smart phone?
 
On Fri, 04 Oct 2019 08:49:57 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 22:30:35 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 08:26:56 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 22:31:09 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:09:30 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 23:00:07 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:12:35 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:07:43 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:29:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:42:48 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

Ever use an 029 keypunch? Their caps lock keys are broken too. ;-)

The Model 029 didn't have a caps lock key:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html

The 029 was quite modern compared to the Model 026 that I used in
early college:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/026.html

I don't see a caps lock key (or any lower case, for that matter).

What is the point of using lower case, if you are using a 6 bit (or 18
or 36 bit) computer, in which there are only 64 character positions
available. The A-Z and 0-9 takes most of these positions, no need for
lower case latter or non-English characters.

029s were 12-row (bit) and used EBCDIC.

Not at least those 029s that I have used.

You weren't using 029s, then.

Then the pictures shown in the link above doesn't either show a 029.


Numerics were 1-of-10 (only one punch in 10 zones) Letters had also an
additional punch in 11 or 12 zone. Some special characters might have
a third punch in the same columns.

12-rows. IBM was all EBCDIC at the time.

EBCDIC was a quite recent concept and came with IBM S/360 in the
1960's. Punched cards had been used for more than a half century
before that.

When do you think the 029 was used?

While IBM was a very big player in the 1950's to 1970's (Snow White
and the Seven Dwarfs) but it did not dominate the world neither did
the EBCDIC for S/360 only. Even all other IBM families did not use
EBCDIC. .

The 029 was concurrent with the S/360. There were keypunches before
the 029 of course.

In those days we used UNIVACs (6 bit FIELDDATA) and Honeywell and DEC
computers (7 bit ASCII). Why would we have ordered much more expensive
card punches for EBCDIC when much older punches used codes also used
for decades in fully mechanical card sorting, which were in use long
before electronic computers.

But not the 029.

I started using the 029 and S/360 mod75 (scientific model) in '68, in
high school.
 

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