A tale of a cheapo ink cartridge ...

>"Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace"

It's just about time to stop thinking that way. Many reasons. This rampant consumerism does nobody any good. That new printer, as cheap as it may be, makes a serious profit for the type of people who just love slave labor. OK, in China they rdive cars and have AC, they no longer live in grass huts and shit, fine, but the fact is they are using up resourcs to keep building new stuff.

And the what appens to the old stuff ? I think we know. So the bottom line, no matter how you slice, the US winds up being a fucking dumping ground. In the end, we end up with a bunch of junk that does't work, no jobs and no economy.

Whioch brings us to another impending fact. They are "creating" $80 billion a month for "quantitative easing" which is a ruse, propping up the stock market so people do not (wisely) pull out. That way in the NEXT crash, they get your money too, it is not just the bankers and big investors. And it has to crash. This is more then the military budget folks.

And when it happens, every thing that is imported, which means almost everything, is going to cost alot more.

That should be good for us folk who can fix things. Problem is that we would like to get paid and if nobody has any money they will do what people did in the old days when they didn't have money.

Without.

And then we will have the influx of the petrodollars as more and more countries get sick of them. BRICS has officially announced they are dumping dollars. China buys Iran's oil and pays for it in gold. They are also shying away from the dollar.

If may get to the point where you need a wheelbarrell full of money to buy a loaf of bread, and you know what happened last time.

The US' only choice will be to become a nation of warriors, taking from others even more than today. Every time a bomb drops or an M-16 fires or any of that shit, it is for MONEY. They tell you of the terrible plight of the downtrodden, or wepons of mass destruction, but I know what thy're doing. It's all money, and keeping the dollar propped up. Saddam switched to euros and all the suddn became a threat. Qadhaffi was initiating the introduction of a new currency - the African gold dinar backed by precious metal as opposed to the fiat US petrodollar. Half of the shit they do is persuant to keeping the world's oil businees on the dollar standard.

The jig is up. There is not enough military might to force the world to continue holding our greenbacks. Huge markets like India for example are ging to deal with the Russians. The Iranians are just about laughing at the sanctions, and the Russians are practivcally asking for more. Yes PLEASE hutrt our currency, we are a net exporter which means we can make MORE money. Let it drop for now, pay us more rubles. And then when your stupid asses fall face dowm we will have gained in the end.

Well they do think more than five minutes into the future.
 
On 2014-07-14, William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

> Toasters are generally junk.

Do they sell Dualit toasters in the USA?

--
Today is Setting Orange, the 49th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3180
"I do not believe in revealed religion — I will have nothing to do with your
immortality; we are miserable enough in this life, without speculating on
another." Lord Byron, 1778-1824, letter to Rev. Francis Hodgson, 1811
 
On 14/07/14 13:42, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jabba" wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf0ef7c27c98989c11@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?



depends on what you mean by 'inexpenbsive'

My HP colour laser is on its third set of cartridges and yes I have
spent more on cartridges than on the printer, but its still not a huge
amount.

Sub ÂŁ200 for a networked printer than can handle the whole household.




--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
 
On 14/07/14 14:07, Fredxxx wrote:
On 14/07/2014 13:42, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jabba" wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf0ef7c27c98989c11@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
+1 to all of that. Color laser for proof reading and letters.
Print shop for multiple copies or large prints.
Photo lab for color photos to be wall mounted ..



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
 
One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by
one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very
last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa

Vairy interesting;)..

One wonders if there was One naff cap, then what others are lurking?..

We have a HP Orifice jet K8600 and very good it is to even with the
carts refilled down the road and the only thing is if you let it run out
of paper it will then go into silly sods mode and pull through around 10
sheets at once and drag them out printing a bit on each but it does
after a while settle down.

Odd but..

Its networked which is fine for sharing and does A3 which we sometimes
need and does half decent pints on glossy paper

... All FWIW....
--
Tony Sayer
 
William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jabba" wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf0ef7c27c98989c11@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Yes, if you want photos and live in the US. Walgreens. Be interesting
to see if they bring that service to Boots in the UK now that they own it.
 
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian
People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael
 
In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1407141211260.27123@darkstar.example.org>,
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael

Never mind that .. did you find and Naked selfies;?...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28264446
--
Tony Sayer
 
On 14/07/14 17:25, Jethro_uk wrote:
The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.

Similar here. Got a laptop that was 'making a funny noise'

Had been dropped and CPU fan was rubbing..30 seconds to 'fix'



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
 
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 05:42:33 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"Jabba" wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf0ef7c27c98989c11@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Is $150 too much for your budget?
<http://www.brothermall.com/Printers/Model/HL3070CW/Refurbished#.U8QQLUC9Y0o>
Not the best color laser printer on the planet, but quite cheap.
Figure on about $70 for a set of 4 replacement clone carts on eBay, or
about $200 for brand new retail. The color carts are good for about
1400 pages:
$70 / 1400 = $0.05/page
(I refill my own color carts, which costs me about $32 to refill 4
carts).

A similar ink spraying printer might cost $30 for a set of carts, and
optimistically print 500 pages (usually less).
$30 / 500 = $0.06/page

In other words, the cost of ink/toner is slightly cheaper for the
color laser printer, if you use refilled and clone carts and toner.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 09:07:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

No, that's not why such printers get tossed. The problem is that they
cost more than they're worth to repair. I charge $75/hr for shop time
(which I'm told is on the low side). Most customers are not willing
to pay more than about 30% of the price of a new replacement to have
something fixed. Therefore, for a $150 retail printer, I can maybe
charge $50 before the customer will decline the repair. For specialty
items, sometimes they'll pay up to 60% of the replacement cost, but
that's rare. So, what can be done for $50 in labor? Very little.

If someone drags in an inkjet, it almost always requires some level of
cleaning. A laser can be cleaned with compressed air in a few
minutes. An inkjet requires disassembly and hand cleaning with a rag
and solvent that usually takes 60 to 90 minutes (and makes a mess). If
all that was wrong with your AOI inkjet printer, would you pay $75 to
$100 just to have it cleaned? Probably not.

So, the alternative is to just toss it. I pickup a few inkjet
printers for various nefarious purposes at the local recycler.
However, the return rate on inkjets has been so high, that they now go
directly into the dumpster.

Kodak tried to solve the problem by making an expensive inkjet
printer, that used cheap refillable carts. Basically, you pay up
front. It was basically a good idea, and should have worked. However,
they forgot that inkjets are inherently messy. It was a difficult
printer to disassemble and clean, and usually ended up at the
recycler. The few that still know how to operate a cleaning rag just
love them and plan to use them forever:
<http://www.pcworld.com/article/2011054/kodak-printers-are-gone-but-the-ink-sells-on.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
all here ! :)

Thanks. I learned something new.

Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:15:05 -0400, Michael Black wrote:

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with
someone's music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I
assumed, precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be
something wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed
it.

Is there a newer/better model.
I suppose so, but that generation iPod gives more storage than later ones.
And I see people selling them used, and still hoping to get some
significant money for them.

The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.
I always figure that so long as someone else is paying for the stuff new,
there's nothing wrong with me having a gadget habit. I didn't need a GPS,
but since I could buy one at a garage sale for five dollars, I might as
well.

Michael
 
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, tony sayer wrote:

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1407141211260.27123@darkstar.example.org>,
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael

Never mind that .. did you find and Naked selfies;?...

No, there were no photos or video on it. I did indeed check.

Michael
 
"Jabba" <Jabba@jobba.org.ku> wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf93e2fb6110989c12@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...
Arfa Daily scribbled...



Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
tell
all here ! :)


As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.

Well, hindsight is, as we all know, a wonderful thing. But be honest here,
would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :)

Arfa
 
"tony sayer" <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7gN9WoCOu+wTFwT1@bancom.co.uk...
One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one
by
one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the
very
last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
wire
bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to
read
them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
cartridge,
must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor
issues
the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa


Vairy interesting;)..

One wonders if there was One naff cap, then what others are lurking?..

I ESR'd all the rest, and they were all good ...

Arfa



Tony Sayer
 
William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote
Jeff Liebermann wrote

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.

I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive
government. And this is one of those case where it's needed.

No it is not.

There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise --
specifically, how long products should last. * This would do a
great deal to reduce waste and short-term "techno-churn".

No it would not. You're never going to stop very cheap junk being
bought by consumers now that ebay and amazon make it so easy.

> (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy consumer product.

I don't agree that they are a lousy consumer product. They
are in fact fantastically cheap, particularly when you arent
stupid enough to use the manufacturers' expensive ink.

The price of laser printers so low now that almost
anyone can afford one. I don't use them myself,
because I print so rarely that I just need something
dirt cheap and prefer the color for what I do print.

> Toasters are generally junk.

True, but I fix that by getting them at garage/yard sales for $2

> And let's not talk about shoe laces.)

I don't bother with laced shoes or boots.

The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers
me -- yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed.

And it wouldn't work anyway.

Businesses should care enough about quality to make
"sturdy" products without having to be forced to do so.

And they do with some stuff like cars and cutlery etc and
with the modern stainless steel stuff that has replaced the
older tin plate stuff that never lasted anything like as long.

And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing
got outsourced to China -- that they did so.

They still do.

> The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.

That is nothing like a solution. They would just be ignored.

* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied
merchantability requires products to be of average for their type.

That mangles the law.

> Of course, when every product in a category is junk,

That's never the case.

> the average sinks to a very low level.

I've just recently seen the junk problem with leather
belts, the sort you use to stop your pants falling down.
Plenty to buy for peanuts, but they were all composite
leather which never last long, the belt comes apart into
the components in less than a year or so. Just found
someone who still makes them out of sheets of well
tanned leather, the older traditional single piece of
leather. Not clear why the stuff from china is composite
leather, you'd think that that would cost more to make
even with the low labor costs in china etc.

I'm not convinced that govt regulation
could do anything about leather belts.
 
Jabba <Jabba@jobba.org.ku> wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
tell
all here ! :)

As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.

Easy to be wise after the event. You wouldn't normally expect it to
be the carts when the printer claims they have all gone bad at once.

Corse like with all faults like that, you kick yourself when you know what
the problem is.
 
William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

And even if you don't want color, they are still much cheaper
than any alternative if you don't print much but do print a bit.
 
Fredxxx <fredxx@nospam.com> wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.
 

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