Anyone help me with component ID for X5DIJ-SX039C laptop (k5

On 01/26/2014 01:10 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Jerry Peters"

An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


** Trying to define a word or term *out of context* is doomed to failure.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, it's a rhetorical technique Phil.
Click to expand...
No reason to curse. I will concede because I'm tired of arguing. Y'all
are being too abstruse for me to keep up. One final offering from the
old Rane Pro Audio Reference.
....
active component Electronics. A component requiring power to operate,
e.g. a transistor. Contrast with passive.

passive component Electronics. A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active.

....

nothing is resolved, other than I am stupid and you know all.
 
"dave" wrote in message
news:EpWdnYhstYKnEHjPnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

active component: A component requiring power to operate,
e.g. a transistor. Contrast with passive.

passive component: A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active.

That isn't the way I learned. As someone else said, an active device provides
amplification of some sort.

The question of /control/ is another matter.
 
In article <lc457s$5t2$1@dont-email.me>, grizzledgeezer@comcast.net
says...
"dave" wrote in message
news:EpWdnYhstYKnEHjPnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

active component: A component requiring power to operate,
e.g. a transistor. Contrast with passive.

passive component: A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active.

That isn't the way I learned. As someone else said, an active device provides
amplification of some sort.

The question of /control/ is another matter.
Click to expand...

It's a very simple concept...

Any device that operates as intended with out power or
biasing is passive.



jamie
 
In article <67e67102-a88c-403d-b8e4-971d2ad1868a@googlegroups.com>,
jurb6006@gmail.com says...
"passive component Electronics. A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active. "

Umm, if a resistor is operating witthout power, just what is it doing ?

Hey, I am not being a pain, it's the subject.
Click to expand...

Do you need power or assistance to pass gas?

Jamie
 
<jurb6006@gmail.com>


** Get cancer and die you criminal fucking nut case.
 
"Jerry Peters"
Phil Allison

"Jerry Peters"

An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


** Trying to define a word or term *out of context* is doomed to failure.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, it's a rhetorical technique Phil.
Click to expand...

** I figured you were being facetious.

But YOU failed to see the discussion is only about "electronic devices" .

Which relays are not.


..... Phil
 
jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
"passive component Electronics. A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active. "

Umm, if a resistor is operating witthout power, just what is it doing ?
Click to expand...

Nothing? I picked up on that one too, if it's not disipating some
power than there's no current flow through it.
 
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Jerry Peters"
Phil Allison

"Jerry Peters"

An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


** Trying to define a word or term *out of context* is doomed to failure.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, it's a rhetorical technique Phil.


** I figured you were being facetious.
Click to expand...

I was actually trying to get dave to *think*, but he doesn't seem to
be capable of it. It's much like the definition of a word, there can
be multiple, sometimes even contradictory meanings, and also
implications or overtones to a particular word choice.

But YOU failed to see the discussion is only about "electronic devices" .

Which relays are not.
Click to expand...

If he gets to define what an active or passive device is *I* can
define what an "electronic" device is.

WHat about a magnetic amplifier?
 
?"But YOU failed to see the discussion is only about "electronic devices" .

Which relays are not. "

Why, because they have no silicon or PN junction ? then you rule out tubes/valvs. If the exception is made because of a filament and thermionic emission, then what about gas fired tubes/valves like a 0Z4 or whatever ?

Sometimes the process of elimination is useful. What is NOT an activ device ?

Capacitor
Resistor
Inductor
Switch

That would mean then that a relay is not an active electronic device because the two main compnents are not active.

However, in a transistor....

If a diode is not active, why ? You can modulate with it. You can switch with it. This can be done with solid state diodes or otherwise.

So does the addition of the second junction in a bipolar transistor make it active ? does the addition of a grid in a tube/valve make it active ?

All of this, no matter how useless an argument (nobody has any work to do ?), is coming down to the point where a diode is an active device.
 
On 2014-01-28, jurb6006@gmail.com <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:
> If a diode is not active, why ? You can modulate with it. You can switch with it. This can be done with solid state diodes or otherwise.

A diode is not active by itself, because it's a two-port circuit. There is no
way for it to have an input which controls an output.

So does the addition of the second junction in a bipolar transistor make it
active ? does the addition of a grid in a tube/valve make it active ?
Click to expand...

No; you also need a circuit to make it active. The minimum active circuit
you can make with a three-port device is a three-port current source.
Two terminals of the device are placed into a power circuit, and the third
terminal controls the flow of current.

Using a three-port transistor or tube triode device, plus some additional
components, like at least one resistor, we can make a four-port active circuit
based on voltages: something that takes an input voltage on one port, produces
an output on another port, and has a third port where power is supplied, so
that the input isn't driving the output.

The rule of thumb is: if inputs can control the flow of energy from the
outputs, without supplying most of that energy, then the situation is active.

If the output energy is derived from the inputs, then it is passive.

To apply this ide, we have to identify what is an energy source, what are
inputs, and what is the output (and in what form).

Example of an active device: power steering in a car. The input is you, turning
the wheel, which requires little force because of an energy source within the
power steering which actually turns the wheels.

Unpowered steering is passive: all of the energy to move the wheels comes from
you, turning the wheel.

(The rack and pinion gives you a mechanical advantage. We have such a passive
transmission in electricity also, namely the transformer. Though the
transformer adapts impedance and changes voltages and currents, all of the
output power comes from the input, so it is passive.)
 
"A diode is not active by itself, because it's a two-port circuit. There is no
way for it to have an input which controls an output. "
Click to expand...

So your contention then is that tunnel diodes, Gunn diodes and Zener diodes are not active devices.

If that is so, then a magnetron is also passive. It is technically a diode with an indirectly heated cathode unless you consider the magnet an element.. Also, what of the case of a Hall effct device ? Nothing electronic controls it, only a magnetic field. Other devices can have more than two terminals aqnd be passive, so where does the Hall effect fit in there ?
 
On 2014-01-29, jurb6006@gmail.com <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:
"A diode is not active by itself, because it's a two-port circuit. There is no
way for it to have an input which controls an output. "

So your contention then is that tunnel diodes, Gunn diodes and Zener diodes
are not active devices.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to classify them as such, but I am unable to think of the
justification.

If that is so, then a magnetron is also passive. It is technically a diode
with an indirectly heated cathode unless you consider the magnet an element.
Also, what of the case of a Hall effct device ? Nothing electronic controls
it, only a magnetic field. Other devices can have more than two terminals
aqnd be passive, so where does the Hall effect fit in there ?
Click to expand...

These devices can be active if we broaden the definition of "input", and
"energy" and so on beyond electronics. I already gave an example of automobile
power steering being active.

In the case of semiconductor diodes, we have photodiodes. (Actually any
silicon diode reacts to light, just isn't necessarily packaged for that use.)
The two ports of a photodiode can be configured to pass current from a power
supply. The light falling on the junction can be regarded as an input: a third
port which modulates the current. This is then "active": some energy delivery
is modulated in proportion to the light, and yet most of the energy is not
derived from that light.

Hall effect sensors and such can be conceived similarly.
 
"Jerry Peters"
Phil Allison

** I figured you were being facetious.

I was actually trying to get dave to *think*, but he doesn't seem to
be capable of it.
Click to expand...

** No fooling ?

It's much like the definition of a word, there can
be multiple, sometimes even contradictory meanings, and also
implications or overtones to a particular word choice.


But YOU failed to see the discussion is only about "electronic devices" .

Which relays are not.

If he gets to define what an active or passive device is *I* can
define what an "electronic" device is.

WHat about a magnetic amplifier?
Click to expand...

** Out of context again.

Device = single component here.

"Electronic component " is broad church too, it includes anything electronic
in nature that is intended to be used to create an electronic device.

Active devices do NOT have to be able to amplify signals - that IS what
most of them do but is not the defining issue.

BTW:

I see you are an incorrigible context shifter and a bullshit artist.

Fuck off.


.... Phil
 
<jurb6006@gmail.com>

?"But YOU failed to see the discussion is only about "electronic devices"
.

Which relays are not. "

Why,
Click to expand...

** Read the rest of that post - you over snipping maniac.

Then go drop fucking dead.
 
An active device provides signal amplification, or it uses amplification as
the basis of its operation. That has always been the definition.

Is digital circuitry active? I'd say yes. The ability to switch a tube or
transistor "on" depends on the device's ability to amplify its input to the
point it's driven into saturation. The amplification mechanism is exactly the
same as when the device amplifies a continuously varying signal.

How about controlled rectifiers? These are four-layer (sometimes more) devices
sometimes modeled as two transistors in a sort of "soixante neuf" arrangement,
a kind of flip-flop. Again, the same transistor amplification mechanism makes
them work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC

Magnetic amplifiers use a small current to control a larger one. They're (as
the British would say) "valves", just as tubes and transistors are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier
 
Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:
On 2014-01-28, jurb6006@gmail.com <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:
If a diode is not active, why ? You can modulate with it. You can switch with it. This can be done with solid state diodes or otherwise.

A diode is not active by itself, because it's a two-port circuit. There is no
way for it to have an input which controls an output.
Click to expand...

Switching diode which switches an AC signal with a DC signal. It's
been done for years.

PIN diode which can switch or attenuate an RF signal with a DC
current.

--snip--
 
William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
An active device provides signal amplification, or it uses amplification as
the basis of its operation. That has always been the definition.

Is digital circuitry active? I'd say yes. The ability to switch a tube or
transistor "on" depends on the device's ability to amplify its input to the
point it's driven into saturation. The amplification mechanism is exactly the
same as when the device amplifies a continuously varying signal.

How about controlled rectifiers? These are four-layer (sometimes more) devices
sometimes modeled as two transistors in a sort of "soixante neuf" arrangement,
a kind of flip-flop. Again, the same transistor amplification mechanism makes
them work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC

Magnetic amplifiers use a small current to control a larger one. They're (as
the British would say) "valves", just as tubes and transistors are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier
Click to expand...

I'd say amplification is a *sufficient* condition but not a necessary
one. A diode can be used as a switch, without amplifying, which I would
argue makes it an active device.
 
On 2014-01-29, William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
An active device provides signal amplification, or it uses amplification as
the basis of its operation. That has always been the definition.
Click to expand...

That is fine, but you have to remember that amplification includes unity gain
(and below).

> Is digital circuitry active? I'd say yes.

I would say that, as a category, no.

Counterexample:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_logic
 
On 01/29/2014 01:03 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:
On 2014-01-28, jurb6006@gmail.com <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:
If a diode is not active, why ? You can modulate with it. You can switch with it. This can be done with solid state diodes or otherwise.

A diode is not active by itself, because it's a two-port circuit. There is no
way for it to have an input which controls an output.

Switching diode which switches an AC signal with a DC signal. It's
been done for years.

PIN diode which can switch or attenuate an RF signal with a DC
current.

--snip--
Click to expand...

Pin diodes don't attenuate. They connect resistors.
 
"Jerry Peters" wrote in message news:lcbqi0$ke5$2@dont-email.me...

I'd say amplification is a *sufficient* condition but not a necessary
one. A diode can be used as a switch, without amplifying, which
I would argue makes it an active device.
Click to expand...

So then a light switch is an active device? Hello?

The remarks made here are classic examples of opening one's mouth and stating
whatever pops into one's head, without giving it the least bit of thought.

There's no point in discussing it further. If a device cannot amplify (in the
ordinary, common-sense meaning of the word), it is not an active device.
Otherwise, you could twist the definition so that any and every electronic
component was an active device.

Case closed.
 
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